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Nic,
big winch. Are your winch and or crumple zone mounts/airbags if fitted up to this load? My son-in-law bought an LDV and the max load capacity for his vehicle is 8000lb winch, and looking at the tin foil chassis i doubt thats even over rated. TJM make a bar but 8000lb is his limit.
Hi mate, the winch I have fitted is an Ironman bullbar, they say you can fit up to 12000lb for max dimensions, and I have confirmed the winch will fit in cradle. Regarding the car, my neighbour is a boilermaker welder by trade, he has said the chassis platform the car sits on is lightyears ahead of our other neighbours 2019 Hilux, infact he went as far as to say it it is probably one of the best welded, and strongly constructed chassis' he has seen in the modern vehicle market. His bread and butter is he works on busses, trucks and light vehicles so I'll take his word for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
To be fair I highly doubt I'll ever be loading the winch up that much as much as it's capacity, it was just a decent price, from a Victorian company(not king's) and I figured what can I loose.
Do you see any problems I hadn't considered?
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Its a fair thing to suggest you won't use the capacity until you do. In the engineering field, you design the structure to suit the max load the winch can develop, and then whatever factor of safety. Look up some load recovery factors for bogged to the floor board vehicles, and see how the load magnifies. Ultimately your call at the end of the day, just don't let the recovery ops get away from the stated capacity of the bar - yes, your words say 12000lb max dimension, but ultimately you have a beast that supposedly can generate 17500lbs single line pull. If you do pull the chassis out of alignment or something lets go on the winch bar or mounts, could be an interesting conversation with the insurance company at best. If it was me, I would be guided by the capacity of the bar, rather than the assurances of the boilermaker next door.
fair call mate. i guess im never going to put this car into the position it will be bogged, or winching two vehicles out in situ, at max load ill be pulling over a tree in my yard, clearing a track or pulling the car loaded with firewood up a hill thats too slippery to drive. ill keep in mind your comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
A lot of engineering says this and that, at the end of the day bigger whinch will do a better job. Who gives a fuck. Drive it, get it stuck and winch it. Get out…happy daysQuote:
Originally Posted by rusty_nail
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Maybe you could do us all a favour and start an auto 4wd insurance company with these terms and conditions - I suspect you would get a lot of policy's and equally a lot of claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxhead
I'll take out a policy for sure .Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
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Insurance? Why complicate things ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
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Hey mate was thinking seriously today about your suggestion, just wondering, if you are doing a double line pull does this not also increase the pulling capacity of the winch or the force the winch is able to pull through? Does that mean if you winch out with a double line pull you would also be exceeding your bullbar capacity? Keen to hear it from an engineering perspectiveQuote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
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You'd be halving the load and splitting it between the bar and whatever the hook ends up being on.Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty_nail
Usually the recovery point which is usually on the chassis.
