HR trucks

[dom14]

Hey Guys,

Can any of you guys with HR license advise me about the possibility of getting it the first time for a bloke
with no prior "non synchromesh" experience?

At this stage I am not considering LR or MR 'cos I think(I believe) the money's better spend on HR 'cos there is not much difference in cost, and the HR is more usable.

I've driven up to three tonne single axle trucks without issues, including backing up, so I'm pretty ok with that, including manual gears.

Armstrong fellas in Thomastown kinda 'pushing' for "synchormesh" telling me it's hard to pass "non-synchromesh" or trying to discourage me from going for non-synchro.

What is your opinion on that?!! Considering the cost of it, I am thinking it's better to go with the highest possible non restricted license, but...

Do I need some prior experience with a non-synchromesh truck with a mate or something before going in for the course with folks like Armstrong or similar accredited providers?
I roughly understand non-synchromesh means 'double clutching' and as many gears as 18. When combined with other aspects of passing a big truck road test, I guess it is challenging, but with practice during a two day course, it should be ok or should it not??!!!!

Any tips, tricks, advice and warnings would be great.

Thanx
Dom

[the evil twin]

HR Trucks (Road Ranger non-synchro) are getting less common day by day.

Some Truck Schools will give students a crack at HR if you want to try it and if you aren't up to it then drop back to HR -A or HR -B.

On your HR assessment if you blow two gear changes or one gear change and have to stop and restart then thats that.

You then have to fork out extra dosh for another assessment in a different category either HR -A (auto) or HR-B (auto and synchro) or try HR again.
Most reputable schools won't let you try an assessment unless they think you are ready.

[MB]

Good on you Dom mate, earning tickets (licences) can be a great valuable thing in life!
I would say the blokes at Armstong’s are advising you correctly mate. Only MR legally still under my belt from when I was a young bloke and TBH have never found the need to go over 15T in my game.
If the cost these days for HR were the same as MR then would go for it mate!
In regards ‘crash’ non-synchro box, unless your future plans or a job offer was on the cards then again Armstrong’s would be suggesting well for a synchro licence being enough I would agree.
Have only ever mucked around in an old mates Scania on backroads and reckon dozens more hours for me to pass in this day and age would be needed.
Good luck mate, keep us posted with the good news :-) !!




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[MB]

Whoops, typing same time as ET, please do listen to ET over me :-) !


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[the evil twin]

Whoops, typing same time as ET, please do listen to ET over me :-) !


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Pffft... your post has as good info as mine Cobber

[MB]

Cheers Cobber :-) It has been a few decades since my test, up to date info is great always ;-)


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[MudRunnerTD]

Look into Government subsidies for your Truck License as a Re-skill qualifies you for subsidy. My Dad got it for free. If its free then go for Gold.

Non-Syncro is pretty basic once you have the hang of it. As ET says though plenty of Companies have moved away from Non-syncro boxes in their fleet for this reason so you need to figure out if it really is a limitation. I have unrestricted and was driving a Non Syncro HR for 8 years and really enjoyed changing gears. My Company is now moving to Auto boxes as the licenses are easier to get.

It really is Armstrongs Job to get you through and give you the skills. I would start your training with the Non-Syncro and if you havent got the hang by Lunch on day 2 then test in a Syncro box. the assessor will know what the right choice is. If you dont even try you will never know though and to go back and get that restriction removed you have to retest and retrain.

[Hodge]

Just got for it mate. Nothing to lose. I love driving non Synchro. Just something about it, feels "trucky" and more powerful. We have a few trucks left in the yard with Eaton Road ranger boxes. 8 speed shifts, with Lo/Lo., and I am pretty sure im the only one who puts their hand up to drive one out. I love it.
Pretty much got clutchless changes down pat, when the box is fully warm.

When you go for training drives etc, the assessors will see whether you're cool with it or not.
When I went for my semi/artic, and b/double, I was shit out of luck as I was in a different truck just about every day throughout the 4 day course...
You get used to one truck and find the sweet rev range spots and then the next day its all from scratch lol.

