5th gear went Pop

[sooty_10]

So my 5th gear went pop this morning. Going around a bend and suddenly lost all drive with a grinding/crunching noise. Shifted straight down to 4th and away I went. Bugger #*#!

Anyway mine is a '01 TD42t with about 220k km on the clock.

Rang a few places and waiting on some quotes for a repair.

Fluidrive (transmission shop) here quoted about $2k for rebuild with new bearings seals and shaft/gear.

Or

$2700 drive in/out with brand new genuine upgraded gearbox.

I have found a 2nd hand gearbox for $550 ('03 GU 130k km) no warranty on ebay.

Most others I've seen at wreckers are around $800-$1300 and unknown history's but 3 months warranty.

The second hand ones I need to add labour costs or my own time and patience, sweat and blood.

I'm starting to think the brand new one might not be too bad value.

Anyone else had theirs repaired or replaced recently?
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[mudnut]

I bought a secondhand box through a local business. After towing a van to the wreckers, it developed a whine in a cluster bearing,(1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th). 4th is perfect. The box was only in my Patrol for 25000 before the noise started. I believe I should have at least bought a reco box.

The one on Ebay, may not have the upgraded 5th gear, so you might end up in the exact same situation in no time.

[the evil twin]

snip... So my 5th gear went pop this morning. Going around a bend and suddenly lost all drive with a grinding/crunching noise. Shifted straight down to 4th and away I went. Bugger #*#!

Anyway mine is a '01 TD42t with about 220k km on the clock.


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Known problem with that era Gearbox... the spline on 5th was shorter than the later jobbies.

For $2700 drive in/drive out I'd go the new box for sure

[dom14]

I bought a secondhand box through a local business. After towing a van to the wreckers, it developed a whine in a cluster bearing,(1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th). 4th is perfect. The box was only in my Patrol for 25000 before the noise started. I believe I should have at least bought a reco box.

The one on Ebay, may not have the upgraded 5th gear, so you might end up in the exact same situation in no time.

What is the mileage on your troll? What is the mileage the gearbox said no more?

Mine's still turning at around 350k. Not much van pulling, but have done enough heavy trailer pulling though.

[the evil twin]

What is the mileage on your troll? What is the mileage the gearbox said no more?

Mine's still turning at around 350k. Not much van pulling, but have done enough heavy trailer pulling though.

Different boxes, Cobber

[mudnut]

I was making the point that buying secondhand gearboxes can be a waste of money, but buying reco or new is the way to go. The original gear box in mine (FS5R30A) only did 270,000km and died while towing my light camper trailer up and over Mt Cole. The vehicle has only done 310,000 km and I am up for another gearbox when I can get the money.

The FS5R50A (GQ) FS5R50B (GU) are definitely tougher, heavier gearboxes. As ET posted, a new one with the upgraded splines would be bullet proof. If funds were limited a reco unit with the upgrade would be the second best option.

[dom14]

Different boxes, Cobber

Yep, I was wondering about the reason why some RB30 boxes crap themselves around 250-300k mark or even fair bit earlier, while the others go on to hit 400k+. I'm not particularly gentle with mine, but can't say I've been thrashing it a fair bit on off-road tracks.
Then again, mudnut isn't thrashing his one either. I think it has lot to do with previous lives our trolls lived before we get them secondhand.

[MB]

$2700 drive in/out with brand new genuine upgraded gearbox.

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......Bump.......Dom above mate !


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[dom14]

I was making the point that buying secondhand gearboxes can be a waste of money, but buying reco or new is the way to go. The original gear box in mine (FS5R30A) only did 270,000km and died while towing my light camper trailer up and over Mt Cole. The vehicle has only done 310,000 km and I am up for another gearbox when I can get the money.

The FS5R50A (GQ) FS5R50B (GU) are definitely tougher, heavier gearboxes. As ET posted, a new one with the upgraded splines would bullet proof. If funds were limited a reco unit with the upgrade would be the second best option.


No argument about the above comment on buying second hand RB30 gearboxes.
You never know how good or bad a gearbox that is put on bench for sale.
You take the seller's word and 90% of the time end up getting screwed.

Tell me bit more about the RB30 Patrol gearbox upgrade options. I didn't know that I can have choices there.

I know it won't be long before mine fails. I've been thinking about storing a used gearbox, and they are fairly cheap.
I could've picked up a 'good' one from a bloke I know who said it was removed as a good running one.
I didn't go for it 'cos of reluctance to store heavy stuff in the limited garage space at that time.

