Going Solar on the GU wagon

[altech]

Hi Guys, my Patrol not doing much these days as I don't use it as daily drive. but every time I go to start and you guess flat battery. not any more with 200w ebay solar panel $76 buck and $20 solar controller. Now as you can see no roof racks, I no, I just used 3in1 Shelly silicone , 1400mm aluminium angel and stuck straight on the roof rails. not all about the looks,but it works for me. Now my battery was flat on Saturday, overcast-ed sky's all weekend, today jump in and she started up first go. doing the dance lol all this under $100 bucks cheers Alex

Controller
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MPPT-Auto-Focus-Solar-Controller-30A-40A-50A-60A-100A-Regulator-LCD-Display-AU/232976970567?_trkparms=aid%3D333200%26algo%3DCOMP. MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140728113407%26meid%3D8bde0 156d0d54a2899af2698f0ad0b8b%26pid%3D100148%26rk%3D 1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D112639354923%26itm%3D2329769705 67&_trksid=p2059210.c100148.m2813

Solar panel
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GISTA-12V-200W-MONO-Solar-Panel-Kit-Caravan-Camping-Power-Battery-Charging-OZ/112639354923?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

77071770727707377074

[PeeBee]

Heaven help the poor bastard who is travelling behind you when that thing lets go at 100kph. I would recommend you remove before you kill someone to be honest.

[the evil twin]

Wot he said X 2 ^^^^

Unless you took the roof rails back to bare metal and prepped it correctly all you have done is glued the Panel to the Paint Clear Coat
The adhesive is construction grade but I'd be nervous about the paint letting go

[altech]

Heaven help the poor bastard who is travelling behind you when that thing lets go at 100kph. I would recommend you remove before you kill someone to be honest.

Hmmm I have 2 slips of 1400mm long beed of Silicone, the good stuff too and 600 mm at front stuck on too, it's seems pretty strong and very little air flow that go under the panel.

[PeeBee]

My comments stand. Take it down to VicRoads for an inspection or a VASS engineer for a second opinion, but tie a rope around the body and secure the panel first - believe me the air will peel that thing off your roof in no time. There is heaps of opportunity for air to get under it.

[Bidja]

Yeah suggest U mechanically fasten that down and provide some physical stand off clearance, so the back of the PV module can stay cooler (even more efficient than now).

[PeeBee]

I don't think it being industrial grade has much to do with it to be honest. The upward lift on the panel will put a massive load on the silicone. Its a sealer predominantly, can take some pressure externally in compression, but tension, not really, will take some shear along the long axis I agree. It needs some mechanical anchoring system like a frame and bolts.

[altech]

Funny all the Mounting video's on how to mount panels on caravan or Vans seem to use plastic corners .stuck with silicone as shown below, I believe I have more area in silicone than corner blocks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7hM_8tMFvc

[PeeBee]

Fair argument, maybe you are OK, I did some quick numbers and you have somewhere around 20kgs of lift on a 1m sq panel, depending on drag co-eff of 0.2 and standard air density at 100kphr. If you are certain the silastic will take that load then all good. I would not do it.

[GQtdauto]

The Glue they use for those brackets is an expensive Sikaflex type specially made for the job but depends on using a etch primer before application .

No way would I use anything less ,the three panels on the caravan I substituted the brackets for aluminium for greater coverage and an air gap for cooling .
Sikaflex for this is about $40 a tube and guaranteed for twenty years ,while we were on our trip earlier in the year I heard there was a fatality near Cairns? From a solar panel coming adrift and going through a car window .
Other thing I guess about a caravan over a car is it's not going as fast but now I wonder and hope the glue does hold .

[altech]

All Good , I'm hear your concern's and are going to put a pack rack bars on each end and bolt on to bars, just going to find something to suit the same profile height as the solar panel because I still want to get the patrol in the doorway of garage. this is why I haven't gone for a luggage type rack system that I wouldn't have the need for one in the first place. p.s. Car not moving on any trip in near future. the Solar system was to keep it alive. cheers Alex

[PeeBee]

Good news Alex, glad we could help. Phil

[the evil twin]

snip...while we were on our trip earlier in the year I heard there was a fatality near Cairns? From a solar panel coming adrift and going through a car window .


Yes, you are correct.

