Instead of a snatch block, the new thing is a snatch ring, like this:
Attachment 78616
Look like a damn good idea.
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Instead of a snatch block, the new thing is a snatch ring, like this:
Attachment 78616
Look like a damn good idea.
Never heard of this - how is it used? Do you thread a sling thru the centre then the rope from the winch runs around the outside or is this some sort of joiner for two snatch straps?
That looks pretty snazzy mate. Didn't know about them until you prompted me on to YouTube to find out. My only question would be how would the soft shackle anchoring it fare up to the friction heat or wear of the rotating ring? Could that be something of concern, if the soft shackle is weakened by use and lets go?
Yeah I don't know. From what I know they're new on the scene. They don't have much market penetration yet, I can only find them in the UK and just starting to come out in the US. Maxtrax are one of the bigger mobs putting them out, but only first in the US as far as I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasnart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blgt28NTnCU
You would have to be really careful with grime on the winch rope and ring. I have seen a winch rope start to fray after a few dusty uses.
Nope, not keen. The rope will get abraided and its rare for a clean line also, so my decision would be to stay with the tried and tested snatch block that will work in sandy muddy conditions without detriment to the synthetic rope. No issue using the knotted rope sling, have 3 of them myself, but would not expose the rope to a rubbing condition like they show.
They are only for use with soft shackles of course. I also have concerns about abrasion and friction as well as how (or if) they will remain aligned with the haul line.
Nah that is a rippa!! Watch that video gents. I want 2!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mudnut
Note also the 12mm soft shackles they are using. Puts mine back into scale! Lol.
Grime will make no difference here at all. The ring spins in the soft shackle, there is nearlly zero friction and no pass of dirty rope. The rope travels around the circumference like any other snatch block.
Great kit. BIG! No grease! I have had an ARB Snatch Block explode on me during a big winch! Got my attention! I reckon thats awesome.
That pic doesnt do it justice. Zoom in and that is rated for rope 10mm to 14mm. That makes it the same size as the one in the video above. Thats awesome!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by 10G
Do if you have not watched that video i highly recomend it as compulsory viewing for Soft shackles and rings! Maybe the best one I've seen for our application.
13minutes very well spent!
Here are some screen shots for your interest!
Here is some scale
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/308.jpg
Here is some application pics. Last 2 minutes of the vid. A great interview though gents.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/309.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/310.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/311.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/312.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/313.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/314.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/315.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/316.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/317.jpg
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Please do help my somewhat relatively new nuffy to winch rope head get around this concept Daz mate!
Ever so kindly been introduced to this great product from you good blokes here in 2015ish but have seen hard abrasion/burning lately of our top quality Aussie ‘Whittams’ rope we now buy.
If a Navi aint watching the hard side spool buildup then it does affect it severely surely the same as rotating a pulley across it under immense snatch block loads?
Honestly very keen to learn again here mate, you aint failed us yet [emoji106][emoji106]
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Whoops, took me too long to type that crap, time to watch and get educated!
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Great video actually mate, exciting new stuff to come!
Maybe just a few honest questions still though they didn’t quite cover or I nuffy missed no doubt.
Rope wear, big blokes words:
"It is proven not to be the case.....so far"
Skinny bloke, if the line drops out:
"rope on rope" (good safety still linked I guess)
They both agree together a soft shackles eye is the most common failure point yet pulley application has eye/knot rubbing against the pulleys side.
Honestly not trying to be negative, just can’t get my head around rope abrasion long term, please help?
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All good mate. The weakest link in the soft shackle is the eye around the knot. Regardless of its use that never changes. Considering this, how you set up the soft shackle when under load is important. Rather than trying to pull the back off the knot you fit it so the knot is near the load and trying to pull through. Much less load here.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
So dyneema is very very slick mate. With the ring spinning slowly around the soft shackle there will be very little friction. They discuss it a little in the vid. A winch recovery through a snatch block or ring is half speed of winch. So slow.
Assuming your soft shackle is clean and the ring is clean then there is no dirt to cause damage. Your winch rope is not slipping through, it is rotating. No friction .
If under an extraordinary event the ring failed and the rope came out from over it it would be caught by the shackle, it is looped through the shackle. This is a bonus.
Cheers mate, still a little confused but will get there eventually as always proven out there thank you[emoji106][emoji106]
As you may know I resisted rope full stop yet now thankfully convinced if used extra carefully, this next level is spooking me yet again :-)
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OK, so the ring stays static and the winch rope slips around the ring, yes, clever, tried to watch the video but kept getting smashed with pop ups, so gave up. Reckon I will stick with the snatch block for now as have not had one come apart in 30 yrs, but don't play in the same pit as others do.
Hmmm i dont get pop up adds watching thar phil, only once at the start?Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
But no, the ring rotates just like a conventional snatch block. Instead of the bearing spinning the ring spins around the centre soft shackle.
