Connecting two trailers together

[dom14]

Hey guys,

I've been wondering whether there is a legal way to connect two small trailers together to tow them
one behind the other.

I'm wondering about the,
1)Technical & safety aspects of doing that without any issues
2)Legal side of it whether it's allowed or not

Basically my idea is to attach a small trailer(lets say 6x4 or 8x5) to the other by
fitting in a tow bar/hitch (typical tow ball coupling or different one) arrangement to the front trailer.

I see the "semi-trailers" on the road have such arrangements, but the tow 'ball'/hitch coupling arrangement they use it
different from standard trailers that we use with our vehicles 'cos those huge massive semi-trailers can be reversed with the same wheel turn as the vehicle, don't they? In other words truckie semi-trailers don't need the 'jack-knife' mucking around we do with our small trailers or typical caravan couplings!

I realize this means fitting a tow bar & hitch to the back of the front or main trailer, but that's ok if it is legally allowed. I also realize this can complicate the reversing process, but that may also be rectified by fitting a different type of coupling, rather than a standard tow ball coupling.

Any thoughts, ideas, opinion and advice would be great.

What I really like to do is what as in below picture semi trailers, but in a very small simpler scale.

73755
73756

[the evil twin]

If you are talking a Light Vehicle and standard Pig Trailers... totally illegal in all States and Territories

There was a fatal here about a month or two back from some Moron doing exactly that...

[dom14]

If you are talking a Light Vehicle and standard Pig Trailers... totally illegal in all States and Territories
.

Yeah, I guess that's what I meant. For example, having a Patrol towing an 8x5 trailer while having another 6x4 trailer attached to the back of the 8x5 trailer. I guess, even if it's legal, then there would be functionally challenging or impossible situation of backing up the whole trailer arrangement, unless rear most trailer coupling is a different one to the standard tow ball, so the rear most trailer moves same path as the front trailer.

I always wondered why we don't see that with light trailers while the massive semi-trailers tow huge ones without any issues on highways and freeways(obviously there are functional difficulty of maneuvering them in smaller roads).

I suspected it has to do with,
1)Special licensing requirements for being able to manoeuvre two trailers combined together like that(the extra training required to be able to skillfully maneuver such multiple trailer arrangements).
2)Special couplings those large semi-trailers use that allow them to manoeuvre the two trailers safely and easily, comparing to the
light vehicle tow ball couplings.

[dom14]

There was a fatal here about a month or two back from some Moron doing exactly that...

Yes, I remember seeing & hearing about that accident.
There must be a reason why it's allowed with those massive trailers while it's not allowed with small trailers.
I'm interested in whether it's flat out illegal or whether it can be legal with certain safety/technical arrangements as it would be with big semi-trailers.

[dom14]

I found this document regarding standard tow coupling methods in Australia.

https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/files/VSB6_SectionP_TowCoupling.pdf

[dom14]

And this,

https://www.nhvr.gov.au/files/201709-0643-vsb6-section-p-tow-couplings.pdf

[the evil twin]

IIRC VSB6 is still only for a single Trailer combination tho...

Road Trains are a whole separate issue again

[dom14]

IIRC VSB6 is still only for a single Trailer combination tho...

Road Trains are a whole separate issue again

Yes.
I'm trying to find out the reasons behind the outright illegality of the two trailer combination.
In ideal situations, if it's good for big semi-trailers, we(I) can argue it should be even better for smaller light weight trailers.
But, I don't see anybody doing that & I'm guessing that 'cos it's illegal.
And I can't stop wondering why it's illegal for light weight while it's legal for heavy weight.
I suspect coupling method is one reason, so assuming if the more advanced coupling method is used, then it should be ok.
Then I suspect there is a licensing requirement as well.
The usual heavy vehicle license need to be extended to include a "semi-trailer"(or road trains) I think.

Any thoughts?!

[4bye4]

Hi Dom, I am not sure that people don’t do it cos it’s illegal, more that it’s illegal because the engineering of the tow set up, axel positioning, loading and weight distribution, brakes and lighting are a completely different set up. Add to this the training and skills to control the rig and it is not the thing you want to see a tourist doing. Tow vehicle followed by a caravan then the boat and a couple of quads on a third trailer, no not a good look. It would give the mermaids something to think about though, if it was part of their jurisdiction or not.


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[nipagu7]

trailer couplings need to exert some downward force on the towball, if there is no downward force or worse still an upward force you will experience severe trailer sway. if the second trailer exerts downward force on it's towball it might negate the downward force of the first trailers coupling, causing swaying. in both truck pictures you posted all trailers were supported front and rear by wheel sets, simple box trailers only have supporting wheel sets (1 or 2) near the middle, allowing them to pivot, when they pivot the coupling up, things can go pear shaped very quickly.

