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Most Tare weights are fairy tales. Some manufacturers quote tares with no fuel in the tanks, no water in the radiator, no oils in engine, gearbox, diffs, etc. Often these are the Tare weights that appear on rego papers. My papers say 2385 - but I have no idea what that includes. Of course you also have to add passenger's weights to the equation - and then add bull bar, drawers, .................................................. ..
That's surprisingQuote:
Originally Posted by bigguwesty
Not most, all. I know how it all works, well use 2 when I was working at a weighbridge 10 odd years ago. Was just curious 2 what their differences was.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillsGU
I forgot to mention - one of the local car dealers supplied a brand new Patrol. It weighed in at 2500. Tare weight from a specification sheet is 2478. This vehicle was not registered and it was trucked from the dealer so I don't know how much fuel was in it.
So just jumped on the weighbridge before and no surprises there she is not far off GVM.
2840kg without my self .
So 75kg, added, it comes up to 2915kg.
1520kg front
1320kg rear
That is with:
both tanks 98% full, bull bar, winch, roof rack and awning, cargo barrier. 33" tyres and steel rims x 5. Which is what the car rides around with 90% of the time.
165kg to play with. Add the missus and my so, fridge
So apparently / technically I'm already illegal by long shot, going by ADR's. lol It's ridiculous.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...id=67586&stc=1
Sorry to say Eric but your over your GVM. If yours is the same as mine, 3000kg. Or yours might be 3040kg being a factory TD42...You need to include 7 people at 80kegs each and two full tanks of fuel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge
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I know mate. It's shit. Which is exactly why I said:Quote:
Originally Posted by mudski
"technically I'm already illegal by long shot, going by ADR's. lol It's ridiculous."
No you don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudski
All it means is you can't carry 7 people and 2 full tanks because you have used some of your load carrying capacity up with accessories etc.
EG the 11 seater 70 series Troopies can't carry more than 4 to 7 adults unless we only fill one tank and take out some of our Emergency Response gear... our Rangers (that haven't had a GVM upgrade) cant carry a ton in the tray 5 people and tow our boats.
The only way to be over GVM is to physically be over GVM
Sooo if you weigh your car and know the starting weight (IE tare plus every thing bolted on etc) then you know how much payload you can have till GVM.
Hmmm. That's not what i was told.
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I know... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mudski
I didn't think some of the other things you were told by that mob were quite right either :clownredpuff:
I'm not saying I'm right and they are wrong (I am actually but I am being polite today, I can apologise tomorrow) as it may simply be a context or whatever but I would def get a second opinion (or more) :049:
I am pretty confident if you got pulled over by a Scaley and tipped the scales at 3000 Kg (if GVM is 3040) and had 3 spare seats you cannot be given a bluey for being 200 Kg over GVM
I am pretty confident on your confidence that you are right on this oneQuote:
Originally Posted by the evil twin
That's the problem ET. This is all so complicated and most people don't have a hope of understanding it all. Even some in the industry don't have a clue. It gets even more complicated when you tow - especially when you have to derate your GVM if you go over your nominal towball weight! For example - you could be towing a caravan and when you get weighed your vehicle could be within the GVM, your van could be within the ATM, your van and vehicle could be within the GCM, your axle weights could be under, your towball down weight could be OK - but you may still be booked because you did not allow for the derating of your GVM due to the towball weight exeeding the nominal weight.
Figure that out!
Yea I'm with you there..Quote:
Originally Posted by the evil twin
That's sorta like a empty truck..
It has the capacity to carry 60T in its trailer. But you don't fill it to the top do you..
I think there may be some confusion here. And "think" I know why.
ET is correct. Copper pulling someone over checking gvm isn't going to pretend there is a person sitting in each available seat.
What I think Mudski may have been told is because he's getting it engineered , so that way they have to simulate a person in each seat for brake test or whatever ...
My theory.
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Talking to a vanning mate the other night, he thought I was blowing wind up his freckle when I told him that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillsGU
He is about to get a bigger van and said he couldn't put everything in the van he wanted so would load the extra in the tow vehicle. He doesn't believe me about that de-rating you posted.
I like your theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge
I think a lot of the misunderstandings are confusion arising from context.
My 19 ft van comes in at 3t , has a modified gvm up grade , with 140 kg ball weight , this allows me to carry extra water , fuel , tools etc in the van and not in the car , but does still not allow me to add any 1 of these , draws , long range tanks or rear bar or water to the car without going over , all we have in the car is the 4 of us and the 40lt engel ,Quote:
Originally Posted by macca
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Here is the table for a new Patrol:
Towball download Vehicle Mass
200kgs GVM (all models)
250kgs Reduce loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 150kgs
300kgs Reduce loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 220kgs
350kgs Reduce loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 290kgs
As you can see - the more the towball weight the lower your actual GVM is - PLUS - the towball weight is ALSO added to the total vehicle weight (the GVM).
Confused yet?
In "theory" your towball weight is a bit low. For proper stabillity you usually should have around 10% of the towed weight on the towball.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaddy
Yup. I have rung so many engineers lately its not funny. And pretty much every engineer has told me something different. I suppose its the way they interpret the rules to how they do their work. One even told me a 2inch lift needed to be engineered, and he then said, I guarantee it will fail. Lol. When I get some time I want to scour the ADR VSB14 again to find out more info.Quote:
Originally Posted by the evil twin
I have found exactly the same with people I have asked.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudski
The only person I have spoken to that makes any sense, is consistant and when I look up what he has told me (among the confusing mess of rules and regulations) actually makes sense is Paul at Statewide 4X4. That is why I am trusting him to do my GVM upgrade. I'll let you know the results next week.
In " theory " but only being 19ft , on tandem simplicity offroad suspension, it sits and tracks very solid behind the car , and has no need for sway or load leveling bars, it actually tows better then my old jayco swan , and jayco 16ft single axle poptop, the previous owner spent a lot of time and money on getting it right , and conviently he towed with the same set up gu 4.2tdi that i doQuote:
Originally Posted by BillsGU
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This here is a very good read.
http://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/payload-gvm-need-know/
And also if you read the full issue, there is trailer download reductions explained. Not a bad read.
http://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/issue023/#21
Yep - it's good that a van "tows well" and you "don't even know it's there" and such, but it's when things go wrong that you need to ensure that your vehicle and van / trailer are well prepared. For instance under emergency braking or on wet slippery roads. That's when weights, brake set up, etc becomes critical.
As far as load levelers or sway bars are concerned, they are really named incorrectly and most people don't understand exactly what they do and how they do it. Yes they do level the load and they do help in keeping the towed vehicle from swaying - but they do this by transfering the load off the towball to in front of the rear axle.
If - for instance - you weiged your vehicle and trailer and calculated the ball weight with and without bars attached - you would find your ball weight is actually less with the bars. It is because this transfer of weight to in front of the rear axle that you get the advantage of stability and the fact that you are transfering weight closer to the front axle that you are getting a levelling effect.
IMHO bars are like an insurance policy, you may never actually need the advantage they produce - but it's certainly nice to have them when the processed food hits the fan.