Interesting Lithium Battery on sale

[PeeBee]

Saw this today from ITech, Lithium crank battery, 1300cca, 8kg, similar price as an Optima - interested to see how they handle the under bonnet heat, also keen to see how they rate against the deep cycle lithiums which are far more expensive from memory.

79641

Special at Perth 4wd show

[Cuppa]

Some very mixed views on them.

https://www.caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=78121&hilit=itechworld

[Hodge]

I've been eyeing off their 120ah lithium for ages now. That thing is a beast weighing half of my current AGM battery.
The thing charges up in a flash and stays at or above 13V forever. Equivalent to a 200ah agm, so they say. My work mate who I occasional go away with has one and the thing impressed me big time.
But at $849 , its going to wait I reckon... Nothing wrong with my current AGM thanks to Yetis beast.
In saying this I've no doubt their cranker variation will be of same quality/performance.

https://itechworld.com.au/collections/lithium-batteries/products/120ah-12-volt-lithium-battery

[mudnut]

Up to 8% better fuel economy. Is this a "Snake Oil" claim, or what? Interesting to see what batteries vehicle manufacturers use, if that is the case.

[PeeBee]

I've been eyeing off their 120ah lithium for ages now. That thing is a beast weighing half of my current AGM battery.
The thing charges up in a flash and stays at or above 13V forever. Equivalent to a 200ah agm, so they say. My work mate who I occasional go away with has one and the thing impressed me big time.
But at $849 , its going to wait I reckon... Nothing wrong with my current AGM thanks to Yetis beast.
In saying this I've no doubt their cranker variation will be of same quality/performance.

https://itechworld.com.au/collections/lithium-batteries/products/120ah-12-volt-lithium-battery

That battery is different to the one advertised. The one for $399 has a CCA of 1300, yet the deep cycle unit - I presume - speaks around the 250amp draw. Surprised at the cost difference, construction must be different as well. to get the high current release. No mention about ability to deep cycle so a crank only unit. Weight reduction caught my eye first.

[PeeBee]

Up to 8% better fuel economy. Is this a "Snake Oil" claim, or what? Interesting to see what batteries vehicle manufacturers use, if that is the case.

I think anyone claiming a weight advantage will link it to a fuel consumption reduction. Its a common statement I think, so common I doubt anyone checks anyway. If i buy 13 of them I can start sell fuel out the back of the truck because it will be running out the tank - is that right - must be true?

[stevemc181]

Up to 8% better fuel economy. Is this a "Snake Oil" claim, or what? Interesting to see what batteries vehicle manufacturers use, if that is the case.

This from their website:

Being Lithium, the voltage is held higher and longer than a lead acid battery. This means your vehicle will supply a stronger spark to burn fuel more efficiently, giving more power for the same fuel. Increasing fuel efficiency, giving better mileage and savings of up to 8%. Once the fuel is burnt more efficiently the exhaust emissions are decreased and this is better for the environment.

What a load of garbage, this alone would put me off buying anything from these guys!

[mudnut]

This from their website:

Being Lithium, the voltage is held higher and longer than a lead acid battery. This means your vehicle will supply a stronger spark to burn fuel more efficiently, giving more power for the same fuel. Increasing fuel efficiency, giving better mileage and savings of up to 8%. Once the fuel is burnt more efficiently the exhaust emissions are decreased and this is better for the environment.

What a load of garbage, this alone would put me off buying anything from these guys!

You are right as the vehicle has a voltage regulator anyway. Energy is energy. If you take (example only) 1000 watts to crank the starter, it will take 1000 watts plus efficiency losses from the engine to recharge the battery. And it may be a weight saving that might add up to only $10-$20 a year.

[PeeBee]

You are right as the vehicle has a voltage regulator anyway. Energy is energy. If you take (example only) 1000 watts to crank the starter, it will take 1000 watts plus efficiency losses from the engine to recharge the battery. And it may be a weight saving that might add up to only $10-$20 a year.

