To chip or not to chip...

[Mc4by]

I have a 2002 GU III ZD30DI.
I would like opinions on chipping or not chipping this motor.
I will be towing a light weight camper trailer over a long distance but also over a long time.
One workshop said yes, it will be great; another said, No, on that motor it will adjust fuel but not air and that will be bad.

Has / does anyone run this motor with a chip and what do you think?

As a base line I have full NADS, 3 inch exhaust and the truck runs well.
Some hills cause me minor grief and that is what I want to eliminate.

TIA

[mudski]

When I had my 2001 3Ltr I ran the DP Chip with no issues. Had the full nads big pipe, modified intake, the lot. I felt the chip only worked when towing, I could not feel any difference when not towing.

[Bidja]

Have you considered an ECU remap (can get postal remap for around $750 + postage)?
What induction intake sys do you have, all the way thru to turbo inlet?
What is your max boost and how do you control that?

[Mc4by]

Hadn't thought of the ECU map as I thought that would be hard to undo if I wasn't happy with the result.
I have a safari snorkel installed but standard beyond that.
Max boost 16 psi, sits on 10 at 100kmh.
Dawes valve controls the boost.

[mudski]

Hadn't thought of the ECU map as I thought that would be hard to undo if I wasn't happy with the result.
I have a safari snorkel installed but standard beyond that.
Max boost 16 psi, sits on 10 at 100kmh.
Dawes valve controls the boost.

Im not sure if you can get a ECU remap on the older Di motors. When I had my Di you couldn't but things might have changed since. An ECU remap is permanent too. With a remap they can get rid of the stupid limp mode crap, then you can load up the boost and have fun. Max boost 16psi is ok but not the best. Mine ran 25 psi max and about 19 at 100k. Which meant the needle valve was pretty much closed right off. For shits and giggles I did run mine at 30 and it went really well but the stock turbos dont like anymore than 25 so I kept it at that.

[Bidja]

Mc4by

You can do remap of ECU for DI. The ECU map can be changed only by that tuner that did the previous remap. The ECU can be set back to the stock baseline set points only by the tuner of current remap and then ECU can be given to an other tuner for a subsequent remap. The current tuner can perform subsequent changes to his previous remap of that ECU.

There will be a company in WA that do remap (live or postal). I used ECPT (Tuggerah, NSW) Harley Anderson (Technical contact) who has a good reputation and does postal remaps and live tunes. Can send him your ECU for postal remap and ECPT posts it back, maybe 2 wks turnaround time. A remap can turn EGR off to prevent limp and with stock turbo/IP/injectors, his tune provides for max B 20-22psi / AFR 19 - 22:1(depends what your needs are_towing etc).

https://ecpt.com.au/about-us/


Question: Your max boost control is Dawes, so do you use needle or use VNT vac solenoid to control spool?

[Cuppa]

My view may go against the tide. :)

If you must do this sort of 'tuning' do it well before you head off on the big trip, don't risk new 'issues' when a long way from anywhere.

Added 'complexity' may make getting mechanical assistance in out of the way places more difficult. KISS is best.

We live with 'slow' up hills in favour of reliability with our 4.2, in fact we have slowed down quite considerably overall. Commonly sit on 80kph on highways & slower on dirt. It doesn't feel difficult to do, in fact it is both more relaxing & fuel efficient. What's the rush?

Mostly when away from cities & the east coast the roads are sparsely populated, so holding up traffic is a non issue, & we still have plenty of 'go' when in situations we need it.

Tassie has a lot of mountains - 2nd gear climbing on highways was common.

[mudski]

My view may go against the tide. :)

If you must do this sort of 'tuning' do it well before you head off on the big trip, don't risk new 'issues' when a long way from anywhere.

Added 'complexity' may make getting mechanical assistance in out of the way places more difficult. KISS is best.