Happened around the middle of the year on the Bruce Hwy in FNQ.
Solar Panel flew off a Caravan and went thru the Windscreen of a Car.

[MB]

Crikey, that’s truly horrible to hear gents!
Slightly off track but an old surfer mate and I as ‘P’ platers accidentally speared a following cars windscreen with his lightweight fiberglass board on a 100kmph freeway in our 20’s. Have never used ‘Octopus Straps’ ever again and thankfully she was tailing us passenger less as it penetrated through to near the head rest position, scary scary lucky stuff for all involved that day :-(


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[Bidja]

All Good , I'm hear your concern's and are going to put a pack rack bars on each end and bolt on to bars, just going to find something to suit the same profile height as the solar panel because I still want to get the patrol in the doorway of garage. this is why I haven't gone for a luggage type rack system that I wouldn't have the need for one in the first place. p.s. Car not moving on any trip in near future. the Solar system was to keep it alive. cheers Alex

Alex, as you have glued the module down, guess it will stay (no air gap), not the best for cooling but they also can get pretty hot mounted to an iron roof (shed or house).

Think of maybe getting 4 gutter mount bracket (steel) similar to those used to mount/attach(bolt) to the ARB roof rack and modify them by under slinging a 2 lengths of aluminium hollow box section (say 40mm sq X 2.5mm), with spacers if req'd, going from the L-R hand side BRKTs (one both front and rear), passing over the top (each ends) of the aluminium panel frame extrusion and dropping down angle corner locating tabs that are attached to the aluminium rack hollow box section. This will prevent the panel from going Fwd, AFT, lifting and moving sideways. Use some rubber strip to protect frame/rack interface (no need to mechanically attach panel frame to rack box rail section).

Gosh mate, should have read your post a bit closer as U covered most of this.. b. glasses. All good.

[Bidja]

Crikey, that’s truly horrible to hear gents!
Slightly off track but an old surfer mate and I as ‘P’ platers accidentally speared a following cars windscreen with his lightweight fiberglass board on a 100kmph freeway in our 20’s. Have never used ‘Octopus Straps’ ever again and thankfully she was tailing us passenger less as it penetrated through to near the head rest position, scary scary lucky stuff for all involved that day :-(


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In the time back in mid 70's had 6 sticks (3 each side) on the 74 combi roof rack with single ockies F/R each side. Things U do haha

[Brissieboy]

Bottom line: IF it should come loose (or when if you prefer) and injure someone, insurance will wipe you and you would almost certainly end up in court. No different from an unsecured load and there are a few examples of that available.
It is really worth the risk - when the alternative is so simple and not very expensive.

[PeeBee]

There is a low profile Unistrut avail that is 41mm wide x 22mm high. Brackets can be sourced from a number of roofrack places, and all you need is an adapter to tie the two together - a bit lower profile than Bidja's shot, sits maybe 20mm off the top of the roof in the centre of the vehicle. Just another possibility perhaps?

[altech]

Thanks Guys for all your input , not in a hurry at moment, I think of something cheers Alex

[Cuppa]

Look at that video again. The adhesive used is not silicone, it's Sikaflex 11fc. Although sika recommend using their 252 product in conjunction with their primer, most folk find 11fc is fine for the job & much easier to use. The panels fitted to the roof of the canopy on our Patrol have no mechanical fixing, they were bolted to aluminium angle & the angle (along the 2 long sides of each panel) was glued to the roof with 11fc, with the areas of gluing having had the paint removed & pre-cleaned with isopropyl alcohol after having been taken back to bare aluminium. Most importantly (for strength/flexibility) the correct thickness of adhesive was maintained by using 3mm spacers. After 24 hours curing there is no way these would come off without the set adhesive being cut - and that would be a pretty tough assignment. Over the past 18 months they have travelled in Australia’s full range of temperatures & over plenty of rough kilometres, have been checked regularly & remain rock solid.

I'm sorry but I have to agree with others about the use of silicon & mounting on to paint. I wouldn't want to be travelling behind your car! I know it’s a pain, but the only safe thing to do is to remove the panel & start again. Live & learn!