[nipagu7]

i think i have seen trailers like the second trailer on the red truck you pictured, but like only about 10 foot by 6 foot wide. i think that the main reason they are not common is because they are heavy (taking into consideration an extra wheel set, brakes and steering). this would not leave as much load capacity before you hit GVM

[Fwdpatrol]

Not legal in Qld at least

[dom14]

Hi Dom, I am not sure that people don’t do it cos it’s illegal, more that it’s illegal because the engineering of the tow set up, axel positioning, loading and weight distribution, brakes and lighting are a completely different set up. Add to this the training and skills to control the rig and it is not the thing you want to see a tourist doing. Tow vehicle followed by a caravan then the boat and a couple of quads on a third trailer, no not a good look. It would give the mermaids something to think about though, if it was part of their jurisdiction or not.


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Yes, I can see that. It doesn't look good.
And obviously a tough ask when it comes to reversing such trailer trains, a functional impossibility I reckon. Standard tow ball coupling pig trailer only allows a single trailer to be reversed. Adding more in that setup means we can only go forward & safety wise it's a bad call.

I'm asking basic questions here I guess.
For example, why don't we have for axle sem-trailer type trailers for light vehicles, rather than
standard pig trailers that relies of the downward force on the towball to maintain the vertical balance
of the trailer??!!
Standard pig trailer demands we put most of the weight at the front end of the trailer for the whole setup to be stable.

Why can't we make caravans and trailers(light weight of course) with for axles similar to semi-trailer setup & utilize a coupling method similar to those heavy semi-trailer setups? Would that not make it safer & more reliable to tow?

Sure, if the standard car license isn't enough to drive such a setup, it can easily meant the driver of such a setup need to get truck/semi-trailer license upgrade by going through a necessary training and assessment.

[dom14]

i think i have seen trailers like the second trailer on the red truck you pictured, but like only about 10 foot by 6 foot wide. i think that the main reason they are not common is because they are heavy (taking into consideration an extra wheel set, brakes and steering). this would not leave as much load capacity before you hit GVM

Yeah, I think you explained the reasons above pretty well.
It might have something to do with load capacity & GVM.
Light vehicles won't be able to tow double axle smaller & lighter version of the heavy semi-trailers without hitting the load capacity
& GVM.

I was wondering the double axle pig trailers out there could be made with axles apart like in a semi-trailer & a coupling method similar to those heavy semi-trailers. This would remove the need for the weight to be at the front and also can employ a more sophisticated coupling system similar to heavy semi-trailers. I'm wondering whether that is a possibility, without violating any existing laws or licensing requirements.

[Bush Ranger]

This subject reminds me of an article that I read in a RAC magazine about fifth wheelers. Apparently they are okay to drive in every state of Australia, but are classified as semi trailers in ACT. Has any one heard of this?

[dom14]

This subject reminds me of an article that I read in a RAC magazine about fifth wheelers. Apparently they are okay to drive in every state of Australia, but are classified as semi trailers in ACT. Has any one heard of this?

Did you mean the below picture? That's what I've got after google imaging it("fifth wheelers").
It's the first time I've come across that term, but the picture is not so unfamiliar though.
I've seen it,and I've seen guys modifying caravans to be able to tow as a "fifth wheeler"(assuming that's the term)
using a ute. I would say they are ok to drive anywhere in Australia, as you said above.
But, ACT classifying them as "semi-trailers" means anybody driving a one would need an upgraded drivers license to cover
that category?!

73766

[dom14]

And check this out. There is an apparent long history to them.

https://speedhero.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/1946-vw-beetle-pickup-f3q-bw.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeXbMwrdEALhYw9zm3cBlu4Rz1UYj-LcTiqwpw9UiebtPA3qYv

http://caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/adams-motor-bungalow-1917-Glenn-Curtiss-museam-e1401922536313.png

[nipagu7]

yeah , 5th wheelers have been around for a long time . they are basicly a light weight semi trailer setup . i have also seen 5th wheeler setups with a pig trailer on the back, but i think it was in the US.

[nipagu7]

i tried to open your attachments dom but no go.

[the evil twin]

This subject reminds me of an article that I read in a RAC magazine about fifth wheelers. Apparently they are okay to drive in every state of Australia, but are classified as semi trailers in ACT. Has any one heard of this?

