Nice one Phil. Take a spare air bag or two on the trip mate.
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Nice one Phil. Take a spare air bag or two on the trip mate.
I have the Kevlar baged airbag man units, running at around the 40psi mark to trim to level. The bags deflated have about 10mm between the extended bump stops. I think IQuote:
Originally Posted by mudski
will be fine. Mounted and hooked up the Lightforce camping lights, just waiting for the 6 gang switch panel, then I am essentially done. Keen to break the rear down and start the trial packing.
Going through the build top to bottom and couldn't help laughing my ass off this comment LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD
And jesus mate! I thought big ol'diesels took two maybe three wires to run!
True, but its the 21st century in Australia, maybe Brazil isn't quite there yet, and we like to have a little bit more comfort than a milkcrate balanced between a couple of wooden planks and a big rock tied to a rope for a brake! My wiring concepts have let more smoke out than an Amazon wildfire at times, but now with lower frequency. The simplicity is a challenge from a security perspective as you are correct, power to the injection solenoid and the starter circuit and the motor runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrazilianY60
Tell me about smoke... its crazy these days...
So all the wiring is for other stuff than the motor? Ok then. Sky is the limit in that situation. I was under the impression those were all stuff you needed to put together to make it run.
Cracking at the rock tied to a rope! That is LC territory mate!
Cheers and keep us all updated.
Shes looking good Philstar, do like those steps, very vice. . . Madigan should be awesome certainly deserve to enjoy the thing it's been a slog but will be worth it. . Looking forward to hearing how it all goes plenty of pics please [emoji106][emoji106]. . .
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Broke away from the lunatic brigade this arvo and finished the wiring of the camp lights. Installed Lightforce ultra wide LED units at the rear and a pair pointing forward above the windscreen. I used a pair of ultra flood bars circa 300mm pointing sideways , mounted under the alum roofrack. Waiting for it to get dark so I can see the outcome. Installation came up well with the switch bank, mounted per the Vic regs in a location not accessible from the drivers seat - so its all inside the pod.Attachment 88266Attachment 88265
Little bit more done today, pulled the rear seats out and replaced with the two tilt seat platforms. Started playing around with storage configurations, and the opportunities are huge! I am not keen on diesel cans inside the vehicle however it does shift the load distribution between the wheels as opposed to having close to 200L behind the wheels in the pod. I will be carrying 250L which is based on a conservative 30L/100KLM. I think its going to be more like 20-22 than this, and this is just a safeguard position. 150 in the underfloor tank and 5 jerries. Getting real now, down to the last coule of tasks then onto the road to get some run kilometers under my belt.Attachment 88277Attachment 88276Attachment 88278Attachment 88279Attachment 88280Attachment 88281
This setup is apocalyptic. I love it. Have a good trip with the rig shakedown @PeeBee [emoji106]
With all this effort, you've well and truly earned it!!
Another full day, dont know where the hours actually go in all honesty. Bolted the hard tow bars and Max trax to the roofrack, simple task just took hours. Wired up 4 cig lighter/usb points inside the car and rear pod, re-ran a heavier cable to the lift pump, achieved another 2psi at idle, which will mean the preload pressure band will sit at 10psi WOT - runs well at that position.
Heading tomorrow for short blast to see if anything catches fire, rattles or falls off!
Looks like the wet interior remains a hassle for Simpson/Madigan line, Adria Station section appears damaged and we may not get access, possibly divert south down Hay River track to Poeppel's and then Birdsville or head north and reach Boulia, then down to Birdsville, across to immaminka and the Flinders/Gammon on way home, not a race, 4 weeks planned - the mine is not that happy but first break in 4 yrs, they should rethink their reaction.Attachment 88282
Got the barge out of the garage finally today, few stats. Dis a 200klm run, highway mostly, few dirt roads.
Carter Black Lift pump 10psi all day measured pre the injection pump
Fuel consumption 17L/100 @100kphr, 19L/100 @110kph
Rpm at 100kphr 1650, @110, 1800
Oil pressure cruising 20psi
Air in temp 21degC, air out post i/c 75degC
Diesel fuel temp 25degC
EGT's cruising 280, never over 400DegC
Lost a pass side window wind deflector, bumped the thing yesterday and broke the seal, so wind tore it off as punishment.