I've heard it is the synchros of the RB30 box that fails, rather than actual gear spline wear, but of course that all depends on the driving style and terrain of the owner.

[dom14]

$2700 drive in/out with brand new genuine upgraded gearbox.

I have found a 2nd hand gearbox for $550 ('03 GU 130k km) no warranty on ebay.

Most others I've seen at wreckers are around $800-$1300 and unknown history's but 3 months warranty.

The second hand ones I need to add labour costs or my own time and patience, sweat and blood.

I'm starting to think the brand new one might not be too bad value.

Anyone else had theirs repaired or replaced recently?
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Comparing to the rebuild price above, the brand new price is not bad at all.
If you are going for the $550 one, make sure it's your elbow grease, 'cos labour cost would be too much of a risk
for a used one without any warranties.
If the wreckers want 1k for a one with only three month warranty, then for the peace of mind, you might as well spend the extra grand or more and get a rebuilt or a new one.

[mudnut]

Try talking to this mob http://360gearboxesdiffs.com.au/mods-2/ about the mods they can do.

[mudski]

Wonder if Marks Adaptors do a c/o box with their extra ratio overdrive gear they sell. That would be handy. My ZD box is nees new synchros and was kinda thinking to get a TD box with this new gear in it and maybe reduction gears. When I get my money tree growing of course. Haha!

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[dom14]

The original gear box in mine (FS5R30A) only did 270,000km and died while towing my light camper trailer up and over Mt Cole. The vehicle has only done 310,000 km and I am up for another gearbox when I can get the money.


They can't be that bad, do they?
I like to believe the reason gearbox failed on that mileage might be 'cos the previous owner has been bashing and thrashing it around.
For example, mine doesn't look that good in terms of other parts of the vehicle, like the engine, suspension, diffs, etc 'cos all of them gave me lot of crap trouble, but not the transmission. I doubt the tranny has already been through any work on it.

You can source RB30 boxes cheaply, but might be necessary to take a chance with them, which is something you probably don't wanna do now 'cos you've already got burnt by a used one.

[dom14]

Wonder if Marks Adaptors do a c/o box with their extra ratio overdrive gear they sell. That would be handy. My ZD box is nees new synchros and was kinda thinking to get a TD box with this new gear in it and maybe reduction gears. When I get my money tree growing of course. Haha!

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I found out the bad & sad way those money trees need lot of synthetic fertilizer and a bit of gambling to get them to grow quickly or die quickly.
Try the nearest casino. Since you're a businessman, you already know these stuff. ;) :D

[mudnut]

They can't be that bad, do they?
I like to believe the reason gearbox failed on that mileage might be 'cos the previous owner has been bashing and thrashing it around.
For example, mine doesn't look that good in terms of other parts of the vehicle, like the engine, suspension, diffs, etc 'cos all of them gave me lot of crap trouble, but not the transmission. I doubt the tranny has already been through any work on it.

You can source RB30 boxes cheaply, but might be necessary to take a chance with them, which is something you probably don't wanna do now 'cos you've already got burnt by a used one.

Some have posted that they absolutely thrash their RB30s and they're getting high mileage out of the gear train. The problem is that the gearbox internals are basically designed for road vehicles.

There was one wrecker ( can't remember their name) in the Eastern burbs that was splitting a number of boxes and making one good unit out of them. He was giving a 3 month warranty, but was asking top dollar.

[dom14]

Some have posted that they absolutely thrash their RB30s and they're getting high mileage out of the gear train. The problem is that the gearbox internals are basically designed for road vehicles.

There was one wrecker ( can't remember their name) in the Eastern burbs that was splitting a number of boxes and making one good unit out of them. He was giving a 3 month warranty, but was asking top dollar.

I wouldn't waste money on that. It's better to spend that money on those professional tranny builders.
They put new synchros, bearings and gears(if necessary) and fix them properly for long term. Besides you get
a decent warranty as well. I guess putting new gears can jack up the rebuilding price tag a bit 'cos replacement gears are not cheap.
But, synchros, bearings aren't that expensive. The rebuild kit(retail) is around $400-500 mark(I don't think the kit comes with any gears by default on that price).
I bet the professional rebuilders source the parts lot cheaper than that.

[dom14]

Some have posted that they absolutely thrash their RB30s and they're getting high mileage out of the gear train. The problem is that the gearbox internals are basically designed for road vehicles.


My rear diff developed pinion bearing wear issue out of blue, back in 2014. I was told I was just unlucky, but I reckon there are
better explanations out there. Perhaps the suspension lift job that was done by the previous owner might have caused it.

