Dyno Tuning???

[10G]

Thinking of getting my Trol duno tuned.

I have a question.

Can they do anything if I don't fit a chip? Isn't the whole thing run by a computer, isn't that computer a closed box that no one can fiddle with?

If they can do something without me fitting a chip, is it worth the 6 hour round trip or will the changes be unnoticeable?

The truck is running pretty well ATM, maybe just using a bit too much fuel.

[mudski]

If the motor is all stock there's not a lot they can do. Maybe adjust the actuator arm on the turbo. The rest is ECU controlled so if you had a chip they would simply dyno on each setting to find the best one. You can get ECU remaps too as an alternative a chip, but is non removable and irreversible. But does give you more options for performance.
If it were me in your shoes I wouldn't waste my time on a dyno. Your time and effort into doing so would not pay off with the result in my opinion. Fuel consumption I wouldn't worry about, unless its using a real lot, it is a 3T vehicle with a small under powered motor at the end of the day.

[Hodge]

No ECU is not a closed box. Well to a regular user it is. But remap is available.
Without a chip, the only other thing is a ECU remap which not all dyno places do anyway.

Other than that, you can throw it on the dyno and tune Needle/Dawes valves on the fly....

[10G]

Thanks guys, you said just what I thought.

I really wasn't sure what a dyno tune involved to be honest, but I did think that there must be something that is adjusted as the car runs, but if the stock ECU can't be adjusted, I guess you only dyno tune when you have something to adjust.

Being an electronics tech in my earlier life reflashing the ECU is something I think I'll stay well away from, way too dangerous IMO, but thanks for the info.

[Hodge]

Thanks guys, you said just what I thought.

I really wasn't sure what a dyno tune involved to be honest, but I did think that there must be something that is adjusted as the car runs, but if the stock ECU can't be adjusted, I guess you only dyno tune when you have something to adjust.

Being an electronics tech in my earlier life reflashing the ECU is something I think I'll stay well away from, way too dangerous IMO, but thanks for the info.

Some people out there get great results with a Re-map .I mean, its more or less just like a chip. Except, Chip tricks the ECU midway..... But a remap brainwashes the ECU entirely.
How trusty is a remap? Nobody knows.
I'm not a tech expert but, how vulnerable is a remapped ECU compared to a ECU that hasn't been touched. I mean its not like its been physically bent into submission is it? It's just a software re-flash / update. But if things do go wrong. Unless you have a spare ECU, well you could be stranded.
Personally id go with a chip. With a chip, it's a simple unplug it, by pass it and you're off.
I wouldn't trust a re flash. But then again I'm yet to hear/read any remaps out there failing...

[BigRAWesty]

Thinking of getting my Trol duno tuned.

I have a question.

Can they do anything if I don't fit a chip? Isn't the whole thing run by a computer, isn't that computer a closed box that no one can fiddle with?

If they can do something without me fitting a chip, is it worth the 6 hour round trip or will the changes be unnoticeable?

The truck is running pretty well ATM, maybe just using a bit too much fuel.

Hey bloke.
So there are many more remapping the crd than the Di as the program is the obd2 setup.
Ok so remap.top spec best option.
This is done as a live tune on dyno or driving and parameters are changed in the ecu to what you want them to be, to suit your car.
Completely stock engines can be changed quite a bit but..
The boost control is still shoit so best with mechanical boost control.
Of course an exhaust and that will all help with power output but not critical.

Beware.
Some simply do a flash tune.
This is like a chip. A simple set of parameters set by some 16 year old kid in China and shipped out on a usb to the dealer..
Risky. Yea a bit.
This is the down fall of a chip aswell.
As every engine is different they all react differently so what might be bang on for one engine may be rich for the next.

However..
There are a side not to flash tunes.
Harley at East Coast performance
Tuning.
They have put in some serious hours in r and d for flash tunes on a whole range of cars with all the different mods.
So they get a list of what you have, and adjust your mail order tune to suit..
So imo this is your second best option.
Not quite a on the fly tune but far better than a run of the mill flash tune or chip..

ECPT also do Di tuning who as far as I'm awear are the only in Australia.. that's how invested he is in this stuff..

[10G]

Thanks for the info Kallen, much appreciated.

