MIG with argon

[dom14]

Hey guys,

I've been trying to use pure argon with my MIG welder today, but without much success.
This is the first time I'm trying this and not sure whether I'm doing something wrong, something not right with gas flow or the MIG welder.
All I hear is a lot of popping sound and 'charcoal burning' looking welds with chunks of metal not sticking to the base metal(Pictures attached).
I tried with all the different settings from the MIG welder fast/slow/medium speed and all four amp settings as well as keeping the MIG tip closer to the base, medium distance and further bit away as well, but to no good. Gas comes out fine, except this setup doesn't allow to control the gas flow as the this cheap MIG welder has no such control.

There might be an issue with the regulator(or rather the flow meter) I'm using as in the pictures below.
It does the TIG without any dramas. I couldn't actually see the flow meter ball moving(not moving at all or just jumps a bit initially when I open the TIG torch gas control knob and then back to the bottom). So, I didn't actually get a reading of TIG flow from the flow meter per say. The regulator gauge goes all the way to the end (25Mpa?).
So, I'm not sure whether I have a crap regulator+flow meter, but it did ok with TIG steel).

The MIG welder is a cheap Mishto 130amp one, but should do the job that I need to do without much issues.

So, what am I not doing right to not get semi-decent welds with MIG+argon combination, 'cos I've been told it should be just ok when proper MIG shielding gas mix is not available.

Is there a trick to how to get it right?

Any help, suggestions, tips, advice etc etc would be great.


P.S. The regulator+flow meter is not an expensive one, but thought it should do the job of regulating the pressure, at least. It is an online purchase, from a local seller.

[GQtdauto]

You have no gas flowing through your mig Dom.

[GQtdauto]

Release the feed roller tension for the wire , turn the welder on and press the trigger on the handpiece of the Mig and watch the little ball , if your welding inside your shed try 8-9 litres per minute , outside if windy you need more but it can get too windy for a mig .

[GQtdauto]

Forgot to say you have to adjust the knob on the left side to get the flow rate while your activating the mig .
Unrelated but if your going to weld something that's heavily galvanised , grind the gal off the area to be welded and don't breath in the fumes it's nasty stuff .

[dom14]

You have no gas flowing through your mig Dom.

Gas was flowing and comes out of the tip(or rather the nozzle). I could clearly hear and feel it as well.



Release the feed roller tension for the wire , turn the welder on and press the trigger on the handpiece of the Mig and watch the little ball , if your welding inside your shed try 8-9 litres per minute , outside if windy you need more but it can get too windy for a mig .

It's been dead wind all day and evening today. No wind, but pretty warm. I think the flow meter is either faulty or I am not sure how to read it or get it going properly. It only has on/off. I actually controlled the flow from the knob on the TIG torch. No such control available for the MIG welder though.



Forgot to say you have to adjust the knob on the left side to get the flow rate while your activating the mig .
Unrelated but if your going to weld something that's heavily galvanised , grind the gal off the area to be welded and don't breath in the fumes it's nasty stuff .

If you meant the knob for the flow meter, yeah I opened it up. I think it's only an open or shut type of valve, not a flow control know(hope I'm wrong about that). And yeah, I ground the gal off where I was welding on it. The TIG handled it fine. But, no good outcome with the MIG though.

[dom14]

You have no gas flowing through your mig Dom.

May be the flow meter is stuffed and the valve ain't letting out enough flow to suit MIG(but ok enough for TIG)??!!

[GQtdauto]

It's possible to have too much gas coming out but I'm not sure that's your problem , can you take a photo of the handpiece with the nozzle or shroud in place and one of it removed .

[GQtdauto]

May be the flow meter is stuffed and the valve ain't letting out enough flow to suit MIG(but ok enough for TIG)??!!

I'm doubting it Dom.

[dom14]

It's possible to have too much gas coming out but I'm not sure that's your problem , can you take a photo of the handpiece with the nozzle or shroud in place and one of it removed .

Ok, cool. Gimme five minutes. I'll upload a couple of photos.

[dom14]

Just took these pictures of the nozzle and the tip.

[GQtdauto]

Nice and clean no spatter build up looks ok but those holes where the gas comes out appear to have something on the inside blocking them but if you can hear and feel gas coming out we might start with the flow rate .
Tig flowrate for what you're doing roughly 6-7 litres per minute (LPM) and mig try 7-8 LPM .
Bit late now but that knob that says on / off should be basically a tap so you should be able to adjust the gas flow ie the ball in the glass using that knob to 8 LPM , turn your gas bottle main valve on (slowly) half to three quarters of a turn is fine , take the tension off the wire feed Roller and turn the mig on , press the trigger on the hand piece then mig should run but wire shouldn't spool out .
While doing that look at the glass tube and where the ball is , try turning the flow rate knob that one on the left that says on - off and see if you can get it to move if it does move it to 8Lpm .
Gas flow rate can be a bit up or down from 8 but if you get little holes in the weld you need to increase it , just for chits and giggles check your hose connections to make sure you don't have any blockages kinked hoses or loose connections .
If your getting flow on Tig I'm betting it's something stupid like a blocked hose or connection , your problem is not the argon it's either not getting out the end of the gun or at the right rate .

[dom14]

Nice and clean no spatter build up looks ok but those holes where the gas comes out appear to have something on the inside blocking them but if you can hear and feel gas coming out we might start with the flow rate .

Definitely heard and felt the gas coming out of the holes on the side, and out of the nozzle when the nozzle is on.



Tig flowrate for what you're doing roughly 6-7 litres per minute (LPM) and mig try 7-8 LPM .
Bit late now but that knob that says on / off should be basically a tap so you should be able to adjust the gas flow ie the ball in the glass using that knob to 8 LPM , turn your gas bottle main valve on (slowly) half to three quarters of a turn is fine , take the tension off the wire feed Roller and turn the mig on , press the trigger on the hand piece then mig should run but wire shouldn't spool out .
While doing that look at the glass tube and where the ball is , try turning the flow rate knob that one on the left that says on - off and see if you can get it to move if it does move it to 8Lpm .
Gas flow rate can be a bit up or down from 8 but if you get little holes in the weld you need to increase it , just for chits and giggles check your hose connections to make sure you don't have any blockages kinked hoses or loose connections .
If your getting flow on Tig I'm betting it's something stupid like a blocked hose or connection , your problem is not the argon it's either not getting out the end of the gun or at the right rate .