When you do, I'd suggest that in the interests of solar panel efficiency, & the chance to kill two birds with one stone, that you increase the gap between panel & roof a little (25mm'ish). It will help to keep the panel cooler (& thus work better - probably only important if you will use the battery for anything else other than starting) & in a small way will help to keep the vehicle a tad cooler inside by creating a 'tropical roof '.

[MB]

Awesome proven information Cuppa mate and keep trucking outback strong good man!
My short term memory has been jogged thanks to your kind post of ‘Sikaflex 252’ being the hero to date for sure.
A ‘Big4’ (Winnebago style camping) neighbour recently had drop down side tables “glued” on all over its smooth etched exterior by professionals with 252.
Still does slightly worry me a bit as cool/clean rooms and ‘Sika’ was a past life gig of mine with customer needed time logged maintenance regimes an absolute must.
Just not sure how Burk & Public (Googled) warranties explain long term harsh usage good man!




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[Cuppa]

Mate of mine built his motor home body on the back of a 4wd Canter entirely of fibreglass sandwich panel. All glued with Sika, not a single mechanical fastener. Drove it overland to the uk via China, Mongolia, all the ‘Stan’s etc, then to Africa, & then back to Australia. 3 years full time on the road, taking the worst that could be thrown at it. Various repairs along
the way to vehicle, but not a single repair needed to the motor home body.
http://www.epicycles.com/Truck%20Blog/2010-01-01/2010-01-01.htm

[MB]

Absolutely truly awesome Rig Cuppa mate thanks again. Only meant in regards Sika and its full rooftop exposed 100kmph capabilities longterm and when exactly to schedule a reassessment over the years.


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[altech]

Hi Guys week on now, battery fully charged, my ? is what volts should the battery be at as the charge controller is showing 14.4 Volts. I'm thinking it's overcharging regards Alex

[threedogs]

Crikey, that’s truly horrible to hear gents!
Slightly off track but an old surfer mate and I as ‘P’ platers accidentally speared a following cars windscreen with his lightweight fiberglass board on a 100kmph freeway in our 20’s. Have never used ‘Octopus Straps’ ever again and thankfully she was tailing us passenger less as it penetrated through to near the head rest position, scary scary lucky stuff for all involved that day :-(


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What did you stick the board down with Bong glue.
Ocky straps should never been used down see how ppl still use them
As for the solar panel two Rola areo roof racks even 3 if you want
and bolt panel on using correct brackets.
Then there was louwnes at bathurst that wore someones wheel and tyre combo
14.4 sounds max a smart charger should stop charging at max imo

[the evil twin]

14.4 is too high for float charge on a wet lead acid.

13.5 is ideal, no more than 13.8. Floating any higher reduces the life of the Battery.

Your system may not be floating for a few reasons but most likely two are;
A cheap as shit Reg that doesn't have a float cycle
or
A parasitic load high enough to trick the Reg into thinking the Battery isn't charged yet.

Either way... 14.4 isn't good (great for charging a low Battery, crap for maintaining a charged one).

[Cuppa]

14.4v is OK & tells you the charger is doing its job.

14.4v is the voltage the charger should take the voltage up to on a wet or AGM type battery By only reading the voltage it is hard to know *how* full the battery is, but it will be at least 70% to 80% charged, possibly higher.

The way it works is that in bulk charge mode the charger gives the battery as much current (amps) as it can. This raises the voltage up to 14.4v (some may go to 14.5 or even 14.6, but 14.4 is the most common). When the battery reaches 14.4v the charger changes from bulk mode to absorption mode. Here it reduces the current whilst maintaining the 14.4v for a set period of time (how long varies from one charger manufacturer to another). After this set period the manufacturers determine that is sufficient to now consider the battery ‘full’, at which point the charger will drop into Float mode, where it reduces the voltage & holds the battery at a lower voltage - usually between 13.3v to 13.8v. The battery if left connected to the charger& no loads applied can remain at this voltage indefinitely. If a load is applied (something is switched on) the voltage will drop & the charger will kick into its charging cycle again.

Some of the fancier multi stage chargers have more than the three stages, but essentially they all work in much the same way.

