None that I can see without change on their part,Quote:
Originally Posted by AB
Considering I think we have more members than most clubs maybe they should be joining us!
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None that I can see without change on their part,Quote:
Originally Posted by AB
Considering I think we have more members than most clubs maybe they should be joining us!
That's not how it was put to me.
I was told that they would offer the members here the same insurance coverage and permit access as paid up association members.
I thought it was worthwhile pursuing as part of a user subscription to here no skin off my nose if you don't think it's worth it, just giving you the option.
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Actually I think it would be worthwhile as an organization to be part of the association and have rep's at 4wd VIC meetings like the clubs do.
I can't see the insurance side of it working etc unless we were a club
I believe the insurance is connected to the individual in this case. I'll ask him again.
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Would be interesting to ask how the insurance would work and if I would be protected on a np. Com tripQuote:
Originally Posted by Drewboyaus
ive had a sit down with the board of 4wd vic along with a few mates (one being a fairly well known 4wd personality) last year discussing the associate member thing along with becoming a club, we were more or less told that being an associate member gets you stuff all as you have a 0% chance of getting approved to travel mvo tracks. basically got told there only intrested in working with clubs and not the average 4 wheel driver.
Forum membership generally does not get the respect it deserves especially from the old school, they miss the fact that we have are large enough to potentially have a bigger political clout quicker than anything the association could wish to have.
Most club members are surprised to learn the country wide participation in trips we have at np. Com
I think the attitude and culture of this forum is far different to your standard forum though so can probably understand why...Quote:
Originally Posted by liftlid
I don't have experience with other forums, can you explain where this one is different?Quote:
Originally Posted by relyimah
Insurance on a NP trip is up to the individual. Public Liability is a very grey areaQuote:
Originally Posted by liftlid
In my experience, the others don't have the same level of involvement and comradery that this one does. Think AB (and everyone else involved) does a fantastic job of making this a "group" rather than a forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by liftlid
Doesn't seem to be so many cowboys and a$$holes on this one :)
Every other forum I've ever seen is full of tossers that do nothing but hang shit on each other's cars, they are just a big boys club and if you're not one of the boys then good luck to you... lolQuote:
Originally Posted by liftlid
This forum is just full of good blokes!
I'm on a dive forum and it's like a battlefield at times, lots of bitching between the states, shore vs boat, PADI vs SSI etc. Gets to the point you don't want to make a comment or ask a question as you'll probably get hammered, or someones response will get hammered.Quote:
Originally Posted by liftlid
I made the mistake of mentioning that it was no longer welcoming to new divers and didn't reflect well to visitors and even that got heated between different parties.
Also on a couple of caravan/camping forums and get much the same, lot's of know alls etc.
This forum is by the the friendliest and respectful I've been on, and very happy about that. Glad to be a member!
I watched a group of guys drive out one of the most helpful members on one of the other forums, and then hang shit on every newcomers posts, and that has only happened here on rare occasions ....
I think it is not only a great bunch, a great culture starting off ( welcoming courtesy ), and a good bunch of moderators .....
The members of this forum who understand the politics of 4x4 vic keep chipping away at the edges
this forum np.com could steam roll those old farts and have more clout than they the other ppl would ever imagine we are growing daily and all have one thing in common to enjoy our bush and tracks and be responsible 4x4 owners our meets are getting bigger and better each year and lots of freindships are being forged
its only a matter of time may the force be with you
Hmmmm, got me stumped!Quote:
Originally Posted by happygu
.....on the move
Thanks to everybody's for their positive response's to my question.
Makes me glad that I've joined you guys.
Hi bobQuote:
Originally Posted by Bob
The question of association insurance covering np.com trips was more in the context of the 4wd association offering associate membership that individual np.com members could take up and one of the benefits mentioned was "insurance coverage" before any decisions are made I was hoping to clarify the grey areas.
Let's say I am in a proper 4WD club associated with 4WD Vic, and I go on a club trip, what sort of insurance is it?
If I roll my car do they pay me out? Or is it more if I hurt myself they cover the bill? Just curious.
Winnie,Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie
Here is the extract from their website:
The principal covers arranged for FWDV are:
Combined Public and Products Liability Insurance
Personal Accident
Association Liability.
It doesn't cover your own vehicle, as you are expected to have your own insurance....
It does seem to cover Personal Accident and Incident....
The main benefit as far as I can see, is the fact that if I organize a trip and invite others along, and something untoward happens to someone in the party, I cannot lose everything I own from being sued by the other parties....
