Anyone using snatch rings?

[10G]

Instead of a snatch block, the new thing is a snatch ring, like this:

78616

Look like a damn good idea.

[PeeBee]

Never heard of this - how is it used? Do you thread a sling thru the centre then the rope from the winch runs around the outside or is this some sort of joiner for two snatch straps?

[Plasnart]

That looks pretty snazzy mate. Didn't know about them until you prompted me on to YouTube to find out. My only question would be how would the soft shackle anchoring it fare up to the friction heat or wear of the rotating ring? Could that be something of concern, if the soft shackle is weakened by use and lets go?

[10G]

That looks pretty snazzy mate. Didn't know about them until you prompted me on to YouTube to find out. My only question would be how would the soft shackle anchoring it fare up to the friction heat or wear of the rotating ring? Could that be something of concern, if the soft shackle is weakened by use and lets go?

Yeah I don't know. From what I know they're new on the scene. They don't have much market penetration yet, I can only find them in the UK and just starting to come out in the US. Maxtrax are one of the bigger mobs putting them out, but only first in the US as far as I know.

[mudnut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blgt28NTnCU

You would have to be really careful with grime on the winch rope and ring. I have seen a winch rope start to fray after a few dusty uses.

[PeeBee]

Nope, not keen. The rope will get abraided and its rare for a clean line also, so my decision would be to stay with the tried and tested snatch block that will work in sandy muddy conditions without detriment to the synthetic rope. No issue using the knotted rope sling, have 3 of them myself, but would not expose the rope to a rubbing condition like they show.

[Brissieboy]

They are only for use with soft shackles of course. I also have concerns about abrasion and friction as well as how (or if) they will remain aligned with the haul line.

[MudRunnerTD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Blgt28NTnCU

You would have to be really careful with grime on the winch rope and ring. I have seen a winch rope start to fray after a few dusty uses.

Nah that is a rippa!! Watch that video gents. I want 2!!!!

Note also the 12mm soft shackles they are using. Puts mine back into scale! Lol.

Grime will make no difference here at all. The ring spins in the soft shackle, there is nearlly zero friction and no pass of dirty rope. The rope travels around the circumference like any other snatch block.

Great kit. BIG! No grease! I have had an ARB Snatch Block explode on me during a big winch! Got my attention! I reckon thats awesome.

[MudRunnerTD]

Instead of a snatch block, the new thing is a snatch ring, like this:

78616

Look like a damn good idea.

That pic doesnt do it justice. Zoom in and that is rated for rope 10mm to 14mm. That makes it the same size as the one in the video above. Thats awesome!!!

[MudRunnerTD]

Do if you have not watched that video i highly recomend it as compulsory viewing for Soft shackles and rings! Maybe the best one I've seen for our application.

13minutes very well spent!

Here are some screen shots for your interest!

Here is some scale

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/308.jpg

Here is some application pics. Last 2 minutes of the vid. A great interview though gents.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/309.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/310.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/311.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/312.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/313.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/314.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/315.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/316.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/317.jpg



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[MB]

Please do help my somewhat relatively new nuffy to winch rope head get around this concept Daz mate!
Ever so kindly been introduced to this great product from you good blokes here in 2015ish but have seen hard abrasion/burning lately of our top quality Aussie ‘Whittams’ rope we now buy.
If a Navi aint watching the hard side spool buildup then it does affect it severely surely the same as rotating a pulley across it under immense snatch block loads?
Honestly very keen to learn again here mate, you aint failed us yet [emoji106][emoji106]


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[MB]

Whoops, took me too long to type that crap, time to watch and get educated!


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[MB]

Great video actually mate, exciting new stuff to come!
Maybe just a few honest questions still though they didn’t quite cover or I nuffy missed no doubt.

Rope wear, big blokes words:
"It is proven not to be the case.....so far"

Skinny bloke, if the line drops out:
"rope on rope" (good safety still linked I guess)

They both agree together a soft shackles eye is the most common failure point yet pulley application has eye/knot rubbing against the pulleys side.

Honestly not trying to be negative, just can’t get my head around rope abrasion long term, please help?





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[MudRunnerTD]

Great video actually mate, exciting new stuff to come!
Maybe just a few honest questions still though they didn’t quite cover or I nuffy missed no doubt.

Rope wear, big blokes words:
"It is proven not to be the case.....so far"

Skinny bloke, if the line drops out:
"rope on rope" (good safety still linked I guess)

They both agree together a soft shackles eye is the most common failure point yet pulley application has eye/knot rubbing against the pulleys side.

