2005 zd30 into a 2003 patrol

[Thevvy]

HI Guys

Had a misadventure recently where a glow plug tip came off, damaged an injector and burnt a hole in #2 piston.

Thought I had won the lottery, when I was able to source a used motor for a couple of grand. Was even able to to take it for a drive before old mate pulled it out of his car in preparation to fitting a BMW m57.

Pulled my motor out, and fitted the new one. Started piece of cake and idled quietly and smoothly.

However ........ test drive revealed serious limp mode issues at anything from 8psi boost to 18psi boost.

If I control boost with the throttle it will run for a bit longer without limp.

Checked all fuel lines for leaks. Checked hand pump on filter seems OK.

Tested inter-cooler for leaks ... all ok.

Replaced MAF with genuine Nissan one (ouch) no different, but I now have a genuine Nissan spare MAF.

Was told today that the motor is a 09/2005 motor and the injector pump is incompatible for my ECU ( that is a 04/2005 as I fried my 2003 one .... long story).

The other thing is the donor vehicle was a manual, and mine is an auto, and I don't know if that would affect anything.

I have a new injector pump on my shonky motor that I could transplant, but I would prefer to keep that with the other motor if I can, as it has only done about 50,000kms and having scoped the cylinder it appears to be salvageable with just a new piston and rings.

Any help I can get from anyone would be greatly appreciated, as I ready to burn it!!

[mudski]

Has the EGR been blocked off on the Donor motor? Get a Dawes or Tilix valve and set the boost with that and see how it goes.

[Thevvy]

G'day Mudski

Yeah mate, that has all been done. New aircleaner, new fuel filter, new Nissan MAF (ouch), boost set to 8psi and still getting limp mode.

Set Dawes to 18psi, still get limp mode ....BUT .... boost stays at 16psi ..... S'got me buggered.

Looks like I will have to change injector pumps after all, bugger it!

Thanks Mudski

[Bidja]

So you set Dawes at a Max Boost for 8psi and you still had limp??

Need to set Dawes at boost (say 15 psi max) under load / hauling at say 3000rpm up hill in 3rd gear. No good setting Dawes with say a compressor to get ball to lift off seat_made this comment as you say at
Set Dawes to 18psi, still get limp mode ....BUT .... boost stays at 16psi

Try unwinding Dawes 1/2 turn from where you are getting max B 16psi..

Do you have a scan gauge_any error codes?

[Thevvy]

yeah mate ... did all that .... doesn't make any difference at all, except as I said, when set at 18psi still had 16psi in limp mode. Haven't got a scan gauge, but hooked up to a laptop ... no error codes, but MAF voltage at idle is 2.4v, at 2000rpm is 3.2v, at 3000rpm is 3.8v, and at 4000rpm is 4.8v.
Brand new MAF fitted for similar results, maybe a couple of 1/10's difference. Tried a $35 MAF from eBay ... much the same results except at 4000rpm where it was 4.4v.

09/2005 MAF has 5 pins, while mine, 2003 has only 4 pins...... almost straw clutching time and change injector pump over from my broken motor.

Frustrating!!

[Bidja]

Your MAF voltage seems a bit high. Understand typical MAF voltage at idle for DI is between 1.6-2.0V. There is a resistor mod to MAF signal voltage to artificially reduce the MAF voltage seen by the ECU post blocking EGR to avoid limp_Have a search for this.

Understand that max MAF signal voltage for ZD30 is <4.5v.

Not sure what MAF sensor you are using but I would recommend using the original MAF (4 pin type) being compatible with your ECU.

I run a 08 CRD (5 pin MAF) and have been using an electronic device (Magic Box) to control the VNT vanes for MAF/MAP control. As part of this setup I had to ascertain what the MAF signal voltage was at idle.

For example my MAF signal voltage at idle is nom 2.1V cold and 1.9V warm and does not exceed 4.5V at 4500RPM.

If you are using the 5 pin MAF you can use the attached diagram I put together to measure the MAF SIGNAL voltage.

Others may have a better handle on the max MAF voltage threshold against RPM (limp avoidance).

phdv61 may drop in and help out.

[mudski]

G'day Mudski

Yeah mate, that has all been done. New aircleaner, new fuel filter, new Nissan MAF (ouch), boost set to 8psi and still getting limp mode.