When I was at training school recently for mobile crane refreshers, their truck license area was like Bangladesh ....

[Brissieboy]

For what it's worth, I reckon you should go for the crash box. If you are going to drive a truck, you will almost certainly come up against a crash box at some stage.
People get scared of the number of gears and the high/low range, but it really isn't rocket science. It will take a bit of practice but it will probably surprise you how easily it come to you.
Your first session(s) should be simple gear changes up and down, up and down, up and down, etc, 3, 4, 5, 6 which is the top 2 in low range then the lower 2 in high range (12 speed road ranger). There is a 'splitter' as well but that is a piece of cake. After some experience out in the real world you will probably do most of your changes without even using the clutch.
And definitely go for HR.
If you get an open licence (not auto only) you will never have to do it again. Upgrading can be done in an auto as you have already proven your ability to handle the crash box.
I have open MC and some years experience up to and including road trains.

[MB]

Good man BB ;-)!



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[dom14]

Good on you Dom mate, earning tickets (licences) can be a great valuable thing in life!
I would say the blokes at Armstong’s are advising you correctly mate. Only MR legally still under my belt from when I was a young bloke and TBH have never found the need to go over 15T in my game.
If the cost these days for HR were the same as MR then would go for it mate!
In regards ‘crash’ non-synchro box, unless your future plans or a job offer was on the cards then again Armstrong’s would be suggesting well for a synchro licence being enough I would agree.
Have only ever mucked around in an old mates Scania on backroads and reckon dozens more hours for me to pass in this day and age would be needed.
Good luck mate, keep us posted with the good news :-) !!




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Hey MB,

Thanx for the advice mate.
The only issue is that it was a girl that gave me the advice to go with synchromesh, not a bloke.
Since she was at the front desk dealing with guys who come for the tests(and gals occasionally I reckon for bus licenses)
her answers and warning should carry some good weight. But, when I asked her definitive questions like if she has any examples or stats in their system or her memory about guys failing the HR with nonsynchromesh, she couldn't answer, so I insisted(to her) I better go for non-synchro and get it over with since I won't have any restrictions and that would boost my chances of any truckie jobs(hopefully).
I have been considering going for HR 'cos of having to earn some part time cash while doing other things that doesn't generate any cash. I dunno whether there is such thing called part time truckie, but HR license is required to drive metro busses as well(Apparently, but probably non-synchro or synchro isn't necessary 'cos all of them are auto).

[dom14]

For what it's worth, I reckon you should go for the crash box. If you are going to drive a truck, you will almost certainly come up against a crash box at some stage.
People get scared of the number of gears and the high/low range, but it really isn't rocket science. It will take a bit of practice but it will probably surprise you how easily it come to you.
Your first session(s) should be simple gear changes up and down, up and down, up and down, etc, 3, 4, 5, 6 which is the top 2 in low range then the lower 2 in high range (12 speed road ranger). There is a 'splitter' as well but that is a piece of cake. After some experience out in the real world you will probably do most of your changes without even using the clutch.
And definitely go for HR.
If you get an open licence (not auto only) you will never have to do it again. Upgrading can be done in an auto as you have already proven your ability to handle the crash box.
I have open MC and some years experience up to and including road trains.

Cool, thanx mate. and thanx for the encouragement.
Another thing is that if I go for auto or synchro and later wanna upgrade, the cost will be pretty much the same as doing it all over again, which is another thing that made me wanna go for HR non-synchro.
And I'm loving the term you just introduced me to, the "crash box". :D :thumbup:

[MB]

Farkin Old Inter Acco on da Newell highway run can be fun with a funny farkin stuck split diff AB :-)



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[dom14]

Just got for it mate. Nothing to lose. I love driving non Synchro. Just something about it, feels "trucky" and more powerful. We have a few trucks left in the yard with Eaton Road ranger boxes. 8 speed shifts, with Lo/Lo., and I am pretty sure im the only one who puts their hand up to drive one out. I love it.
Pretty much got clutchless changes down pat, when the box is fully warm.