We live with 'slow' up hills in favour of reliability with our 4.2, in fact we have slowed down quite considerably overall. Commonly sit on 80kph on highways & slower on dirt. It doesn't feel difficult to do, in fact it is both more relaxing & fuel efficient. What's the rush?

Mostly when away from cities & the east coast the roads are sparsely populated, so holding up traffic is a non issue, & we still have plenty of 'go' when in situations we need it.

Tassie has a lot of mountains - 2nd gear climbing on highways was common.

Its alright for you mate to take your time. Unfortunately most of us holiday on a time line. :0

[Cuppa]

Its alright for you mate to take your time. Unfortunately most of us holiday on a time line. :0

mudski

That's true Mark, but the OP is planning long term travel, & will be in a position to take his time.

[Bidja]

Mc4by

For your consideration. My eng CRD, I have done progressive eng mods over time - NADS, cooler, intake induction, remaps, high flow turbo (run max B 26psi (rear wheels 136kW/512N-m) have ended up with a good result but fair few $$ spent to get there and lessons learnt. ECO from home (@600m) up to the snowy mtns (1300m), total 450kms: stock 14.5l/100kms and now easy 12 l/100kms - veh 3.5T

Chip / Remap / or leave as is, up to you. What you have done to date is good.

Irrespective of what you do longer term, IMO, these ZD30 engines do need to breath well, suggest you look at doing an upgrade to your air intake (induction) first and this may satisfy your need. As stock, the induction is too restrictive and would be even more so if you go with Chip or remap and run at higher boost. This alone will provide improved performance pwr/torque/EGTs. Too much restriction before turbo causes a vacuum and the turbo works harder to overcome this. Solution depends on what you are prepared to spend and it helps if you able to do the work. Possible Option: Use current snorkel with an upgraded airbox and 3" pipe from airbox to turbo with 2.5" flange elbow to turbo compressor housing(easy bolt on).

[Mc4by]

mudski

That's true Mark, but the OP is planning long term travel, & will be in a position to take his time.

Time will not be a concern, fortunate in that.
I guess it is my memory of being impatient behind a slow towing vehicle in my past and wanting to avoid being that person :)
We have done a couple of short excursions and haven't encountered any real issues apart from dropping to 85 / 90 on some hills.
I remember from your blog the statement that it took some time for you to stop thinking you had to 'get' to the next stop. Maybe I just need a mindset change.

[Mc4by]

Mc4by

For your consideration. My eng CRD, I have done progressive eng mods over time - NADS, cooler, intake induction, remaps, high flow turbo (run max B 26psi (rear wheels 136kW/512N-m) have ended up with a good result but fair few $$ spent to get there and lessons learnt. ECO from home (@600m) up to the snowy mtns (1300m), total 450kms: stock 14.5l/100kms and now easy 12 l/100kms - veh 3.5T

Chip / Remap / or leave as is, up to you. What you have done to date is good.

Irrespective of what you do longer term, IMO, these ZD30 engines do need to breath well, suggest you look at doing an upgrade to your air intake (induction) first and this may satisfy your need. As stock, the induction is too restrictive and would be even more so if you go with Chip or remap and run at higher boost. This alone will provide improved performance pwr/torque/EGTs. Too much restriction before turbo causes a vacuum and the turbo works harder to overcome this. Solution depends on what you are prepared to spend and it helps if you able to do the work. Possible Option: Use current snorkel with an upgraded airbox and 3" pipe from airbox to turbo with 2.5" flange elbow to turbo compressor housing(easy bolt on).

This option sounds easy, relatively cheap and diy so that could be the path I choose.
After that I can see if I really need to do more.

