63% Reduction Gears To Suit GQ GU Patrol

[mudski]

Brand new, purchased from here...http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?41204-63-reductions-suit-GQ-amp-GU-patrol-QLD&highlight=reduction+gears

Paid $1410 plus post.

Pickup is Eltham North Victoria.

Pics on request. But we know what they are....

[MB]

Didn’t know you bought some Mark mate, they’re bloody awesome, why so selling mate?



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[mudski]

Didn’t know you bought some Mark mate, they’re bloody awesome, why so selling mate?



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Need the coin for kids Christmas presents and mortgage repayments. A few large bills and paying for an operation kinda left us unexpectedly high and dry.
Will be looking at selling my hi mount too if anyone’s interested. Just need to work out what it owes me so far.


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[AB]

Shame mate, this time of the year certainly does suck I hear ya!

if anyone reading this is interested, these reduction gears are a huge game changer and must have if you like extreme climbing or descending.

[rusty_nail]

out of curiosity, can these be used in an auto?

[Winnie]

Brand new, purchased from here...http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?41204-63-reductions-suit-GQ-amp-GU-patrol-QLD&highlight=reduction+gears

Paid $1410 plus post.
Asking $1350 plus post.

Pickup is Eltham North Victoria.

Pics on request. But we know what they are....If I hadn't just bought the new motor mate I would be all over that!

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[mudski]

out of curiosity, can these be used in an auto?

Yes but I believe you would require a higher ratio drop. jaysee??? He got higher ratio for his.


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[Reddave]

If I hadn’t have just put an order in at UFI I would have bought them :(

[PeeBee]

Yes but I believe you would require a higher ratio drop. jaysee??? He got higher ratio for his.


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This is what I lifted off the Marks 4x4 website. I have 85% reduction in ,y manual, but they are recommended for auto's. Be aware though that 85% is a huge difference in top end speed in low range - could affect sand driving ease as you are putting a lot more torque down to ground instead of speed. I think mine is too low for sand to be honest.

The 85% reduction gears give you the biggest reduction we offer. These are mainly suited to rock crawling vehicles or vehicles that are prone to run away down hill (fitted with an automatic transmission). As an example this reduction gives a manual vehicle about two full gears below where the factory gearing sat. The maximum speed in low range will be approximately the same as third gear with standard gearing. High range is not altered when fitting our low range gears

[mudski]

Shame mate, this time of the year certainly does suck I hear ya!

if anyone reading this is interested, these reduction gears are a huge game changer and must have if you like extreme climbing or descending.

Yep. We just got hit with a few big bills and our account is literally in double figures. Scary shit, when mortgage repayments are due, kids school fee's other bills, shopping for food etc etc! But its just another bump in the road.

All will be behind us in a few months. When tough times hit, tough decisions need to be made. Simple. Its not the end of the world....

[AB]

This is what I lifted off the Marks 4x4 website. I have 85% reduction in ,y manual, but they are recommended for auto's. Be aware though that 85% is a huge difference in top end speed in low range - could affect sand driving ease as you are putting a lot more torque down to ground instead of speed. I think mine is too low for sand to be honest.

The 85% reduction gears give you the biggest reduction we offer. These are mainly suited to rock crawling vehicles or vehicles that are prone to run away down hill (fitted with an automatic transmission). As an example this reduction gives a manual vehicle about two full gears below where the factory gearing sat. The maximum speed in low range will be approximately the same as third gear with standard gearing. High range is not altered when fitting our low range gears

Yeah 85% is huge Phill.

Awesome for the dedication of climbing etc but hard to still be an all rounder.

63 is perfect in my opinion. I've played a little bit on the soft sand with the 63% on the Murray 200m runs 1 foot soft as hell sand and it's awesome in 2nd and 3rd.

Still, a good set up rig should do first high with ease on sand flats moderately steep dunes too but that's another conversation...lol


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[Bloggsy]

I have these 63% reduction gears in my 4.8 auto (I'm running 3.9 diffs, not 3.5s that come standard). I would have to say they are one of the best mods I've done to this Patrol. 1st low down hill is brilliant, no runaway, sometimes a bit too slow if I'm running the 33" tyres, but a little throttle solves that. I can drive around the tracks in low range all day long, not a problem. So much better control over the lumpy stuff. I haven't actually tried them in sand as yet, but I can't really see a problem as top speed is around 50-60kmh without revving the guts out of the motor.