EDIT Just read ET’s reply so need to add to mine to save confusion. IF as ET surmises, your battery *is* fully charged & not dropping into float mode, it either is t working properly or is not a smart charger. If it has been at 14.4v for more than 4 hours you should disconnect it from the charger & in future monitor the battery charging to ensure it is not left on too long. If the battery is a wet type battery, & it has been held at 14.4v for too long there is a good chance it will have lost fluid & needs to be topped up with distilled water to ensure the lead plates are fully covered. If this is what has happened investing in a smart charger (3 stage or multi stage) would be a good idea.

[the evil twin]

Cuppa... maaaate... I agree with what you say except for one thing.

He's had the sucker on a 200 watt panel for a week... if it isn't floating by now something is amiss and 14.4 all day long (obviously not at night) isn't doing the Battery any good . Less harm than going flat tho of course.

I float 2 x N70 wets on my Chev Cab Chassis with a 25 watt panel (well, my ex-Chev) and that was with all the normal fruit and a Codan HF parasitic drain
On the rare occasion I hook up my 100 blanket it would float in about 60 to 90 minutes

altech Uuummm, just had a thought, when are you checking the 14.4... first thing in the morning or end of day

[Cuppa]

Hi ET, I realised that when I saw your response, just after I posted mine. Have since added an edit to mine in the hope of avoiding confusion. Suspect it’s a cheap ‘dumb’ charger, although I did once have a supposed smart charger which obviously wasn’t, sold as being suitable for permanent long term connection to a motorcycle battery. Killed the battery stone dead, found the carcass bone dry after a couple of months.

ANOTHER EDIT :). If it’s the solar charger pictured earlier in the thread it should have a float mode, although mention of timer on its front case is a bit odd for a solar charger. Perhaps there is a parasitic drain & the reading is taken in the morning? Suggest battery be disconnected ( remove all connections except for charger, & then keep a regular check on battery voltage. If it reaches & remains at float voltage all is good. If there is a parasitic load (clock, radio on standby or whatever) you can then decide whether to disconnect it or not. If the voltage reading is fairly early in the morning, & you have a parasitic load using a bit of battery power overnight , AND the battery goes into float later in the day each day, then you don’t have anything to be concerned about.

[the evil twin]

No worries Cobber... tired of Mangoes and Mub Crab yet?

[VK2FMIA]

mention of timer on its front case is a bit odd for a solar charger.

Got the same regulator here Cuppa. It`s for the aux power out - can set it to turn your camp lights on after a certain period of time for example.

[Cuppa]

Got the same regulator here Cuppa. It`s for the aux power out - can set it to turn your camp lights on after a certain period of time for example.

Oh okay I haven’t seen that before, Although I have had a regulator which switched lights on and off automatically on dark and dawn.

[Cuppa]

No worries Cobber... tired of Mangoes and Mub Crab yet?

Is that even possible?

[altech]

Hi Guys, just gone out to car to check volts , battery saying 12.6 , so i don't think its say at 14.4 as earlier today. here's a video link below of the controller unit I have, I think it will be ok for my needs as the car sits for months with out being started regards Alex and thank for all your comments cheers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi7DtAM1D-U

[Cuppa]

Sounds ok.

Just be aware of the need to check battery fluid regularly. Suggest weekly to start with until you know what is required.
That charger will take the battery to 100% charge when the car is not used regularly. Wet batteries will bubble & gas when being fully charged & may lose fluid & need regular topping up as a result. Alternator charging is different, & only generally charges starter batteries to 70 or 80%, which doesn’t gas them. If you keep your battery fully charged & topped up it should give it a longer life.

[altech]

Sounds ok.

Just be aware of the need to check battery fluid regularly. Suggest weekly to start with until you know what is required.
That charger will take the battery to 100% charge when the car is not used regularly. Wet batteries will bubble & gas when being fully charged & may lose fluid & need regular topping up as a result. Alternator charging is different, & only generally charges starter batteries to 70 or 80%, which doesn’t gas them. If you keep your battery fully charged & topped up it should give it a longer life.

Thanks Cuppa good advise from your post , My battery is the maintenance free one that SuperCheap sell for 4X4 and boats

[altech]

My sparkie son in law, said to me to lower the hours rate per day to 6-8 hours and may save the battery from cooking, the unit has all the overload/charge features anyway

[Bidja]

As the vehicle sits for extended periods of time, have you considered putting in an isolator switch (prefer double pole) to disconnect the PV panels from the charging circuit, after a couple of days, when the battery has reach a full state of charge(let it float). This would avoid cycling the battery daily and then just monitor the battery weekly or what ever and charge when needed to maintain a good SOC.

