Lucky I know a good Mechanical Engineer @PeeBee you'll have it properly installed for me Phil in no time at all :-) I'd better finish off installing my oil coolers first before even contemplating this even wackier idea me thinks ;-)
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Lucky I know a good Mechanical Engineer @PeeBee you'll have it properly installed for me Phil in no time at all :-) I'd better finish off installing my oil coolers first before even contemplating this even wackier idea me thinks ;-)
More than happy to assist, but be aware that any job I take on with a projected timeframe needs to be multiplied by 3, so 5hrs = 15. This accounts for the talking, stupid decisions, rework, scrapping and starting again, soul searching and then getting it sorted in the final 15 minutes.
Sounds great Phil :-) Actually spent some time just now trying to nut out the possibilities and I reckon it's not too bad. The heads on these donks have 2 x spare mounting holes either end, front/back. The custom PS pump mount is currently using the 2 x front ones but bolts could be removed and longer installed. I'm thinking along the lines of a 50mm x 8mm plate bolted each end with an 8mm plate bridge system over the rocker for dropping the alternator on top of maybe?
If you can keep the bearings, jack shaft and alternator in the same place then use the existing pulley drive/take-up this is the way to go. I am tipping you will only have a single belt to drive the alternator? If so also need to consider the greatest belt wrap you can achieve, as a guide around 120 deg should suffice - less and he belts could squeal and slip. I don't like the belt take-up on my conversion as it is very difficult to adjust and only relies on the friction clamp of a single bolt to maintain the belt tension - maybe yours is different?Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
Great advice mate, looks like it can achieve the 120 no probs. My existing alternator must be same as yours barely 90 :-(
Mine is 110amp, but will wait to see how long this one lasts. I see there is a 170a nissan patrol alternator with pump on ebay for $490, so will wait and see. Upgrading the standard unit above what i have now isn't warranted, but food for thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
When you get time mate any chance of finding that 170a link for us. I've sized up GQ alts with rear vac pump we need and they would fit the existing brackets but was told even the 125a one had ceased production:-(Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/142374269...%3AMEBIDX%3AITQuote:
Originally Posted by MB
Ok then, wow, thanks Phil!
"Back in stock" it says, do you reckon they are refurbished pimped up/stretched things? We have to be careful of the vacuum pump hitting the intake manifold on the chev's too mate.
Says brand new. Send them a question about dimensions. I dont know how they compare with the BD supplied unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
If they are the same length, getting hold of winnies unit or perhaps any of the TD42 alternator/pumps should tell you if it will fit. Going off your shots previously you seem to have a fair bit of roomQuote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
Might still have to take @Winnie up on his kind offer to borrow his old one for mock up fitting tests. When my truck was up at Millweld we held an old rusty one over the top and found the mounts pictured below were same.http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2017/05/91.jpg The issue appears to be the vac pump pictured below being very close to cylinder #1 intake manifold as from memory the Nissan one looked closer than the existing Mitsubishi in now. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2017/05/92.jpg
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No worries mate. I need to come up your way at some stage to grab some doors off Rossco, I'll let you know when I'll be around
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Legend, thanks Chrisso!
Hey markie, I've got my old standard alternator in the shed. If it's any help it's yours.
That alternator looks like an absolute beast BTW . .
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Cheers Rossco, is it a GQ TD42 with vac pump rear mounted mate?
Yep that the one. .
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Are you still thinking of the 170a unit as an aux. or replacement? If replacement then cable size and maybe the front mount plates might be all you need to play with - BD absolutely dont use the nissan unit, they told me that and I think its a mistake to be honest. This upgraded unit has capacity upgrades in amps and vac, so win win. The monster one is a beauty and certainly will benefit when winching.