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Haha cheers mate, clearly didn't realise the double line pull would halve. I thought the force remained the same but the the pull was still what it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge
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If you have a single line pull with say a 4000kg load, the load on the rope is 4000kg, single point. If you run a double line pull with a 4000kg pull, the load on each rope is 2000kg, hence you have spread your load across 2 load points, each of 2000kg, which is a good thing from a chassis protection perspective.. This is why the winch works easier with a double line pull than a single line pull, however the line speed of the rope is halved or there abouts(depends on the speed to load rating of the winch.) This ls why i mentioned the point of taking care with the hook up, as if you have a 8000kg load you are going to be better off with a double line pull as the individual reaction loads are lower (4000kg/rope) than a single pull direct on the winch drum. What you would logically expect is for a winch bar rated at 12000lb/5400kg, you should be able to do a single line pull of 12000lb/5400kg that reacts thru the mounts and the chassis or winch mount, with certainty, there will not be any damage as the load is spread across the mounts in the bar and the chassis. The amps will be lower, your battery will like you more and the winch will stay cooler. So, if this was on my vehicle, and I knew the bar was rated for a 12000lb winch, I would probably default to double line pulls to ensure the bar capacity does not get exceeded, unless its a load you can accurately assess as below the 12000lb limit.. In theory, you can pull 16500lb x 2 on a double line pull at the drum, which is in excess of the single point loading for the 12000lb design point, so for safety you should be able to pull 24000lb on a double line pull and not exceed the bullbar manufacturers rating. Only caveat on this is how the bullbar manufacturer calculates the loading point limit - which we dont know. Also this is based on a straight line pull, not a pull on an obtuse angle. Nic, you can see there is a danger with a single line pull on 16500 V 12000lb capacity, and even still a potential if you get too confident on a double line to exceed the individual line loading. As a direct example, the son in laws vehicle is max rated for a winch at 8000lb and upon inspection, i can agree its a piss poor construction, but frustrating as I have 3 x 12000lb electric winches in my garage however dont have the confidence to put one of these on for fear he pulls the chassis out of alignment of even pulls the BB off.Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty_nail
I am jus highlighting some risk. You are smart enough and experienced enough to think it all through and exercise caution, unlike the 'send it brigade'.
Yep I understand and just wanted to understand if I'd made a grave error or not. Seems I just need to be cautious how I use it which is fine. Thanks for clarifying mate I was worried I'd wasted my money and bought a good paperweight. I should be able to work to the limitations listed so all good!Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
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For what it's worth, this is what I bought. I paid about $420 for it. I doubt it would truly be 17500lb load capacity
https://au.vicoffroad.com/products/1...remote-atv-4wd
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Interesting conversation. I must say I was surprised when I went back a page to see what winch we are talking about. A 17K winch is Massive.
I have purchased a 13K winch for the 62. I grabbed a Runva from Sparesbox when Jaycee mentioned the sale.
I think one of the most important things to understand and probably thr most concerning is that the winch is not the weakest point here. We want the winch to stall out before something breaks. This by default is a safety factor. Stalls out, ok double line pull. Slow and steady. The 17K winch is a Beast. The 62 has a front axle weight issue too. Not sure what the 17k winch is. I supposed it really just must always be Eyes Wide Open. Think about the action. Think about the setup. Safety safety safety.
I definitely think that a bridle should be used in a double line pull and every effort to avoid grabbing 1 side of thd chassis. Again, the 17K will pull through much hard and not stall, I'd hate for you to Rake the chassis by accident. Share the load off both sides. A recovery point on both sides the centre to return off both rails via a bridle.
I assume I has a Rope and not a wire rope?
Ok. So this changes things a little. To start with it is running a 9.5mm rope..... regardless of your 17K capacity yoyr 9.5mm rope will let you down way way before you get near terminal pull. The 13K Runva I have bought has an 11mm rope. My 24v Himount runs a 12mm rope.Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty_nail
Know also your 17K will be measured on the first wrap of rope around the drum. It will probably be fine mate.
Phew! Thanks mate crisis averted!Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD
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You will have no dramas mate. Have an actual look at the specs for that 17500lb winch over the real world runva 13xp.Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty_nail
The 17.5k lb winch has a 6.6hp motor with a 218.4:1 gearbox.
The runva has a 7.6hp motor with a 228:1 ratio gearbox.
So the runva 13hp will easily out pull the 17500lb item you have purchased so no stress for your chassis mate.