Mic
Winnie,
Here is the full document for you...
http://www.fwdvictoria.org.au/upload...20Overview.pdf
You can organize Full Comprehensive Motor Insurance with them too, and a portion goes to the Association....
its just public liability as far as I'm aware, doen't cover the cost of damage to your car. Don't really understand myself because as a club, they have to pay insurance . Don't know the reasons for having to pay the Association................. if someone knows more then chime up and fill us in, not mentioning any names Evil Twin ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie
Maybe im to old fashioned but having a read of the above insurance doco seems like they want to own you as well if you want to have a fun day and it doesnt suit them, no go, if we wanted to go back to kris,s i doubt if that would be covered either as said its a very grey area, so now who takes up the challange you could find out by ringing this mob and see what could be done for any one interested in going down this path thruogh np
but if a the disclaimer is posted along with a trip notice e. O. I and every one understands that ifyou go on the trip its at your own risk every assistance in rcovery would be availible on the day
... here I was having a snooze and Clunk goes and wakes me up
The Club insurance is all public liability orientated and when incorporated the ability to sue individuals for damages are limited.
As prev posted by others your vehicle etc is your problem.
The insurance is there so if your on a Club run, hypothetically, your using a chainsaw and slip and chop the agates of a prize bull or damage their property or are fishing at the nudie beach and hook an appendage then they are covered (well, except the patrons) and then they and you aren't left with no house.
Given how cheap it is (ours is about $15 per member per year for 20 mill cover which insures a lot of Bull sperms or many K's of fence) and the fact you cannot get into a lot of venues or carry out activities without the cover it is easily worth every cent IMHO
Insurance may well be important when on a organised club run, what we were trying to define is exactly what benefits of membership the 4wd association where offering with the suggestion of us becoming associate members and if we would even be covered by their insurance?
On my reading of the 4wd association rules, the rules would need to change before we would be covered.
A quick update from my end......
Have been out of the office on the road all week so haven't had the opportunity to chase the insurance issue up. Will do so next week.
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Hiya CobberQuote:
Originally Posted by liftlid
You are correct.. the question (and my response) from Winnie and Clunk was about Club Runs
Further to the overall discussion...
I saw some comments by some posters about politics earlier and didn't respond but if your peak bodies (ANFWDC, WA4WDA etc) aren't 100% political then they aren't fulfilling their function.
It is the same for anything EG the AFL, CAMS, etc etc albeit if professional sports are involved there is also a regulatory function.
The peak body of an interest group is a force multiplier as it is a representation of the views of the masses IE if everyone individually wants to approach the Minister of Long Drop Dunnies because 10,000 4WD enthusiasts think they aren't deep enough or TCIS for insurance discounts it just won't happen.
You have to have a manageable number of represtatives and proof of whom you represent.
That is acheived by affiliation with an entity of legal standing membership of which has both benefits and responsibilities.
Soooo...
An individual joins a group of like minded people, lets say the Upper Kumbuctta West Patrol Club.
He doesn't join the Cletus Valley Cruiser Club 'cause it is too far away or they drive shit cars or one of their members backed over his Cat.
But... the members of both Clubs would really like to use deeper long drops so they affiliate to form a regional association.
They already know a meeting of everyone is superfluous and there is no point in everyone being individual members of a peak body as all they need is a representative or two.
When the regional body finds that there are other Associations with similar views the process continues again to whatever level is necessary.
Exec Summary...
Why would an individual want to be a full member of a peak political body and why would the body want individuals?
If you end up with 10,000 individual members you are back where you started and still have shallow long drops 'cause the Minister won't speak to you all
If you want to play AFL you join Geelong, Port, Freo or Collingwood not the AFL... uummm forget Collingwood actually everyone hates them
Sooo why not join the appropriate affiliate?
If you don't like the affiliate how can you assimilate into the peak body who represents their views or goals?
If you want the advantages the affiliates have gained by establishing codes, training minima, rules (as much as they may suck) or access relationships what makes you as an individual so special?
Disclaimer - not having a shot at anyone and written in a light hearted vein which sometimes may not come across as intended when read
We still need to answer the original questions of the recent posts which may have hijacked the thread slightly due them discussing np.com joining the Vic 4wd association and not np.com members joining a local 4x4 clubQuote:
Originally Posted by the evil twin
What original questions?Quote:
Originally Posted by liftlid
Vic 4wd association associate member offer to np.com members that they madeQuote:
Originally Posted by Clunk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clunk
My bad... I was still on the original points about Club memberships/politics, the Vic Nissan Club and access to their facility.Quote:
Originally Posted by liftlid
I spose there are kinda two very distinct and seperate subjects in this thread now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by liftlid
ahhh yes that one...... lost track of it among the other bits
I've got no idea...... not that that should surprise anyone