I remember from my electronics tech days, if we reflashed a ROM or wrote a new one , things could go wrong. The info you flash with may be incorrect, you could lose power while flashing, I just remember, we never did it unless we had a fall back, EG more ROMs.

I looked at the Steibauer ECU, it seems to be pretty good. It alters the induction length so more fuel can be squirted in, doesn't increase rail pressure like other devices do, which I'm not keen on.

If I could have exactly what I wanted it would be a way in which I could choose to run economically when I use the vehicle as daily driver and then increase it's power when it's loaded up, an economy & a power setting I guess.

[Bidja]

Being an electronics tech in my earlier life reflashing the ECU is something I think I'll stay well away from, way too dangerous IMO, but thanks for the info.

FYI. 4 months ago my 08 GU CRD was stock except for snorkel.
Now run ECU Remap (postal) by ECPT, Full NADS, 3' pipe, manual boost control and very happy.

If your engine as it is provides you with what you require then leave it.

IMO if you are concerned about ecu remap or even chip and you would like a bit more performance then look at fitting 3” highflow exhaust, NADS (manual boost control) and have ability to observe boost / egt levels. (try only exhaust and manual boost control). Is your choice.

At each mod stage, thru to remap (in my case), you do see improvements at each mod stage. Currently getting 13.5 l/100km (veh 3.1T) doing mixed driving ie: 80% rural dirt/sealed, 10% town, 10% offroad (this is not just poking around).

To be honest, with stock eng with snorkel, I fitted a throttle control unit and that alone did wonders for getting rid of a lot of the throttle lag and perked up my CRD performance (the change suprised me).

[10G]

FYI. 4 months ago my 08 GU CRD was stock except for snorkel.
Now run ECU Remap (postal) by ECPT, Full NADS, 3' pipe, manual boost control and very happy.

If your engine as it is provides you with what you require then leave it.

IMO if you are concerned about ecu remap or even chip and you would like a bit more performance then look at fitting 3” highflow exhaust, NADS (manual boost control) and have ability to observe boost / egt levels. (try only exhaust and manual boost control). Is your choice.

At each mod stage, thru to remap (in my case), you do see improvements at each mod stage. Currently getting 13.5 l/100km (veh 3.1T) doing mixed driving ie: 80% rural dirt/sealed, 10% town, 10% offroad (this is not just poking around).

To be honest, with stock eng with snorkel, I fitted a throttle control unit and that alone did wonders for getting rid of a lot of the throttle lag and perked up my CRD performance (the change suprised me).

That's all interesting stuff.

What's the throttle control unit, I've not read up on them, what do they actually do?

[Bidja]

That's all interesting stuff.

What's the throttle control unit, I've not read up on them, what do they actually do?

It doesn’t interfere with a car’s ECU, power, torque or fuel delivery; rather it simply alters the throttle curve depending on driving style by providing new points of reference for the throttle mapping.

Many different manufactures do a goggle. Mine is one from 4wd supa centre. They are cheap give it a go.

Has a few function settings (and a range of increment settings per function setting). Function settings: stock and economy, half and full increase above stock set point. Plug and Play, place in series at the accelerator pedal electric function plug connector.

[BigRAWesty]

Thanks for the info Kallen, much appreciated.

I remember from my electronics tech days, if we reflashed a ROM or wrote a new one , things could go wrong. The info you flash with may be incorrect, you could lose power while flashing, I just remember, we never did it unless we had a fall back, EG more ROMs.

I looked at the Steibauer ECU, it seems to be pretty good. It alters the induction length so more fuel can be squirted in, doesn't increase rail pressure like other devices do, which I'm not keen on.

If I could have exactly what I wanted it would be a way in which I could choose to run economically when I use the vehicle as daily driver and then increase it's power when it's loaded up, an economy & a power setting I guess.That is the chip of choice for exactly the reason you mentioned.
It adjusts injector pulse as it's main event for extra fuel.

Your quality tuners like East Coast will have a stock map on hand if shoit goes bad, and it can. I personally know the local Toyota dealer accidently wipped the father in-laws prado clean when recoding the injectors. They had to ring other customers to get someone to bring their prado in to copy it across lol..

Anyway. Lots of people who have mapped the ecu and lots of positive responses if you get it done right.

On the subject of throttle controllers.
Being electronic throttle those modules simply trick the ecu to thinking you have more, or less depending on your setting, pedal than you actually do..
So they don't adjust anything, but simply adjust the throttle voltage.
Similar to a maf voltage modifier.