Honestly not trying to be negative, just can’t get my head around rope abrasion long term, please help?





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All good mate. The weakest link in the soft shackle is the eye around the knot. Regardless of its use that never changes. Considering this, how you set up the soft shackle when under load is important. Rather than trying to pull the back off the knot you fit it so the knot is near the load and trying to pull through. Much less load here.

So dyneema is very very slick mate. With the ring spinning slowly around the soft shackle there will be very little friction. They discuss it a little in the vid. A winch recovery through a snatch block or ring is half speed of winch. So slow.

Assuming your soft shackle is clean and the ring is clean then there is no dirt to cause damage. Your winch rope is not slipping through, it is rotating. No friction .

If under an extraordinary event the ring failed and the rope came out from over it it would be caught by the shackle, it is looped through the shackle. This is a bonus.

[MB]

Cheers mate, still a little confused but will get there eventually as always proven out there thank you[emoji106][emoji106]
As you may know I resisted rope full stop yet now thankfully convinced if used extra carefully, this next level is spooking me yet again :-)


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[PeeBee]

OK, so the ring stays static and the winch rope slips around the ring, yes, clever, tried to watch the video but kept getting smashed with pop ups, so gave up. Reckon I will stick with the snatch block for now as have not had one come apart in 30 yrs, but don't play in the same pit as others do.

[MudRunnerTD]

OK, so the ring stays static and the winch rope slips around the ring, yes, clever, tried to watch the video but kept getting smashed with pop ups, so gave up. Reckon I will stick with the snatch block for now as have not had one come apart in 30 yrs, but don't play in the same pit as others do.

Hmmm i dont get pop up adds watching thar phil, only once at the start?

But no, the ring rotates just like a conventional snatch block. Instead of the bearing spinning the ring spins around the centre soft shackle.

[MudRunnerTD]

You can see here how it would spin as a dry bearing. If it did not spin then absolutely the original concern would be true, the dirty winch rope would slip around and act like a saw blade and slice it in half.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/320.jpg



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[MudRunnerTD]

But in operation see how the knot of the soft shackle is positioned. Not trying to pull the head off the knot backwards.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/321.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/322.jpg



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[MudRunnerTD]

The weakest part of the soft shackle is the loop because it is the thinnest. It is the size of the single rope, in this case 12mm dyneema. (Strong), what makes it weakest is the diameter of the bend around the rest of the rope, (at that point its 2x 12mm rope). By positioning it in this way the knot takes a fair bit of that stress.

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[BigRAWesty]

I'm not a fan at all. High load, rotationg alloy steel on thin synthetic strands.
It will melt it.
And grit will make it worse.
The anodising will wear into it.

Blocks using bearings are a far better idea as there is no sliding parts. It's all rotating..

[PeeBee]

Hmmm i dont get pop up adds watching thar phil, only once at the start?

But no, the ring rotates just like a conventional snatch block. Instead of the bearing spinning the ring spins around the centre soft shackle.

I am back out at the mine, internet is about as fast as a dead slug at times, well below dial up. We have a Telstra tech out here for the last week trying to resolve, almost dead phones as well, so any pop up at this speed makes viewing next to impossible, maybe its one pop up, but for me it never ended and the video keeps stopping and refreshing. (this update will take over 10 mins to send) Anyway, principal understood, more relaxed now I know the ring actually rotates as well as it drops the frictional load between rope and donut, but over time, the dirt will abraid the rope and life will be reduced. I guess when I balance this against the number of times people will actually need to use the device, it will be fine. My approach is perhaps more conservative as I am using cranes and lifting devices, some lift plans take hours to resolve to be honest and on the job we are completing right now, the lifts have been analysed and challenged and reviewed at least a dozen times - I am sick of it to be honest, but when we do the work, it goes well. We work in highly controlled and regulated environs, as opposed to the loose recreational world, hence my responses may be framed within a different context. Anyway Daren, thanks for the explanation, good stuff.

[TimE]

Not cheap, available from Drifta check here (https://www.drifta.com.au/product/snatch-rings/)

[MudRunnerTD]

I'm not a fan at all. High load, rotationg alloy steel on thin synthetic strands.
It will melt it.
And grit will make it worse.
The anodising will wear into it.

Blocks using bearings are a far better idea as there is no sliding parts. It's all rotating..

Nah no way mate. Remember the sacrificial here is the Soft shackle. That will be the wear surface. When your soft shackle is dirty beyond service then your should replace it.

Same goes for your winch rope. When its at end of life replace it. You guys really are over thinking this i reckon.