[the evil twin]

Bwaaahahaha... anyone else notice old mate in the Vid likes to let his Propane bounce around in the same placcy box as his batteries?

[Bidja]

Well spotted, possible sympathetic detonation to happen here (maybe a cook off!!!). Everything is portable though, even the battery slides about and he might as well throw a couple spanners in also.

[altech]

Ok Guys, the rack system in place, this solar panel not going anyway regards Alex p.s. And Yes I made it myself,

7714977150

[altech]

Ok Guys, check battery this afternoon and is showing 13.7 because I set on the controller hours only at 2 hours per day, So I think I'm happy with that, not 14.4 as it was showing yesterday regards Alex

[Yeti's Beast]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2018/12/394.jpg
I was thinking of making one of these before I sold the Patrol

May still make one for the new ute[emoji106]


Proud BTrol Owner
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[altech]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2018/12/394.jpg
I was thinking of making one of these before I sold the Patrol

May still make one for the new ute[emoji106]


Proud BTrol Owner
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Looks good , whats that 2 panels of 200watt each regards Alex

[altech]

Hi Guys, just upgraded from a PWM to MPPT solar controller as this will be better for my needs and finally fitted my second battery that located in my draw unit and now have the dc to dc controller runing to charge the second battery. all seem to be working great. oh happy days of free energy from the Sun, :-)

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[Yeti's Beast]

I hope you have been keeping that battery charged because more than likely it’s stuffed. See the competition sticker in the front !
That ended June 2016


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[Yeti's Beast]

Looks good , whats that 2 panels of 200watt each regards Alex

No, they were 12v 180 watt


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[altech]

I hope you have been keeping that battery charged because more than likely it’s stuffed. See the competition sticker in the front !
That ended June 2016


Proud BTrol Owner
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all good on the second battery 13.4 V

[PeeBee]

Is that a wet cell battery? inside the cabin? Not a great idea. I had a calcium wet cell crap out and it filled the cabin with fumes and that means corrosion - yet to get a handle on the potential of what slow creeping damage I have to the electronics inside the car. Cleaned out MudRunnerTD sinus's!!!!

[MudRunnerTD]

Hi Guys, just upgraded from a PWM to MPPT solar controller as this will be better for my needs and finally fitted my second battery that located in my draw unit and now have the dc to dc controller runing to charge the second battery. all seem to be working great. oh happy days of free energy from the Sun, :-)

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Hi mate, good effort sorting all that out. I dont want to rain on your parade at all mate but a couple of comments for your consideration though. I think the cables coming off your Projector150 are very small and not big enough for a dual battery system beyond a trickle charge and i'd consider swapping them for something bigger. Also i note you have used domestic 240v 3core flex for your wiring. I have used this in a previous build thinking it was the go but it lacks flexibility and goes hard over time. It doesnt like vibration and lack efficient current flow on 12v. a fine multi strand will be far more flexible and provide much more efficient 12v Current flow. I would avoid using 240v anything on your car. It will probably get you years of service but maybe not.

[MudRunnerTD]

Is that a wet cell battery? inside the cabin? Not a great idea. I had a calcium wet cell crap out and it filled the cabin with fumes and that means corrosion - yet to get a handle on the potential of what slow creeping damage I have to the electronics inside the car. Cleaned out MudRunnerTD sinus's!!!!

Hideous indeed. If that is a Wetcell in the car then you need to rethink that for sure. I remember the day that was venting into the car. OMG! was terrible. Also another forum member matfew had a wetcell explode in the back of his GQ on the way to Licola a couple of years ago. it was in the rear area and his daughter was in the back seat. he was Very Very lucky.

[threedogs]

If you're up Deer Park way I have too Rhino aero bars you can have,
You can even install a light bar underneath.

[altech]

Is that a wet cell battery? inside the cabin? Not a great idea. I had a calcium wet cell crap out and it filled the cabin with fumes and that means corrosion - yet to get a handle on the potential of what slow creeping damage I have to the electronics inside the car. Cleaned out MudRunnerTD sinus's!!!!

Hmmm, it's sealed maintenance free battery, So whats wrong with that ?