A little bit of bullshit advertising goes a long way [emoji23]
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Snip "Sealed engine matter quite a lot when you are trapped by gruesome conditions.*"
Can't go wrong with these features . . [emoji1787][emoji106][emoji106]
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I am a little bothered by this Daz. The last thing you want is the rope to fail before the winch gives up. Looking at the capacity of various 9.5mm ropes they are all over the place regards minimum breaking point, some over and some under the max pull of the winch. i know we have some assurances that the winch is unlikely to be used to its capacity, but, who knows what can happen in a moment of stress or enthusiasm? I would want a rope that can withstand the 17500lb and then some, like increasing to the 11 or 12mm diameter. of course it depends on what duty and life its going to have, and no doubt your 24V high mount application is some distance away from this one. Its going to be hard to ascertain the grade of rope to be honest unless the manufacturer states the breaking load point of the rope. Again, play safely is probably my recommendation, and I would prefer to have the rope intact and the vehicle safely anchored, and the winch stalled or go out on thermal than have the rope give way before it reaches the rated pull - just my way of thinking. If I could not ascertain the grade or breaking point of the rope or the rope does not have a factor of safety of at least 1.5 : 1 at 17500lb, i would probably swap it out for a known load rated rope. Or, just work within the known capacity, but difficult unless you have a strain gauge attached to the rope at some point. Good conversation this guys. I like the pick up about the bridle which makes good sense, and the max capacity at the drum, so I guess it may be ok as configured - probably thinking too hard about this and from a compliance/lifting perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD
Most 9-10mm synthetic winch rope has a breaking strain higher than 17500lb... pretty easy to find all this stuff....
Yes, agree but there is also a lot out there that is close to the rating as well, hence the comment. I am sure he will be ok based on the intended use.Quote:
Originally Posted by nissannewby
Have a look at my earlier comment to. Post #5138.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
His winch is not what it's advertised as.
I agree a broken rope sux. I have broken more than my fair share. At the end of the day the forces needed to break thr rope really won't be evident winching up a hill. The most likely time will be chassis deep in mud with a suction factor of 300%. When the rope breaks you ain't going anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
As Matt pointed out well though... it's a nice shiny Sticker. Don't believe the sticker.
And when in doubt. Read This again.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...e-Fundamentals
The first post here covers most of this well.
That's Mr Pepper. Very informative .Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD
I only watched his bridle video few days ago ...
https://youtu.be/V13ARMYoAos
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Well that went somewhere unexpected. The bots have to get it right sometime lol
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Outstanding Video. I liked it A Lot. On the basis of his maths a 6m rope bridle is a No Brainer... for my comments above its all about centralising the load so everything dealt with in that vid is bang on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge
It gets a bit full on but bare with it. Everyone should watch that vid. I will post it in the Recovery thread.
Yeah he's bloody good, same with his stuff on towing / trailer sway, reckon everyone towing especially all the big rigs on the road should be mandatory to watch. . .
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Was suggested from a few guys from work. Is nice and smooth.[emoji1634]http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...021/08/184.jpg
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I bought a new trailer. I inherited an f250 tub a while back and have been on the hunt for something to put it on. after months of looking all over greater Melbourne, this turns up 10 mins from my front door. Stoked!http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2021/09/21.jpg
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Nice looks solid as a rock [emoji106]
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3t axle, 1500kg springs, electric brake's that work really well. And yeah the chassis is build really well, it's 14 years old clearly hadn't been painted anytime recently and not a speck of rust. All the welds look great, and the dimensions are perfect for the tub. Couldn't have asked for more I think. It even has one of those block hitches that I don't know what to call, should be great when out collecting woodQuote:
Originally Posted by Rossco
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It's a treg hitch. Looks like a great trailer
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It will make a great camper.
I'll probably use it more for firewood collection, and long timbers ontop. Might get taken out bush but mum and dad are going to leave an Avan down here when they are allowed into the state, so we can use it and they can stay in it when they come down, or even wanna come down for a Vic holiday. The tub and accessories I scored were mint though, it came with a full canopy, elevated front storage and separately a hardlid with gas struts and very large very solid ladder rack. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...2021/09/22.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by mudnut
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3t single axle? Can you tell me more
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Pretty sure mb got something like this to upgrade his kanga trailer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxhead
https://www.huntsmanproducts.com.au/...nd-l-c-pattern
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Sweet, I was thinking of something like this but wasn’t sure it was possible [emoji106]Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty_nail
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