The hose I used for TIG is a custom made by BOC guy(didn't charge me at all) 'cos the connection on the TIG torch won't work with my cheap scratch start TIG unit as it has no gas connection on the machine. BOC guy used an adapter and made the hose for me so I can connect the TIG bottle regulator directly to the TIG torch. For MIG, I am using a separate see through hose from Pirtek, which appears to be working fine without any leaks(I use clamps on both sides as it is not an ideal hose for welding gas).
I'll have to grab another piece of proper hose from BOC tomorrow.

I think the flow meter is a faulty piece of rubbish, 'cos I couldn't get the ball to move with TIG either. It momentarily jumped when I opened the gas knob on the TIG torch and went back to bottom. I need to take a clear close-up picture of the flow meter reading gauge. I don't think it is litres per minute. It's something else. I hope I'm wrong about the flow meter, but the regulator flange that connects to the bottle had to be swapped 'cos the original flange didn't have a rubber O ring & leaked gas(wasn't fitting at all).
BOC guy gave me a piece of adapter which I swapped. I'll upload a picture soon. But, I think overall, the regulator+flow meter is not good. I might have to get a good reliable one from the local shop front.

[Rossco]

Gal is no good, do you have the same issues with just steel? Need to grind it back to fresh metal or welds will be horrible. I usually use about 10-15L / min of gas which is ample. . .

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk

[GQtdauto]

Gal is no good, do you have the same issues with just steel? Need to grind it back to fresh metal or welds will be horrible. I usually use about 10-15L / min of gas which is ample. . .

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk

Geez that's a generous amount of gas Rossco , yes gal can be tricky stuff to weld especially with light gear because you have to burn through the gal coating which is why I asked about grinding the gal off in the area to be welded .
Might be a good idea Dom about trying a bit of scrap steel that's got no coating on it .

[dom14]

Gal is no good, do you have the same issues with just steel? Need to grind it back to fresh metal or welds will be horrible. I usually use about 10-15L / min of gas which is ample. . .

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk

I did grind the area of that piece of base metal before I tested on it. First I did the TIG & it went ok even on the areas that I didn't grind off the gal.
I initially tried the MIG with argon on the areas where I ran the TIG torch & mild steel TIG filler. That didn't go well, and then I switched to the other areas of the metal where I didn't grind off the gal. It was the same.
So, I kinda 'figured' it must be the argon or the settings on the MIG or it's me.

[Tip12345]

right O that black knob on the flow regulator is how you adjust the flow .
pull the trigger watch the pea in the clear tube adjust the flow with the black knob .
start with about 6 .
you could always take the hose of the flow meter and see if anything comes out ..
you might have a blockage form a wasp or something

[GQtdauto]

Dom if I enlarge the photo of that metal you were welding I can clearly see gal coating and some spatter that looks like you've been soldering above it .
Trust me it's not the argon that's the problem it's lack of , the suggestion above might help reduce the possibles , undo the hose fitting onto the flow meter and using the flow meter on off tap see if you have flow .

[dom14]

right O that black knob on the flow regulator is how you adjust the flow .
pull the trigger watch the pea in the clear tube adjust the flow with the black knob .
start with about 6 .
you could always take the hose of the flow meter and see if anything comes out ..
you might have a blockage form a wasp or something

It's possible I might have created some blockage when I swapped the connecting end of the gas regulator.
I had to swap it over(as in below picture), and some of the powdery threat sealant might have got sucked into the flow meter when I blew the powdery dust off.
Another thing I'm not sure is that I had to use ordinary plumbers Teflon tape as I didn't have anything specific job.

[dom14]

I think the flow meter is a faulty piece of rubbish, 'cos I couldn't get the ball to move with TIG either. It momentarily jumped when I opened the gas knob on the TIG torch and went back to bottom. I need to take a clear close-up picture of the flow meter reading gauge. I don't think it is litres per minute. It's something else. I hope I'm wrong about the flow meter, but the regulator flange that connects to the bottle had to be swapped 'cos the original flange didn't have a rubber O ring & leaked gas(wasn't fitting at all).
BOC guy gave me a piece of adapter which I swapped. I'll upload a picture soon. But, I think overall, the regulator+flow meter is not good. I might have to get a good reliable one from the local shop front.

I was wrong above. It does has Litres per Minute printed on it, I just wasn't able to see it last nite. :)

[dom14]

This is where I bought the regulator from.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AU-G5-8-Argon-CO2-Gas-Mig-Tig-Flowmeter-Regulator-Welding-Weld-Gauge-Welder/252848099849?epid=847411196&hash=item3adeebd209:g:ywwAAOSwytlZukCu

The fitting end of the regulator has no O ring on it. i guess I got what I paid for.
But, I'm still wondering about the fitting end not having an O ring. Makes no sense to me.

[Rossco]

Can you hear it come out when you pull the trigger? I know with my generous settings is got a very noticeable hiss. . .

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[dom14]

Can you hear it come out when you pull the trigger? I know with my generous settings is got a very noticeable hiss. . .

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk

Yep, as loud as my bean farts. :)

[GQtdauto]

Ok you set it at about 17 LPM ,back it of to ten and if you can hear it coming out grab a bit of steel that's not gal or painted and try another weld , I'm still not sure on wire composition it should be copper coated mild steel wire or general purpose I'd hate to think you've got some fancy alloy wire that's special purpose .
Some fittings don't require Orings but you can test for leaks with soapy water and if it was supposed to have an Oring there would be a groove for it and you might not be able to tighten it properly without one making the fitting loose .

[Tip12345]

Are you sure that's the right tip .It looks wrong to me ... some have a shoulder for them to seat on . it might be blocking the gas holes up .

[Tip12345]

take a look at Binzel tips . there is something strange going on here

[GQtdauto]

Are you sure that's the right tip .It looks wrong to me ... some have a shoulder for them to seat on . it might be blocking the gas holes up .

In one photo it looks ok but the rest appear to show brass covering the inside of the gas holes , the tip is copper so it's not the tip , did you check the holes Dom or can you take a photo at a better angle of the gas ports .

[dom14]

Are you sure that's the right tip .It looks wrong to me ... some have a shoulder for them to seat on . it might be blocking the gas holes up .

By "tip" if you meant the fitting that goes into the gas bottle, the silver one is the old one(without the O ring) which I replaced with the one given to me by the BOC guy. The original silver one did not seal and leaked gas like hell. I dunno whether it's done some damage to the fitting on the bottle, but it looked ok.