[altech]

If you're up Deer Park way I have too Rhino aero bars you can have,
You can even install a light bar underneath.

Cheers thanks for the offer, the aluminium tubing is very strong and my custom made roof brackets will do the jobs as not much weight in all .

[mudski]

Hmmm, it's sealed maintenance free battery, So whats wrong with that ?

If its a lead acid battery even though its sealed it will have a breather. As far as I understand. As when charging the battery will need to vent off the poisonous gas it will, create. If the battery is housed in a box with sufficient ventilation to the outside of the vehicle then it might be good to use.

[Yeti's Beast]

Can I just add something here. That battery is not sealed , back then Century didn’t have a sealed battery. They fitted a fake long cap over the actual battery caps. It’s hinged
If you lift it up with your fingers, you will see the 6 caps. Open them up and check the water level because a lot of these batteries run dry prematurely, killing them.
Century now have a proper sealed version but it still vents and should not be used in a confined space.
Agm, Gel or Lithium are the only safe options to be used inside a car/ caravan.
After 30+ years selling batteries I have learnt a trick or 2


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[altech]

Can I just add something here. That battery is not sealed , back then Century didn’t have a sealed battery. They fitted a fake long cap over the actual battery caps. It’s hinged
If you lift it up with your fingers, you will see the 6 caps. Open them up and check the water level because a lot of these batteries run dry prematurely, killing them.
Century now have a proper sealed version but it still vents and should not be used in a confined space.
Agm, Gel or Lithium are the only safe options to be used inside a car/ caravan.
After 30+ years selling batteries I have learnt a trick or 2


Proud BTrol Owner
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can't fine any caps on top , just a glass indicator saying good to go. anyway thanks for everone input and l have ordered a deep cycle sealed battery that is safe inside the cabin , here the link

https://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/batteries/deep-cycle-agm/130ah-12v-eclipse-agm-deep-cycle-battery

[Yeti's Beast]

can't fine any caps on top , just a glass indicator saying good to go. anyway thanks for everone input and l have ordered a deep cycle sealed battery that is safe inside the cabin , here the link

https://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/batteries/deep-cycle-agm/130ah-12v-eclipse-agm-deep-cycle-battery

Very good
That’s heaps safer than having that time bomb in the back.
Check out this video and see if your old battery is like this one
https://youtu.be/r4StoOMsrBw


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[PeeBee]

There will be a vent hole, maybe only 1mm diameter. If you are lucky they will be a vent with a small diameter spigot, so you can slip a plastic hose on to vent externally. My big wet cell - also maintenance free had this however I didn't see it until after the event. I think I simply had the wrong battery for the duty - guessing the cells themselves could not take the vibration and collapsed? Anyway, its just a situation to be aware of and if you can sort something out for normal venting I guess thats your call. My lesson is learnt and never again!

[Hodge]

Some great feedback and suggestions here in your setup mate. Yetis Beast helped me out big time with batteries / suggestions. Knows his s#it.

I will reinforce what Mudrunner said.
Get some proper bigger and thin stranded auto cable mate.
Think of your current setup as fieries turning up to fight a fire and only having your Bunnings 10mm garden hose as a pressure supply.

DC electrons don't like being pushed through long solid metals (larger strands).

Even if you don't need high amp demand, still helps heaps having larger cables making sure it is properly fused to size / demand.

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[Brissieboy]

DC electrons don't like being pushed through long solid metals (larger strands).
Actually the individual conductor size has no impact for DC or low frequencies. It only effects the flexibility or ability to withstand movement or vibration.
It is only with high frequencies where 'skin effect' occurs which make the conductors appear electrically smaller and multiple small strands or better than fewer large ones.
It is primarily the overall size or cross-sectional area, but also flexibility, that is important here.

[Yeti's Beast]

So basically use some 6mm cable and you will be apples. Make sure you use fuses too


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[Hodge]

Actually the individual conductor size has no impact for DC or low frequencies. It only effects the flexibility or ability to withstand movement or vibration.
It is only with high frequencies where 'skin effect' occurs which make the conductors appear electrically smaller and multiple small strands or better than fewer large ones.
It is primarily the overall size or cross-sectional area, but also flexibility, that is important here.Also not to forget is the contact end , crimped , lugged etc...
With smaller stranded stuff , which is softer and has the ability to flatten under a crimp providing a more intimate connection , more strands in surface contact with the lug / crimp.
This in turn helps reduce V loss.

