Club 4X4 - Insurance for 4X4 Enthusiasts

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

I expect Kalen will comment further when he next drops by.

However my understanding is that there is ‘broken’ & ‘broken’

In a nutshell, if it’s a mechanical breakdown & you needed to abandon it, this would be no different to a breakdown in the middle of the city. Insurance would not cover it.

If it’s an accident (e.g. you have a head on with another vehicle, or roll it down a dune) insurance will cover it for the agreed value. The decision (& cost unless you have the recovery cover) to recover it will be yours.

I wonder if they have insurance assessors who will travel to remote areas to check the vehicle in the event of a claim or if not what the process would be (Kalen?)

The additional Remote area recovery cover will cover the costs of getting the vehicle out whatever the reason for not being able to drive it out under it’s own power.

My belief, which may be wrong, is that RACV top cover, covers you for recovery on gazetted roads. In the Simpson Desert example recovery to Birdsville, I would expect that RACV cover would cover the 40kms from Big Red to Birdsville. So if you have that RACV cover (as we do) the new addition to Club 4x4’s Remote area recovery option would not be required. I guess the Recovery cost claimed to them would be less (by the amount covered by the Racv) & therefore the 5% excess amount would be less. This seems to me to make the increased Remote area recovery premium seem less justifiable for those with RACV top cover.

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When I was talking to club 4x4 on the phone we talked about using their basic included offroad recovery in conjunction with my racv total care package.
If something happens, club 4x4 will get me to the main road and then racv will take it from there.

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Originally Posted by Winnie

When I was talking to club 4x4 on the phone we talked about using their basic included offroad recovery in conjunction with my racv total care package.
If something happens, club 4x4 will get me to the main road and then racv will take it from there.

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Yup, that's what I thought. Given that that is the case the increase in premium for Remote area Recovery seems pretty steep. A 135% increase, plus potentially significant higher 'excess' (up from a flat rate $200 to 5% of claimed amount, potentially up to $1,500) for nothing extra to what was previously offered, unless you don't have RACV cover, in which case it still seems like a huge increase for not a lot more than previously offered.

I'm thinking they must have realised that what they were offering previously was not sustainable which is rather disappointing. I suppose as the only insurer offering remote recovery cover they can charge whatever they think the market will bear.

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

I suppose as the only insurer offering remote recovery cover they can charge whatever they think the market will bear.

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deleted comments

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

Thanks for the update Kalen.

I’ve had a look at the revised cover & feel that the product has certainly been improved.

I am less certain about the changes to pricing however. Is it possible that Club 4x4 realised what they were previously offering was not sustainable for the company & have used the changes to cover to address this?

If I am reading it correctly it seems that for the addition of ‘closing the gap’ between the previous recovery to a gazetted road and the new recovery to sealed road or nearest town comes at quite a hefty price increase. Both the 5% of claimed amount excess AND a hefty premium increase.

So in the case of $30,000 off road recovery cover there is a premium increase of $345 (from $255 to $600) plus if the full $30,000 is claimed an additional excess of $1500

I accept that the pricing has to keep your company profitable & afloat, & the addition of the 5% of the claimed amount does sound, as your press release says, equitable. However an added $345 to the previous premium of $255 to me seems an excessive amount just to cover the difference between ‘to a gazetted road’ & to a sealed road or nearest town’.

In the example given on your Simpson Desert recovery case study (http://www.club4x4.com.au/case-studies/) the distance from the edge of the Simpson to Birdsville is around 40kms, a 45 minute drive for a recovery truck. $345 extra premium to cover that does seem a lot.

Obviously there could be circumstances in other places where the additional distance covered to get to a sealed road or nearest town could be further, but shouldn’t this be what the 5% of claimed amount excess should cover? ;)

In principal I would accept a small premium increase AND the additional excess as reasonable for the added coverage, but a premium increase of a tad over 135%? Whew!

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G'day Cuppa,

Sorry about the late response - some really good points raised there and i'll do my best to answer them as openly and honestly as possible. In writing the release, we've taken a pretty open approach to explaining all of the adjustments including premium and excess - we don't want to hide behind any clauses.

As you've noted, in the process of reviewing this benefit we took the opportunity to truly take a step back and look at the entire offering in detail. Many of the adjustments we have put in place were simply to remove ANY chance of there being any "grey" areas in the wording. It was made pretty clear to us that the way the product was worded was basically going to result in a product that either:

1) Wasn't going to respond, because the recovery you were trying to claim was made from a gazetted road, or,
2) Where it did respond, didn't respond enough because you still had to get the vehicle from what would often be a off-road gazetted track, (accessible by the main roadside assistance providers) to a sealed road for your roadside to then respond and get you back for repairs

In the process of doing this, like any product development project, we took the opportunity to take a look at what the anticipated claims costs would be for the revised cover. I note your example about Birdsville and notwithstanding that example, we are in a pretty big country as we all know. To allow for the coverage that everyone was calling out for, there needed to be an increased premium and deductible.