Yep, replacement mate. Then look at an aux down the track as backup. Reckon even the 170a will be working hard with 6hp motor + twin 19a thermos + lights etc.... 170a is a lot to ask of a TD42 alt :-)
I bought a Uniwelder many years ago and it was rated at 200a 100% duty cycle as it was powering a welder as well as the vehicle alternator. i was told that automotive alternators are duty rated at max amps for corca 5%, so its understandable why they struggle under the load of a winch. The 200a unit I have is 100% duty rated for just that reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
Some good news, just picked up Rossco's old alt and I'm 99.99% hopeful after measuring it will fit, bolt out, bolt in :-) http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2017/05/93.jpgHole measurements spacings are identical http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2017/05/94.jpg The only difference looks like the GQTD42 alt vac pump protudes a further 15mm max.http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2017/05/95.jpg
Thanks for the 170a ebay link Phil, I'm biting the bullet and maxing the M/C now ;-)
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Excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
Hmmmmmmm... Says the item has ended 'unsold' and the seller only has 2 x second hand cars in their 'other' items :-( Maybe a 170a GQTD42 alt was too good to be true! Sent seller a message, fingers crossed for a response some day.
Have you tried patrolapart @MB thats where I got my replacement alternator for me ute, granted I'm only running a 4.2Ti
Sure have mate :-) It was 'Shorty' on the counter that said the 125a had ceased production and highest available now was something like 110a I think. My truck needs double that in theory!
Just found another link on the Delco Remy 38SI 'new release' (a Borg Warner Company) has several videos within the link, super impressive alternators! http://delco.remy.bitwisesolutions.c...el-Family/38SI
Mark, the item has ended because the auction period expired. He has relisted the alternator, have another look.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
Ok great, so it is, thanks Phil! Quite brief 'Item description' says 'guaranteed' so I guess if it doesn't pull a true 170a should be returnable even though the advert says 'no returns'? I'm not too savy on electrics mate, do you reckon it's even possible to squeeze 170a out of an alt that size mate?
You need to send the guy a question on the 'duty cycle rating' as this is important if you are after a power source to satisfy your demand. Your demand in all likelihood is going to typically be topping up of the battery after starting on a daily basis. Any alternator will handle that. Your 36a draw for the fans is probably getting up close to what the manufacturer would be happy with on a constant basis for a 90a unit also.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
Your focus is on the extreme end of the scale where you have sustained draw at high current. So, I have no doubt this alternator could supply 170a but the question is for how long? If you are sitting on the side of a hill and have to winch for 45 minutes with breaks in between, you might find this is adequate. It will get hot, and its performance will taper off to a degree. The next thing you then need to consider is the battery you are using and if it can take the sustained draw down and then boost charge over an extended period - it will also get hot. Will your battery isolation system handle 170a also, as this could be another issue. I have for this reason got the 200a unit hooked up directly to the 1200cca/200A/h battery without intermediate control. The smaller 110a unit goes int the CTEK controllers and the batteries get up to an 80a boost charge and then a 20a staged charge.
The advert is pitched at high amp users such as in comp trucks, but maybe see if you can find out what the comp truck guys do, especially the winch challenges - this is perhaps a more relevant starting point, especially with the outlay, and you want to be happy with the result. I can't find where I bought my 200a unit unfortunately but it was from the USA.
Sorry, as usual a bit long winded, but you need to consider the system as well. Is there a comp truck guy within the forum who can advise on what they have used to set up for this duty?
Comp truck guys all run 24V systems, so theoretically half the current draw but realistically are winching for only about 30 second at a time. I couldn't see you winching for more than a few minutes at a time either Mark and with short breaks in between as well. Can't think of a time I have winched for more than 10 minutes at a time, with breaks to re run the winch rope.
Their lifespan on their batteries is quite short though and might have to replace them every few race meets.
Keep in mind these guys are running at least 2x 6hp motors at 24V, electric thermo fans etc... as well.
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There are differing vac pumps for those alternators. There are ones available that are the same length as the one you have. I can still get 125a alternators so maybe its just patrolaparts supplier.
As for higher current alternators you could look at a 24v item which could produce 200A. Hook your batteries up in series so the alternator can supply the charge to the batteries. Then only come off one of the batteries so the rest of the car can run off 12v. There is a little more to this sort of setup but it opens up a lot more options for alternator output options.
Thankyou gents for your input, truly awesome and seriously appreciated:-)!! Darren @MudRunnerTD had kindly also mentioned 24V systems some years back when this adventure started and I didn't quite absorb his knowledge given then but making more sense now for sure. Cheers to all, learning is gooda for me :-)
Hi Mark,
I had a read back trying to figure out if the dual Alternator was a Chev thing or not? trying to figure your need. It appears your just looking for it for supporting the winch is that right? as the Chev Alternator is supplying enough for your engine?