Come on guys, you cant be serious? The world is flat I read on the internet, world peace just around the corner, global warming will see the oceans rise 10m by Xmas - this must be real. Dont be so dismissive, its a great buy and will help to save the planet, especially when you factor in all the emission it took to develop and then manufacture the battery.
I am so convinced i am going to take the photo of the battery and stick it to my dashboard, so I can get some of the aura effect without paying for it.

[10G]

I've been eyeing off their 120ah lithium for ages now. That thing is a beast weighing half of my current AGM battery.
The thing charges up in a flash and stays at or above 13V forever. Equivalent to a 200ah agm, so they say. My work mate who I occasional go away with has one and the thing impressed me big time.
But at $849 , its going to wait I reckon... Nothing wrong with my current AGM thanks to Yetis beast.
In saying this I've no doubt their cranker variation will be of same quality/performance.

https://itechworld.com.au/collections/lithium-batteries/products/120ah-12-volt-lithium-battery

That's not a bad price for a 120AH lithium.

I still feel uneasy paying that much for a battery, simply based upon the warranty term. $850 for something with a 3 year warranty. You can by 100AH AGMs that have 2 year warranties for $300 or so bucks.

I reckon if the product (battery in this case) is so great why doesn't it have a longer warranty period? It's that old thing, if you have confidence in your product you'll warranty it for a longer period of time.

I think we're still paying for the new technology.

[Hodge]

https://www.gorv.com.au/lithium-batteries-fail/

[the evil twin]

Only people who are disappointed or have fails/poor experiences blog/post on the 'net.
For example no-one looking on the net would ever buy a Patrol cause there are 1'000's of reports of the front wheels wobbling.
In old mates case he was expecting similar performance to lead acid after the alarms and Lith doesn't work that way... it holds up and then falls off the cliff.
Cordless power tools are a great example... on Lith batteries they run normally for almost all the battery capacity then give you a tad bit of warning they are about to die and moments later will be flat as a shit carters hat

Everything has advantages/disadvantages and can also be installed or used incorrectly or chosen for totally the wrong application.

Imagine your Cordless Drill being powered by lead acid tech instead of Lithium.
It would weigh twice as much, the charge would last approx 1/4 the time per use and the Battery would be shot after about a month.

For deep cycle apps (eg power tools), voltage sensitive devices (eg Waeco Fridges), weight, space, discharge cycle life, high current use (jump packs the size of a good book can lie around for 12 months but will start a 6.5 litre engine), cost over lifetime or any combination of these then Lithium wins with daylight second.

Lead Acid wins for initial outlay, ease of management and suits occasional short discharge and maintenance charging applications (yes, I know you can get deep cycle but lead acid tech is not ideal and you get, what, 50% of the capacity as useable if your lucky).

At current prices I would probably buy a Lith Cranker only if I needed to save space or weight but for almost anything else then its Lith first and daylight second if installed and managed correctly

[10G]

Only people who are disappointed or have fails/poor experiences blog/post on the 'net.
For example no-one looking on the net would ever buy a Patrol cause there are 1'000's of reports of the front wheels wobbling.
In old mates case he was expecting similar performance to lead acid after the alarms and Lith doesn't work that way... it holds up and then falls off the cliff.
Cordless power tools are a great example... on Lith batteries they run normally for almost all the battery capacity then give you a tad bit of warning they are about to die and moments later will be flat as a shit carters hat

Everything has advantages/disadvantages and can also be installed or used incorrectly or chosen for totally the wrong application.

Imagine your Cordless Drill being powered by lead acid tech instead of Lithium.
It would weigh twice as much, the charge would last approx 1/4 the time per use and the Battery would be shot after about a month.

For deep cycle apps (eg power tools), voltage sensitive devices (eg Waeco Fridges), weight, space, discharge cycle life, high current use (jump packs the size of a good book can lie around for 12 months but will start a 6.5 litre engine), cost over lifetime or any combination of these then Lithium wins with daylight second.