Cheers,
Darren

[PeeBee]

I would max out at around the 35klm mark with 3.9's and a manual, in 5th, redline is 3200rpm in chev

[MB]

Reduction gears in general I now agree are probably one of the newfound nuffy MB best mods I’ve ever done too.
Makes for such a more relaxed descent in the gnarly stuff and same same up those rocky tracks.
Sorry Philstar but will say your beast kindly allowed a putt putt drive prior is just too damn slow in between tracks on the flat ridges old mate.
IIRC we shouldn’t be running LR 4th&5th for too long up top and it’s a little annoying switching back to HR repetitively, your honest thoughts PeeBee mate?


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[Winnie]

Reduction gears in general I now agree are probably one of the newfound nuffy MB best mods I’ve ever done too.
Makes for such a more relaxed descent in the gnarly stuff and same same up those rocky tracks.
Sorry Philstar but will say your beast kindly allowed a putt putt drive prior is just too damn slow in between tracks on the flat ridges old mate.
IIRC we shouldn’t be running LR 4th&5th for too long up top and it’s a little annoying switching back to HR repetitively, your honest thoughts PeeBee mate?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhy not use 4th and 5th? There are 5 gears available to use and I use them all!

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[MB]

For “too” long I was told, maybe a spinnie heaty thingy?
EDIT: Donk-Box-‘Transfer’-Diffs ?

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[PeeBee]

MB, its not a problem from a drive perspective. When I am in say 4th or even 5th, its easy coasting stuff, not any load, so in reality its basically using the gears as they are designed, but at a fraction of the speed. The 85% gears were installed to transform the vehicle when it had the original 2.8TD, and it absolutely did that, however with that engine there was too much gap between low and high range, so the middle ground flexibility was lost for stuff like sand. I would have struggled to get the barge across the Simpson in low with the 2.8 and it would not have made it over the first dune out of dalhousie in high.

With the Chev, and 85% reduction, its basically a third low all day in the high country, maybe 2nd on a climb, then if steep and ledgey and slippery, first low and its a doddle down as you know. It is a pain at times when 5th is ringing my ears off, but I can always stop, which i don't! Personally I think the 63's would be ideal for this engine/diff combination, but most of my driving is high country and its a conservative package. With this gearing it would pull anything up any hill it could drive itself, so thats another comforting thought. I think the 85% question arose regards the selection for a vehicle with an auto trans?

[MB]

Just noticed yesterday the warning sticker under the visor of our stock 2001 GU TD42T family wagon, yet to install these great reduction gears.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2018/12/349.jpg

(4L) Must not exceed 50kmph it reckons so ran a few gear versus fully stock drivetrain tests on the old bus.

4L 3rd gear = 3,500rpm ish
4L 4th gear = 2,500rpm ish
4L 5th gear = 2,200rpm ish

I’m only assuming now it’s roughly those ‘TD42’ engine rpm’s per gearbox selection choice that we need to keep under for transfer case health and possibly not the 4th & 5th gear warnings I was once campfire Babbel given before?

Would this below be roughly speed calculated up PeeBee mate or have I got it arse about upside down again mate. Maybe it doesn’t matter with the final drive reduction gears?

50kmph @ 85% reduction = 7.5kmph
50kmph @ 63% reduction = 18.5kmph
50kmph @ 43% reduction = 28.5kmph
50kmph @ 24% reduction = 38kmph

Either way, do love the 63% gears in my Chev ute too and reckon they’d be even better in the family TD42 wagon one day soon too.
Still reckon you should try if hopefully possible to hang onto them Mark mate if keeping your beautiful beast of a TD42Ti [emoji106][emoji106]




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[PeeBee]

@MB, have a look here, its a spreadsheet on the Marks 4x4 website that will give you HOURS of joy!!! You had me a bit confused and I could not really make sense of where you started and ended up, however either way this table gives you all the max sppeds based on your inputs for tyre size, engine rpm, original transfer case, reduction fitted and diff ratios. Its a beauty and will arm you with everything you need for that next campfire discussion - enjoy!!!

https://www.marks4wd.com/gear-calculator.html

[MB]

That’s very cool, thanks Philstar!
Seems briefly to calculate speeds etc....
Any max warning speeds recommended built in for us?


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[PeeBee]

I think what you will find is the vehicle will be basically speed limited if you don't exceed the redline mark. The RPM of the gearbox gears is unaffected by the downstream reduction, so its automatic. For example, if i drove on the redline in high range in 5th gear, the gearbox would be spinning at the same rpm as in low range but the transfer reduction will limit the final speed, hence the sticker on the door is more to get people to concentrate on speed rather than RPM as its probably safer that way, I am guessing now.

So for us, in the bush, fitted with reduction gears, its more about rpm than speed as you are going to be crawling around like a slug anyway, even if you are revving its head off.

