Just putting it up as a stand alone thread, we have to promote this as much as we can...if this saves one life then it is worth it.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...s-another-life
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...ch-Strap-death
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Just putting it up as a stand alone thread, we have to promote this as much as we can...if this saves one life then it is worth it.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...s-another-life
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...ch-Strap-death
If ya snatch ya ball, it'll end in tears.
Ball bustin is not a spectator sport, no snatch here.
If you need a pull, leave your ball alone.
I thought the transport Depts could issue this to all 4wd owners as stickers with their rego, to stick above the towbar :-)
And sincere sympathy to the people who have learned this lesson the hard way, and to their families. Such a shame.
We have been talking about warnings on snatch straps regarding towballs, here it is in black and white, has anyone got a snatch strap with ALL of the mandatory warnings affixed?
If not, why not? as they must be supplied with instuctions and warnings regarding towballs before being imported or sold.
Please take the time to read below, in particular reg. 9
Hi guys, here is the regulation regarding snatch straps and their use.
In particular, regulation 9.
Trade Practices (Consumer Product Safety Standard) (Motor Vehicle Recovery Straps) Regulations 2010
or go to www.productsafety.gov.au and look under 'vehicle accessories'
Mandatory standard- Motor vehicle recovery straps.
Just read that Rod, and to me it gives a false impression on the short introduction, unless you click on the heading and open up the extended section for more information, then you have to scroll down to the bottom of the page where it tells you not to attach snatch straps to tow balls.
Not good enough in my opinion, but thanks for posting up the site mate.
http://www.productsafety.gov.au/cont...mItemId/974643
Thanks Wayne, I wasn't too sure how to post it.
My main concern is that it is now LAW to have these warnings including towballs on the packet and on the strap!
I would be interested as to weather this is in fact the case as I have not seen any snatch straps with the specific warning about towball attachment.
Cheers Rod.
EDIT: This is the warning that must be a part of the snatch strap after July 2010, I havn't seen it!!
The information must also include the following:
■‘WARNING—Always follow product instructions. It is important to correctly attach the motor vehicle recovery strap to a motor vehicle. A standard tow ball or vehicle tie-down point is not designed for this purpose and may result in the strap or a vehicle component detaching from a motor vehicle and striking and seriously injuring or killing a person. Only attach the strap to a vehicle recovery point or device that is suitably rated for use with the strap. Incorrect use has previously resulted in serious injury and death.’
Just check mine Rod, they are about 3 years old and no mention of tow balls on them, reading the link that you posted labeling was only made mandatory on 1st October 2010.
Would be interested to hear from anyone that has purchased one since then.
I have had a couple of members Pm me about this horrible news.
Not sure if this article has been posted somewhere else but here is a link regarding the latest accident over in WA...
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...towing-mishap/
a mate of mine always throws it over his towball and won't listen no matter how many times i tell him not. i refuse to snatch him from his towball, but others just throw it on their towball to and do a towball to towball snatch. they just won't listen :(
I posted up the extract of the Mandatory Statement in response to Doggy's post in my thread here
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...468#post132468
All of the Straps I have purchased recently for myself or on behalf of my 4WD club plus the ones in our Wa Gov't Fleet Vehicles and in my SES Unit vehicles come with the mandatory warnings as per the product Standard.
It would be a very very silly person who sold one without them as the fines etc are pretty impressive to say the least let alone the liability if someone got hurt.
Many of our straps are custom made IE not mass produced for ARB, Just straps etc etc. Even when we get a "1 off" it comes with the Warnings.
The problem is that most people just "hook in" and don't bother reading anything. It's human nature unfortunately and what could be simpler... "its a strap with a loop at each end... hmmm what will I loop it over?"
hence my sticker idea.
...and not a bad idea Silver.
I thought of writing off to the Gov't Man and telling him to legislate so the Loops couldn't be any bigger than 45mm and you couldn't pass the strap thru.
That means they wouldn't fit over a Towball but would still take a rated Shackle below 8.5 Tons.
