Second row seat removal

[Mc4by]

I have removed the 3rd row seats and now I am thinking about removing the second row seats as well.
With our plan being a lap I want to maximize the amount of storage and usable space in the wagon.
Has anybody done this already and do you have any pictures of how you utilised the space.
TIA

[PeeBee]

If you do it ,make sure you remove the seat belts, and ideally get the rego altered to reflect it is now a 2 seater. I have gone thru this in Vic, - yes I know its different to WA, however as you move around the country you could get pinged by Mr PLOD if the paperwork is not right. To register it as a 2 seater, you need to fit a cargo barrier behind the front seats as well. Then again you could just take your chances I guess.

[GQtdauto]

I'm sure we've been over the legalities in another thread somewhere but peebee is on the money .
I've removed all seats except the front two and put a false floor on the back floor ,I do have a cargo barrier .
Haven't yet changed any details with VicRoads .

[Mc4by]

Well I am glad I posted here.
I would have had no idea such things had to be done.
Will I need to go through this process in each state with their different laws or can I do it here in the west and it covers me everywhere?
The seats will go back in after I return.

[PeeBee]

I know each state has its own set of regs. I also know that Victoria no longer accepts engineering certs from WA due to dubious certificates being uncovered for vehicles that never went thru a certification - mine was 'engineered and GVM upgraded' in WA and none of it was recognised in Vic - however, as a traveller you may get away with a WA certificate on the basis you are returning to that state at journey's end, unlike me who has a Vic rego vehicle modified in WA. There have been the usual rumours and horror stories about forums for years about QLD and NSW pink slipping interstate travellers for non compliance , however I don't know how true this is in reality. I think if the vehicle looks tidy and has had some effort put in to protect occupants during a collision you may well slide under the 'official radar'.

[the evil twin]

Aaaah the old removing seats discussion eh... it varies from State to State...

Best scenario is like Vic where if the vehicle is originally a 9 seater or less just cut sick
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/vehicle-modifications-and-defects/vehicle-modifications/removing-adding-and-replacing-seats

Worst scenario is like Qld where 'temporary' is OK and 'permanent' requires a mod plate and the issue becomes what is the definition of 'temporary'
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and.../L51.pdf?la...

SA probably has the best definition of temporary
https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/driving-and-transport/vehicles/vehicle-standards-and-modifications/seats-and-seat-belts

Temporary removal of seats

Many 4WD owners who use their vehicles for holidays and camping sometimes would like to use the rear space of their 4WDs for camping equipment or for extra luggage room. Therefore it would be useful to temporarily remove the rear most seats in the vehicle.

If the removal of seats is temporary DPTI does not need to be advised, and no seating inspection is required.

If the seat cannot be returned to its original position because of the permanent removal of an anchorage point, then a seating inspection is required and Service SA will need to be notified of the change.

The temporary removal of seats in vehicles in particular to 4WD's with rear seats for seven or eight passengers, is permissible providing that:

- when removing rear seats that no tools or only simple tools are required
- no seat, seat belt or child restraint anchorages are removed or modified and no modification has been made to the seating capacity
- there are no structural modifications involved and there is no change in the vehicle's registration category.

Bottom line is that there are three things to note for all jurisdictions which IMHO are -
-Do NOT remove or dick with any any Belts or SRS equipment
-If in the unlikely event you get asked, indicate that you have only removed the seats temporarily and all mounts are intact and that the seats will be refitted on "date" when you are finished your trip.
-If you want to be deadset 100% absolutely sure you are kosher go and get the mod plate (but i wouldn't bother).

Disclaimer... I haven't gone thru every state for some time but don't think anyone has changed the regs recently so up to you what you do.

[PeeBee]

Good info ET, and yes I do now recall the 'temp' allowance, hence removal os seat belts needs to be ignored unless its permanent. I have had my GQ changed to a 5 seater from a 7, so maybe pulling the seats out for a 'lap' would be OK?

[Mc4by]

I really appreciate the valuable input on this.
Given it will just be the 2 of us and a car full of gear, I think we can be convincing about the temporary, holiday, status.
I will put some extra funds aside just in case.