This is a No Brainer, especially as you have a tray back. I would be 24v-ing the hell out of that! You have plenty of room to store 2 batteries under the rear tray for your 24v setup, your committed to a second alternator so 24v all the way. Your fridge will take 24v as will your LED Light bars if you want it.
Your Winch will just love it. its a whole other level. I can't agree with Winnie about battery life though to be honest, a good 24v system will last as long as any 12v system and there should be Zero detriment to the storage batteries in this scenario. Im not aware of any Race cars that are swapping out their batteries after a couple of events unless they have cooked them or the Rich guys at the pointy end just because new is good. Buy a pair of New batteries for your 24v system though and make sure they are the same. make sure you fit an isolation switch with at least 600 continuous Amp rating and you should mount that in the cab within reach of the driver. I have a mate that runs cheapish Bond batteries under his tray running 24v and has competed in 2 Outback and 4 Cliffhangers at least. Plus heaps of club stuff in between.
Note also your Winch Motor Ishka is not like a normal 12v motor and has the capacity to take ALOT of power unlike the Warn motors. They have a completely different winding system and are designed for a static industrial application. Given this they don't tend to burn out the windings like a 6hp Warn. Tough. The Ishka motor was an accident. a guy a few years ago had a Pallet of them sitting around and he couldn't move them. He noticed that they had the same spline as the Warn 6hp so listed them for $130 each on a Comp page with no promises "Good for spares. Guys bought 3 or 4 each. I was strapped and did not buy any damn it!! Well bugger me if they are not Bloody Awesome and are rated far better than a Warn and hold their own in the Comp Trucks. Unfortunately when the Dump supply was gone the restock was way more expensive but still cheaper than Warn. Will be my next motor for sure.
Only advice i can give for running 24v through your 12v motors is Avoid Reverse Winching (Winch Out) as this will kill the motors quickly, especially the Warn. You have an Air Freespool for that reason so happy days.
24v ALL DAY
Click on the link below and scroll down to the BlueSea 3001 HD Isolation Switch.
http://www.12volt.com.au/General%20H....html#hdseries
Darren, I had a Blue Seas isolation switch and it sequentially failed at the studs to wiper face ( meaning the 2 out of 3 cable studs physically cracked and broke the circuit, so no charge path). It didn't do a heap of high current work, maybe an abnormal outcome or fatigue - unsure ? When I do this again I am probably going the path of fuse blocks, rated for the max current supply - what are your thoughts on this for high amp isolation devices?Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD
interesting, did you contact Bluesea for warranty? That switch is a minimum requirement for all Competitors vehicles in all forms of winch truck racing in Australia. Must be full rated Isolation within reach of the Driver and Passenger. Most guys run that switch. thats how i found it. This is the switch i have to go into my GQ. it looks like good kit, i can only assume yours suffered fatigue but id be contacting Bluesea for sure!Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
Switch would have been there for at least 10 yrs so am sure its not a warranty item. I might make a call anyway and see what they could offer or perhaps put the finger on the reason for failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD
Thanks Darren, great info mate and appreciate the link too, Cheers! The Mitsubishi Pajero alternator used on the 6.5NA conversion barely ran the entire car since I installed the twin thermo setup and have always found it drop below 13.2V which disconnected the Redarc link to my aux fridge battery. I've worked this alternator so hard its now nearly dead so just bought the 170a GQ Ebay one to install this weekend to keep rolling. I'll start researching 24V aux alternators as my plan was to always install a 3rd&4th set of Optimas behind the rear Superior tower brace for running my rear winch too. I do like the idea of lights, fridge, gadgets running on 24V too, could open up some shopping at the truck stores :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD
Your Spal Fans will likely run on 24v too mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
They're actually Davies Craig's 12Vers unfortunately Daz, when I had all the dramas years back the SPAL's were the ones I was going to change over to but the boys at Davies Craig came to the party and sorted it all out very well with good replacements FOC :-)