Yours might have been a factory fault, but not likely.

I've seen turbo and NA RB30 Patrols getting thrashed off road, but I think they do fail eventually.

What we need is an 'adaptor' to fit TB42 box to an RB30 engine. :)

[mudnut]

My rear diff developed pinion bearing wear issue out of blue, back in 2014. I was told I was just unlucky, but I reckon there are
better explanations out there. Perhaps the suspension lift job that was done by the previous owner might have caused it.

Yours might have been a factory fault, but not likely.

I've seen turbo and NA RB30 Patrols getting thrashed off road, but I think they do fail eventually.

What we need is an 'adaptor' to fit TB42 box to an RB30 engine. :)

I did ask about that quite a while ago, and was told that Marks do a bell housing adaptor for the TB42 auto transmission. I was also advised (by Nissannewbie) the FS5R50A would sap too much energy from the RB30 to be viable. Although a turboed 30 would handle it.

[dom14]

I did ask about that quite a while ago, and was told that Marks do a bell housing adaptor for the TB42 auto transmission. I was also advised (by Nissannewbie) the FS5R50A would sap too much energy from the RB30 to be viable. Although a turboed 30 would handle it.

Ideally, any energy loss that is caused by a mismatch of torque conversion should able to be corrected by employing the correct diff ratio. And hopefully that should fix any energy loss. I like to think the slightly bigger box ideally shouldn't cause any significant loss of energy, 'cos after all the interior components are near identical, but just slightly bigger. A heavy duty clutch may be necessary to match a high revving RB30 with the TB42 gearbox.

There is a thread somewhere on how to fit an auto tranny onto a GQ RB30.

[themage21]

In 2016, I blew mine driving along the freeway home, 110kph, no towing and minimal on-board load. Zero warning, just went bang.

Trying to source a repairer, there only appear to be 2-3 places in Sydney that will touch these boxes (I suspect due to weight and pain in the a*** value in getting them out) and that get recommendations for the repair from other people.

$600 in labour to remove/install.
$2300 approx for bearings/seals/new shaft & gear (and labour to do the work). Uprated gear (so better than the proper replacement, probably from Marks) was going to cost another $1200 on top of that. I got two of my synchros done, should've done the lot, my first now pops out occasionally when crawling down hills, but for now I've just taken to being a bit kinder to it.
$100 to get it towed half way across Sydney.

I thought about dropping in a wrecker box, but the question would always be over my head as to when that one was going to blow as well. The zero warning and then possibility of having to drive 100's of k's with 4 gears and the sound of metal trashing everything inside the box that was still ok dissuaded me from the idea.

Also came with I think a 20k/1 year warranty. Either way, better than if I'd stuffed around with it.

[billyj]

Ideally, any energy loss that is caused by a mismatch of torque conversion should able to be corrected by employing the correct diff ratio. And hopefully that should fix any energy loss. I like to think the slightly bigger box ideally shouldn't cause any significant loss of energy, 'cos after all the interior components are near identical, but just slightly bigger. A heavy duty clutch may be necessary to match a high revving RB30 with the TB42 gearbox.

There is a thread somewhere on how to fit an auto tranny onto a GQ RB30.

the point would be that the bigger heavier gears of a tb/td box would take more energy to get spinning, a similar effect to if you were to double the weight of the flywheel

[dom14]

the point would be that the bigger heavier gears of a tb/td box would take more energy to get spinning, a similar effect to if you were to double the weight of the flywheel

I was hoping the extra angular momentum of those heavier items like flywheel, gear etc would eventually compensate for the initial energy loss by the gathered extra inertia. Sure,... the take off can be bit more expensive than the lighter gearbox, but may be the extra energy spent can be recovered while cruising, the same idea as it would happen from a slightly heavier flywheel, in theory of course. I'm sure there are other factors that goes into it that might make my argument valid or invalid.

My point being, it might be the mismatch of torque ratio conversions that cause the extra fuel consumption, rather than slightly heavier gears. RB30 gearbox is purposely designed to efficiently convert the torque of the RB30 engine to the desired ratio on each gear and TB42/TD42 boxes doing the same thing for those engines. That's why I was hoping that some fiddling with the diff ration might(or might not) be able to correct the torque conversion ratio(s) and fuel consumption to an acceptable level.

[dom14]

In 2016, I blew mine driving along the freeway home, 110kph, no towing and minimal on-board load. Zero warning, just went bang.
.