[Cradoka]

True re SA, my 100 series LC has row 2 and 3 seats removed temporarily for 7 years. The row 2 seats can be refitted in 20 mins, most of that time spent looking for the carefully labeled fitting bolts.
Since my cargo barrier is between row 2 and 3 I have some decent ratchet straps organised to bundle the second row stores together to locate and stop things from transferring in the event of sudden stops, sideways rolls.
I may eventually get another cargo barrier one day, to complete things.

[Ghosts]

I have recently had a modification plate done on my wagon, due to the seats not being in for some time and not likely going back in. It cost around $150 and was told that the insurance company may not pay out on a claim if the seats weren`t in with out the mod plate. Bit of useful info to you, maybe.

[Mc4by]

Definitely worth a call to the insurance company. A couple of hundred is better than 30k.

[jff45]

I've just temporarily removed my 2nd row seats for a trip to the NT in May. They weigh 26 kg each so it's a big weight saving and an ideal spot to load any heavy items low down and forward of the rear axle.
The 3rd row seats were temporarily removed 10 years ago to make way for drawers.

[Mc4by]

I've just temporarily removed my 2nd row seats for a trip to the NT in May. They weigh 26 kg each so it's a big weight saving and an ideal spot to load any heavy items low down and forward of the rear axle.
The 3rd row seats were temporarily removed 10 years ago to make way for drawers.

52 kg is nearly 60 litres of water. I know what I would rather be carrying on a long trip.

[TPC]

I removed my second row seats for a 9 week trip up to Cape York and across Carpentaria last year, used the space for my fridge and an esky.

78048
78049

[Mc4by]

TPC could you tell me or do you have pics of how you secured the base to the floor?
That looks a lot like what I was thinking of doing.

[TPC]

This photo shows underneath the base I put in, I used the seat mounting points to screw the base down. The bolts needed are 12mm x 1.25, 70mm on the rear and 45mm on the front.
I have 45mm timber spacers that recess into where the rear seat lock down loops were, had to cut the carpet to make them fit in and 20mm ply for spacers at the front.
The front edge has a length of 45 x 90mm but this is not needed.
78050

I recessed the bolts so they didn't hit the bottom of the fridge or esky, the front bolts go in on an angle, makes it a pita to get the holes right.
78051

The measurements below are not correct for the bolt hole spacing, I would suggest getting the bolts and screwing them into the holes to make it easier to measure spacing.
I had to elongate the holes to make it fit after drilling in wrong places.
78052

[Mc4by]

Well thank you indeed TPC
That is going to save me a lot of fiddling around.
I will get that set up over the next week.

[PeeBee]

I had a platform like that in mine for a while, but found it didn't really give me much more space despite the seat now being removed. I had a cabinet system - anyway, am now looking at a system that takes up maybe only half the rear seat - MudRunnerTD has a couple of modified second row seat frames for mis 'darkness only beast' and they might be of interest - they bolt into the seat mounts as well and tip forward etc - look very clever.

[threedogs]

I have only removed the seat behind the driver to mount my Engel on a platfloor.
takes 5 mins to change it back. I only have a half barrier, but it suits my needs down to the ground'
When I was working I got a spare set on hinges from the guy from Two\Zone so the lid would hinge the other way..
no need for 0verpriced drop down thingies , what even did we do with out them, have we shrunk
as a nation over the years like global warming, Aslo had the Transit bag restitched to suit, again works for me

[Mc4by]

I have only removed the seat behind the driver to mount my Engel on a platfloor.
takes 5 mins to change it back. I only have a half barrier, but it suits my needs down to the ground'
When I was working I got a spare set on hinges from the guy from Two\Zone so the lid would hinge the other way..
no need for 0verpriced drop down thingies , what even did we do with out them, have we shrunk
as a nation over the years like global warming, Aslo had the Transit bag restitched to suit, again works for me

My Engel 40 has a reversible lid so this could be a quick and easy solution.
@TD what is a half barrier? Half width or half height?