When you go for training drives etc, the assessors will see whether you're cool with it or not.
When I went for my semi/artic, and b/double, I was shit out of luck as I was in a different truck just about every day throughout the 4 day course...
You get used to one truck and find the sweet rev range spots and then the next day its all from scratch lol.

When I was at training school recently for mobile crane refreshers, their truck license area was like Bangladesh ....

I've lived & driven in south Asian countries and I know what you mean. It's great practice 'cos you have to watch out for pot holes in every square foot while blokes cutting you off all the time. The demand of focus was intense. It says they have no road rules, but that's not true. They do have rules, it's all in their heads, not in the books. :D ;)

I've never owned an auto vehicle all my life and only driven a one once or twice when I had to in jobs and helping mates. I've been manual gear guy and hoping to stay that way even if I make it to the geriatric age group. :)

[Rumcajs]

I'd go for full HR license aka "crashbox". In any case you will have mandatory "log book" training anyway so instructor will pass you as you progress through. To only do sychro or auto box is in fashion but you will get condition on your license or handicap so will not be able to drive anything non synchros. Do it once do it right. Crash boxes are not as difficult as some make it so, hardest part is to get used the clutch pedal operation that is you do not de-clutch fully to the floor (clutch brake will engage) stuffing the gear changes.

Yes its true "manual Roadrangers" boxes are pretty much rare these days, the uptake of automated ones is basically 100 to 1 so unless you'll get in to older clunker, last 5 years of trucking is mostly auto shift boxes.

I must admit I avoid crash boxes these days as driving auto shifts (even non Road ranger based) is so trivial and easy that even synchro manual is a chore. Every truck maker has them and some are better then others.....

If you can afford it go full.

Regards

[dom14]

Look into Government subsidies for your Truck License as a Re-skill qualifies you for subsidy. My Dad got it for free. If its free then go for Gold.

Non-Syncro is pretty basic once you have the hang of it. As ET says though plenty of Companies have moved away from Non-syncro boxes in their fleet for this reason so you need to figure out if it really is a limitation. I have unrestricted and was driving a Non Syncro HR for 8 years and really enjoyed changing gears. My Company is now moving to Auto boxes as the licenses are easier to get.

It really is Armstrongs Job to get you through and give you the skills. I would start your training with the Non-Syncro and if you havent got the hang by Lunch on day 2 then test in a Syncro box. the assessor will know what the right choice is. If you dont even try you will never know though and to go back and get that restriction removed you have to retest and retrain.

Thanx mate.
When I did my bikie license with them, they didn't help a lot, but didn't let me fail either. :)
I reckon the instructors don't like seeing the same guy again another day and make sure the guys get through
the stuff to the minimum requirements to pass it. They were also sympathetic with migrants that weren't good with
the MCQ test on the computer.
Yeah, the girl at Armstrong told me they are not that common these days

The advice is obviously unanimous here, that I should go for non-synchro and see how I go.
I will do a bit of homework before and see if I can find a mate with a non-synchro truck that can give me a go in a paddock or something. :)

[dom14]

I'd go for full HR license aka "crashbox". In any case you will have mandatory "log book" training anyway so instructor will pass you as you progress through. To only do sychro or auto box is in fashion but you will get condition on your license or handicap so will not be able to drive anything non synchros. Do it once do it right. Crash boxes are not as difficult as some make it so, hardest part is to get used the clutch pedal operation that is you do not de-clutch fully to the floor (clutch brake will engage) stuffing the gear changes.

Yes its true "manual Roadrangers" boxes are pretty much rare these days, the uptake of automated ones is basically 100 to 1 so unless you'll get in to older clunker, last 5 years of trucking is mostly auto shift boxes.

I must admit I avoid crash boxes these days as driving auto shifts (even non Road ranger based) is so trivial and easy that even synchro manual is a chore. Every truck maker has them and some are better then others.....