[MB]

I think that’s what I was worried or advised against mate. Pinging 4th & 5th LR gear regardless of speed. Had assumed it was an oil heat thingy from heaps of spinning maybe?


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[PeeBee]

I think that’s what I was worried or advised against mate. Pinging 4th & 5th LR gear regardless of speed. Had assumed it was an oil heat thingy from heaps of spinning maybe?


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Only thing you are not getting is the increased heat transfer from air at 100kph against 40kph. The radiation energy will be the same, however the lower speed will affect what gets transferred into the surrounding metal and then makes that hotter - which in turn can re-radiate back towards the gearbox, as against the surrounding areas getting hit with the same radiated heat, but the air velocity acts in an erosion effect to strip the heat away. I guess simply, you cant destroy energy, only transfer it, and heat is energy. Inversely, if you put a fan under the vehicle and replicated the air velocity at 100kph, you would have greater cooling effect. This probably why earthmoving equipment and the like have cooling circuits for gearboxes, transmissions, differentials etc as they are pottering around, sometimes in the same position and airflow is poor. I am going to bed now, this is too difficult for my old head to think about, good night and sweet dreams my friend.

[MB]

Cheers mate, learning is good!


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[MB]

Morning Philstar mate!
One last honest quandary bugging me on our GU stock sticker warning.

Transfer case is safely engaged say stationary from 2WD to 4WD High Range (no ongoing drivable max warning listed, speed and or rpm)
Snot along Fraser Island beaches as you choose? (80kmph max open beach legal limit IIRC in the day)

Transfer case is then safely engaged to Low Range and a definite warning is listed.
There must be something in that mate, almost has to be LR stuff spinning harder and to take greater care of mate?



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[PeeBee]

OK, I think I understand what you are concerned about.
There are a couple of fundamental parameters that affect gear life and strength, rotational gear speed, tooth size, tooth width, material of construction, engagement width, hardness, lubrication and tooth finish. The gearbox gears are sized predominantly against torque rating, so the first gear is designed to transmit the greatest torque at lowest speed to get moving, within the applied power and is the largest gear. As you move up in gears the torque is reduced on the gear set itself until you get to the 5th or overdrive where the vehicle has greatly reduced requirements because it is already now moving quite quickly and has inertia and kinetic energy as well. It is then apparent that this 5th gear is the 'weakest' gear in the drive train. (you might recall the failures within the Toyota 60 series gearbox when they moved from a 4 speed to a 5 speed - predominantly caused by a 5th gear being sized to fit within a preexisting gearbox instead of modifying the gearbox size to allow for correct gear design sizing)

Then if you take that gear train and stick it into the back of essentially another reduction gearbox, being the transfer case, what happens in the situation of driving in 4th and 5th? So, the warning no doubt is related to how much hp is being transmiited, and torque from the motor thru the weakest gearset. So 4th being 1:1 and 5th O/D being say 0.85, I can see potential for gear set overload in the gearbox as a reaction to the vehicle drivetrain now increasing torque on the output shaft of the transfer case, especially in say a deceleration condition or jolting. Imagine this picture. 100kw motor, running thru a final 5th gear inside the gearbox, that is 1mm wide, then driving into a transfer case that is designed for high torque and has 50mm wide gears. You are cruising along at 50knhr on the sand in 5th low and hit some deep sand, which puts an instant load on the vehicle because its kinetic energy is now being strongly resisted by the sand, however your motor is trying to work against that at full torque because thats why you are in low range, for max torque output, so your hard locked up drive, assuming there is no clutch or automatic transmission involved where you can shear/absorb the change in energy, transfers through the drive and where the forces exceed the mechanical design capacity of the element, you will break something, in this example the 1mm gear will get damaged.

I think this is perhaps the limiting rational. I could pull the books out and work this through but its been 30 years since i designed a gearbox from scratch and it would take a bit of a headscratch to be honest. In summary, the designers want you to preserve the drive train by not exceeding your gearing design parameters, not only from a motive power perspective but also a resistive load from what you are driving in. (you have generated torque and resistive torque or reaction taking place) Logically you would not select the weakest gear to drive into a reduction gearbox and expect it to last, as opposed to a high torque capacity gear into a high torque condition - this will last, but relates to a reduction in physical speed and generated energy or inertia. Pretty heavy at 3.50 am MB, I think thats correct.

Pls, no more thinking from you for the rest of the DAY!

[MB]

Ah ha, thanks mate, I got now finally!
So to clarify my mates warning too must have been about the gearbox gears and not transfer gears.
Appreciate your efforts heaps here, top stuff mate!!


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[threedogs]

Are these reduction gears still available???

[love ke70]

Threedogs, did mudski sort you out with the gearset?