Set Dawes to 18psi, still get limp mode ....BUT .... boost stays at 16psi ..... S'got me buggered.

Looks like I will have to change injector pumps after all, bugger it!

Thanks Mudski

Remove the EGR block first then see what happens. The later motors are know for chucking a hissy fit when the EGR is blocked. How can you set the Dawes to 18psi if the boost stays at 16psi? Did you set the Dawes at 18psi form the old engine? If no and from the new engine and you still only see 16psi then you have a boost leak.

[Thevvy]

Hey Mudski

How ya goin?

Mate, I set the boost by taking the car for a drive and adjusting as necessary ... time consuming, but better in the long run, I reckon. The 16psi occurs when the motor goes into limp mode and boost is dropped.(The EGT drops to well below 100 C.) My old motor when it hit limp, would go down to about 6 or 8psi.

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that a pump transplant is gunna be my only way out.

But I aim to try everything else before I do that. Local bloke suggested a new ECU and wiring loom, but that scares the crap outa me.

Local Nissan dealer advised that the pump, ecu and loom were changed in about mid to late 2004 and the pump won't be compatible with my Trol.

Mate, thanks for the input. Appreciate it, and I'll let you know the outcome one way or the other.

Cheers cobber.

[mudski]

Remove the egr block first. It may or may not help but a lot easier to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bidja]

Some DIs are known to limp at 16psi hauling. Yeah I use to run 22psi (CRD) stock ECU without limp up until I started to haul up hill. I can run 30psi if I choose (CRD) remap.

Do yourself a favour and try reducing max boost _ back off Dawes boost controller in 1/4 - 1/2 turn increments and see how goes..

[Thevvy]

G'day Bidja

Mate, tried all of that to no avail .... think I'm gunna ring Zerky in Lincoln tomorrow and book it in to get the pumps swapped. Don't think I've got the patience or the motivation to do it myself at this stage.

Thanks for your help cobber, and I will let you know the outcome.

Cheers

[Bidja]

Try unblocking the EFR assy as Mark suggested _ taking out the blanking plate. Costly doing the pump path if it high MAF signal volts being the cause. All the best mate

[mudski]

Some DIs are known to limp at 16psi hauling. Yeah I use to run 22psi (CRD) stock ECU without limp up until I started to haul up hill. I can run 30psi if I choose (CRD) remap.

Do yourself a favour and try reducing max boost _ back off Dawes boost controller in 1/4 - 1/2 turn increments and see how goes..

Yep my old DI limped at 16psi. After doing the MAF housing mod no more limp, ever.

[Thevvy]

Thanks Bidja. Tried that already ... no different. I am going to try a real bodgy workaround, by bypassing the MAF with a spare filter assembly I have laying around. 32mm hose from a K&N filter from a VW buggy, into spare silicon intake hose near turbo.

Hopefully, give me enough usable power to be able to drive it the 700kms to Adelaide to a specialist tuner and have it sorted professionally on a dyno.

Worst case scenario is to limp the 30kms into Lincoln and get my mate to do the job with the injector pump. $500 cash sounded pretty good to me.

[Thevvy]

Hey there Mudski & Bidja

Well I've done some bloody bodgy shit in my 72 years, but as far as cars go, I think I have just won the gold medal of bodgyness!

I run the 11/4" fitting and tube from the air cleaner outlet (prior to the MAF) and down to the bend close to the turbo. Ran well with no limp but gutless.

Run 1'' line the same and BOOM!! Jackpot!! No limp, boost at 16psi goes like the clappers.

Hooked up the laptop, and checked MAF readings ... idle at 750rpm was 1.8v. 2000 rpm was 2.3v, 3000rpm was 3.6v and 4000rpm was 4.1v.

Reckon I might just leave it as it is! Be a bit embarrassing if I ever take it to a garage, but I'll leave that until it happens!

Cobbers, thanks for all of your help and advice. Really appreciated.

I can't remember who it was that was talking about "Magic Boxes", but I would like some more info if you could drop me a PM.

Thanks again!!

[Bidja]

Those MAF voltages u achieved are good, pretty much same as my CRD and should/would not differ greatly to DI. My MAF voltages would sit nominally 0.2-0.3 above yours but I also run a Procharge stage 3 high flow turbo and 4" thru airbox / 3" to turbo & FMIC.

Magic Box was developed (originally for the ZD30 DI) and is produced by a chap in France phdv61 (Phil), and he approached me back in DEC 20 to trial it with CRD along with another fellow in Aus. It is a very smart bit of kit for example it can adjust the MAF voltage seen by the ECU/ECM to avoid limp. Simply it adjusts/limits the MAP absolute pressure measured against the PWM% to control the VNT vane opening to provide max air flow into the cylinders at a given MAP (boost) and and can provide for much improved low down torque (provides for improved driveability). There are 16 adjustable MAP/PWM settings (16 couples) that limits MAP Abs B and the PWM settings to provide for adjustable control of the VNT vanes. This does away with the sudden opening of Tillix or Dawes opening when the target boost is achieved and provides for continual opening of the vanes as boost increases.

Have a read:
https://www.patrol4x4.com/threads/vnt-turbo-the-magic-box-installation-and-setting-thread.413782/

[Thevvy]

Thanks Bidja

For an Old fart who did his apprenticeship on FC thru to HK Holden's, sort of a little confusing, although with a bit of reading and talking I will probably come to understand it a lot more. If I was a little younger, I would love to rebuild a shorty Landcruiser from about 1978 to 1980 vintage. Can understand them really well. HaHa.

Thanks a lot for your help.

It was really appreciated, and if ever you find your way onto the Eyre Peninsula in SA, I would love to catch up with you.

Cheers mate

Spriggsy

[Bidja]

Thevvy well not doing bad for an old fart mate, would guess I started my F&M apprenticeship just as you finished yours. Commenced mine on the tools in 1971 @ 17 yrs old.

The old grey motor was my first (FC wagon that grew into a RED mounted up).

MB a bit over the top initially but like most new gets easier _ Initially a bit daunting when you realize that there is a need to cut into the ECU/ECM harness. But comes together.

[Thevvy]

Thanks Bidja

Take care, stay safe and keep the little round black things on the bottom.

[Thevvy]

G'Day again Cobbers

The saga of the limp mode issues is FIXED!

After many phone calls, and receiving much advice to do everything from installing a new injector pump to changing the wiring loom I spoke to a contact in Melbourne who referred me to BAET (Border Automotive, Engineering and Tuning) in Lavington near Albury-Wodonga.

Long story short, rang and spoke to owner, Jamie Knobel, and sent him my ECU for a remap.

It arrived back today and I fitted it to the car. Instructions were to return air intake to standard (remove my bodgy fix bypassing the MAF) and adjust the dawes to set max boost at 20psi, and adjust needle valve so there was less than 2psi fluctuation.

That done, took the 'Trol for a drive 35kms into Pt Lincoln up & down hills and a few flat stretches.

WOW! just WOW!

The difference was chalk & cheese. Unbelievable! Goes like nothing I've driven (by way of 4x4's). good power & torque from the get go. EGT's rose reasonably quickly under full power acceleration until they hit 400c then hovered around there. Lift the right foot a little, boost drops back to 16 - 18psi and EGT's drop quickly down to 300 - 350.

Cruise on the flats at about 95 kms/hr resulted in 8 - 14 psi and EGT's around 250 -300.

Turned on cruise control, and hills that used to change me back to third ..... didn't! Marginal increase in boost pressure and very little change in EGT's.

It is a different car to drive, and is smooth and responsive around town.

I pulled the ECU out and posted it to Jamie on 30th July and it was back with me on Thursday 12th August. Pretty spectacular, given that it takes 6-10 days for a letter posted in Pt Lincoln, 35kms away to get to me!

And do you know the best part?

$525 including postage.

I can't recommend BAET enough!!

Stay safe and well everyone.

Spriggsy

[Thevvy]

Final update on GU remap. Car is going awesomely!
Now loves sitting on 105kmh at 2300rpm, EGT's around 250C to 350C, engine temps sit on 80C, oil and transmission temps are <60C
Averaging around 14 to 15/100kms at 105kph, and 15 - 16 /100kms at 90 - 95 kmh
Blows coal if I plant it from standing start until boost kicks in, but normal starts no smoke at all
Best thing I ever did. Limp mode is non existent up to and including 20psi
Thanks to all for suggestions and help during my tribulations.
Take care, and stay healthy and safe during these troubled times.
Cheers
Spriggsy