If you can afford it go full.

Regards

Thanx mate.
Price wise it's not much of a difference between non-synchro, synchro and auto.
It's that the chick at Armstrong warned me about the possibility(higher one according to her) of failing it.
I'll try not to take truckie advice from a chick next time, even in a truckie training yard. ;) :D

[the evil twin]

snip...
I'll try not to take truckie advice from a chick next time, even in a truckie training yard. ;) :D

Hehehe... over here in WA it pays not to be too quick to rule out Trucking advice from the fairer sex... unless you speak Bengali

[dom14]

Hehehe... over here in WA it pays not to be too quick to rule out Trucking advice from the fairer sex... unless you speak Bengali

Yes, and it is in the middle of the summer after all. We do need all the 'advice' we can get from chicks during this time of the year. ;)

[Tip12345]

oh dear,
I just had to do a refresher for my HR at work .. the first thing my Teacher Examiner said to me if you do not use your clutch every change instant failure.
and then gave me a thing to read from Fuller transmissions . I had a bit of trouble remembering to clutch .. but got it . It was a new Isuzu with an 18 speed . . the highlight was a few hours on the skid pan going sideways ..

[Brissieboy]

oh dear,
I just had to do a refresher for my HR at work .. the first thing my Teacher Examiner said to me if you do not use your clutch every change instant failure.
and then gave me a thing to read from Fuller transmissions . I had a bit of trouble remembering to clutch .. but got it . It was a new Isuzu with an 18 speed . . the highlight was a few hours on the skid pan going sideways ..

And 'palming' the wheel is another big no-no at testing time but done by virtually everyone on the road.

[dom14]

And 'palming' the wheel is another big no-no at testing time but done by virtually everyone on the road.

What is "palming the wheel" mate?

[the evil twin]

Using pressure from the palm of your hand to 'spin' the wheel rather than gripping it in your hands

[Brissieboy]

Using pressure from the palm of your hand to 'spin' the wheel rather than gripping it in your hands

Yep, that's it. Trucks have quite a few of turns of the steering wheel from lock to lock so it is MUCH quicker and easier while maneuvering to just rotate it using the palm of your hand than taking the full grip required by those in authority.

[dom14]

Using pressure from the palm of your hand to 'spin' the wheel rather than gripping it in your hands

That's good to know. I've seen some truckies do that with their super super power steering wheels.

I'm trying to remember whether I do that. I don't do that with the Patrol, 'cos the power steering is bit too tight to do that. I have a vague memory of "palming the wheel" of some forklifts when I was driving a one ages ago.

[dom14]

Yep, that's it. Trucks have quite a few of turns of the steering wheel from lock to lock so it is MUCH quicker and easier while maneuvering to just rotate it using the palm of your hand than taking the full grip required by those in authority.

Ok, cool. If I understood you correctly, it's ok and sometime necessary in the real world, but don't do it with the testing instructor?

[Brissieboy]

Ok, cool. If I understood you correctly, it's ok and sometime necessary in the real world, but don't do it with the testing instructor?

Well it's not really necessary, just convenient. And it is definitely NOT OK - you should have both hands with a good grip of the wheel at all times except when you need to do something like change gear, use indicators, wipers, jakes, etc. This is just another example of where the real world and the rules clash a bit.
It is also a no-no to leave your hand resting on the gear lever when not actually changing gear for the same reason.
Even in a car you are supposed to have both hands on the wheel even when stopped at lights or stationary in traffic etc.

[dom14]

Well it's not really necessary, just convenient. And it is definitely NOT OK - you should have both hands with a good grip of the wheel at all times except when you need to do something like change gear, use indicators, wipers, jakes, etc. This is just another example of where the real world and the rules clash a bit.
It is also a no-no to leave your hand resting on the gear lever when not actually changing gear for the same reason.
Even in a car you are supposed to have both hands on the wheel even when stopped at lights or stationary in traffic etc.