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[altech]

Never buy cheap Ebay Solar controller as I installed this one a week ago and my car battery was down to 10.4 v. not happy Jane. So look for this Fake " MppT " scam on ebay and don't buy. I'm leaning as I go. cheers Alex . p.s. the cheap PWM controller when I started this project , did charge the battery. just saying :-)

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[altech]

Hi Guys, did some searching for a better MTTP charge controller, found that EPEVER brand have good feed back on them. found this WA company that sells them and they are waterproof too. win win . So I ordered the 5206 BP 20A & Bluetooth module to talk to it. from link below cheers Alex
https://offroadliving.com.au/collections/solar-charger

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[Brissieboy]

A couple of things:
- A lot of controllers sold as MPPT are actually PWM. The difference in efficiency is not huge, but they are definitely more efficient. To get the best efficiency they should to be designed for a particular panel as these vary fairly widely in the maximum power specs (ie max power voltage and max power current) so they are usually just a compromise. And it is not easy to tell the difference.
- Almost all controllers will drain some power from the battery if left connected when there is no input from the solar panels. This varies from a few milliAmps to several hundred milliAmps in the ones I have checked, so it is definitely best to disconnect from the battery when not in use for some time.
- Most controllers require the battery to be connected before the solar panels, and disconnected after the panels.
BTW almost all solar panels on fleabay will never achieve their stated power output regardless of the type of coltroller - basic rule of thumb is 1,000watts per square meter max from the sun multiplied by the panel's efficiency (currently around 17% but some better ones are a little higher) or about 170w per square metre of actual panel, not including frame.

[the evil twin]

100% agree ^^^^


Rule of thumb for a layman to check if a Controller really is a true MPPT...

Does it cost around $100 or upwards of $200 for a "name brand" AND does the max input voltage spec exceed 30 Volts?

If the answer is Yes then it is almost def a true MPPT, if the answer is No then it most likely is not.

Do you "need" an MPPT or will a PWM do the Job?
PWM is equal or in some cases better than MPPT if:
- the panels are of similar voltage to the load IE "12 Volt" panels and 12 volt battery bank... (if you run MPPT it is often cheaper and more logical to run "48 Volt" house panels instead of "12 Volt" panels)
- you have good solar irradiance IE direct sunlight and panel facing the sun (MPPT is better if cloudy, off angle, etc)
- panel temp is 40 ish to 80 ish deg (MPPT is better at very low or very high temps).

When all things are in its favour MPPT can be 25 to 30% better but if the above applies the difference can sometimes be barely noticeable between a $20 PWM and a $200 MPPT.
That means in many cases if you keep the same array and upgrade the controller you may get little change but if you keep the PWM controller and spend the money on increasing the array wattage you would be much better off.

[altech]

Hi Guys, the Big and bloody heavy battery arrived today, hmmm did I mention heavy lol. Did some improvements / upgrades to the battery wiring. Now waiting on the real MPPT charger to arrive. keep you posted regards Alex

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[Yeti's Beast]

Where I work we sell household / commercial solar equipment for off grid , grid tie solar etc.
We only use Morningstar controllers as they work. Yes they cost a lot more than most but when you need a controller to look after 600 volts of solar input, you want the best there is.
My camper is set up with 2x 130 watt 12volt in parallel , Suntech panels and controlled by a Morningstar PWM Prostar 30 amp controller. It charges 2 x 120 ah agm batteries without any problems and been set up that was since 2005
It doesn’t pay to buy cheap sometimes.
Think how much is my car/ caravan worth to you?


Proud BTrol Owner
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[MudRunnerTD]

Hi Guys, the Big and bloody heavy battery arrived today, hmmm did I mention heavy lol. Did some improvements / upgrades to the battery wiring. Now waiting on the real MPPT charger to arrive. keep you posted regards Alex

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Looking heaps better mate. Well done on taking advice. Nice job mate.

[Ben-e-boy]

Hi Guys, the Big and bloody heavy battery arrived today, hmmm did I mention heavy lol. Did some improvements / upgrades to the battery wiring. Now waiting on the real MPPT charger to arrive. keep you posted regards Alex

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I have a few Questions.
How did you crimp the larger cables?
What the go with that figure 8 cable to the the Negative and what size is the main negative?

