Sound dampening..

Well a pull up on the reigns after parksy informed me of an issue I have been reading..
And have come across this..
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com
It's an interesting read, and has possible saved me hundreds..

Just to cap the link as it is quite long..
Products like dynamat and fatmat are sound dampening products, not sound blocking / absorbing.
So for these products to be at full effect you only need a panel surface coverage of 24%.
The idea if 100% coverage has come from aftermarket auto lines.
The reasons why, Its thin and dense. So the sound waves pass right threw like it was sheet metal.
Quote from link
"
It's the barrier layer that makes the most difference. I use mass loaded vinyl (MLV) for this. MLV is the answer to the question: "How inexpensively can we create a substitute for lead sheeting that will accomplish the same thing"?

Mass loaded vinyl is dense and limp - the ideal characteristics for a barrier. A material's resonant frequency is determined by its mass, stiffness and geometric. Low mass/high stiffness mean high resonant frequency. High mass and low stiffness mean a low resonant frequency. MLV and lead sheeting have resonant frequencies below the the audible range. Makes it an excellent barrier.."

So I my friends will be probably bypassing the dynamat, and going a different option.

Sorry parksy..

Very interesting link Kallen.

When i did the rebuild in the GQ i fitted a small section of deadener (A4 size) to the inside of each of the door skins rather than trying to do the whole door. I am pleased with how quite the GQ is even running Simex tyres.

Very good link mate cheers.

I can't wait to take my Patrol off the road for a couple of weeks some time to do this sort of thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD

Very interesting link Kallen.

When i did the rebuild in the GQ i fitted a small section of deadener (A4 size) to the inside of each of the door skins rather than trying to do the whole door. I am pleased with how quite the GQ is even running Simex tyres.

Very good link mate cheers.

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We'll I did notice the other day when running wires for the middle door speakers, that there was a piece of matting already on the outer skin..
About 130x100..
Sure its not the "magic 24%“ but I'm guessing it's the reason why it's there..

I guess the matting has the floor sorted, but what to use for the door skins??

Cheers for that westy. I too have been doing a lot of reading on the subject and I've come to the conclusion that the thin foil/butyl sheets are good at reducing vibrations and adding a "solid" feel to the vehicle, but aren't the answer to a super quiet vehicle.
In my research I have found a product called luxury liner pro made by second skin. Only problem is that it's a US company, need to see if we have any Aussie dealers.
http://store.secondskinaudio.com/luxury-liner-pro/
Watched a video on YouTube of this stuff and it looks heavy! Perfect for sound deadening.

Am looking also. That's a good find

Something like these to would be the pick I think..
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=161074028668
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=360719797099

MLV.
Jaycar stock this stuff by the looks of it.
page 226 in 2013 catalogue.
also online

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MudRunnerTD

Very interesting link Kallen.

When i did the rebuild in the GQ i fitted a small section of deadener (A4 size) to the inside of each of the door skins rather than trying to do the whole door. I am pleased with how quite the GQ is even running Simex tyres.

Very good link mate cheers.

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It's not quiet enough for you to hear the cable ties around your tail shaft though!

I'll still will be using Acoustic batts in the Quarter panels, mainly to stop HWY droning sound

great link Kallen

Found the jaycar stuff. At 4kg per m^2 and the price is very cheap so might be worth putting a couple of layers down. Very intrigued.
http://m.jaycar.com.au/m_productView.asp?ID=AX3680

Good price, around $100 for the floor.
But only 2.3mm thick.. I'll see if our local jaycar has Stock?

well just dropped into the local JayCar. Can get it, unfortunately no display piece.
But he tells me its self adhesive, very pliable and heavy.. So good start.
Might just get one square and see what its like..

Hey I got this off the jobsite today it might be worth further investigation.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...013/10/120.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...013/10/121.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...013/10/122.jpg

http://www.spec-net.com.au/press/0310/ecow_100310.htm

Weird, they are using a different method.. Light weight density..
How are we going to trial it cheaply??

