Hard starting 3 litre Common Rail

[Ontheroadagain]

Hi, we have a 2010 3 litre Common Rail Diesel with a slide on camper. We have experienced a few problems in the last 6 weeks. The following is a list of the work completed by Mechanics during this time. (We are travelling South from QLD to VIC, currently in Northern NSW).
Rocker cover replaced
Glow plugs and seals replaced
Clutch kit replaced
2nd hand Injector sealing cup replaced
Removed EGR blanking plate
Since the above work has been completed we are now having hard starting problems when engine is hot. It cranks longer than normal when it does finally start and intermittently will not start at all without using a starter spray into the air filter.
We had the battery and starter tested, both OK. Also performed common rail leak back test, all OK.
At this stage we are not sure the next move.
Any suggestions on a good Nissan Patrol Mechanic in NSW. Thanks for reading.

[MudRunnerTD]

Hi mate,

Was all that work done on the same day by the same mechanic? What was he chasing? I immediately went to a Glow Plug issue but it seems he has done that? If that was done chasing this issue then didnt fix it its disappointing. Especially if you then had to pay full price for the service that didnt fix the problem.

Having to use Starter spray in the air filter seems very Odd, especially on a CR Deisel. That really is an old Carby trick left over from the 1980s, it would not be on my list to fix this problem.. Im inclined to thing its a coincidence rather than a cure to be honest. If your hand primer on the fuel filter is hard then Fuel is not your problem so StartYaBastard should make no difference.

Do you have a little red LED Light in front of the driver up on the dash at the windscreen Line. Is it lit all the time? does it turn off or flash when the engine is running? This is the NATS (Nissan Anti-Theft System) and is connected to the Fuel cut-off Solenoid on the injector pump. It is triggered by an electrical connection of the Key to the outer ring of the ignition. It incorporates a silent Immobiliser. I wonder if this has an intermitent fault. Im not sure how to test it other than that Red LED but id hope that a Nissan Dealer or a decent Autor Elec could fault find that pretty quick.

Worth Noting, It a straight forward fix if the car is still running. It can be a bastard to fix once it dies completely. Get it checked. Do you have more than 1 Key for the car? Use the second key and see if it works. The problem could be in the Key. the ingition ring or the fuel solenoid on the back of the pump mate.

Definitely worth a look. Good luck. Please keep us updated.

[Ontheroadagain]

Thanks MudRunnerTD for your quick reply.
The original problem was a major oil leak from somewhere within the rocker cover area and at the same time the clutch started slipping. The mechanic did all the listed work over 3 days (waiting on parts). Before this work was completed, we had no issues starting.
As far as we know we don't have a red LED/NATS system installed. We have had the Patrol since 2019 and only ever used a standard silver key (not programmable)
We have noticed it seems to start of a morning (cold start) better than when it is hot. We have used the starter spray 3 or 4 times now after multiple cranks/attempts. As soon as we do a quick spray, it starts right up and idles and runs well afterwards. This is not a solution just a bandaid until we can hopefully find a good mechanic.

[BillsGU]

Is power getting to the glow plugs? Maybe he left a connection off or blew the glow plug fuse. Not too difficult to get a volt meter onto the glow plug rail and check for power.

[Ontheroadagain]

Yes BillsGU, we tested the voltage on the Glow plug rail and all good there. Thanks for your reply.

[MudRunnerTD]

Thanks MudRunnerTD for your quick reply.
The original problem was a major oil leak from somewhere within the rocker cover area and at the same time the clutch started slipping. The mechanic did all the listed work over 3 days (waiting on parts). Before this work was completed, we had no issues starting.
As far as we know we don't have a red LED/NATS system installed. We have had the Patrol since 2019 and only ever used a standard silver key (not programmable)
We have noticed it seems to start of a morning (cold start) better than when it is hot. We have used the starter spray 3 or 4 times now after multiple cranks/attempts. As soon as we do a quick spray, it starts right up and idles and runs well afterwards. This is not a solution just a bandaid until we can hopefully find a good mechanic.

Id be surprised if the car doesnt have the NATS, especially a CRD. You may not haave noticed the LED Light, it is positioned to be seen from outside teh car more than in the drivers seat.

Is the Priming Pump Hard or Soft when trying to start it? You may have an air leak in your fuel lines. Thsi could be at teh fuel filter housing or any of teh fuel lines running down th drivers side chassis rail.

[Ontheroadagain]

We tested the priming pump/bulb before, during and after starting and it remains soft. We then tried squeezing the pump 5 to 6 times and it did become hard for about 3 to 4 minutes and then became soft again.

We took another look at the dashboard for a light, but only see blanking covers on each side of the dash, see photo attached.

[Ontheroadagain]

See attached

[MudRunnerTD]

OK very surprised. That blanking plate is a surprise but it is what it is.

When the engine is Off you should be able to pump the hand pump to Hard, then walk away for a while and come back to check if it is still hard. I would consider removing and refitting the fuel filter and ensure it is not letting an air drip back in. This will allow the fuel to drain back to the tank and create a section of fuel tube to be empty. This would be a real bastard.

I had this problem while crossing the Madigan 12 years ago, cruising at idle through very challenging sections and the car would actually starve and cut out and be a real bastard to get going again. Cold i could prime on the pump and get it going, driving with revs and it was fine, at idle it could not keep up with the air leak and would drain back. My problem was with a TD42T so a little different but could be replicated in your car.

It turned out for me it was the hard fuel line on top of the rear spring tower had split by a rock and letting air in. My GQ has an extra glass fuel bowl and i ahve seen a Drip Back air leak in the glass bowl because the fuel filter O ring was not seated properly. remove and refit to check.

[Cuppa]

If the primer won't stay hard I'd say an air leak is just about certain. Where that leak is, is the issue. What is odd about this though is the pattern of not starting when hot, but starting ok when cold. In my experience (not with our Patrol) an air leak in the fuel supply tended to occur when not running (eg. overnight) making starts in the morning more difficult , but with the prime remaining better once in use. I wonder if an air leak around the 'Injector sealing cup' (whatever that is) which was replaced would allow the primer pump to go soft??

[Ontheroadagain]

Thanks MudRunner TD and Cuppa, We had it in to the mechanic and he did a leak test on the injectors. 1 an 3 had very little in the test tube, 2 and 4 were half full after only about 6 seconds. So we are replacing the injectors and hoping for the best.

[Cuppa]

Thanks MudRunner TD and Cuppa, We had it in to the mechanic and he did a leak test on the injectors. 1 an 3 had very little in the test tube, 2 and 4 were half full after only about 6 seconds. So we are replacing the injectors and hoping for the best.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[BigRAWesty]

We tested the priming pump/bulb before, during and after starting and it remains soft. We then tried squeezing the pump 5 to 6 times and it did become hard for about 3 to 4 minutes and then became soft again.

We took another look at the dashboard for a light, but only see blanking covers on each side of the dash, see photo attached.100% air in lines.
Replace your fuel filter and get a new rubber seal and take care installing it.
Massive issue if rushed on not done properly as it would bleed air in.
Once hot and all slightly more expanded your issue is exasibated..

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

[Ontheroadagain]

Hi everyone, Well we had the injectors replaced a couple of days ago and the hard starting issues seemed to be completely resolved. Now it starts immediately wether it is hot or cold. My limited understanding is that the 2 and 4 injectors were bypassing enough fuel to cause insufficient rail pressure to start the engine.

[Cuppa]

Great news! Now back to enjoying your travels. :bananadancing: