ATF in transfer case?

[pollenface]

I have just purchased a 2008 ZD30 CRD patrol wagon with the 4spd auto. I want to give it a thorough service first up including changing the auto transmission oil/filter.

I read something in a manual about not mixing the auto gearbox oil & transfer case oil. I'm presuming this means to use the same oil in both boxes.

I was thinking of getting a few bottles of Gulf Western Syn-TS trans fluid. Would that be suitable in the transfer case?

[PeeBee]

I think you should re- read the manual. If the transfer case is filled with ATF from new I would be highly surprised - more like a gearbox 80/90 grade. I think the comment might relate to not putting gearbox oil in the ATF?

[nipagu7]

patrols with auto locking front hubs use atf in the transfere box to stop the hubs engaging on their own when not in 4x4 . the cab chasiss patrols that have manual locking hubs don't have this problem and use the same oil as the manual gearbox

[jff45]

I believe the thinking is that a poor seal between the auto and the transfer could introduce gear oil into the auto with costly results.
I’ve been running synthetic trans fluid in my transfer case since I bought the Patrol in 2007.

[PeeBee]

patrols with auto locking front hubs use atf in the transfere box to stop the hubs engaging on their own when not in 4x4 . the cab chasiss patrols that have manual locking hubs don't have this problem and use the same oil as the manual gearbox

Sorry, I am not doubting you, but cant quite see the mechanical connection between the transfer case and the fwh? Can you try to explain that a bit? They seem totally different 'unattached' devices?

[PeeBee]

I believe the thinking is that a poor seal between the auto and the transfer could introduce gear oil into the auto with costly results.
I’ve been running synthetic trans fluid in my transfer case since I bought the Patrol in 2007.

John, that's interesting for sure. I would not have thought the oil properties for an ATF would be suitable for a gear loading application - obviously they are especially if you have been doing this for close to 13 yrs! Learnt something new today.

[Plasnart]

John, that's interesting for sure. I would not have thought the oil properties for an ATF would be suitable for a gear loading application - obviously they are especially if you have been doing this for close to 13 yrs! Learnt something new today.

Yeah i was surprised also first time I did my oils. Double and triple checked before I put the ATF into the transfer case. Was still a bit dubious but has never had any problems. There's a thread here somewhere where mudnut nicely explained the auto hub issue with gearbox oil in the TC. Somebody was having problems with his autos engaging sporadically. He was using gearbox oil in the TC and that ended up being his problem.

[MB]

Sorry to butt in good blokes, surely this must be an auto transmission to transfer case only issue?
Used to drive old FJ cruisers and they suffered similar gearbox <> transfer case seal issues kindly mentioned as what may possibly be happening here?
Honestly querying too as I’ve always kept the Mrs GU manual wagon and transfer case same oils with its auto hubs up front, should I change my transfer case oil to tranny oil ASAP before our big trip?


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[Plasnart]

Sorry to butt in good blokes, surely this must be an auto transmission to transfer case only issue?
Used to drive old FJ cruisers and they suffered similar gearbox <> transfer case seal issues kindly mentioned as what may possibly be happening here?
Honestly querying too as I’ve always kept the Mrs GU manual wagon and transfer case same oils with its auto hubs up front, should I change my transfer case oil to tranny oil ASAP before our big trip?


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Check your manual mate. It'll say ATF for the tranny case. But if you haven't had issues running gearbox oil I wouldn't think that was a high priority rectification.

[MB]

Cheers Plassy mate!
I’ll chuck up 23 more posts and download soon :-)
Is it possible we haven’t experienced any issues due to usually slow mountain pace and not higher speed say sands?


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[Plasnart]

Cheers Plassy mate!
I’ll chuck up 23 more posts and download soon :-)
Is it possible we haven’t experienced any issues due to usually slow mountain pace and not higher speed say sands?


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You know me mate. What sort of tech expert have you mistaken me for? :D

[MB]

Me too mate, honestly and truly cannot nuffy me understand but truly willing to find out how a manual gearbox ad transfer case conected can somehow affect either my same vintage utes manual hubs or our family wagon auto hubs?
There must be more to this for sure [emoji106][emoji106]


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[Plasnart]

Me too mate, honestly and truly cannot nuffy me understand but truly willing to find out how a manual gearbox ad transfer case conected can somehow affect either my same vintage utes manual hubs or our family wagon auto hubs?
There must be more to this for sure [emoji106][emoji106]


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It's all in the viscosity I'm led to believe. Keep it low and don't turn your transfer case into a torque converter.

Sorry think this thread has taken a wayward turn from post 1?

[MB]

But don’t you have to move that second sneaky gearstick from 2WD <> 4WD H/L choice to make the front tail shaft spin old school?


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[Plasnart]

But don’t you have to move that second sneaky gearstick from 2WD <> 4WD H/L choice to make the front tail shaft spin old school?


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Enough friction/resistance through the TC tricks the auto hubs just like a lever pull I understand. Manual hubs don't listen of course.

[MB]

So the front tailshaft starts spinning by itself even when selected 2WD ?
This almost has to be a 2008++ elecy thing surely?


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[Plasnart]

So the front tailshaft starts spinning by itself even when selected 2WD ?
This almost has to be a 2008++ elecy thing surely?


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It's a mechanical transfer of torque I believe they're trying to prevent through the TC with the ATF specification for auto hubs only.

[MB]

Enough friction/resistance through the TC tricks the auto hubs just like a lever pull I understand. Manual hubs don't listen of course.

Okily Dokily, hopefully understand re-reading now, will wrap a long tailed zippy tie around her front tailshaft and see if we get some noise complaints tomorrow [emoji106][emoji106]


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[PeeBee]

Enough friction/resistance through the TC tricks the auto hubs just like a lever pull I understand. Manual hubs don't listen of course.

Plassy, what actually triggers or moves the auto hub from disengaged to engaged - hydraulic fluid - I have the manual hubs on the old GQ, so never struck this or even had the need to look into auto hubs.

[Plasnart]

Plassy, what actually triggers or moves the auto hub from disengaged to engaged - hydraulic fluid - I have the manual hubs on the old GQ, so never struck this or even had the need to look into auto hubs.

Got no idea PB. Hopefully someone with better tech knowledge than me can chip in.

[MB]

Just dusted off the old Gregory’s Y61/GU 1998-2014 manual.http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/12/175.jpg

Chapter 7 Part A
Manual transmissions

Model FS5R50B
TB45E, TB48DE, ZD30DDTi, TD42
SAE 75W-90 GL4
3.5 Litres
&
Model FS5R30A
RD28ETi
SAE 80W-90 GL4
5.1 Litres

Chapter 7 Part B
Automatic transmission

Model RE4R03A = Four-speed
Nissan Matic D or Dexron III
Approximately 12.0 Litres
&
Model RE5R05A = Five speed
Nissan Matic J
Approximately 11.0 Litres

Chapter 7 Part C
Transfer case
Model TX12A
Fitted to all models
Nissan Matic C or SAE 75W-90 GL4
1.9 Litres

Certainly is weird that they specify both a tranny “or” gear fluid with no other explanation throughout Part C.

Will have to scour Part B I guess?







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[jff45]

John, that's interesting for sure. I would not have thought the oil properties for an ATF would be suitable for a gear loading application - obviously they are especially if you have been doing this for close to 13 yrs! Learnt something new today.

The planetary gears in the auto trans take a fair bit of loading. I'm rebuilding an RE4 auto at the moment that has done 326k kms and, although the clutches are well worn, the planetary gears look perfect.

[mudnut]

A more experienced and wiser member explained it all a very long time ago. Early GQs ran gearbox oil in their Transfer cases.(Hence the listing calling for Gear Box Oil) . Mark, please check the year of publication. It was found that the shaft running through the Transfer case could cause the chain to rotate, making the front drive train turn. It was more prominent in colder weather. My '94 runs Auto Trans Fluid, but has manual hubs.

I would expect auto hubs to try and engage if the heavier gearbox oil was used.

[pollenface]

Thanks for your replies. I did a bit of reading here too and it sounds satisfactory.
https://www.patrol4x4.com/threads/transfer-case-oil.30931/

[MB]

Sounds fair thanks Craig mate, will dump the gear oil and take the safer second option for her auto hubs[emoji106][emoji106]


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[mudnut]

This is from the downloaded GQ manual:

[mudnut]

And this is the GU manual.

[nipagu7]

yes . it's a viscosity thing , the friction of the free spinning gear in the TC spins the front driveshaft /diff and engages front hubs . people hear noises comeing from hubs and complains to mr nissan . mr nissan says use lower viscosity atf and viola!! no more warranty complaints . atf being a very good quality oil does the job just fine , just a bit more expencive

[mudnut]

Well this is going to be a bit of an experiment: I found out today the mechanic who changed out the gearbox and transfer case used gear oil in the transfer case.

I drained and filled the case with the recommended ATF. It will be interesting to see if the noises will die down, the gear shift when cold is easier or the oil seals will start leaking.

[mudski]

Well this is going to be a bit of an experiment: I found out today the mechanic who changed out the gearbox and transfer case used gear oil in the transfer case.

I drained and filled the case with the recommended ATF. It will be interesting to see if the noises will die down, the gear shift when cold is easier or the oil seals will start leaking.

Do you run auto hubs on your GQ Craig? Cold gear shifting won't change one bit when switching transfer case oils. Or am I reading this wrong?

[mudnut]

Just wondering if the thick oil has been dragging in components, that's all.

[mudski]

Just wondering if the thick oil has been dragging in components, that's all.

Righto. The transfer case is not connected to the shift mechanism of a manual gearbox in any way so changing transfer oil will do nothing in respect to cold gear shifting as I mentioned. With my gearbox is pushing 450 thousand k's I use a 75/90 oil and the nulon smooth shift additive. In my case, this works well for me.