Westy I have about 4 square meters here. Mate the stuff is lightweight squashes together 4-5 mm and its has the foam and dyanamat . least if you put it under floor cover you can pull it out dry it.

Would be good in the doors and use the self adhesive stuff on the floor

Well this is what i figure, I think it would be better on the floor least you pull it out inspect yours floors and its not a permanent fixture. I'm thinking bout removing all the foam under my vinyl floor lining and running this under it. I've already completely coated the floor with body shilzs/sound deadner so the floor is sealed. So something like this would be ultimate pull out high pressure wash and let dry.

Will it work when compressed but?? You see all that style of dampener at 100, not squashed??
Dunno, look forward to hearing some results. Lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Westy's Accessories

Will it work when compressed but?? You see all that style of dampener at 100, not squashed??
Dunno, look forward to hearing some results. Lol

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Westy you figure out someway we an benchmark/test it haha

When I finished my latest project I'll get to it http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forum...003#post440003

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sil3nt_dr3ams

Westy you figure out someway we an benchmark/test it haha

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During my home cinema design/testing, i needed to test sound insulation, so i built a MDF box with open sides at opposite ends, (a square tube in otherwords), attach/suspend a db meter to one end, then cover the other end with the test product.


Place a hifi speaker at a set distance on the opposite end to the db meter (so now the sound has to travel through the test product to get to the db meter) play a set track/recording through the speaker ,play sounds with frequency/s around what you expect to encounter (you could record the car noise you wish to reduce).



This can allow you to "hot swap" different products fast and easy in a semi controlled enviroment (well compare apples with apples anyway), and while not studio accurate, its much better than swapping it on the car to find out/guess, plus you only need small samples to test each product.



Simulated compressing of a soft product ,can be done by sandwiching the product between chicken wire (or steel mesh etc), if you fix chicken wire across the open test end of your bare box for "all" testing, all you need to do is use another peice of chicken wire over the outside, to now compress the test product.


Use screws into the body of your MDF box as fixtures, so you can attach cable ties or wire around them, this will allow you to pull the outer piece of chicken wire toward the chicken wire on the box, and so compress the test product that is sandwiched between them, but still allow sound to pass.



:)

Okay, so putting everything you said into play,

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-USB-...item19d726a14a

I'm thinking two of these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-USB-...item19d726a14a one inside the car one outside the car with a external sound source. As long as the two cheap db testers read the same and the external sound level is the same it should be a good place to start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 04OFF

During my home cinema design/testing, i needed to test sound insulation, so i built a MDF box with open sides at opposite ends, (a square tube in otherwords), attach/suspend a db meter to one end, then cover the other end with the test product.


Place a hifi speaker at a set distance on the opposite end to the db meter (so now the sound has to travel through the test product to get to the db meter) play a set track/recording through the speaker ,play sounds with frequency/s around what you expect to encounter (you could record the car noise you wish to reduce).



This can allow you to "hot swap" different products fast and easy in a semi controlled enviroment (well compare apples with apples anyway), and while not studio accurate, its much better than swapping it on the car to find out/guess, plus you only need small samples to test each product.



Simulated compressing of a soft product ,can be done by sandwiching the product between chicken wire (or steel mesh etc), if you fix chicken wire across the open test end of your bare box for "all" testing, all you need to do is use another peice of chicken wire over the outside, to now compress the test product.


Use screws into the body of your MDF box as fixtures, so you can attach cable ties or wire around them, this will allow you to pull the outer piece of chicken wire toward the chicken wire on the box, and so compress the test product that is sandwiched between them, but still allow sound to pass.



:)

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Did you just have speaker playing music? Or did you play a propper dB?

Have purchased 10 of those sheets from jaycar. Will combine that with the dynamat I've got coming and hopefully will have a nice ride. Will let you know how it goes.

So are you takeing the fat Mat out or just continuing the lay out?