Yep, and that concerns me a fair bit, 'cos if it happens in the middle of an off road track when going on solo, it can end up bad.
Of course, going solo off road too far is a no no, but there are nuts who does that occasionally, like myself. ;)

There are some synthetic additives out there to add to gear oil to make things run smoother and get more k's out of a box.
Dunno how good they are though.

[Avo]

Yep, and that concerns me a fair bit, 'cos if it happens in the middle of an off road track when going on solo, it can end up bad.
Of course, going solo off road too far is a no no, but there are nuts who does that occasionally, like myself. ;)

There are some synthetic additives out there to add to gear oil to make things run smoother and get more k's out of a box.
Dunno how good they are though.

going solo off road by oneself is not a no no...you just have to be prepared,,,enough food n water,stay by your car if something goes pair shaped,,they always find the vehicle first...

[dom14]

I bought a secondhand box through a local business. After towing a van to the wreckers, it developed a whine in a cluster bearing,(1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th). 4th is perfect. The box was only in my Patrol for 25000 before the noise started. I believe I should have at least bought a reco box.

The one on Ebay, may not have the upgraded 5th gear, so you might end up in the exact same situation in no time.

BTW, assuming you still have the old bad gearbox in the garage, it may worth getting the rebuild kit from Bearings Wholesalers and have a crack at it yourself. I don't think the kit comes with gears, but comes with all the bearings and synchros. A dial indicator may be necessary for the job, but you can buy an adequate one from ebay. You probably wanna open up the old one first and see if there are any broken gear splines, 'cos buying those gears new can be pretty pricey.

I have sworn few times in the past not to touch transmissions at all(manual or auto), but the temptation is still here. What I don't have is the time and space. :)

[dom14]

going solo off road by oneself is not a no no...you just have to be prepared,,,enough food n water,stay by your car if something goes pair shaped,,they always find the vehicle first...

Yeah, I've done with a sat phone in the past. I meant the recovery of the vehicle can end up as dangerously expensive unless there are mates not too far who can help with dragging the vehicle to a main road.

My anxiety actually isn't about dying(I hope) 'cos I do carry lot of dry food & water. It is about having to let go the vehicle. :)
You get attached to the troll after few years, or at least I do. ;)

[Avo]

Yeah, I've done with a sat phone in the past. I meant the recovery of the vehicle can end up as dangerously expensive unless there are mates not too far who can help with dragging the vehicle to a main road.

My anxiety actually isn't about dying(I hope) 'cos I do carry lot of dry food & water. It is about having to let go the vehicle. :)
You get attached to the troll after few years, or at least I do. ;)

meh i bought it for the wife..easy come easy go......

[themage21]

Yep, and that concerns me a fair bit, 'cos if it happens in the middle of an off road track when going on solo, it can end up bad.
Of course, going solo off road too far is a no no, but there are nuts who does that occasionally, like myself. ;)

There are some synthetic additives out there to add to gear oil to make things run smoother and get more k's out of a box.
Dunno how good they are though.

Mine is a '00 GU - part of the bunch that had the crappy 5th gear from factory. It had towed camper trailers in the previous owners usage, not sure what it did in owners before then. It lasted 260k - not bad for a second rate part. But if you have to take out the gbox one way or another, I'd always vote reco, unless you know that the replacement box is from outside of the affected year range.

Additives aren't going to help, because it's not a heat/wear thing, the splines actually tear and round over from mechanical overload/fatigue. I've got my old layshaft and gear and you can see where the shoddy gear never engaged with the end of the spline. Outside of that, the shaft and gears all look like they're brand new, because of regular oil changes.

[Cuppa]

What year was the gearbox issue fixed by Nissan - & what was the fix? A beefed up 5th gear pinion?

[sooty_10]

What year was the gearbox issue fixed by Nissan - & what was the fix? A beefed up 5th gear pinion?I believe it was a problem up till some stage on '02. From all my reading you are safe of the box is from an '03 or up. Mine was an '01.

Yep the solution is longer splines of the main shaft for 5th gear to engage on, and I believe a slightly wider 5th gear.

Further more my research has shown that the CRD has lower gear ratios for the first 3 and a taller 5th. I'm going brand new box so should all be sweet and I am getting the CRD box for a lower first gear.

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[dom14]

Mine is a '00 GU - part of the bunch that had the crappy 5th gear from factory. It had towed camper trailers in the previous owners usage, not sure what it did in owners before then. It lasted 260k - not bad for a second rate part. But if you have to take out the gbox one way or another, I'd always vote reco, unless you know that the replacement box is from outside of the affected year range.