No rattles or smoke anywhere, drove really well. Need some more miles and a weekend away to sort the packing, getting there.
I hope those jerrys have a good seal on them. Having a diesel smell in the cab will be sickening. Even spilling a small amount on the outside of the can will be enough to make one ill from the smell it will give off. I'd be taking some baby wipes or something to give them a good wipe down.
Its good to see all is going well so far too.
Thanks Mark, yes its a problem potentially, they may end up in the pod, where they will fit, just trying to get the weight over the top or in front of the rear wheels. I could put them on the roof, but again another couple of issues generated. Finally I can see the results, yesterdays run whilst only 200klm was enough time to settle anything down and find what is going to catch fire. The rear springs are perhaps my lingering issue, need to roll the car over my caravan scales and see what is sitting over the rear axle first. I have a stiffener channel already fabricated for the rear diff housing that will actually work, so might have to weld that in place as a security measure.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudski
Is there anywhere that sells replacement jerry can seals that you know of? I may just head to Clarke rubber and make a few instead if I cant buy direct - good pick up
Never mind, bought 3 packs of 5 seals from 3 different vendors to ensure they get here on time, $3 each, happy days
If they don't arrive in time, maybe those sheets of cork for gaskets, from supacheap might suffice.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
They also sell the seals - but $14 for a 3 pack is a bit stiff, but cheap enough if you need them in a hurry.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudnut
I bought 3 packs of 5 from 3 vendors, first set arrived today, have a few spares now, fitted them this arvo, good quality fit and nice and fat for a good seal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brissieboy
Maybe fill the cans and do a test run Phil before venturing off? Just to be sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
OK, went out today to put some more miles on the build before the Madigan trip, and encountered what appears to be a repeated issue with the rear wheels on the GQ and GU, especially with alloy wheels.
I entered a round about at 50khr and the drivers side rear just decided to leave the chat, no warning, just fell off. I managed to pull the car mostly off the road but not before destroying a brand new disk from the Willwood Brake upgrade. Rang @MB for some assistance and he dropped everything and came across, but in the end the solution was to replace the studs and get it back on the road to see if it needed a flatbed trip or could drive home. Luckily it all came apart and went back together and drives fine, even with the flat edge on the disk. I rang Castlemaine Rod Shop ad was able to buy just a single disk which I will have monday. Could have been a lot worse, mangled the new tray guard but didnt affect the capliper which would be a pricey item.
So, were the nuts tight or too tight and over stressed the studs, was the damage to the studs done when the new studs were added to the new disks, who knows. What I can say with some certainty is the nuts dont look like they were loose as I have seen this before and typically the rim holes get elongated and mangled - the rim stud holes are perfectly untouched. Also all studs exploded at the same time, and I picked them up from the roundabout all within a 3 m circle. I did however do a complete check of the pass side nuts and 3 were not tight, but they were still firm.
Right now the jury is out. I did have the rear wheels off recently when playing with the springs and airbgs, so maybe they were nt tightened correctly or they were buggered from over tensioning and just waiting to fail. One thing is for sure, no more rattle guns, just torque wrench and I think perhaps locktite on the thread as well, although the failure point on all 6 studs is identical, right at the start of the threaded portion of the stud, identical.Attachment 88306Attachment 88305Attachment 88307Attachment 88308Attachment 88309
SO CHECK YA NUTS.
This is the way I was taught when I got my first car:
After the wheels have been off, always mount the rim on the studs and start the nuts manually.
If using a rattle gun, only use it to do the nuts up loosely. Wriggle the wheel as you seat the nuts by hand.
Use a torque wrench set to 90 ftlbs (for the Patrol, or to vehicle spec.)
Tighten the nuts in a star pattern.
Drive vehicle a couple of ks then check the nuts again.
I also do that last step after a mechanic or tyre shop has taken the wheels off.
It is tedious, I know, but I haven't lost a single wheel, in 40 years on the road. Touch wood.