[Cuppa]

I guess it is my memory of being impatient behind a slow towing vehicle in my past and wanting to avoid being that person :)


It has been uncommon for us to have held others up. Traffic density is generally low except when in towns/cities, & then we are perfectly able to manage the traffic speed. On the rare occasion on slow & steep twisty roads where no overtaking lanes existed we have simply pulled over as soon as safe to let someone behind us get past. Most give a hoot or a wave of thanks. In areas where roadtrains are common I usually call them on channel 40 & ask if they would like me to pull over. 99% of the time the response is along the lines "Nah mate, just carry on as you are, & I'll come around you on the straight in X kilometres. I'll let you know when". When they are pulling past I just back off to help them pass quicker. Always get thanked & often end up having a bit of a conversation to boot. If you can manage 85/90 on hills I can't see a problem.

[Bidja]

This option sounds easy, relatively cheap and diy so that could be the path I choose.
After that I can see if I really need to do more.

Improved induction is really what need to do first anyway and will compliment what you have now.

What cooler are you running and how are you controlling spool(eg: needle, VNT sol or max spool.)?

[Mc4by]

Improved induction is really what need to do first anyway and will compliment what you have now.

What cooler are you running and how are you controlling spool(eg: needle, VNT sol or max spool.)?

Standard cooler, airbox etc aside from the snorkel and 3 inch exhaust. Spool control via needle.

[Mc4by]

Mc4by

For your consideration. My eng CRD, I have done progressive eng mods over time - NADS, cooler, intake induction, remaps, high flow turbo (run max B 26psi (rear wheels 136kW/512N-m) have ended up with a good result but fair few $$ spent to get there and lessons learnt. ECO from home (@600m) up to the snowy mtns (1300m), total 450kms: stock 14.5l/100kms and now easy 12 l/100kms - veh 3.5T

Chip / Remap / or leave as is, up to you. What you have done to date is good.

Irrespective of what you do longer term, IMO, these ZD30 engines do need to breath well, suggest you look at doing an upgrade to your air intake (induction) first and this may satisfy your need. As stock, the induction is too restrictive and would be even more so if you go with Chip or remap and run at higher boost. This alone will provide improved performance pwr/torque/EGTs. Too much restriction before turbo causes a vacuum and the turbo works harder to overcome this. Solution depends on what you are prepared to spend and it helps if you able to do the work. Possible Option: Use current snorkel with an upgraded airbox and 3" pipe from airbox to turbo with 2.5" flange elbow to turbo compressor housing(easy bolt on).

Is this the sort of thing you are talking about?

https://gcg.com.au/diesel-performance/diesel-1/air-intake-piping-kits/nissan-patrol-zd30-billet-air-box-lid-detail

[the evil twin]

FWIW my opinion is that it is almost pointless fooling with the induction on a factory turbo, larger turbo hell yeah, factory not so much.

You'll see much better improvement from more efficient inter-cooling to give you denser air (more oxygen) into the intake unless you crank the boost a fair bit higher than factory.
Most people are reluctant to do so and the CRD seems to handle it more than the Di's but either way the factory turbo typically gets enough air thru the factory plumbing.

[Bidja]

Agree with the evil twin of benifits of installing an upgraded IC.

IMO the stock air box is very restrictive / limited, resulting from the way that the inlet is perpendicular to the filter element and provides very little clearance to the filter cylindrical face. This design causes turbulence and poor flow.. Have a look at the crap that builds up at against filter face at this concentrated point (room for improvement).

I suggest looking at this 9" pod A/B takes a K&N pod filter(KNRE-0870). The airbox made by a boiler maker Ben Lipscombe(thru ZD warriors_ FB), draws very well. $340 (box only)+postage. Two lengths available 300mm(ZD) and 330mm(TD42). I fitted the TD42 box and had to mod to the radiator plastic shroud-15mm cut away(easy done), with body saw, to bring it closer to radiator. This provided 330mm long A/B provided 50-60mm clearance from inlet end face to base of pod filter. Need to buy K&N pod filter: KNRE-0870. Say $450 total.
Ben can supply either 3 or 4" for inlet / outlet. Suggest 3" inlet then no need to mod hole in inner guard and 4" outlet and use 4 - 3" 90 deg silicon bend.