Additives aren't going to help, because it's not a heat/wear thing, the splines actually tear and round over from mechanical overload/fatigue. I've got my old layshaft and gear and you can see where the shoddy gear never engaged with the end of the spline. Outside of that, the shaft and gears all look like they're brand new, because of regular oil changes.


It would be great if you can post a picture of that here.

What is time period the bad 5th gear was installed into the GU gearbox?

[dom14]

I believe it was a problem up till some stage on '02. From all my reading you are safe of the box is from an '03 or up. Mine was an '01.


Does that include the GQs RB30 & TB42 boxes as well?!!

[the evil twin]

Does that include the GQs RB30 & TB42 boxes as well?!!

No... as prev posted... TD42 only from 99 to 02

Pic of the old v new 5th gear with the extended spline

http://grantm.customer.netspace.net.au/5th4.jpg

[sooty_10]

It would be great if you can post a picture of that here.

What is time period the bad 5th gear was installed into the GU gearbox?There is good pics floating around showing the changes. Potentially on the other patrol site. I will endeavour to get some pics if I get my old gearbox back from the mechanic.

The problem boxes I believe were early TD42t/ZD30 GU's up till some stage in '02.

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[sooty_10]

No... as prev posted... TD42 only from 99 to 02

Pic of the old v new 5th gear with the extended spline

http://grantm.customer.netspace.net.au/5th4.jpgDidnt see this before my previous response.
Yep thats one of the good pics I mentioned. They have also increased the length of the spline on the main shaft. Massive overall increase in contact surface area between the shaft and gear.

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[sooty_10]

So i ended up getting a 2nd hand 3L crd gearbox from patrol-a-part. Only had 77k kms I believe. All in and installed and I am back on the road.

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[Plasnart]

So i ended up getting a 2nd hand 3L crd gearbox from patrol-a-part. Only had 77k kms I believe. All in and installed and I am back on the road.

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Thats good mate. Ive got an 01 GU TD42 and waiting for this to happen. Every time uphill in 5th it crosses my mind.

Actually a mate of mine not on this forum did his 5th years ago and fought Nissan about it. Got labour free I think but not parts.

[sooty_10]

Thats good mate. Ive got an 01 GU TD42 and waiting for this to happen. Every time uphill in 5th it crosses my mind.

Actually a mate of mine not on this forum did his 5th years ago and fought Nissan about it. Got labour free I think but not parts.The good news is if 5th does go, you can always use 4th to get home.

All up cost me $880 + freight for the box, and $650 in labour. No way was I going to do it at home when thats all the labour costs, gearbox out is a prick.

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[Plasnart]

The good news is if 5th does go, you can always use 4th to get home.

All up cost me $880 + freight for the box, and $650 in labour. No way was I going to do it at home when thats all the labour costs, gearbox out is a prick.

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Dont blame ya. $650 is easily worth the labour. Have you checked your fire wall? Has it been panel beated like I've heard happens to make the job easier? Hopefully they tilted the engine and did it nicely.

[sooty_10]

I'll check mate. Good advise. I had to remove the engine mounts and drop the engine onto the chassis mounts to do it myself last time I had it out.

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[Plasnart]

I'll check mate. Good advise. I had to remove the engine mounts and drop the engine onto the chassis mounts to do it myself last time I had it out.

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If you're happy with workmanship post up who did it for my memory bank. Used to live in Bendigo and still get up there from time to time ;)

[mudski]

The good news is if 5th does go, you can always use 4th to get home.

All up cost me $880 + freight for the box, and $650 in labour. No way was I going to do it at home when thats all the labour costs, gearbox out is a prick.

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You got out of it pretty cheap I reckon. The ratios are different from a ZD to TD box, but I dont know how noticeable it will be. I run a ZD box with the upgraded 5th gear, but the rest of the box has seen better days so I'm just trying to find a good enough excuse to get a rebuilt TD box.

[sooty_10]

If you're happy with workmanship post up who did it for my memory bank. Used to live in Bendigo and still get up there from time to time ;)So far so good. Took it for a 150km round trip today feels better than the old box through all the gears. There is less movement in the shifter and just feels tighter.

So far looked at firewall and no evidence of firewall bashing. And everything seems to work well. Havent tried 4wd yet, monday I'll take it for a spin.

Fluid drive in Kangaroo Flat did the work. Easy to deal with and just around the corner to me.

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