That dude who makes those "Safety Shackles" that are designed to go on a Tow Ball is going to get his rrse sued one day for sure. Yes, what he makes is legal, Yes, it says on the strap you shouldn't snatch off the Ball but he is facilitating the ability to do so.
Yesterdays Daily Telegraph
Rescue ends in death
A woman died when a rope smashed through a car window during the rescue of a friends car in WA on Saturday.
The 29 year old mother was sitting in the passenger seat while the other car was being towed out of the sand at a beach near Geraldton.
A rope attached to the tow ball of the other car broke, striking the other woman in the throat.
Facts all ignored?
Didn't take oportunity to explain cause and warn of incorrect proceedures.
Missed the mark completely I believe.
Just another dangerous 4WD story I reckon.
Macca
The small loop sounds like a good idea - I wonder what the downsides are - maybe they make them long to reduce the load on the first few sets of stitches? It would also make joining them problematic.Quote:
Originally Posted by the evil twin
With my sticker idea, I reckon most would go into the bin - but hopefully some that were binned would be read first.
The issue with engaging the Gov't, they are likely to come up with some sort of competency based testing and licensing, on a cost recovery/user paid basis as a condition of a beach permit, forest permit etc. Maybe that's ok, maybe not. Depends on point of view I guess. I think they already do it for offshore tourists on Fraser Island.
What chance have the new 4wd owners got when stuff like this is available to purchase.
I have sent a request to the seller to remove the product, I would encourage others to do the same then maybe they will get the hint...
If it has not been removed in the next few days then I well be taking it further..
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RECOVERY-...item27bcece022
I just went there to do the same Wayne, and it's gone!! thank goodness, one person has bought one tho, they should be notified of the danger.
Rod.
Hey Rod, it is still there mate and they are still taking orders..Quote:
Originally Posted by the ferret
Well that's strange, I had the item on ebay up after clicking on the link you posted, it was there so I went to his web address in the item description and was going to advise him, but it said "this item has been removed".
Some have already been sold though and the buyers need to be informed of the danger.
Unsafe products can be reported to the ACCC on www.productsafety.gov.au via the 'Report an unsafe Product' link.
Cheers Rod.
Being an Ebayer myself, I can't really get involved with the seller.
Thanks Rod, will follow it up tomorrow mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by the ferret
Hi Mate this is a fantastic thread i diddn't realise that the tow balls can come off, I would have assumed that it was rated @ 3500kg so would have been fine. I will let everybody I know the danger, Cheers Glenn
Good on you Glenn, it is surprising that there are a lot of 4wd owners that do not know this mate, so pass the word it could save a life..
Yeah, that's the problem tadpole, there are so many people like yourself that are not aware of the danger.Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole
It is so simple to loop the strap over the towball as it's the obvious place, but to mobilise 3 ton that is bogged, the towball is the weakest place.
There have been quite a few deaths, but many more near misses over the years that we don't hear about.
The Reece hitch by the way seems to be rated at only 2.500 kg, and that is for towing, not snatching.
It's good that you stumbled on this post as it may just have saved a life.
Cheers Rod.
This has been up before, but this is what can and sometimes happens,
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...rret/strap.jpg
And using one of these could also kill,, imagine a towball complete with shackle hitting your head at 2 or three hundred ks/hr, it aint gunna stop till it runs out of strap,
even if you are in it's way.
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...allshackle.jpghttp://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...et/37bb_12.jpg
My opinion of this product is that it could kill, and everything stated above is MY opinion.
Come to your own conclusions.Rod.
Just recieved a email from a mate from The 4WD Show who emailed this clowns and here is their reply:
"This product must be used with a rated towball, it hooks over your towball, if you send me your email address i can send you all our testing infomation."
I would like to know since when is a towball rated as a recovery point...........bloody W@NKER..
My mate is now calling 4WD Action to get them behind us.
Will call ACCC tomorrow after work if nothing happens (thanks Rod)
Just rang the ACCC and it is going to be put to the product safety group asap.............so stay tuned.
If you would like to call them and I encourage everyone to do so, the contact details are here: http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/54217
Makes you think.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...sc/Towball.jpg
I would not use a towball as a snatch point.