Will leave the fatmat in for now and just do the sections that I haven't done yet, which is the majority of the floor, except for the cargo area.
Edit: while the fatmat wasn't specificly designed for noise control, it has made a big difference to noise and vibrations, so until it falls off, I might just keep it in.

Fair enough. I was thinking about the fat Mat. It would probably be fine for the floor pan hay.. Not like it can fall further.. Lol
I might grab some dynamat for the firewall. Also thinking of that paint on stuff for the wheel arches.
Mate we'll have the quietest patrols ever..

Haha that's the plan. I fitted a 2.5" exhaust with a straight through muffler and took the family for a trip down to Canberra. Wife wasn't impressed, so I swapped the muffler for something quieter and will continue with the soundproofing. Especially as I'm taking them to qld at the end of the year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Westy's Accessories

Did you just have speaker playing music? Or did you play a propper dB?

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The dB im relating too is a basic measure of sound , so my dB meter tells me how loud a sound is in decibels.

The speaker i used was a subwoofer (under 400 Hz) because low frequencies are great at traveling through walls, so Bass can be the most annoying for anyone else not watching a movie , i.e your nieghbours. :wink:



I found high density products, performed best in my application, none that i used are suitable for car accoustics, so no point talking about then, but the test method/s are still very valid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Westy's Accessories

Something like these to would be the pick I think..
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=161074028668
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=360719797099

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I personally would not use the above products, anything not water proof your wasting your time and money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parksy

Found the jaycar stuff. At 4kg per m^2 and the price is very cheap so might be worth putting a couple of layers down. Very intrigued.
http://m.jaycar.com.au/m_productView.asp?ID=AX3680

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Now that looks very interesting and promising as a waterproof deadener, will have 2 look into that product some more :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NissanGQ4.2

I personally would not use the above products, anything not water proof your wasting your time and money.



Now that looks very interesting and promising as a waterproof deadener, will have 2 look into that product some more :)

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No need to be mean about it...
Lol
I guess it depends on where you use the products.
I'm waiting for a reply from the 2 joints to see if I can grab a sample.
Personally think both options will be fine in water, option one is a closed cell foam, what is seen from the outter it looks porous but water can't penetrate further..
Option 2 I'm still waiting on a reply.

Not been mean mate, just how I see it.....................if it doesn't withstand water and you can't pull it up easily with the carpet when it gets wet, 2 me its a waste of time and money.

Even if I didn't plan on doing a river crossing or bog holes I would still use something that is waterproof.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NissanGQ4.2

Not been mean mate, just how I see it.....................if it doesn't withstand water and you can't pull it up easily with the carpet when it gets wet, 2 me its a waste of time and money.

Even if I didn't plan on doing a river crossing or bog holes I would still use something that is waterproof.

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Yea for sure. I was wondering how it would go stuck to the back of the carpet??

Got the dynamat today and its allot heavier than the fatmat. Doesn't smell like asphalt either so I know it's a butyl product. It's very sticky compared to the fatmat and sticks very well, but doesn't form as easy as the fatmat. I find I can't use the handle end of a screw driver to form the stuff like I could with the fatmat, but my fingers did the job just fine. I did the rear floor section under the rear seats while they are out. Am waiting for the jaycar stuff and will line the floor with this stuff also.

Nice. Well sorta. You've just bashed my wallet a little more..

Yeah it's not exactly cheap, but tomorrow's drive to work will give me an indication of any improvement with this stuff. Here's hoping for deafening silence!

Do you think 100% coverage with the base was worth it? Or do you think this other blokes 25% coverage would obtain the same outcome?
But after your previous comments, dynamat is the better pick??

Yeah dynamat for the win! Absolutely. No I don't think absolute coverage is necessary. Maybe if you want the thermo blocking properties, but for vibration reduction it only needs minimal coverage to do the job.

Sorry, this their 4x4 water proof closed cell foam..
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=151094843053
I still think the jaycar stuff is a little cheaper but..