The product now becomes one that would need to be a considered purchase - this isn't an every day coverage as we see it. If you know you're doing a significant desert crossing during this policy period, you would elect to purchase the extra in the same way that you'd get a sat phone, decide to upgrade you entire suspension system or do significant restorative work or modifications to your drive-train. It's all a calculated decision.

The unfortunate reality is that without the cover, depending on where you are, you may be up for a recovery that would ground your trip and make it difficult to take your next one for quite a while. Paying the extra, even when including the excess would need to be considered and weighed against the potential cost you may incur.

Hope that makes sense and answers your questions. I'll try and get back on here tomorrow to check if there are any further responses.

Oh, and thanks for your responses to some of the other questions on here :-)

Kal

Will try to answer in dot point below guys

A broken down vehicle is not a claimable event under a Motor Insurance policy - this is considered wear and tear. You're right however Cuppa in that if you damage the in a collision or accident, yes you're covered. It is then our responsibility to recover the vehicle to get it fixed - like any other insurance provider. If we needed to get out to see the car we do have agents that can do that for us.

Our Off-Road Recovery Cover is there to get your vehicle out to the nearest sealed road or town (whichever closest) if you're broken down, or to get covered for the cost of recovering your car out of a bogged situation. This benefit is unique to us and not offered anywhere else at the moment.

Lastly, i wont comment on what other providers out there offer. What i can say is that in the process of talking to various people i've been told that the various roadside providers may or may not to get you from a dirt road. Sometimes it's based on your tenure with them, sometimes it's not clear what its based on. I would consider what the gazetted roads you usually travel on are like - then determine if a rear wheel drive tilt tray will be able to get to you. That's often the determinant.

Id be looking for something on paper, addressed to you, on corporate letterhead, calling out that they will come and get you from any gazetted road in Australia before i'd sleep easy :-)

Cheers

Kal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

I expect Kalen will comment further when he next drops by.

However my understanding is that there is ‘broken’ & ‘broken’

In a nutshell, if it’s a mechanical breakdown & you needed to abandon it, this would be no different to a breakdown in the middle of the city. Insurance would not cover it.

If it’s an accident (e.g. you have a head on with another vehicle, or roll it down a dune) insurance will cover it for the agreed value. The decision (& cost unless you have the recovery cover) to recover it will be yours.

I wonder if they have insurance assessors who will travel to remote areas to check the vehicle in the event of a claim or if not what the process would be (Kalen?)

The additional Remote area recovery cover will cover the costs of getting the vehicle out whatever the reason for not being able to drive it out under it’s own power.

My belief, which may be wrong, is that RACV top cover, covers you for recovery on gazetted roads. In the Simpson Desert example recovery to Birdsville, I would expect that RACV cover would cover the 40kms from Big Red to Birdsville. So if you have that RACV cover (as we do) the new addition to Club 4x4’s Remote area recovery option would not be required. I guess the Recovery cost claimed to them would be less (by the amount covered by the Racv) & therefore the 5% excess amount would be less. This seems to me to make the increased Remote area recovery premium seem less justifiable for those with RACV top cover.

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A supplementary question Kal. :)

I may have it wrong, but thought that the likes of the RACV would recover it's members (with top cover) from any gazetted road/track.

I don't fully understand your statement 2) Where it did respond, didn't respond enough because you still had to get the vehicle from what would often be a off-road gazetted track, (accessible by the main roadside assistance providers) to a sealed road for your roadside to then respond and get you back for repairs.

If an off road gazetted track is accessible by the main roadside assistance providers why would someone covered by them need to get their vehicle back to a sealed road before accessing their service?

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

snip...
I may have it wrong, but thought that the likes of the RACV would recover it's members (with top cover) from any gazetted road/track.

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Dunno about other states but that is not the case with RAC.

You have to be within 'x' kilometres of the service centre IE town.
The 'x' depends on the level of cover but highest is, I think, 100 K's and the 'road' has to be 2WD IE they won't go and hire a specialist to come get you.

I think they call it 'non-guaranteed service' and it means if you are not on a 2WD road they will help you source assistance but you have to pay for it
In WA that is, you guessed it, most of WA

From the RAC PDS....

Trafficable Road
means any public or private road, which is
designed for, and is in a suitable state to facilitate, the movements
of a two-wheel drive motor vehicle without restriction.


Un-constructed Surface
means an unsealed or
un-constructed surface which is not trafficable by a two wheel
drive vehicle.

Un-constructed Surfaces and non Trafficable Roads:
Breakdowns which occur on Un-constructed Surfaces or
non Trafficable Roads will be attended at the discretion of
the RAC or RAC Contractors, with any excess cost payable
by the Member at the time of service.