It is fascinating to go back to those tests the Kiwi bloke did. The particular towball he tested rated quite well compared with other attachment hooks.
However, clearly all towballs are not created equal.
And the one he tested failed at 8 tonnes, which happens to be the resistance of a Patrol si2e 4wd bogged to the chassis.
Finally, the towball seems to have a strong tendency to fly back to the tow vehicle. Whereas hooks can straighten.
This happens all over the world,
http://youtu.be/gaeFw_8-ylY
http://youtu.be/m1NnL83UpuQ
I tense up when I see those videos...lol
Nice work using the winch cable as a snatch em too!
When it is put to you like it has in this thread you can see how dangerous it really is. This is why i signed up to this forum, thanks guys i will never use my towball again for anything i cherish the lives of my family and friends to much. I will confess i have used it pull out small post with no issues, but never again. THANKS AGAIN.
Thanks mate, please pass the word around to all your mates..the more that know about this the better..Quote:
Originally Posted by Intenseracer
I knew what was coming Rod, so I moved to the left of the monitor and ducked......................bloody frightening stuff..Quote:
Originally Posted by the ferret
And I looked at many more while watching those two. And saw some little kiddies close to very strained winch cable as it broke, luckily, it didn't go towards them. I am starting to fear being recovered!
Tim
Well, I went to a supercheap store today on a mission and checked out the snatch straps for the obligatory warning lable.
Basicly it said "the buyer should do a 4x4 course and make sure all hook up points are suitable and properly fitted"
NOT good enough in my book.
In the recoveries I have been involved with the vast majority have not required much force or energy to extract the stuck vehicle, most times it's just a gentle pull through a snatch strap. In these cases if a properly rated strap in good condition is hooked up to proper recovery points with a cable damper over the strap and minimal force is applied, the recovery can be completed in complete safety as none of the elements or components used is stressed to anywhere near their limits. It goes without saying that spectators are moved well clear before any vehicle moves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finly Owner
The recoveries that you need to fear are where a vehicle is heavily stuck requiring a lot more force to remove it. In these cases you need to do every thing possible to make the recovery as easy as possible (digging around tyres and under vehicle, road building etc) to reduce the force required. If you take the time to assess every situation, plan the recovery properly and use the right equipment (which means going out prepared) there is no reason for the situation to be dangerous.
Tony
Very True Tony, some of the attempted recoveries of a fully bogged 4x4, I mean half way up the doors in mud, should be winched out.
Some folk think that the snatch strap is the answer in all situations, but they are best used for sand or slippery circumstances.
The mentallity of trying to snatch 3 ton of vehicle bogged upto the steps in mud is beyond me.
They are not a magic potion and this is when things go wrong, especially when the Gung ho or hero attitude is employed.
Rod.
Probably the one good thing which has come out of this recent tragity, is that plenty of discussion has be generated on hundreds of four wheel drive and camping forums across the net, and many people who were not aware of the dangers of various recovery techniques, are now asking a few questions and gaining a bit of knowledge, and will hopefully be doing this stuff a little safer in the future.
the other day I tied two ratchet straps together to pull my truck out of the bog, strap snapped and went straight through the back of a mates 4 runner back window and out the front. was lucky no one got hurt. will be buying a good snatch strap to use in future
So very true and an excellent post I must say.Quote:
Originally Posted by XTC
I had high hopes that the word would be spread and it seems to have been.
BUT there will still be the odd occasion when someone will join two tie down straps in an emergency and come to grief, they will usually break at the knot, and the knot is a very compacted bit of gear to be heading your way, enough to enter your head at the front and leave via the back of your skull.
Many thanks to Doggy for getting the ball rolling on this subject and it's upto all members, not just of this forum but any forum that you may be a member of, to pass the word on and refuse to help anyone who wants to snatch using the towball.
If they don't know about it, put them in the picture, if they still don't agree, leave them to dig their way out.
Hopefully the Google worm will have picked up the discussions and more folk will be alerted to the dangers of TOWBALL recovery.
Ferret.
Using the strap through hitch pin may not the best idea also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcv3yII7zUc
That's true mate, but at least you wont wear a towball, just the strap as the pin won't break.