Think about how slow your winch speed is througha snatch block. SLOW

[MudRunnerTD]

Not cheap, available from Drifta check here (https://www.drifta.com.au/product/snatch-rings/)

Yeah a snatch block of decent quality will coat you $100 too though. Not too bad

[MudRunnerTD]

I'm not a fan at all. High load, rotationg alloy steel on thin synthetic strands.
It will melt it.
And grit will make it worse.
The anodising will wear into it.

Blocks using bearings are a far better idea as there is no sliding parts. It's all rotating..Hard Anodizing too

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/05/323.jpg



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[BigRAWesty]

Nah no way mate. Remember the sacrificial here is the Soft shackle. That will be the wear surface. When your soft shackle is dirty beyond service then your should replace it.

Same goes for your winch rope. When its at end of life replace it. You guys really are over thinking this i reckon.

Think about how slow your winch speed is througha snatch block. SLOWSpeed is not needed if you you have load and friction.
And you and I both know that test in the video was soft.
Slight uphill unstuck car on hard ground..

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[MudRunnerTD]

I am back out at the mine, internet is about as fast as a dead slug at times, well below dial up. We have a Telstra tech out here for the last week trying to resolve, almost dead phones as well, so any pop up at this speed makes viewing next to impossible, maybe its one pop up, but for me it never ended and the video keeps stopping and refreshing. (this update will take over 10 mins to send) Anyway, principal understood, more relaxed now I know the ring actually rotates as well as it drops the frictional load between rope and donut, but over time, the dirt will abraid the rope and life will be reduced. I guess when I balance this against the number of times people will actually need to use the device, it will be fine. My approach is perhaps more conservative as I am using cranes and lifting devices, some lift plans take hours to resolve to be honest and on the job we are completing right now, the lifts have been analysed and challenged and reviewed at least a dozen times - I am sick of it to be honest, but when we do the work, it goes well. We work in highly controlled and regulated environs, as opposed to the loose recreational world, hence my responses may be framed within a different context. Anyway Daren, thanks for the explanation, good stuff.Cheers Phil, sounds like fun.

At the end of the day we are plating in a space using synthetic rope. The usage and environmentals dictate a shortened working life. If people respect the need to keep gear clean and abrasion free and inspect regularly (like they should anyway) them risk is mitigated.

If all the recovery components are in good condition then this Will Not be the weakest link

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[mudnut]

Problem solved. A teflon tube as bearing. I thought a teflon washer would be the go between the knot and ring but that would act as a cutter at the centre. If the anodising was damaged at all, it would quickly corrode as same as an anodised fairlead, wouldn't it?

[10G]

This is great discussion.

I brought this up, as last weekend I was going through what to pack for my trip and unpacked my snatch block & shackles. I need to get rid of unused things and reduce weight.

Carried the snatch block around for a 1000 years and never used it, but understand its usefulness. I've replaced the shackles with soft ones and am tossing up about this ring thing.

I've not watched the vid yet, but I can understand how the ring would rotate around the shackle if for no other reason than the rope is wrapped around the ring, or the rope has more surface area contacting the ring than the shackle so the rope will have more 'power' behind it to rotate the ring than the shackle which is stationary. Happy to be told I'm wrong, I'm not an expert.

My driving would see me maybe wearing this out in a gazillion years, but saving weight in my vehicle immediately.

This would be a good item to organise as a group buy I reckon.

[Hodge]

Great innovation.
Can replace the hefty ARB snatch block residing in my draws constantly being a burden in a already gvm tickling GU.

In power industry over in the us of A , they have been using this ring technology as an insulator when rigging ropes through live line work.
Something unheard of here in behind the times land of Oz.

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[10G]

Great innovation.
Can replace the hefty ARB snatch block residing in my draws constantly being a burden in a already gvm tickling GU.

In power industry over in the us of A , they have been using this ring technology as an insulator when rigging ropes through live line work.
Something unheard of here in behind the times land of Oz.

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Yeah, I reckon this idea must have come from somewhere else. I was thinking it's something you'd see on yachts with all their lines & pulleys etc.

[MudRunnerTD]

This is great discussion.

I brought this up, as last weekend I was going through what to pack for my trip and unpacked my snatch block & shackles. I need to get rid of unused things and reduce weight.

Carried the snatch block around for a 1000 years and never used it, but understand its usefulness. I've replaced the shackles with soft ones and am tossing up about this ring thing.