Lead Acid wins for initial outlay, ease of management and suits occasional short discharge and maintenance charging applications (yes, I know you can get deep cycle but lead acid tech is not ideal and you get, what, 50% of the capacity as useable if your lucky).

At current prices I would probably buy a Lith Cranker only if I needed to save space or weight but for almost anything else then its Lith first and daylight second if installed and managed correctly

At least if you had daylight second, you wouldn't have to run any lights at night.

[Hodge]

I think we're still paying for the new technology.

Well, thats exactly where the price is. It's new, latest and greatest, so lets inflate the $ tag. It's like that with everything I suppose... Some people jump on it, others wait.

I like what I've seen and how it performs (the 120AH itech). I have a 110ah AGM sitting in the rear , and this lithium put it to shame in so many aspects. Not even worth comparing.
With all my "current" (no pun intended) amp draws at the rear, it'll be lucky to suck 10A out of the battery. Thats the fridge, the lights and phone charged (USB) plugged in.
This guy had a larger fridge, similar lights, and inverter and after 2 days, and one night the lithium is happily sitting in the 13s, while I was in low 12s off-load, and hitting mid 11s when fridge kicked in, begging for a charge.
While not yet, its got to be accepted that it is the future.
EvilTwin nailed it. It's the interweb. In nearly all, cases it's the negative that gets posted.

[Cuppa]

While not yet, its got to be accepted that it is the future.


Lithium (LiFePo4) is not the future, it's already here. The point though is that this Itechworld offering at the price is fairly close to 'too good to be true' . It is far cheaper than most, if not all, similar offerings with claims made which largely say what customers want to hear, but with little to no evidence to back up those claims.

Whilst there is little doubt that Lithium has significant advantages over lead based batteries, the hope they will become increasingly popular to the point that prices drop to a similar level to current lead based offerings (Wet/AGM/Gel) is probably unlikely to eventuate. LiiFePo4 batteries have been around for close to decade now. The reason I suspect they will never take over from Lead is that a) Lithium is a less available resource & b) the chances of a more sustainable & effective battery type being developed are high.

Not all the advantages of LiFePo4 batteries when compared to relative cost will necessarily be an advantage for the user. It's a horses for courses thing, & if they stack up sufficiently then you become a current Lithium purchaser & pay the cost.

If my 3 AGM batteries died tomorrow I would seriously consider replacing them with Lithium even though I don't need their high current delivery or their faster charging ability (given sufficient charging resources), but I would dearly like the weight savings. In my case that would represent a cost of perhaps 2.5 times the cost of replacing with more AGM's - a significant amount to pay to reduce battery weight by around 2/3rds. Hence 'consider' as opposed to 'would'. If I wanted to run high current appliances & had room to double the wattage I have in solar panels (which of course would weigh as much as that saved by going to Lithium) & had the room to carry those high current appliances (eg, a coffee machine, toaster, hairdryer & air con) then I would have already made the switch (finances allowing).

As it is, Lithium , in my mind makes far more sense in larger vehicles - motorhomes, caravans, expedition trucks, than it does in the average 4wd - except for the weight savings.

However you can rest assured that if/when I do change to Lithium it most certainly wont be one which utilises an unknown Battery Management system, spruiked by self professed experts with no credentials to back up such claims, & offering only a 3 year warranty. At the 'discounted' price of $849 (In all the time they have been selling those Itechworld batteries I havent heard of one single person paying the $1100+ price they claim it is discounted from!) I'd expect more.

Just to be clear I don't doubt that these Itechworld batteries work, & whilst working do display advantages over Lead batteries, but I have significant doubts as to how long they will continue to work for. Not a gamble with good odds in my view.

For anyone in SA & interested in pursuing Lithium you might find it interesting to duck into Mannum to have a yak with my old mate Terry about 'drop in replacement lithium technology'. http://www.t1lithium.com.au/ He's been involved with lithium batteries longer than most.