You can see here how it would spin as a dry bearing. If it did not spin then absolutely the original concern would be true, the dirty winch rope would slip around and act like a saw blade and slice it in half.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/320.jpg
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But in operation see how the knot of the soft shackle is positioned. Not trying to pull the head off the knot backwards.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/321.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/322.jpg
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The weakest part of the soft shackle is the loop because it is the thinnest. It is the size of the single rope, in this case 12mm dyneema. (Strong), what makes it weakest is the diameter of the bend around the rest of the rope, (at that point its 2x 12mm rope). By positioning it in this way the knot takes a fair bit of that stress.
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I'm not a fan at all. High load, rotationg alloy steel on thin synthetic strands.
It will melt it.
And grit will make it worse.
The anodising will wear into it.
Blocks using bearings are a far better idea as there is no sliding parts. It's all rotating..
I am back out at the mine, internet is about as fast as a dead slug at times, well below dial up. We have a Telstra tech out here for the last week trying to resolve, almost dead phones as well, so any pop up at this speed makes viewing next to impossible, maybe its one pop up, but for me it never ended and the video keeps stopping and refreshing. (this update will take over 10 mins to send) Anyway, principal understood, more relaxed now I know the ring actually rotates as well as it drops the frictional load between rope and donut, but over time, the dirt will abraid the rope and life will be reduced. I guess when I balance this against the number of times people will actually need to use the device, it will be fine. My approach is perhaps more conservative as I am using cranes and lifting devices, some lift plans take hours to resolve to be honest and on the job we are completing right now, the lifts have been analysed and challenged and reviewed at least a dozen times - I am sick of it to be honest, but when we do the work, it goes well. We work in highly controlled and regulated environs, as opposed to the loose recreational world, hence my responses may be framed within a different context. Anyway Daren, thanks for the explanation, good stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD
Not cheap, available from Drifta check here
Nah no way mate. Remember the sacrificial here is the Soft shackle. That will be the wear surface. When your soft shackle is dirty beyond service then your should replace it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguwesty
Same goes for your winch rope. When its at end of life replace it. You guys really are over thinking this i reckon.
Think about how slow your winch speed is througha snatch block. SLOW
Yeah a snatch block of decent quality will coat you $100 too though. Not too badQuote:
Originally Posted by TimE
Hard Anodizing tooQuote:
Originally Posted by bigguwesty
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...019/05/323.jpg
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Speed is not needed if you you have load and friction.Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD
And you and I both know that test in the video was soft.
Slight uphill unstuck car on hard ground..
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Cheers Phil, sounds like fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeBee
At the end of the day we are plating in a space using synthetic rope. The usage and environmentals dictate a shortened working life. If people respect the need to keep gear clean and abrasion free and inspect regularly (like they should anyway) them risk is mitigated.
If all the recovery components are in good condition then this Will Not be the weakest link
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Problem solved. A teflon tube as bearing. I thought a teflon washer would be the go between the knot and ring but that would act as a cutter at the centre. If the anodising was damaged at all, it would quickly corrode as same as an anodised fairlead, wouldn't it?
This is great discussion.
I brought this up, as last weekend I was going through what to pack for my trip and unpacked my snatch block & shackles. I need to get rid of unused things and reduce weight.
Carried the snatch block around for a 1000 years and never used it, but understand its usefulness. I've replaced the shackles with soft ones and am tossing up about this ring thing.
I've not watched the vid yet, but I can understand how the ring would rotate around the shackle if for no other reason than the rope is wrapped around the ring, or the rope has more surface area contacting the ring than the shackle so the rope will have more 'power' behind it to rotate the ring than the shackle which is stationary. Happy to be told I'm wrong, I'm not an expert.
My driving would see me maybe wearing this out in a gazillion years, but saving weight in my vehicle immediately.
This would be a good item to organise as a group buy I reckon.
Great innovation.
Can replace the hefty ARB snatch block residing in my draws constantly being a burden in a already gvm tickling GU.
In power industry over in the us of A , they have been using this ring technology as an insulator when rigging ropes through live line work.
Something unheard of here in behind the times land of Oz.
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Yeah, I reckon this idea must have come from somewhere else. I was thinking it's something you'd see on yachts with all their lines & pulleys etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge
Im in for a group buy for sureQuote:
Originally Posted by 10G
That looks much more reassuring Daz mate, is it two ropes together to make a single soft shackle bound at the monkey fist knot thingy?
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I was thinking if your winching 4t thats going to build a heap of heat.
Happy to be wrong , cant see it being safer and safety is the name of the game eh
@matfew can you post a couple of pics of that snatch block in the back of your GQ please mate. I ment to take a couple of pics.
Yeah maybe TD?? The winch'll be getting hot as well, I reckon you'd need to rest the winch first, but I got no experience with this stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by threedogs
Hey @MudRunnerTD you guys doing a splicing workshop some time?????
I'm happy to get in touch with Drifta and see if they'd like to donate one to the meeting so you can all test it out and review it etc. Any thoughts on that???
Yeah thats is the plan. I'd be keen if they want to throw one my way. Happy to review it and post a Youtube vid of it for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by 10G