[dom14]

This is the open hose flow rate video. The gas tap is fully opened on the bottle, and the flow meter knob is fully open as well.

The maximum flow rate I seem to be getting is 10L/m, no matter how wide it is opened.

https://youtu.be/IOWvdfGY4sQ

[dom14]

This is the video of flow rate from the MIG nozzle. The gas tap is fully opened on the bottle, and the flow meter knob is fully open as well.
Something obviously not right with this picture. I am getting gas out of the MIG nozzle(consistent), but according to the flow meter(if it is accurate) I
am not getting enough flow.

Pardon me about the background noise from the rain, but you can still hear the hissing out of the nozzle, as well as the jumping ball inside the flow meter.

https://youtu.be/F1urQo90oug

[dom14]

This is the video of the MIG welder welding with maximum settings. Amps/volts highest(130 amp MIG welder) & highest line feed speed. The piece of metal is ground to remove all the gal.

The gas tap is fully opened on the bottle, and the flow meter knob is fully open as well.

https://youtu.be/KAHQXcitywQ

[dom14]

This is the above weld close-up. It looks like to me either argon starvation or if not that then argon cooling the weld too much to make it a useful weld.

The weld beads(or balls rather in this case) aren't welded to the base piece at all. I can break them off easily with the screw driver.

https://youtu.be/mfYLnXJT6JE

[dom14]

In one photo it looks ok but the rest appear to show brass covering the inside of the gas holes , the tip is copper so it's not the tip , did you check the holes Dom or can you take a photo at a better angle of the gas ports .

If you meant the gas holes on the MIG nozzle holder?
Gimme a minute. I'll take few pictures and upload it.

[Ben-e-boy]

This is the video of the MIG welder welding with maximum settings. Amps/volts highest(130 amp MIG welder) & highest line feed speed. The piece of metal is ground to remove all the gal.

The gas tap is fully opened on the bottle, and the flow meter knob is fully open as well.

https://youtu.be/KAHQXcitywQ

Why are you just waiving the gun around? You aren't going to get anywhere doing that crap.

[BigRAWesty]

Pure argon is a pain with mig.
Argoshield has oxygen and carbon dioxide??? In it.
These serve 2 purposes.
One is to create a better arc transition so a smoother weld, but also more heat.
So with pure Argo you'll find you'll always have a rough, tall weld.
I tried playing with argon as I had the bottle with my tig welder..
It's a pita and just but the bullet and got argosheild

[BigRAWesty]

Ok just went into the thread more.
First post looks like your trying to weld galv steel..
That'll explain a lot of it.
Throw it in the bin and get some scrap black steel from a workshop.. (if they are decent they'll let you grab some scrap from bins..)

Secondly.
That's a very small mig.
3mm think will be about max material thickness.
And .8 wire max.
.9 will be to big and require to much to weld it.

Ok.
So undo the wire feeder wheel.
Pull the trigger and set your gas flow. Want between 12 and 16 lpm.
You should be able to hear it and feel it on your cheek.

[GQtdauto]

Pure argon is a pain with mig.
Argoshield has oxygen and carbon dioxide??? In it.
These serve 2 purposes.
One is to create a better arc transition so a smoother weld, but also more heat.
So with pure Argo you'll find you'll always have a rough, tall weld.
I tried playing with argon as I had the bottle with my tig welder..
It's a pita and just but the bullet and got argosheild

Depending on output and setup it shouldn't matter Westy I have tried all combinations over the last 20 plus years , we only use straight argon at men's shed with no trouble at all , if you had to choose one gas and one gas to cover all applications it would be argon .
Check with Dr google and you'll find it's a common diy gas , if you were only ever going to weld low carbon steel I'd probably go a mix but the cost these days for swap and go is the same .
Dom can do stainless steel with his Tig if needed so it's a better option imo.

[GQtdauto]

Why are you just waiving the gun around? You aren't going to get anywhere doing that crap.

Mate Ben is right what are you doing way too fast and erratic with the hand piece , try pushing only and slow down .

[BigRAWesty]

Depending on output and setup it shouldn't matter Westy I have tried all combinations over the last 20 plus years , we only use straight argon at men's shed with no trouble at all , if you had to choose one gas and one gas to cover all applications it would be argon .
Check with Dr google and you'll find it's a common diy gas , if you were only ever going to weld low carbon steel I'd probably go a mix but the cost these days for swap and go is the same .
Dom can do stainless steel with his Tig if needed so it's a better option imo.Sure it's common but has side affects.
It'll weld, but you won't get smooth welds like argosheild. And with a welder that has 6 settings you need all assistance you can get..

Ok so just watch the vids..
It's still galv. That's what the black is coming from.
Hot dipped galv sheet of that thickness is probably penetrated 100%.
So imo to go forward, go bin that galv stuff.

Also don't just drag it. For setting up just hold it in one spot and pull the trigger..

[BigRAWesty]

Ok so you know what your up against.
As you'll see below the argosheild is a far smoother, flatter and consistent weld.. (left and top)
I simply swapped to argon, and left everything else the same, even the 12lpm flow rate.
As you can see it's much rougher, taller and looks cold. (Right and bottom)
You can also noticeable hear the difference..
You can also see the wide silver ring around the argon. That's the arc wandering. Because argon doesn't carry the arc as well it wanders, which creates that cold affect as the heat is wasted..
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/11/200.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/11/201.jpghttp://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/11/202.jpg

[Ben-e-boy]

Pure argon is a pain with mig.
Argoshield has oxygen and carbon dioxide??? In it.
These serve 2 purposes.
One is to create a better arc transition so a smoother weld, but also more heat.
So with pure Argo you'll find you'll always have a rough, tall weld.
I tried playing with argon as I had the bottle with my tig welder..
It's a pita and just but the bullet and got argosheild

Last time I tried straight argon with a mate the weld looked darker, even though we could see it getting into the root, the toes looked really cold

Edit
Just looked at the pics. That's what it looked like

2nd edit

You should cut it in half and polish and etch ( if you have any), see what the peno is like

[BigRAWesty]

Last time I tried straight argon with a mate the weld looked darker, even though we could see it getting into the root, the toes looked really coldSpot on mate, because the argon doesn't carry the arc well, it's wasted (as per my demo above).

[Ben-e-boy]

Spot on mate, because the argon doesn't carry the arc well, it's wasted (as per my demo above).

Yeah I saw that after I posted, i have 2 edits there too that you might have missed.