[altech]

I have a few Questions.
How did you crimp the larger cables?
What the go with that figure 8 cable to the the Negative and what size is the main negative?

1/ Soldered in like you would a Anderson plug. 2/ 8 gauge wire is neg and it's connected to second battery from that to my rear electric cargo barrier frame work which is grounded to the body of car.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TceKoWcsjY4

[Ben-e-boy]

Ah ok. That's why it doesn't look like they are crimped

[altech]

Hi Guys, Installed my Real MPPT controller today and works great, it does have a add on Bluetooth receiver that connect's to my phone. in the pic I have changed the wiring again lol regards Alex
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[altech]

And Yes I have MT50 receiver too.

[MudRunnerTD]

1/ Soldered in like you would a Anderson plug. 2/ 8 gauge wire is neg and it's connected to second battery from that to my rear electric cargo barrier frame work which is grounded to the body of car.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TceKoWcsjY4

Wow the Cargo Barrier is pretty kool mate. What glass did you use? Assume it is profiled right? Well done mate. Fair effort indeed.

Can you post a pic zoomed out a little so we can see it up and down and maybe half up?

[MudRunnerTD]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/04/68.jpg

You have got to fix that though mate, thats junk. You can do much better than that bud. Just say'n

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[altech]

Wow the Cargo Barrier is pretty kool mate. What glass did you use? Assume it is profiled right? Well done mate. Fair effort indeed.

Can you post a pic zoomed out a little so we can see it up and down and maybe half up?

Not Glass, but 10mm plastic . went to dealer, he had a off cut $50 bucks, then I cut it to size

[altech]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/04/68.jpg

You have got to fix that though mate, thats junk. You can do much better than that bud. Just say'n

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Yes did see this after the photo was taken, cheers Alex

[rusty_nail]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2019/04/68.jpg

You have got to fix that though mate, thats junk. You can do much better than that bud. Just say'n

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

im sure i have seen the equivalent on your beast? come on mate, not everyone is perfect

[Yeti's Beast]

im sure i have seen the equivalent on your beast? come on mate, not everyone is perfect

Don’t dare say that on P4x4 lol


Proud BTrol Owner
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[rusty_nail]

Don’t dare say that on P4x4 lol


Proud BTrol Owner
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

i already have my flame suit on mate haha

[MudRunnerTD]

im sure i have seen the equivalent on your beast? come on mate, not everyone is perfect

Indeed mate, not sure about an exposed loose positive but some shitty wiring for sure. I have spent months pulling junk out of the GQ and spent 6 hours yesterday trying to rewite the back tail light loom of the GQ. Got to make it better. Always. Got to make sure old mate doesnt burn his car down when we can fix it easily. Cant let that go. Easily fixed.

[altech]

Wow the Cargo Barrier is pretty kool mate. What glass did you use? Assume it is profiled right? Well done mate. Fair effort indeed.

Can you post a pic zoomed out a little so we can see it up and down and maybe half up?

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[MudRunnerTD]

Nice. Does it lock into something at the top to take the load shift in an accident? obviously dont just want it to fold forward. Does it vibrate with the doof doof going?

[rusty_nail]

Indeed mate, not sure about an exposed loose positive but some shitty wiring for sure. I have spent months pulling junk out of the GQ and spent 6 hours yesterday trying to rewite the back tail light loom of the GQ. Got to make it better. Always. Got to make sure old mate doesnt burn his car down when we can fix it easily. Cant let that go. Easily fixed.

for sure mate =D

[altech]

Nice. Does it lock into something at the top to take the load shift in an accident? obviously dont just want it to fold forward. Does it vibrate with the doof doof going?

Mud mate it's pretty solid, did I mention 10mm perplex , almost bullet proof .....lol I'm 57 and I like the Hip Hop stuff.... Keeping it real / Peace Out :-)

p.s. I do like to go to Bunning for those things you can't put in the back if there was a cage setup. I'm thinking alway out of the square .

[altech]

Hi guys, ADO today , So I finished up the Solar Switch Board located just below the back of rear seat. when seat is folded down you can see the gauges for both battery's.


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