I have had a cheap Chinese rim come loose ass the steel was very soft. The dealer I bought the car from had fitted the piece of crap as a spare.
Jeez Phil, super glad you got out of that relatively lightly.
What seat-type nuts are you using on the alloys? Use the tapered nuts on steel rims, and flat seat nuts on the alloys.
100 ft/lb torque.
Attachment 88312
Pretty sure the taper units. The factory rims are set up or have a taper I think, will have a look tomorrow. Either way I need a guaranteed solution. I will make contact with Nissan and PAP on monday to get some answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
Thing is the studs snapped, the nuts were not loose, I went back to the roundabout and picked them up, all studs broke at the same point and with no damage to the rim.
Thinking out loud here. Are those studs genuine Nissan or aftermarket? If they’re aftermarket they may not be up to the shear force applied by your loaded pod? Dunno if there are different load ratings for studs? The fact they all failed at once says to me that as soon as the first one went, the rest couldn’t bear the additional shear force applied to them?
Were the studs high tensile or mild steel? I have absolutely no idea if they’re available in both forms, but my understanding (and I may be wrong please correct me if you know) is that high tensile fasteners are only stronger in tension, not shear. Mild steel better in shear. More plastic, less brittle.
The studs are all nissan genuine. You are right the higher tensile bolts dont offer anything in shear that helps. I am thinking the bolts may have been installed with a rattle gun and stretched past their elastic limit when they were installed into the rear axle hub. The reason being the studs were replaced all the way around when the new discs went on. I am sure of this because the front studs are from a GU Patrol to suit the Willwoods, so i had the rears replaced as well with the standard rears Nissan studs. All this is guessing. Tomorrow i am going to put the rear axle over the scales and see what load its running at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
I am going to be asking PAP the same questions around the availability of more ductile higher shear studs tomorrow, plus about the nuts for the factury GU4 alloys. If I cany get a satisfactory answer I might change the all terrain tires over to steel rims for the Madigan.
Mate, personally I would change over to steelies, but that’s just my preference. Pros and cons for each. Steelies = higher unsprung weight but more malleable and forgiving when out the back of nowhere. At low outback speeds the higher unsprung weight is worth it IMO only.
Edit: At low outback speeds there’s not much chance of an alloy splitting up either. I might just have an old mindset there.
Probably wouldn’t run alloys in the Baja 1000 though. There, I feel better now. :D
The Nissan Factory alloys are very sturdy, unlike the massive range of look good street crawler alloy rims or rims developed well before computer FEA was avail. I dont have any concerns about the structural integrity of the factory alloys, however the weight is a valid comment. Do you have a brand or style you know of that are well made? @MB, whats your spin on this - I know you dont like alloys, but what is the brand of steely's you use?Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
Genuine Nissan GU steelies. You’ll find them cheap 2nd hand online.
Attachment 88313
ROH Trak 2 Steelies are the best in my opinion Phil. I've seen pics of the cheaper Chyna made steelies literally falling apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
Spoke with PAP this morning about stud strength options and applicable nuts.
The factory studs are the go, however their aftermarket studs are 'marketed' as being stronger and cheaper than the factory units, however there are no actual numbers to back up the claims, so I went factory. I am going to push the studs I installed out and reinstall with a more manual process to reduce the incidence of tensile over reach on both rear wheels.
I also confirmed the tapered nuts are the right ones for the GU4 alloys, so have purchased another complete set of new factory nuts with the open ends so the stud projection can be passively monitored as opposed to fitting the ones with the closed ends. The open ends are the ones used on utes with steel wheels also.
Surprised also the replacement rotor from Castlemaine Rod Shop arrived at 9am, only ordered it at 4pm yesterday - brilliant service.
Must be 17" rims to clear the Willwood Brakes, otherwise I would have gone this way instead of the alloys to begin with. I am struggling to find the value to torque the studs to - 6 manuals, internet search, simply no values. Going to have to go back to first principles I think working backwards from max allowable tensile stress I think - boy this is going to be a deep dive into my engineering design past!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
Picked up new studs today and a full set of wheel nuts. According to PAP the drv side rear wheel is a known culprit - would really like to understand this. I know since putting in the new motor the torque reaction is into that corner under hard acceleration, which by default means its vectored into that corner at all power applications.