[dom14]

In one photo it looks ok but the rest appear to show brass covering the inside of the gas holes , the tip is copper so it's not the tip , did you check the holes Dom or can you take a photo at a better angle of the gas ports .

GQtdauto, this are the photos of the MIG tip/tip holder/nozzle holder, close-up.

[BigRAWesty]

Yeah I saw that after I posted, i have 2 edits there too that you might have missed.Haha.. see how I feel tonight lol. I've got a 44 gallon smoker I need to finish..

[dom14]

These are the photos of the fitting on the regulator that I had to swap over.

As you can see the original one(silver one) has no O ring.
I added pictures of the inside of the gas bottle fitting. It doesn't look like it's damaged.

[BigRAWesty]

GQtdauto, this are the photos of the MIG tip/tip holder/nozzle holder, close-up.If you undo that gas defuser (yellow bronze section) you'll find the mig liner (long coil looking thing) runs right up to the base of the conductor tip (Brown bit on the end with the wire coming out), so the gas holes may look blocked, but it's totally normal.

[Ben-e-boy]

Haha.. see how I feel tonight lol. I've got a 44 gallon smoker I need to finish..

Well being on the farken forum isn't going to get the smoker done.. chop chop :p

[BigRAWesty]

These are the photos of the fitting on the regulator that I had to swap over.

As you can see the original one(silver one) has no O ring.
I added pictures of the inside of the gas bottle fitting. It doesn't look like it's damaged.And while were on bottles (which look fine), you only need to crack the bottle open, not 100% like you did in your video.
When on opening a bottle it's only ever 1/4 turn, 1/2 max if I'm feeling generous or bottle is getting empty..
The pressure these bottles are under you don't need much..

[BigRAWesty]

Well being on the farken forum isn't going to get the smoker done.. chop chop :p🤣🤣🤣
It's getting there..http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/11/203.jpg

[dom14]

Mate Ben is right what are you doing way too fast and erratic with the hand piece , try pushing only and slow down .

Yeah, that is true. But, it won't make any difference even if I move slowly and keep the nozzle touched or almost touched. The welds come out bad regardless.

[dom14]

And while were on bottles (which look fine), you only need to crack the bottle open, not 100% like you did in your video.
When on opening a bottle it's only ever 1/4 turn, 1/2 max if I'm feeling generous or bottle is getting empty..
The pressure these bottles are under you don't need much..

Ok, cool. I'll try with slightly open bottle, but from memory, the regulator pressure meter jumped all the way to 25Mpa from memory, even when I opened a little bit.

[dom14]

Ok, guys. This is the video I would really appreciate if you watch it & give me a verdict.

The first part is when the welder is turned off and the second part with the welder turned on, and with the same result.

Basically what I did is to open the bottle valve and then shut it allowing some gas to be trapped between the bottle valve & MIG nozzle.
The flow meter is fully opened. Now, instead of the dancing of the ball as in the previous video, the flow meter ball goes up to around 10L/m(the maximum flow rate that I've been able to get out of the flow meter so far, assuming it's accurate), and gradually drops without any dancing as the gas runs out.

https://youtu.be/CFr-xfYATOg


So, my question is,
Why the flow meter behaves normally(if you can call it normal) above but totally different when a constant pressure is applied by opening the bottle valve?

Bad regulator? and perhaps bad flow meter as well?

To make sense of what I'm talking about, here is the previous video with bottle valve fully opened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1urQo90oug&feature=youtu.be

[BigRAWesty]

Ok, guys. This is the video I would really appreciate if you watch it & give me a verdict.

The first part is when the welder is turned off and the second part with the welder turned on, and with the same result.

Basically what I did is to open the bottle valve and then shut it allowing some gas to be trapped between the bottle valve & MIG nozzle.
The flow meter is fully opened. Now, instead of the dancing of the ball as in the previous video, the flow meter ball goes up to around 10L/m(the maximum flow rate that I've been able to get out of the flow meter so far, assuming it's accurate), and gradually drops without any dancing as the gas runs out.

https://youtu.be/CFr-xfYATOg


So, my question is,
Why the flow meter behaves normally(if you can call it normal) above but totally different when a constant pressure is applied by opening the bottle valve?

Bad regulator? and perhaps bad flow meter as well?

To make sense of what I'm talking about, here is the previous video with bottle valve fully opened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1urQo90oug&feature=youtu.beSaying video is not found sorry mate.
So I do agree that the reg isn't brillant.
However the pulse of gas would be nil by the time it gets to the nozel.
Mine bounces a little but settles after a bit of consistent flow.
However.
If you can hear the flow and feel it on your cheek you have enough flow..
What size wire are you running??

[GQtdauto]

Westy might be onto it , only open the gas bottle max half a turn not full , the first video is how it should behave second is abnormal mate and explains the crap weld but I'm still worried about the rapid torch movement .
Try it again only opening as Westy says quarter to half a turn .
Have you checked your email mate I sent you this info yesterday .

[dom14]

Saying video is not found sorry mate.
So I do agree that the reg isn't brillant.
However the pulse of gas would be nil by the time it gets to the nozel.
Mine bounces a little but settles after a bit of consistent flow.
However.
If you can hear the flow and feel it on your cheek you have enough flow..
What size wire are you running??

If you meant the bottle, it's size D.
The tip and the wire is 0.8mm.

What did you mean the video is not found? Not working on your end?
It seems ok from my end.

Thanx

[dom14]

Westy might be onto it , only open the gas bottle max half a turn not full , the first video is how it should behave second is abnormal mate and explains the crap weld but I'm still worried about the rapid torch movement .
Try it again only opening as Westy says quarter to half a turn .
Have you checked your email mate I sent you this info yesterday .

Ok, cool. I'll give it another go now and see how it goes.

[dom14]

I'm wondering.
How is it possible for the gas to flow from the trigger at the nozzle when the welder is turned off, as in the first part of this video?
Is it normal?
I was thinking the gas valve in the MIG welder is activated electrically, when the trigger is pressed on the MIG gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFr-xfYATOg&feature=youtu.be

[BigRAWesty]

If you meant the bottle, it's size D.
The tip and the wire is 0.8mm.

What did you mean the video is not found? Not working on your end?
It seems ok from my end.

ThanxYea video is not working.
So .8 is the max that machine can handle.
For comparison my 180A mig is recommended to run .8

[dom14]

Yea video is not working.
So .8 is the max that machine can handle.
For comparison my 180A mig is recommended to run .8

Thanx mate. I'll try a thinner wire(0.6mm?) then, and see how it goes.