I've not watched the vid yet, but I can understand how the ring would rotate around the shackle if for no other reason than the rope is wrapped around the ring, or the rope has more surface area contacting the ring than the shackle so the rope will have more 'power' behind it to rotate the ring than the shackle which is stationary. Happy to be told I'm wrong, I'm not an expert.

My driving would see me maybe wearing this out in a gazillion years, but saving weight in my vehicle immediately.

This would be a good item to organise as a group buy I reckon.

Im in for a group buy for sure

[MudRunnerTD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=_Y51NBDeYKA

[MB]

That looks much more reassuring Daz mate, is it two ropes together to make a single soft shackle bound at the monkey fist knot thingy?


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[threedogs]

I was thinking if your winching 4t thats going to build a heap of heat.
Happy to be wrong , cant see it being safer and safety is the name of the game eh

[MudRunnerTD]

matfew can you post a couple of pics of that snatch block in the back of your GQ please mate. I ment to take a couple of pics.

[10G]

I was thinking if your winching 4t thats going to build a heap of heat.
Happy to be wrong , cant see it being safer and safety is the name of the game eh

Yeah maybe TD?? The winch'll be getting hot as well, I reckon you'd need to rest the winch first, but I got no experience with this stuff.

[10G]

Hey MudRunnerTD you guys doing a splicing workshop some time?????

I'm happy to get in touch with Drifta and see if they'd like to donate one to the meeting so you can all test it out and review it etc. Any thoughts on that???

[MudRunnerTD]

Hey MudRunnerTD you guys doing a splicing workshop some time?????

I'm happy to get in touch with Drifta and see if they'd like to donate one to the meeting so you can all test it out and review it etc. Any thoughts on that???

Yeah thats is the plan. I'd be keen if they want to throw one my way. Happy to review it and post a Youtube vid of it for sure.

[10G]

Hey MudRunnerTD, check ya inbox / PMs comrade.

[10G]

I was thinking if your winching 4t thats going to build a heap of heat.
Happy to be wrong , cant see it being safer and safety is the name of the game eh

G'day TD. Was emailing Luke from Drifta, they se;; these rings. He sent me a video on which they use one of these rings to recover a fully loaded 79 series up a rise/hill. He said the rings hardly get warm. I haven't watched the vid yet. Here tis - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liAneEO9ofI

[10G]

I've been able to get a snatch ring from the good folks at Drifta for demo day use at MudRunnerTD upcoming soft shackle / how to splice workshop.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys think of them.

[PeeBee]

I was watching a youtube clip on these units in action, from a distributor in the UK from memory, and what I noticed was the soft shackle was fitted with a wear sleeve and the donut rotates directly on that surface rather than the rope. I thought that would probably be enough to get me to purchase one as the interface surface between the rope and ring is my only concern. I think they are a really simple device and improvement in a lot of conditions, but still holding onto the snatch block until I see some more feedback.

[the evil twin]

I use a chafe sleeve on my softies anytime I think they may be subject to friction heat or severe abrasion.

You can use an old length of sleeve off a knackered Winch Rope or buy some.
All you do is cut it to length and slide it over the softie.

It's only like 10 to 15 bucks a metre and that metre will give you 3 or 4 sleeves at least.

If you identify a need you slip a sleeve over the softie, attach the softie, do the deed, remove the softie and check for damage... just like using a...uuummmmm... nah, won't go there.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-Quality-Dyneema-Technora-Chafe-Sleeving-PER-METRE-Winch-Rope-Sleeve/254201149002?hash=item3b2f91b64a:m:mXGWvrQQClvWlJm GhKNdr7w

[MudRunnerTD]

I use a chafe sleeve on my softies anytime I think they may be subject to friction heat or severe abrasion.

You can use an old length of sleeve off a knackered Winch Rope or buy some.
All you do is cut it to length and slide it over the softie.

It's only like 10 to 15 bucks a metre and that metre will give you 3 or 4 sleeves at least.

If you identify a need you slip a sleeve over the softie, attach the softie, do the deed, remove the softie and check for damage... just like using a...uuummmmm... nah, won't go there.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-Quality-Dyneema-Technora-Chafe-Sleeving-PER-METRE-Winch-Rope-Sleeve/254201149002?hash=item3b2f91b64a:m:mXGWvrQQClvWlJm GhKNdr7w

Nice, been looking and all i could find was expensive and not quite big enough for my 12mm. would you grab some 20mm for a loose fit over the 12mm Softy although it is a double length of 12mm so not sure that is big enough?