Bogged Vehicles:
Vehicles bogged on an Un-constructed
Surface or non Trafficable Road will be attended at the
discretion of the RAC. The time spent in recovery of bogged
Vehicles and/or equipment used in such a recovery is
payable by the Member to the RAC or the RAC Contractor
at the time of service. The cost of travelling to the Vehicle is
covered by the Roadside Assistance Package to the extent
of the applicable distance limits. The Member is responsible
for paying any excess cost at the time of service. Service
does not extend to a Vehicle that has been damaged as the
result of being bogged.

Out on the Great Central I had to provide Credit Card info up front before the truck would leave Yulara.
No CC or no Cash then no Flat bed

Hey Cuppa - i've responded to your points below.

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Originally Posted by Cuppa

A supplementary question Kal. :)

I may have it wrong, but thought that the likes of the RACV would recover it's members (with top cover) from any gazetted road/track.

I wouldn't caution a guess here mate - i only go off what i've been told, so what i write here is only my thoughts and general advice. I think it's prudent to spend the time to get to know those products like you have ours


I don't fully understand your statement 2) Where it did respond, didn't respond enough because you still had to get the vehicle from what would often be a off-road gazetted track, (accessible by the main roadside assistance providers) to a sealed road for your roadside to then respond and get you back for repairs.

What i was trying to say was that under our old cover - you would've had to be on a totally unrecognized road. For example, cutting your own path, or driving cross country - not on any tracks) before the wording would allow for coverage. This still left a gap for you as a consumer where you'd need to foot the bill to get it from the gazetted track, out to a road or track where you know your roadside will come too.

If an off road gazetted track is accessible by the main roadside assistance providers why would someone covered by them need to get their vehicle back to a sealed road before accessing their service?

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They wouldn't, but i would be 100% crystal clear in understanding where they will and wont come before you rely on your roadside assistance policy to come and get you anywhere that is gazetted. Example, you're bogged on the sand with a rising tide on Fraser Island - will your roadside assistance provider come and get you? They may well will - my advice is that you take the time to study their wording in detail and become as comfortable as possible with what they will do for you.

Cheers

Kal

Sorry Cuppa, the above didn't display the way i wanted - hopefully the layout can be understood. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by the evil twin

Dunno about other states but that is not the case with RAC.

You have to be within 'x' kilometres of the service centre IE town.
The 'x' depends on the level of cover but highest is, I think, 100 K's and the 'road' has to be 2WD IE they won't go and hire a specialist to come get you.

I think they call it 'non-guaranteed service' and it means if you are not on a 2WD road they will help you source assistance but you have to pay for it
In WA that is, you guessed it, most of WA

From the RAC PDS....

Trafficable Road
means any public or private road, which is
designed for, and is in a suitable state to facilitate, the movements
of a two-wheel drive motor vehicle without restriction.


Un-constructed Surface
means an unsealed or
un-constructed surface which is not trafficable by a two wheel
drive vehicle.

Un-constructed Surfaces and non Trafficable Roads:
Breakdowns which occur on Un-constructed Surfaces or
non Trafficable Roads will be attended at the discretion of
the RAC or RAC Contractors, with any excess cost payable
by the Member at the time of service.

Bogged Vehicles:
Vehicles bogged on an Un-constructed
Surface or non Trafficable Road will be attended at the
discretion of the RAC. The time spent in recovery of bogged
Vehicles and/or equipment used in such a recovery is
payable by the Member to the RAC or the RAC Contractor
at the time of service. The cost of travelling to the Vehicle is
covered by the Roadside Assistance Package to the extent
of the applicable distance limits. The Member is responsible
for paying any excess cost at the time of service. Service
does not extend to a Vehicle that has been damaged as the
result of being bogged.

Out on the Great Central I had to provide Credit Card info up front before the truck would leave Yulara.
No CC or no Cash then no Flat bed

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Yep, I just looked at RACV which is similar but less detailed. No mention of Gazetted roads - just similarly 'trafficable to 2wd vehicles'.
Service will be provided on
private property or on any
public highway in Victoria,
provided they are trafficable
to normal two wheel drive
vehicles. This excludes areas
such as open fields, beaches,
creek beds, recreation ovals,
logging or forest service
roads and roads which do
not allow oncoming traffic
to safely pass.

Of course they have reciprocal arrangements with interstate RAC's, & I know that recovery is determined often by the type of vehicle the local operator has. Eg. We had our bus recovered (& costs covered) on the back of a tow truck & covered by the RACV in the NT even though it was over the weight limit, because the local operator's truck was suitable - however this certainly cant be relied on, so it seems there are greater limitations on RAC(V) cover than I had thought. A difference (maybe) with RACV is that if you are in a location they will come to, & are more than 100kms from home they will cover your towing costs to the nearest repairer regardless of distance. So if I broke down in the middle of the Birdsville Track I'd expect they would come out to me because it is trafficable to 2wd vehicles, but many desert tracks man not be considered so.