Imo, jump online or call Harley from East coast performance tuning and have a chat. He'll run threw what happens and how. He's in Melbourne I'm pretty sure so not much further for you..

[Bidja]

Imo, jump online or call Harley from East coast performance tuning and have a chat. He'll run threw what happens and how. He's in Melbourne I'm pretty sure so not much further for you..

Do highly recommend to have a chat with Harley @ ECPT. (ECU postal remap Max Boost 20-22 psi / AFR 22:1) Am a happy customer. Harley is in Tuggerah NSW (Nth of Sydney) 0497 444 451 for tech info. Have a look at their web page.

[BigRAWesty]

Do highly recommend to have a chat with Harley @ ECPT. (ECU postal remap Max Boost 20-22 psi / AFR 22:1) Am a happy customer. Harley is in Tuggerah NSW (Nth of Sydney) 0497 444 451 for tech info. Have a look at their web page.Augh ok. Some reason I though melb but still.
Worth the trip or week carless..

[Bidja]

Augh ok. Some reason I though melb but still.
Worth the trip or week carless..

was not intended for you to look at his web page ,sorry. But still a good read.

Will do run to ecpt for dyno check of tune in early new year. By the way thanks for your help along the way especially manual boost adjust.

[BigRAWesty]

was not intended for you to look at his web page ,sorry. But still a good read.

Will do run to ecpt for dyno check of tune in early new year. By the way thanks for your help along the way especially manual boost adjust.No worries mate

[Chimo]

Slightly broadening the question but would a GQ 4.2 diesel with a denco turbo kit ie schwitzer turbo pipe work from turbo to the back end benefit in any way from a dyno tune? 200,000 kms 10 / 110 lt per 100km highway and 15 to 18 around town with too many traffic lights and cars in the way in general.

Merry Xmas you lot too

Cheers
Chimo
PS Nothing has been touched since the turbo went on in the 90's .,
PPS Just tell me if you want this as a separate thread!!

[BillsGU]

Don't know if I would bother with a throttle controller. All they are is a voltage amplifier that takes the voltage from the throttle sensor - amplifies it - and sends it to the ecu. You would get exactly the same effect by pushing the pedal down more quickly. Also, when you are off road going slowly on harsh terrain, you need all the throttle "feel" and resolution you can get. The last thing you want is to put your foot down a little bit and take off a lot.

They can't possibly give you more speed because 100% throttle is 100% throttle! An aftermarket controller may get you to 100% a poofteenth of a second quicker.

As for stories about throttle controllers improving enconmy - they are just that - stories - IMHO.

[10G]

I wonder if those throttle controllers can help minimise turbo lag?

[BillsGU]

I wonder if those throttle controllers can help minimise turbo lag?

No. This message was too short so I had to add more for it to be accepted.

[Bidja]

I wonder if those throttle controllers can help minimise turbo lag?

Agree, a throttle control unit (TCU) does not influence turbo lag.

Engine build alone dictates the max torque/pwr output and is not influenced at all by a TCU.

IMO, a TCU can assist in reducing the throttle lag that electronic controlled throttles do experience, as compared to cable controlled/actuated throttles. Reducing initial throttle lag can provide benefit for both on and off road performance.

My experience for CRD stock engine was that the TCU provided a quicker initial response time to accelerate at short notice primarily for hwy overtaking.
Or in a off road low range situation, where I was slowly pocking along and I encountered a washed out rut and wanted to lift out of it, I found that the throttle lag time was too great for the momentum and the engine would loose it. The stock eng low down torque was what it was.

Amd't - From observation, even though I experienced a favourable result from using a throttle control unit(TCU) on my CRD with stock ECU/ECM, the reverse occurred with using it with a remapped ECU (max Boost 21.5 PSI / AFR 22:1). The TCU appeared to adversely mess with the ECU causing greater fuel consumption, non linear power increase thru rev range, lack of low down torque. Removed TCU, the result is good, better needle control for cruise boost, linear power increase thru rev range; max boost @ 1800 RPM, Max torque at 2200 RPM and 12.7 l/100-km compare to 13.5 l/100km (mixed driving sealed/dirt/off road_low range - 400km run (up into snowies and around Kiandra)