[MudRunnerTD]

I was watching a youtube clip on these units in action, from a distributor in the UK from memory, and what I noticed was the soft shackle was fitted with a wear sleeve and the donut rotates directly on that surface rather than the rope. I thought that would probably be enough to get me to purchase one as the interface surface between the rope and ring is my only concern. I think they are a really simple device and improvement in a lot of conditions, but still holding onto the snatch block until I see some more feedback.

In the previous Vid the guys specifically talks about the sheath. He was concerned about dirt under the sheath that you cant see. If everything is kept clean the risk is very low. The winch rope is no where near the soft shackle by design so it really is how clean the Soft Shackle is, Not the winch rope. This should be an instant inspection and judgement i think.

[PeeBee]

In the previous Vid the guys specifically talks about the sheath. He was concerned about dirt under the sheath that you cant see. If everything is kept clean the risk is very low. The winch rope is no where near the soft shackle by design so it really is how clean the Soft Shackle is, Not the winch rope. This should be an instant inspection and judgement i think.

Totally agree Darren. For me the rolling and sliding winch rope is not the issue, its the static soft shackle. If that part stays out of the muck, and is protected by the sock, happy days. The winch rope may pick up some crap but its impact on the ring would be minimal I reckon, certainly no worse than a snatch block.

[threedogs]

I have a heap of 25mm yacht rope Id love to find out what breaking strain
or what its used for. Id love to have an eye spliced in each end. Ive used it once
for a recovery and it was fine its an awesome piece of rope, I had about 20mtrs
but cut it in half. maybe some one can tell me what I have from the colour marking
on the rope.

[the evil twin]

By "Yacht Rope" I assume you mean double braid polyester IE an internal braided poly rope with an external poly braid over it and not Kernmantle over aramid or somesuch... IE this stuff
https://www.whitworths.com.au/6mm-d-braid-white

If so 25mm (which is pretty darn big) is rated around 15,000 Kg B.S... 20mm is 10 to 12,000 Kg B.S.
Work backwards from there for knots used

I say "around" as it is different for different manufacturers.

FWIW I have some 20mm Marlowe 8 Braid at work hidden away as it is awesome to handle wet or dry (so perfect for mooring lines) but a pig to splice.

[threedogs]

I was watching a youtube clip on these units in action, from a distributor in the UK from memory, and what I noticed was the soft shackle was fitted with a wear sleeve and the donut rotates directly on that surface rather than the rope. I thought that would probably be enough to get me to purchase one as the interface surface between the rope and ring is my only concern. I think they are a really simple device and improvement in a lot of conditions, but still holding onto the snatch block until I see some more feedback.

You thinking like these BS 15Ton
Again I stress do not use these with my recovery points as they were not designed for soft shackles.
Ive noticed Road Safe selling soft shackles with copies of my recovery points, again DO NOT use them.
if you must first use a shackle so the soft shackle has a smooth round surface to work on

[PeeBee]

Yes TD, however like the double legged units better, I have some of the singles but have not used then as yet, and they are not protected like these are.

[the evil twin]

Nice, been looking and all i could find was expensive and not quite big enough for my 12mm. would you grab some 20mm for a loose fit over the 12mm Softy although it is a double length of 12mm so not sure that is big enough?

20mm fits my 12mm softies easypeasy... hardly gets used these days tho, they were made for truck recovery so are waaay overkill for most 4X applications... only ever been used regularly by my young fella in a prev job he had for a coupla years.

I made my sheaths from discards but FWIW I would suggest a metre of 20mm and a metre of 14mm and you would have a lifetime supply of sheathing for under $30.
I just keep a few sheaths in with my softies and slide the sheath on or off a shackle as required.

[MudRunnerTD]

So just received this on the mail today. Looks pretty sweet actually. It's smaller than the other pics. This is the 5 ton unit which is a higher rating than the ARB snatch block.

Keen to see the bigger one but this is a rippa.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/06/36.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/06/37.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/06/38.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/06/39.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/06/40.jpg

The slot is rated for up to 12mm but is a 20mm groove.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/06/41.jpg

The centre is about 30mm. Will be interested to see how the 12mm soft shackle fits through the hole.???

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/06/42.jpg

The outer diameter is 80mm and the inner rolling diameter for the outer rope is 40mm.

Thanks a heap to 10G for sorting this. Can't wait to have a play.



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[MB]

Well done Blokes, Movers & Shakers, getting testing cool stuff done [emoji106][emoji106]


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[10G]

I'm keen to see how you get on with it Darren. Gee it does look small. One thing I'll be interested to hear about is if it's difficult to use coz of its size?

Things like, is it too small to handle? Does it get lost in the recovery bag? do the ropes slip off it too easily and so on.