BTW, opening the regulator slightly or running the bead slowly and steady won't make any difference, neither would doing it on a super clean
piece of steel.

Videos are working fine. Something's not right with your end, perhaps the youtube app in your phone may be playing up.

[dom14]

Westy might be onto it , only open the gas bottle max half a turn not full , the first video is how it should behave second is abnormal mate and explains the crap weld but I'm still worried about the rapid torch movement .
Try it again only opening as Westy says quarter to half a turn .
Have you checked your email mate I sent you this info yesterday .

Thanx for the email mate, but I didn't check it. I'll check it shortly.

[GQtdauto]

Gas shouldn't come out till you press the trigger (pre flow) then after you finish welding and release the trigger you still get gas coming out (post flow) these are fully adjustable on more expensive (better) welding machines .
Gas should only come out when trigger is pressed or for a short time after it's released .

[dom14]

Gas shouldn't come out till you press the trigger (pre flow) then after you finish welding and release the trigger you still get gas coming out (post flow) these are fully adjustable on more expensive (better) welding machines .
Gas should only come out when trigger is pressed or for a short time after it's released .

Yeah, but this cheap MIG machine doesn't has those pre flow and post flow from what I can see mate.
I hope I'm wrong about that.

Even for the TIG machine I have, I would have to control pre-flow/post flow manually until I get the AC TIG unit that I'm planning to get soon.

[BigRAWesty]

Thanx mate. I'll try a thinner wire(0.6mm?) then, and see how it goes.

BTW, opening the regulator slightly or running the bead slowly and steady won't make any difference, neither would doing it on a super clean
piece of steel.

Videos are working fine. Something's not right with your end, perhaps the youtube app in your phone may be playing up.So it's working on a quote but not on your original post lol..
Anyway.
So Yea, reg ain't the best.
I'd suspect it's built for lesser pressure, that's why it's so far on your bottle gauge and skittish..
But, will that affect flow at the nozzel. Doubt it.
If you can hear it and feel it you have gas.
However by taking the lines on and off all the time you are filling them with oxygen, so purge the system by allowing gas to flow through, 10 seconds will be plenty..

Personally, get some black steel as the galv will have fully penetrated that stiff you have.
Grind it up clean.
Half wire speed (5) an and voltage set to max 1.
Adjust wire from there.
These cheap welders have a poor duty cycle so on max 2 you may only get 100m weld at a time before it stops..

[dom14]

So it's working on a quote but not on your original post lol..
Anyway.
So Yea, reg ain't the best.
I'd suspect it's built for lesser pressure, that's why it's so far on your bottle gauge and skittish..
But, will that affect flow at the nozzel. Doubt it.
If you can hear it and feel it you have gas.
However by taking the lines on and off all the time you are filling them with oxygen, so purge the system by allowing gas to flow through, 10 seconds will be plenty..

Personally, get some black steel as the galv will have fully penetrated that stiff you have.
Grind it up clean.
Half wire speed (5) an and voltage set to max 1.
Adjust wire from there.
These cheap welders have a poor duty cycle so on max 2 you may only get 100m weld at a time before it stops..

Thanx mate.
Duty cycle is not an issue at this stage.
I guess as I progress, I will move onto a better machine, but my real focus is on TIG, particularly TIG AC.
I need MIG to handle more rugged work like the trailer cage that I've been building out of scrap, as I've made a mess of it by
doing most of it using the stick welder.

I can hear and feel the gas 100%, but just can't decode what I see on the flow meter.
I turned the below pictured(arrowed) screw on the regulator anti-clockwise using a spanner(which I haven't had a clue about as an adjuster of regulator pressure, but it appears that is the case), and the flow rate on the flow meter started moving higher than 10L/m with open hose. I'm yet to test it with the MIG welder as it got dark, so It's gonna have to be tomorrow morning or late arvo.

I think I was getting argon flow, but not strong enough for MIG to work at least a little bit. I reckon it was working with the TIG with low flow 'cos I used the smallest TIG torch with the smallest tungsten tip.

I'm pretty sure it's not the metal 'cos I did it on a clean piece of steel as well. I think as you described above, it is the low amp weak machine combined with too thick MIG wire to handle with argon.

I might have some luck with thinner MIG wire, but that means I need to buy the 0.6mm rollers as well, don't I?!

[GQtdauto]

Yes you will but check the feed roller isn't double sided (two grooves) you may be lucky enough to have .8 and .6 grooves .
You also need smaller contact tips .
If what you did to the regulator gives you a steady flow try it all again with a weld .

[dom14]

Yes you will but check the feed roller isn't double sided (two grooves) you may be lucky enough to have .8 and .6 grooves .
You also need smaller contact tips .
If what you did to the regulator gives you a steady flow try it all again with a weld .

Yep, I'll try tomorrow first thing and if I get reasonably ok weld beads with that, I don't need to spend money on MIG gas bottle that I don't have atm. :)
Of course, eventually I will need to get proper MIG gas mixture, but need to go easy with spending in the meantime. :)

I think the roller is 0.8 and 0.9 double grooved(That's the way it is with the gasless one).

To get it to roll 0.6mm wire, I need to swap both top and bottom rollers don't I??!!

[GQtdauto]

Bugger about the rollers but I don't think they're too expensive , and yes if the flow is now stable worth trying again .
Meant to ask how much the gas cost .

[billyj]

tbh mate with the power level of this mig or more the lack there of you would be better off putting the time and effort into becoming better at stick welding and save the gas for your tig efforts if you need to weld real thin stuff. between practice and trying some different electrodes you will find a combo that works for you. ive successfully gone down to 1mm sheet with a stick before, yes it was slow and tedious but its doable. and the difference between a generic gp rods behavior and a nice low hydrogen rod is massive. you can get rods that will freeze up faster or be more liquid

the hard truth is that with a small hobby mig and pure argon your never going to get good results

[dom14]

Bugger about the rollers but I don't think they're too expensive , and yes if the flow is now stable worth trying again .
Meant to ask how much the gas cost .

It's D size. So it has 2 cubic metres of gas in it according to the label on it.
The empty bottle is $200 which I can recover when I return the bottle to Bunnings.
The gas is $99. It's the same price for both pure argon & argon/co2 mix.
The same size refill is $69 at Gasweld Dandenong, but they charge too much for the bottle & the bottle
can't be returned. So, Bunnings has the best deal overall.
I'm ok with the cost of the gas 'cos I won't be using much of it as a hobbyist, but the bottle cost is too
much from Gasweld or Total Tools for me to own it.