Unsure whether this translates to greater load or single wheel reaction, puzzling. Anyway all rear studs getting replaced tomorrow, new disk installed, back to original, so am happy with the reliability over the last 350klm despite the wheel loss - glad it happened in Yarra Glen and not out the back of nowhere from a convenience perspective.
Just be really really careful about this mate. That advice will be correct so long as there are tapered holes not flat-bottomed holes in the rims. You need to have the nut and rim nestle together for maximum friction grip.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
Plassy I will have the wheels off tomorrow. The GU4 alloys have a tapered seat, the Y60 alloys have a flat end piece and require the flat nut. Funny enough when I was picking up 'my nuts' off the middle of the round about I spotted what I thought I spotted the 6th stud but it was actually a broken stud with a flat ended wheel nut , so obviously even the GQ alloy nuts and studs have a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
Roger that. The only reason I stressed the point is my GU2 alloys had flat seats. Must have changed somewhere in between! All good.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
Honestly will have a look. I stood in front of the guy at PAP that I have seen for at least 5 yrs and he told me this story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
Definitely 60 degree taper on the Y61 17" factory alloys, and the handbook for my 2015 GU Y61 wagon states 97 ft/lbs tension. I do a recheck after a few hundred ks, and also re-do the tension anytime the wheels are played with by anyone else. Rattle guns are only for removal in my opinion.
Would you have a seating torque for the studs by any chance? I am just going to rattle a start on the new ones then use a torque wrench to seat them. I cant fand a a seating force or a torque listed anywhere. I guess slow and gentle or whatever the torque is to seat them firm against the diff housing end plates without over tensioning by screwing up the rattle gun?
OK, I found a source that gives a seating torque from a rattle gun at 210nm for an M12 x 1.25P wheel stud. I have trawled thru my text books and found the method to calculate the torque, finally, however I need to know the stud tensile strength, which isn't stamped on the stud like you find for a HT bolt. The equations spread across 3 pages, so I am happy to go with this published number. I seated the replacement studs with a 12V torque gun on the side of the road, rated at 300nm - its a cheapie that came with the 12V 10T jack I bought so I doubt this is accurate by any imagination. Anyway tomorrow I will set the torque wrench at 210 and see how close to the mark they are.
I also bought a tool off ebay that is a cupped spacer with a bearing and specific stud seating nuts, so these can be used later if the others break. Either way the complete set of rear studs are coming out, with luck thats the end of it. New nuts, torqued as advised within 97 - 120nm , using the ARP HT Stud lubricant to ensure the seating torque is friction free as much as possible.
So 210nm for stud seating and 100 - 120nm for nuts as a reference point
Did a bit more digging, rang the mechanic and he uses a Snap on 18V impact gun thats not adjustable, relatively new, and rated at 540nm, so maybe here is the final piece of the puzzle, not throwing stones at him, but its a likely cause I think especially since the studs failed a 400klm after installation
Maybe also try freezing the studs before installing them - should shrink them a tad and make it a bit easier. Not sure if this might reduce the strength of the stud, but they should be good to 0 degrees at least.
OK, decided to swap all the studs out on the basis they were all installed by the same method that resulted in the first wheel failure. Started at 8am, finished at 4pm, nice and easy, just repetitive. All the wheel studs in use are the longer Rear Wheel studs due to the Willwood kit upgrade. No real issues except could simply not seat the studs at 210nm, no way, so backed it off after noticing the wheel nuts I was using to pull the studs into position were all suffering from thread deformation and making it difficult to remove, Settled on 130nm which is more than ample - I mean they are seated well and truly so no point stressing the stud. Used ARP thread seating lubricant on the spline and the nuts, so the torque is a real value with friction removed to a great degree. Had to modify and install a new brake disk as the other one was too mangled to rework into a working form. Lucky I had a couple of spares.Attachment 88315Attachment 88316Attachment 88317Attachment 88318Attachment 88319Attachment 88320Attachment 88321Attachment 88322