Totally agree. We(speaking for myself) develop bad habits. I tend to rest my right arm on the door rest and steer. I rarely use both hands to steer unless it's critical, and only realize the importance of having both hands in an emergency situation where I only have a fraction of a second to correct the direction by steering the right way. I guess we don't see Formula 1 - Grand Prix drivers with a one hand on the wheel for a good reason. Faster the speed, more important it is obviously. I've never seen my military trained cousin driving the way I do. I think the bigger the vehicle, having both arms on the steering wheel becomes more important, obviously.

[the evil twin]

Size and speed of the vehicle is totally irrelevant.

If you don't have both hands on the wheel you do NOT have control of the vehicle.
Only exception is if you need a hand to operate another function of the vehicle like gears or whatever and the hand should be returned to the wheel ASAP.

Failure to maintain control is an immediate 'not yet competent' on any and all Students I assess in Driving Assessments.
... and adjusting mirrors etc MUST be done prior to moving off or you get a NYC for that as well as 'Failure to maintain' for taking a hand off when moving.

[4bye4]

Hey Dom, I usually stay out of these things as more people usually just means more opinions and no answers. In this case though ill offer the following opinion. Your idea about "resting" your hands and not using both hands on the wheel is a bad idea, not just in an emergency situation. In my opinion, if you are "resting" your hands, you are probably also "resting" the rest of your body including your brain, thus increasing your reaction time, potentially making a minor incident, like a sudden jar from the road, or a tyre blow out into and emergency while you try and figure out what happened and then get your hands onto the wheel to correct. It is not only speed that plays a part in this as you quote the example of F1, but all driving when you may encounter a sudden change of condition, as a tyre blow out , or off road in a descent or ascent when a drop off or large rock can change your direction unless you are both mentally and physically ready to react. Falling off the track off road at 2km per hour can kill you as effectively as driving off the track in F1 at 200km per hour. In other words you really should be as alert and ready to react in all driving conditions, and not "resting" behind the wheel. I have been driving for 50 years and have been involved in 6 crashes. Two of these were my fault, and both caused by inattention, that is I was mentally somewhere else instead of behind the wheel and failed to react to a situation.
Bottom line in my opinion is drive the way you do your test or when you think the boss is watching.

[dom14]

Hey Dom, I usually stay out of these things as more people usually just means more opinions and no answers. In this case though ill offer the following opinion. Your idea about "resting" your hands and not using both hands on the wheel is a bad idea, not just in an emergency situation. In my opinion, if you are "resting" your hands, you are probably also "resting" the rest of your body including your brain, thus increasing your reaction time, potentially making a minor incident, like a sudden jar from the road, or a tyre blow out into and emergency while you try and figure out what happened and then get your hands onto the wheel to correct. It is not only speed that plays a part in this as you quote the example of F1, but all driving when you may encounter a sudden change of condition, as a tyre blow out , or off road in a descent or ascent when a drop off or large rock can change your direction unless you are both mentally and physically ready to react. Falling off the track off road at 2km per hour can kill you as effectively as driving off the track in F1 at 200km per hour. In other words you really should be as alert and ready to react in all driving conditions, and not "resting" behind the wheel. I have been driving for 50 years and have been involved in 6 crashes. Two of these were my fault, and both caused by inattention, that is I was mentally somewhere else instead of behind the wheel and failed to react to a situation.
Bottom line in my opinion is drive the way you do your test or when you think the boss is watching.

I agree. Solutions are what we need.

[Clunk]

I agree. Solutions are what we need.Don't need solutions, just need to keep 2 hands on the wheel and concentrate on what you're doing.... Or maybe have a look at fitting a safety cut out switch for when you have taken a hand off the wheel

[Avo]

Don't need solutions, just need to keep 2 hands on the wheel and concentrate on what you're doing.... Or maybe have a look at fitting a safety cut out switch for when you have taken a hand off the wheel

and no 457 or sandle wearing vegan fukka's they out of control all the time