I think the either the rent or outright owning it, the price tag on the empty bottle is a rip off.
They aren't worth anywhere near that in terms of their manufacturing cost.

A mate of mine picked up a large E size bottle(a spotless one) from the side of the road near Sydney and
brought it home & was planning to get it stamped. The only issue is all these companies won't accept bottles
other than their own. It is a well organized rip off I reckon, be it a rental or buying a bottle from them.
What Bunnings is doing is a good thing I reckon. Their $200 deposit system is a quite fair, 'cos Gasweld charged
around $270 for the D size empty bottle that we can't return to get the money back.

P.S.
It appears Gasweld has revised their prices in last few days or so.??!!
Here their D size argon refill is $97 now.
I was sure it was $69 few days ago.
This means their empty bottle is $225 now.
http://www.gasweld.com.au/speed-gas-gas-argon-gas-refill-d-size-gas-only-gas-d-argon
http://www.gasweld.com.au/speed-gas-gas-kit-argon-d-size-includes-bottle-argon-gas-argon-d-kit

[dom14]

tbh mate with the power level of this mig or more the lack there of you would be better off putting the time and effort into becoming better at stick welding and save the gas for your tig efforts if you need to weld real thin stuff. between practice and trying some different electrodes you will find a combo that works for you. ive successfully gone down to 1mm sheet with a stick before, yes it was slow and tedious but its doable. and the difference between a generic gp rods behavior and a nice low hydrogen rod is massive. you can get rods that will freeze up faster or be more liquid

the hard truth is that with a small hobby mig and pure argon your never going to get good results

Yeah, I agree with you 100% mate. It is only temporary thing for me to use(or rather try to use) argon with my el cheapo MIG unit.
I am focusing on TIG and particularly TIG AC as I progress.
I did an OK job with the stick welder on the trailer cage and other projects and yes I did learn to weld really thin sheet metal with the
stick welder by managing heat and adjusting the amp, and yet it is time consuming and somewhat noisy comparing to MIG or TIG, but far
lot cheaper than MIG or TIG. :)
Basically, I built the cage with a $10 pack of welding sticks & some electricity and some time.
Time was the most concern 'cos I had to take time with scraping off the slag.
But, couldn't have been any quicker with MIG and TIG 'cos the scrap I used had to be wirebrushed regardless of that.
And the stick welder came really handy on bits where I couldn't be bothered to wirebrush. :)
It's the burning toxic gases of paint and gal I need to worry about, so I did my best to wear a hanky around my face as much as I can. :D

Stick welding is necessary one way or the other when building a trailer or trailer cage I believe.

Believe it or not, I patched up a 0.5mm thin sheet metal muffler using the stick welder. :D
Don't ask me how I managed that, I have no memory of it. :D

[billyj]

well free tip no1, go grab a box of wia or esab 16tc rods 7016, they run alot nicer than cheap gp rods which are probly a 6013 and you can clearly see the slag sitting on top of the weld as your laying it makes it slot easier to lay a nice weld without getting any slag inclusions

even brand name gp rods like cig's satincraft rods are a big improvement over bunnings home brand rods

[dom14]

well free tip no1, go grab a box of wia or esab 16tc rods 7016, they run alot nicer than cheap gp rods which are probly a 6013 and you can clearly see the slag sitting on top of the weld as your laying it makes it slot easier to lay a nice weld without getting any slag inclusions

even brand name gp rods like cig's satincraft rods are a big improvement over bunnings home brand rods

I've had some dearer Cigweld sticks but lost them somewhere in the garage, and only found them yesterday.
I could've done a better job with my bad looking stick weld beads had I have it in time. :)

Yeah, there are some specialized welding sticks that can do amazing work including thin sheet metal.
I once saw a guy welded two shaving blades together perfectly using a stick welder and a special sticks.

Thanx for the tip. I'm not well versed with different types welding sticks and their code names. 6013 is the one I'm familiar with and
have been using, most of the time.

Cheers

[dom14]

Bugger about the rollers but I don't think they're too expensive , and yes if the flow is now stable worth trying again .
Meant to ask how much the gas cost .

The movable top roller is cheap, but I'm not sure about the other one 'cos it may come as a unit.
I'll have to check with Bunnings or BOC.

[GQtdauto]

The movable top roller is cheap, but I'm not sure about the other one 'cos it may come as a unit.
I'll have to check with Bunnings or BOC.

Should only need the roller with the grooves , well all the migs I've seen not sure about cheaper units but can't see them being any different .

[dom14]

Should only need the roller with the grooves , well all the migs I've seen not sure about cheaper units but can't see them being any different .

Yeah mate, you're right, I was reading the manual wrong. It will be cheap.
I haven't given up on doing MIG with my el cheapo machine with argon yet! :)

[dom14]

well free tip no1, go grab a box of wia or esab 16tc rods 7016, they run alot nicer
billyj
Is this the same one? or a cheaper one with the same number?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-6mm-Stick-Electrodes-400g-Handy-pack-E7016-Low-Hydrogen-Welding-Rods/111949450500?hash=item1a10b50d04:g:vfoAAOSwwxlZkYU v

[dom14]

Hey Guys,

Which regulator should I go for out of these two?
One is Trade Flame brand and the other is Cigweld.
Cigweld one seems to be covering slightly more flow rate & slightly more pressure from the bottle as well.
Also the Cigweld one has the flowmeter on left(kinda intuitive to me 'cos flowmeter comes after the pressure gauge).

They both are the same price.
Trade flame's from Bunnings, & the Cigweld is from Total Tools.

I'll have to return one of them.

Thanx in advance for any advice or opinions.

