Transfer case wind up?

[PeeBee]

My GQ patrol is fitted with the TD42 gearbox and the original transfer case from the TD28 engine, and running behind a Chev Diesel V8. On the last two times out with it I have had difficulty getting the transfer case lever to de-select from low range. This is a total pain as typically I need to drive it backwards and forwards then it comes free, however I am unsure if this is the actual solution or coincidental. Of greatest concern is the PTO winch which needs to have the transfer case in neutral before locking in the winch PTO - this is a bit different also as the PTO drives a HYDRAULIC pump off the gearbox; I needed to use the winch this last couple of days after blowing a tyre on a bad section of track and was too steep to crange it in-situ.

I am wondering what could be causing this? I note the front tyres are more worn than the rears, rears almost brand new, fronts maybe 30,000klm on them, Wrangler MTR, so tread depth would differ by maybe 5-6mm front to rear? I use the diff locks a bit also, so everything gets locked up to speak and can only allow on track slip to stock the wind-up? Has anyone else had this problem and what resolved it? I had the same trouble today just before ending the track, and backed up and forward for maybe 100m, then I did put the gearbox into neutral and foot off the clutch, and transfer lever slipped out without issue - wondering if there is a link between any of this?

[the evil twin]

Prob the worst vehicle for windup I drive regularly is the SES 70 series 6 Cyl Land Cruiser Troopies, pretty much get it every time (no lockers fitted).
Only method without lifting wheels I know to 'clear' the windup is... Wheels straight on any loose surface, select reverse gear, apply a 'gentle' push the the selector, let the clutch out and start reversing and if they don't pop out within 5 metres, select first and repeat.

Never had to travel 100 metres in anything but we did have a busted arse Rodeo that would sometimes need a couple of attempts
Transfer windup is a 'front to rear' thing so you can also get rid of it by jacking one side with diff unlocked.

As for getting stuck and having excessive windup and then needing neutral to run a PTO... well, uuummm,... comes under the 'sux to be you' category I s'pose.
I don't know of a solution to that situation

Latest gen electronic stuff is easy, select mode, drive till the light goes out/comes on (the old 'what you don't know won't hurt you' solution).
Ford Rangers will often take a while to think it thru

[the godfather]

Well, I am sorry to say this, but there is no fix for this issue that I am aware off. The problem is actually across all breeds. Worst I have encountered was a Pajero, took us an hour to get the dam thing free. Ended up having to jack it up and let them all spin.PTO driven winches are great as far a torque goes, but as you rightly point out, the transfer box needs to be in neutral. This is a problem if you have wind up issues. By the way, the HJ-75 cruisers have this same issue. No easy fix, but if you want to keep using the winch, maybe remove the PTO, pump, and hydraulic motor and replace it with an electric motor. If it is a Thomas or APE winch you can by a 12v motor that will bolt straight on to where the hydraulic motor connects to the winch.

Side note: Hydraulic pump could be useful for other applications. Maybe hook up a small compressor or some break away couplings to run a jack.

[Rossco]

Try driving a ford ranger with the stupid electronic dial thingies. Had to drive for miles screaming in low range in those stupid things cos they won't disengage Arrgh ! ! Sorry not much help lol . . .

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[the godfather]

Yep, I have one of those for work. Funnily enough though, it doesn't happen when it is fully loaded. Work that one out.

[PeeBee]

Thanks guys, but what is ROOT cause? Is there anything i can do to reduce this? Is it caused by component wear - transfer case has only done a small number of klm in low range, plus has the Marks 4WD 85% gears for final drive. would say its pretty well new condition. I need to pay more attention to what i specifically do to unlock it also, but 100m total back and forth is about real i think, and that lever is locked solid, then 'something happens', and it just slides out into neutral like silk - unbelievable. I had to move back and forth at least a dozen times when caught on the hill to get it to release, and certainly didn't travel 100m on that occasion - maybe 20m all up, then again, simply released without any real effort, luckily!

[the godfather]

AS rule the only thing you can do (that I am aware of) is try and keep all your tyres the same, and with even wear. I also avoid being in 4WD unless you need to be. The wheels need slippage to not allow wind up. Hence we never drive on tarmac in 4WD. Other than that, I am interested if there is another fix.

[the evil twin]

The ROOT cause is the laws of physics in that the front wheels and the back wheels travel different distances.

There is no fix which is why every 4WD does it even straight off the showroom floor with now component wear, identical tyres etc etc etc

[MB]

I could imagine Phil mate that blowing a tyre on say Axle Hill if it were wouldn’t be too fun :-( No doubt this 4th blown tyre would have greatly assisted wind up whilst scrabbling to your halt before needing PTO winching. Being that your winch requires neutral to work would undoing your front hubs help take some pressure off the driveline before selecting N and hauling up? Front tailshaft could be removed too I guess in an emergency but would hate to be under there on that hill especially!
EDIT: Freespool the winch first and connect up ready and also rock chock rear wheels to secure the truck before hubs undone of course.

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[BillsGU]

If you are really stuck the easiest way to release wind up is to jack up a wheel. I have had to do this on various vehicles during 4WD trips in the High Country.

[MB]

I think in Phil’s specific situation Bill mate of say steep rocky Axle Hill on Burgoyne Track the need appears to be getting the vehicle to higher/safer/flatter ground before jacking any part of the truck off the track. I guess my theory is to disconnect front from rear via the hubs should quickly work?


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[PeeBee]

I think in Phil’s specific situation Bill mate of say steep rocky Axle Hill on Burgoyne Track the need appears to be getting the vehicle to higher/safer/flatter ground before jacking any part of the truck off the track. I guess my theory is to disconnect front from rear via the hubs should quickly work?


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Didn't think of that, but by then the difflock compressor shit itself and was probably thinking of a number of things at the time. The 'incident' happened past axle hill, maybe a kilometer or so, one of the longer chewed out gnarly bits - track is a bit of a mess in places. I suspect the rear track would be worse. I think its time to replace these tyres and get back to a common diameter, even though they are all 32" but worn very differently.

[PeeBee]

If you are really stuck the easiest way to release wind up is to jack up a wheel. I have had to do this on various vehicles during 4WD trips in the High Country.

Bill, was not able to do this without risking the vehicle toppling off the hill - happened in one of those 'perfect storm' locations. If I could have lifted the vehicle safely I would have changed the tyre7441174412

[Rossco]

I guess driving in steep rough terrain but generally high traction rocky surface as typical in the high country with numerous switch backs and bends is perfect conditions for wind up as opposed to slippery stuff such as mud, snow sand. Not having too much of a dig (wink) but having more weight wouldn't help too with wind up. Sometimes massive switch backs switch to 2WD but not ideal if its a crazy steep track - definatly not recommended in this situation . . .

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[PeeBee]

Thanks Rossco, I will be the first to admit the barge is heavy, but I am now down to my last 500 coffee pods, so perhaps this situation will ease in the future, if weight is to be considered a factor (winky winky wink wink wink winky wink winky winky back at ya!)

[BillsGU]

Yep - It never happens on a flat, easily accessible surface! Mine are auto hubs so I can't disconnect them and have never tried on other vehicles - but wind up puts strain/force on the entire drive train and it would be interesting to find out if free wheeling hubs can easily be released?

[MB]

Very good point Bill mate, they may become jammed too! No real way to test it I guess unless on the unfortunate day up there.


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