I connected box up to turbo with Fabwitz Industries 3" pipe(MAF sensor port / CC (PCV)return fitting and vac pick up fitting in pipe). You can make up your own similar to pic attached, using existing stock MAF port duct section.

Fabwitz Industries thru FB (not cheap but good quality). Fabwitz does air boxes as well and there are other available.

Read other forums (Google about and see what is being done). Prepared to provide more info mate.

[threedogs]

I have a 2002 GU III ZD30DI.
I would like opinions on chipping or not chipping this motor.
I will be towing a light weight camper trailer over a long distance but also over a long time.
One workshop said yes, it will be great; another said, No, on that motor it will adjust fuel but not air and that will be bad.

Has / does anyone run this motor with a chip and what do you think?

As a base line I have full NADS, 3 inch exhaust and the truck runs well.
Some hills cause me minor grief and that is what I want to eliminate.

TIA

My 2004 3ltr full nads runs a DP chip, first I set it on 10 but it just blew black smoke.
I have it on 5 now and is great I can keep up and sometimes beat the newer 4x4s.
tows my camper to the Murray with no problems at all,, you have to remember its only a 3ltr in a big 4x4 so
you wont be entering any grand prix soon, Agree with the up grade IC 30% bigger i even run the taller scoop

[Mc4by]

I shall banish myself to the archives to see what has gone before me with regards to upgraded turbo's, intercoolers and induction systems.
I am not desperate to do this but if it is affordable and makes overall effect better I may dive into it.

[Mc4by]

I am very appreciative of the input that so many have given on this matter.
I do have a couple of extra questions now based on what others have said.
1. Can I get an upgraded intercooler without getting a new turbo?
2. Is this a half step?
3. I understand (now) that added induction without turbo changes is maybe not worth the effort.
4. That I don't need any of this, really.
5. If I was to bite the bullet and try to get reliable, increased performance as a tow vehicle (I am not a rock crawler, I am a tourer) what is the optimal setup?

I like my 3.0 GU3 Di Patrol. It has been an excellent servant.

[the evil twin]

1. Yes, indeed highly recommended if you chip it
2. No
3. Agree with factory turbo, after all they are a VNT so they will keep boosting till they max out of vane angle or run out of air
4. I would, chip, 'cooler, nads, egr block, are all pretty much bolt on and 3 inch exhaust with EGT bung is for some but I get a shop to do it (dunno what you have already and too lazy to check back :-)
5. That was how mine was set up, Tourer, but I did VNT adjust instead of Nads 'cause mine was a CRD

[Mc4by]

I have been ringing around to see who can do what in terms of ECU remapping or Chipping and have been told you can't remap the Di.
The suggestion is getting a chip and playing with the settings myself or paying for a Steinbauer and having it installed and Dyno'd to the correct settings.
They would also remove the Dawes and set up the VNT boost control.
$2400 total.
I think I will get the upgraded intercooler and see if that is enough. It isn't pitiful at the moment, I just wanted less temp and more speed on the big hills. It may just not be worth the $ for hp conversion.

[Bidja]

ECPT do remap for ZD30DI (refer post #6):

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?44901-To-chip-or-not-to-chip&p=780466&viewfull=1#post780466

Post ECU remap_ I am currently trialing the control of max boost with Tillix in conjunction with the stock VNT vac solenoid and achieving a very good result(linear spool, lower EGTs and slight improvement in ECO). Others achieving similar results. Very impressed and is an improvement over full manual boost control (Tillix/Dawes and needle valve).

IMO do your mods progressively and observe and record the performance changes along the way.

Yes/agree, upgrade you IC first. What are you thinking of and at what price range?

[Mc4by]

ECPT do remap for ZD30DI (refer post #6):

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?44901-To-chip-or-not-to-chip&p=780466&viewfull=1#post780466

Post ECU remap_ I am currently trialing the control of max boost with Tillix in conjunction with the stock VNT vac solenoid and achieving a very good result(linear spool, lower EGTs and slight improvement in ECO). Others achieving similar results. Very impressed and is an improvement over full manual boost control (Tillix/Dawes and needle valve).