Cheers

[dom14]

This is the best I've got so far with argon. This is after wirebrushing it with angle grinder wire brush, so all the soot circles around the welds have been removed. It was with various flow rates(from 5L/m to 20 or so)

Next try will be with gasless wire with argon. :)

[billyj]

billyj
Is this the same one? or a cheaper one with the same number?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-6mm-Stick-Electrodes-400g-Handy-pack-E7016-Low-Hydrogen-Welding-Rods/111949450500?hash=item1a10b50d04:g:vfoAAOSwwxlZkYU v

cant say ive ever seen that brand before if i was going to bet id reckon there probly a chinese copy of a good rod

[billyj]

This is the best I've got so far with argon. This is after wirebrushing it with angle grinder wire brush, so all the soot circles around the welds have been removed. It was with various flow rates(from 5L/m to 20 or so)

Next try will be with gasless wire with argon. :)
you do know that when going from gas to gasless and vise versa that you need to switch the polarity on the welder

[dom14]

you do know that when going from gas to gasless and vise versa that you need to switch the polarity on the welder

I do now. :D
I've never had a gas & gasless on the same unit, so the polarity reversal was new news to me. :)

[dom14]

Here is the video(s) where I did the 0.6mm wire without gas(pure argon)
This is amazing guys. I'm getting "better"(kinda) results without pure argon or any gas for that matter. :)

When I moved the gun, there was too much splatter(even though I moved and kept the gun almost touching the base metal or actually touching it with the nozzle).
The bead to the left is where I moved the gun(but didn't record in on video).
The 'bead' to the right is the one from the video where I got better results than with pure argon.

Now, I'm beginning to wonder whether there is a need for shielding gas at all, considering how bad the beads were with pure argon. :D

The weld tack I produced by keeping the gun on the same place was pretty strong. I couldn't get it off by hammering on it hard, whereas the pure argon shielded beads were able to remove with a flat screwdriver(without even hitting it). :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_svv_JmpjI&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bflpxMEbKvQ&feature=youtu.be

I'm pretty intrigued by the above result.
I think it's about time I try either with pure CO2 or argon/co2 MIG mix. :)

[BigRAWesty]

Here is the video(s) where I did the 0.6mm wire without gas(pure argon)
This is amazing guys. I'm getting "better"(kinda) results without pure argon or any gas for that matter. :)

When I moved the gun, there was too much splatter(even though I moved and kept the gun almost touching the base metal or actually touching it with the nozzle).
The bead to the left is where I moved the gun(but didn't record in on video).
The 'bead' to the right is the one from the video where I got better results than with pure argon.

Now, I'm beginning to wonder whether there is a need for shielding gas at all, considering how bad the beads were with pure argon. :D

The weld tack I produced by keeping the gun on the same place was pretty strong. I couldn't get it off by hammering on it hard, whereas the pure argon shielded beads were able to remove with a flat screwdriver(without even hitting it). :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_svv_JmpjI&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bflpxMEbKvQ&feature=youtu.be

I'm pretty intrigued by the above result.
I think it's about time I try either with pure CO2 or argon/co2 MIG mix. :)Flux core (gasless) is made to be run without gas. It is literally an electrode on a roll. The flex burns and produces the correct gas to shield the weld pool, by using gas your messing with the flux gas and stuffing it up..
You can buy flux core that needs gas aswell but that's usually very heavy industrial and outside stuff..
Flux core needs to be treated like a stick welder.
You drag the slag, so pull the hand piece with flux core not push like a solid wire..
Imo invest in a mig shield gas.
It's chalk and cheese and really I think your trying to push shit up a very steep slope with Argo and that welder.

[mudski]

you do know that when going from gas to gasless and vise versa that you need to switch the polarity on the welder

I was just thinking this when reading this thread. Has Dom got the polarities mixed up, i.e on gasless, whilst trying to weld with gas?

[dom14]

Flux core (gasless) is made to be run without gas. It is literally an electrode on a roll. The flex burns and produces the correct gas to shield the weld pool, by using gas your messing with the flux gas and stuffing it up..
You can buy flux core that needs gas aswell but that's usually very heavy industrial and outside stuff..
Flux core needs to be treated like a stick welder.
You drag the slag, so pull the hand piece with flux core not push like a solid wire..
Imo invest in a mig shield gas.
It's chalk and cheese and really I think your trying to push shit up a very steep slope with Argo and that welder.

Yeah mate, this Mishto el cheapo MIG welder isn't meant for pure argon experiment.

BTW, above video(s) were showing the Mishto 130 amp MIG welder with solid 0.6mm wire(not gasless wire) with highest amp/volt setting with the speed of 5 out of 10, and most importantly NO shielding gas. I just wanted to see whether I can 'weld' without gas on solid wire & compare it to my previous pure argon MIG welding attempt videos.

I am beginning to think even with a good MIG welder, using pure argon may demand a bit of tweaking experience that comes with MIG welding for a while. I will need to spend some good hours just practising.

Cheers.

[dom14]

I was just thinking this when reading this thread. Has Dom got the polarities mixed up, i.e on gasless, whilst trying to weld with gas?

Nope, just pushing shit on a steep uphill as Kallen explained above. :D
My el cheapo MIG welder & my inexperience with technique and tweaking won't allow me to get any useful welds out of pure argon.
I'll have to get argon/co2 mix or just stick with gasless MIG welder for the time being. :)

[dom14]

I have to crack open the machine to reverse the polarity to experiment with gasless wire with argon.
That's bit too much screwing around with thiis cheap machine.
That experiment has been put off indefinitely until I get a better machine. :D

[BigRAWesty]

Yeah mate, this Mishto el cheapo MIG welder isn't meant for pure argon experiment.

BTW, above video(s) were showing the Mishto 130 amp MIG welder with solid 0.6mm wire(not gasless wire) with highest amp/volt setting with the speed of 5 out of 10, and most importantly NO shielding gas. I just wanted to see whether I can 'weld' without gas on solid wire & compare it to my previous pure argon MIG welding attempt videos.

I am beginning to think even with a good MIG welder, using pure argon may demand a bit of tweaking experience that comes with MIG welding for a while. I will need to spend some good hours just practising.

Cheers.Yea unfortunately link didn't work to videos again (may be a tapatalk issue) so only basing reply off what was written.
As you seen in my demo welds argon and Argo shield make a very big difference to appearance and stability of your weld.
I also agree the welder is not cut out for what you want to trial.
In saying That, there are some good units around today.
Mine is the unimig 180 viper. Unimig a known for being a quality budget / middle market welder.
10A supply to boot.
$600 from memory.

[dom14]

Yea unfortunately link didn't work to videos again (may be a tapatalk issue) so only basing reply off what was written.
As you seen in my demo welds argon and Argo shield make a very big difference to appearance and stability of your weld.
I also agree the welder is not cut out for what you want to trial.
In saying That, there are some good units around today.
Mine is the unimig 180 viper. Unimig a known for being a quality budget / middle market welder.
10A supply to boot.
$600 from memory.