I still have them in stock if Mudski has sold his now.

I dont get on here much, so shoot me a text or call.

Cheers, Andy
0433 108 569

[Jeza686]

Hey guys, I'm still looking for a set if someone has one for sale let me know, I'll take them...

Thanks

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[love ke70]

I am aiming for stock late this year again. Funds permitting

[MB]

Thanks Andy, do absolutely love your 63% gears in my 6.5 diesel tractor ute.
Have been super busy/lazy and not yet had installed the second set in our family Td42 wagon.
If you are desperate jezza686 please do buy yourself a set of Marks 43% and I’ll swap you if you quickly need whilst Andy re-orders.
Reason being, our family wagons last real trip out of the mountains I believe would be suited better with 43% atop of its stock 3.9 highway diffs on the touring, sand tracks in SA etc...
If I’m wrong, can always swap boxes with the Mrs, lol :-)


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[mudski]

So I still haven’t fitted these. I just don’t have time, or the place to fit them. It will be a very reluctant sale...

Anyone interested in them?


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[love ke70]

I have stock again now too :)

[jay see]

So I still haven’t fitted these. I just don’t have time, or the place to fit them. It will be a very reluctant sale...

Anyone interested in them?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMark 4x4 obsession did mine for $600 I think. Once you get them in you'll love them..

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[mudski]

Mark 4x4 obsession did mine for $600 I think. Once you get them in you'll love them..

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Yeah I know. But $600 I can't justify for someone to fit these. Yes Im a tight arse. Lol. Plus the amount of 4wd'ing I actually do these days, which is pretty much none, I can use the money elsewhere.

[Hodge]

So I still haven’t fitted these. I just don’t have time, or the place to fit them. It will be a very reluctant sale...

Anyone interested in them?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkCan I try before I buy ? [emoji854]

[mudski]

Can I try before I buy ? [emoji854]

Sure can. Just pay the holding deposit of $1400. :wink:

[Ben-e-boy]

Yeah I know. But $600 I can't justify for someone to fit these. Yes Im a toyota loving tight arse. Lol. Plus the amount of 4wd'ing I actually do these days, which is pretty much none, I might aswell trade the patrol for an early petrol prado.

Fixed that quote :cheers::harhar::tease:

[love ke70]

Mark 4x4 obsession did mine for $600 I think. Once you get them in you'll love them..

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Hey Jay see, is that in Melbourne?
That is a good price for down there. I have no end of blokes telling me how expensive it is to get them in Vic.
If Mark is doing them well I will note that down and start sending people his way. I may give him a heads up that is what I am doing too to try help people out

Cheers, Andy

[jay see]

Hey Jay see, is that in Melbourne?
That is a good price for down there. I have no end of blokes telling me how expensive it is to get them in Vic.
If Mark is doing them well I will note that down and start sending people his way. I may give him a heads up that is what I am doing too to try help people out

Cheers, AndyYeah, mate western suburbs.. Guys that owns it is Brett.

I'll see if I can find the receipt to check the price.

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[love ke70]

Yeah, mate western suburbs.. Guys that owns it is Brett.

I'll see if I can find the receipt to check the price.

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Thanks very much mate, let me know if you find it

[jay see]

Thanks very much mate, let me know if you find itHaven't found the receipt yet, but did find a email quote.

Hi John,
Drive in, drive out would be $490.
This includes labour, oil and sealant.

Thank you
Brett

That was in 4 1/2 years ago and me providing the gears. Will keep looking for that receipt.

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[mudski]

Now selling for $1300.

[crawf01]

Hi mudski,

Did I see that correctly, are you selling 63% reduction gears?

Cheers,
Crawf

[rusty_nail]

Hi mudski,

Did I see that correctly, are you selling 63% reduction gears?

Cheers,
Crawf

yes he is lol

[crawf01]

Hi Mudski,

If you're selling 63% reduction gears, I might be interested.

Let me know.

Cheers,
Crawf

[crawf01]

yes he is lol

Thanks Rusty! Well when he's next online and sees the message I'm sure he'll ping me, because I'm and interested buyer :-D

[rusty_nail]

Thanks Rusty! Well when he's next online and sees the message I'm sure he'll ping me, because I'm and interested buyer :-D

ill let him know =D

[mudski]

Hi Mudski,

If you're selling 63% reduction gears, I might be interested.

Let me know.

Cheers,
Crawf

Hey mate. Yes Im, reluctantly, selling these reduction gears mate. Shoot me a pm mate and we discuss further there if you like.

[love ke70]

You can buy more later from me again mudski when you change your mind hahahaha

[mudski]

These are SOLD pending payment.

[mudski]

Sold!!!........