IMO do your mods progressively and observe and record the performance changes along the way.

Yes/agree, upgrade you IC first. What are you thinking of and at what price range?

Forefront, HPD and then Cross Country in order of expense :)
Researching the Forefront at the moment.
Debating the need for the fan v's cost increase.
Ebay jobs are much cheaper but maybe for a reason.

[Bidja]

Guess U are considering direct replacement in size, the CC Upgrade with fan, a few $s (Tube & Fin core), good piece of work and be also suited for follow on upgrades if U end up doing more.

[Mc4by]

Guess U are considering direct replacement in size, the CC Upgrade with fan, a few $s (Tube & Fin core), good piece of work and be also suited for follow on upgrades if U end up doing more.

The Forefront is 23% larger than stock but doesn't have a fan.
It's about 1/3 of the price of the others as well.

[jack]

The Forefront is 23% larger than stock but doesn't have a fan.
It's about 1/3 of the price of the others as well.

I went with Forefront and got a fan separately, easy install and the fan does make a difference. I have a separate switch for the fan and turn on when required.

[Bidja]

The Forefront is 23% larger than stock but doesn't have a fan.
It's about 1/3 of the price of the others as well.

Understand that Forefront are a bit thicker, Chinese cores, welded instead of crimp(stock cooler) and the size I made reference to was footprint so "direct bolt on".

Do not think you will see significant reductions in EGTs but an improvement over stock cooler.

Have a read:

https://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/3-litre-zd30-crd-engine-82/forefront-industries-intercoolers-317153/

[Bidja]

Impact on EGTs from using different cooler used on my CRD for your info. Test conditions : ECU remap, 4th gear CRD test hill 75% eng load and actual boost on haul 15-20psi:

Stock Unknown(no gauge)

Adrad IC (Aust/NZ made(Chinese core - near stock size core / Bar &Plate) - 575DegC

Jonny Tig (JT) Cooler - Similar to CC Ultimate (600x300x76mm core / Tube & Fin) - 450-475 DegC

JT cooler with improved induction (post #18) - 425 DegC (with my current set up, climbs it easy now)

Note: Based on anecdotal evidence, CC Upgrade can provide 100Dec C drop in EGTs (presume hauling)

[Mc4by]

Understand that Forefront are a bit thicker, Chinese cores, welded instead of crimp(stock cooler) and the size I made reference to was footprint so "direct bolt on".

Do not think you will see significant reductions in EGTs but an improvement over stock cooler.

Have a read:

https://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/3-litre-zd30-crd-engine-82/forefront-industries-intercoolers-317153/

Bidja I did read that thread while researching and note the date as 2010.
On their site they now have it in capitals that they are 'Ozzy Built'

https://www.forefrontindustries.com.au/product-page/gu-patrol-zd30-di-97-07-intercooler-upgrade-1

[Bidja]

Bidja I did read that thread while researching and note the date as 2010.
On their site they now have it in capitals that they are 'Ozzy Built'

https://www.forefrontindustries.com.au/product-page/gu-patrol-zd30-di-97-07-intercooler-upgrade-1

When you look at that link that I provided, the dated 2010 is the guys join date and the thread date is actually 2016. All good mate.

Yeah the coolers are assembled here but understand they use Chinese cores. Do appreciate, quality/specs vary with gear out of China.

[Mc4by]

When you look at that link that I provided, the dated 2010 is the guys join date and the thread date is actually 2016. All good mate.

Yeah the coolers are assembled here but understand they use Chinese cores. Do appreciate, quality/specs vary with gear out of China.

Geez don't let my wife know I did that!!! She will say it proves she has been right about me all along.
They are claiming Oz built though.
I must admit that HPD is looking better now though. The forefront doesn't come with piping, that is extra.