Yep.
I got an el cheapo 'cos I didn't wanna spend good money on a MIG, and wanted to inject that money rather into a good AC/DC TIG
machine which I still haven't worked out.
I think mine may be ok if I use proper MIG gas & use it only for upto 130amp range it is meant for.
I won't know whether the machine is good or how good it is until I get some MIG shielding gas.

I couldn't see the need for higher amp dearer MIG machine 'cos of the good stick welder I have & the ok TIG DC welder. If I had the money, I would've gone for a good MIG machine of course, but have to balance it accordingly where the most need is atm. :D

[billyj]

dom in all honesty your 130 amp mig is going to struggle on anything over about 3mm,if your looking at a good ac/dc tig machine then put the effort into learning that and learn to stick weld properly as most good tig units will do stick as well. you will be amazed the difference that a decent machine with good rods can make.

the biggest problem with small migs is you can lay a weld that may look nice but has stuff all penetration so is basically usless, at least with a stick machine generally if a weld looks good to the eye its going to be pretty strong

personally i use a unimig promig 240 for mig duties and have a couple of small cig inverters for stick work an older weldskill170 and new weldskill 180

[dom14]

dom in all honesty your 130 amp mig is going to struggle on anything over about 3mm,

Yeah mate, and that's all I need atm. I would and can use the stick and TIG for thicker metal.
All the metal tubing that I've been welding so far have been well under 3mm.
Only reason I haven't got any work done from the 130amp gas MIG is 'cos I couldn't get it to
work with pure argon, and that 'cos I have to be tightarse with spending another $300 on MIG gas. :)

[billyj]

Yeah mate, and that's all I need atm. I would and can use the stick and TIG for thicker metal.
All the metal tubing that I've been welding so far have been well under 3mm.
Only reason I haven't got any work done from the 130amp gas MIG is 'cos I couldn't get it to
work with pure argon, and that 'cos I have to be tightarse with spending another $300 on MIG gas. :)

my point is that even down to 1.6mm steel you will be able to stick weld it if you get a bit of practice and use decent rods that freeze up fast, not just cheap nasty gp rods from bunnings

[BigRAWesty]

Just watched your mid without gas video.
Turn the wire down. A lot. Like half what your on now so 2 to 3 maybe..

[dom14]

Just watched your mid without gas video.
Turn the wire down. A lot. Like half what your on now so 2 to 3 maybe..

Pretty interesting, isn't it? Those ugly looking solid wire 'welds' without gas actually welded to the base metal fairly strong. It kinda works as long as I don't move the MIG torch & only hold it in one spot. So, it's kinda possible to do kinda strong weld tacks without gas with solid wire.

[dom14]

my point is that even down to 1.6mm steel you will be able to stick weld it if you get a bit of practice and use decent rods that freeze up fast, not just cheap nasty gp rods from bunnings

Yeah mate, I've been stick welding 1mm and even below thickness pipes with stick welding, but it's time consuming as the hammering & scraping take up a fair bit of time. Also, it demands I wire brush the paint or gal off the pipes first, 'cos it easier to burn a hole through it when the paint or gal get in the way of controlling the heat. And I did with cheap sticks as well. Doesn't look good, but appears to be holding two pipes together.

[BigRAWesty]

Pretty interesting, isn't it? Those ugly looking solid wire 'welds' without gas actually welded to the base metal fairly strong. It kinda works as long as I don't move the MIG torch & only hold it in one spot. So, it's kinda possible to do kinda strong weld tacks without gas with solid wire.Not really. It may look ok from the outside but if you have to cut it open it would look like an aero bar on the inside

[dom14]

Not really. It may look ok from the outside but if you have to cut it open it would look like an aero bar on the inside

Ok, cool. I guess you meant there will be hollowness to that weld tack and it is soft and weaker?

[BigRAWesty]

Ok, cool. I guess you meant there will be hollowness to that weld tack and it is soft and weaker?Yep. It'll be no good

[billyj]

Yeah mate, I've been stick welding 1mm and even below thickness pipes with stick welding, but it's time consuming as the hammering & scraping take up a fair bit of time. Also, it demands I wire brush the paint or gal off the pipes first, 'cos it easier to burn a hole through it when the paint or gal get in the way of controlling the heat. And I did with cheap sticks as well. Doesn't look good, but appears to be holding two pipes together.

doesnt matter what welding process you use you should be grinding off any paint,gal,rust or scale first regardless. and a wire brush will not remove gal or scale just polishes it

without clean steel your just shooting yourself in the foot before you start

[dom14]

doesnt matter what welding process you use you should be grinding off any paint,gal,rust or scale first regardless. and a wire brush will not remove gal or scale just polishes it

without clean steel your just shooting yourself in the foot before you start

Ok, cool. I was using a heavy duty wire brush with an angle grinder. I thought it was removing gal with some elbow grease on it, but i reckon you're right. It can't be that easy, 'cos if the gal removes that easy, then that would defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?
Grinding it will be from now on, but that means PITA extra and careful grinding work for me. :)

I tried using gasless MIG today(with 0.9mm gasless wire and low setting with number 3 wire speed) on under 1mm thick mild steel pipes.
It was way too easy to blow a hole through it. So much so, I would've had better outcome with stick welder with low amp.
But, kept persevering to get it right. It is apparently more difficult to weld thin sheet metal with a gasless MIG than with a gas one,
and particularly my Ozito one, which I think 'cos of the lack of amp/volt control(Only low and high settings). Nothing in between.
The rest has to be controlled with wire speed & heat management/hand control.

[GQtdauto]

Ok, cool. I was using a heavy duty wire brush with an angle grinder. I thought it was removing gal with some elbow grease on it, but i reckon you're right. It can be that easy, 'cos if the gal removes that easy, then that would defeat the purpose, wouldn't it?
Grinding it will be from now on, but that means PITA extra and careful grinding work for me. :)

I tried using gasless MIG today(with 0.9mm gasless wire and low setting with number 3 wire speed) on under 1mm thick mild steel pipes.
It was way too easy to blow a hole through it. So much so, I would've had better outcome with stick welder with low amp.
But, kept persevering to get it right. It is apparently more difficult to weld thin sheet metal with a gasless MIG than with a gas one,
and particularly my Ozito one, which I think 'cos of the lack of amp/volt control(Only low and high settings). Nothing in between.
The rest has to be controlled with wire speed & heat management/hand control.

I use a flap disk Dom takes bugger all effort and easy as .