As you mention, 5th Wheelers for LV's are OK in all States an Territories on C or LR license and have been for decades except ACT.
Up until about 30 years ago the most common configuration was horse floats but once it became viable to 'convert' the Yank or Canadian models to ADR compliance (240 Volt/LH door/LPG/etc) the Aussie demand exploded and several Aussie Companies now make some very nice units.

Demand in Aus is so high now that the Yanks et al make ADR compliant models ex factory and Aussie models are made by Jayco Fifth Wheeler, Southern Cross Fifth Wheel Caravans, Winjana Fifth Wheelers, Travelhome, Venture Fifth Wheelers and Dryden Trailerhomes.

Back to the good old ACT...
The ACT had a different wording to the other states in their Licensing Act so it was indeed illegal to drive them into the ACT unless the Driver had the appropriate HC License.
The rigs themselves were always quite OK
Obviously this was affecting Tourism etc so this anomaly was rectified a few years ago now http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/es/db_50929/20141127-59701/pdf/db_50929.pdf

Bottom line is you can now go anywhere in Aus with a fifth wheeler on a C or LR license (as determined by the tow vehicle)

[dom14]

i tried to open your attachments dom but no go.

I dunno what happened. They were working fine last nite.
I gota have a look at it to find out what's going on.

[dom14]

i tried to open your attachments dom but no go.

Try now. I fixed it by attaching the images as links.

[dom14]

As you mention, 5th Wheelers for LV's are OK in all States an Territories on C or LR license and have been for decades except ACT.
Up until about 30 years ago the most common configuration was horse floats but once it became viable to 'convert' the Yank or Canadian models to ADR compliance (240 Volt/LH door/LPG/etc) the Aussie demand exploded and several Aussie Companies now make some very nice units.

Demand in Aus is so high now that the Yanks et al make ADR compliant models ex factory and Aussie models are made by Jayco Fifth Wheeler, Southern Cross Fifth Wheel Caravans, Winjana Fifth Wheelers, Travelhome, Venture Fifth Wheelers and Dryden Trailerhomes.

Back to the good old ACT...
The ACT had a different wording to the other states in their Licensing Act so it was indeed illegal to drive them into the ACT unless the Driver had the appropriate HC License.
The rigs themselves were always quite OK
Obviously this was affecting Tourism etc so this anomaly was rectified a few years ago now http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/es/db_50929/20141127-59701/pdf/db_50929.pdf

Bottom line is you can now go anywhere in Aus with a fifth wheeler on a C or LR license (as determined by the tow vehicle)

Yeah, good to know about these license categories in VIC.
I'm considering upgrading my license to include the next weight range or semi-trailers(but I don't think it's allowed as a single step).

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/licences/licence-and-permit-types/licence-categories

[Bush Ranger]

Did you mean the below picture? That's what I've got after google imaging it("fifth wheelers").
It's the first time I've come across that term, but the picture is not so unfamiliar though.
I've seen it,and I've seen guys modifying caravans to be able to tow as a "fifth wheeler"(assuming that's the term)
using a ute. I would say they are ok to drive anywhere in Australia, as you said above.
But, ACT classifying them as "semi-trailers" means anybody driving a one would need an upgraded drivers license to cover
that category?!

73766

That`s it dom14. LR licence would be required I`d assume.

[dom14]

That`s it dom14. LR licence would be required I`d assume.

The one in the picture looks too massive for the ute, doesn't it?
But, I bet it's built pretty light weight, and probably only fraction of weight of the vehicle.
I wonder whether occupiers are allowed in fifth wheelers like the above while it's moving.

[firm351]

Umless the occupant is a horse and fifth wheeler is a horse float I would say no. Just like any other trailer.

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[the evil twin]

What he said X2 ^^^

Livestock only in any trailer, no Humans permitted.
About the closest you get is a 'bendy bus' but they are a separate category again

[dom14]

What he said X2 ^^^

Livestock only in any trailer, no Humans permitted.
About the closest you get is a 'bendy bus' but they are a separate category again

That is flat out discrimination against humans. :D
Well........I'll see how the cop's gonna find out whether there is a human inside this fifth wheeler or not. :)

73803

[Trevorrr]

Yeah, good to know about these (https://playclub-uk.com) license categories in VIC.
I'm considering upgrading my license to include the next weight range or semi-trailers(but I don't think it's allowed as a single step).

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/licences/licence-and-permit-types/licence-categories

Interesting, thanks for the link!

[dom14]

Interesting, thanks for the link!

Yeah, it's not a bad idea to have medium/heavy vehicle license as a backup if another GFC hits us. :D ;)
I'm pretty keen to materialize the idea as soon as the funds allow it. :)