Engine Block Pitted Spots - Solutions?!

[dom14]

Hey Guys,

Please have a look at the photos.
My RB30 block has couple of badly pitted spots between the water gallery & fire ring.
One in cylinder 1 and one in Cylinder 6.
Now, I know this block needs decking, but it is NO option for me due to time constraints.

So, is there a way for me to ensure the head gasket will hold these two places without leaking
combustion gas into the water gallery or vice versa for next twelve months or so??!!

I'm thinking below products applied thinly on to the head gasket or the pitted areas of the block as in the pictures.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HYLOMAR-SPRAY-GASKET-SPRAY-AND-THREAD-SEALANT-200ML-AEROSOL-HYL200/401123685768?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D20151029142714%26meid%3Dcedcd9f42d7d4e4e835 4141ec36c5ab6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D5%26 sd%3D302013578108&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VHT-COPPER-GASKET-CEMENT-SPRAY-VHTSP21-SUIT-HEAD-RUBBER-OIL-WATER-GASKETS-ETC-/121121173996?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

https://fortnine.ca/en/permatex-copper-spray-a-gasket-high-temp-sealant

I'm also open to the ideas of any metalic/epoxy sort of product where I can thinly apply onto the pitted area and sand/polish until flat. It is a desperate situation so I might need desperate and outside the box thinking and solutions.

Other than these couple of pitted areas the block surface is ok(afaics) & no warping of the surface either.

Any ideas, thoughts no matter how crazy they are will be good and appreciated.

Thanx
Dom

P.S. Below are the high resolution photos in google photos.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/I1sbDdLKfMtgU95q1

https://photos.app.goo.gl/8opGsNrmjC3MOd3K2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dVNusdVrOaAQLdEy2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/tEFLGa4gOljeU4Wj2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hmqt0O4edtDJ8eQG2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vXtSxReoxHTKFS0p2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rxy88VNtCcJ6QxID2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/tkAVo5C43RM8JjXV2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/KfaKvm7ampzS0Fm53

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wWBzDvuuxKxradb53

[mudnut]

What has that piston crunched up? Are there score marks in that bore?

[dom14]

What has that piston crunched up? Are there score marks in that bore?

The broken pieces of the carby base/inlet manifold directional cup thingy got sucked into the cylinder 6(obviously) and scored and nicked few places.
You should see the damage it did to the cylinder head combustion chamber surface. It damaged the edge near the fire ring as well. Check out below. It's something you gonna have to worry about soon as well. It is a common occurrence with carby RB30's.
In my case, it was most likely responsible for head gasket fire ring damage and the leakage between the water gallery & the combustion chamber.
Back in 2015 when I started hearing the rattle and found out it was the broken directional cup thingy after removing the manifold, I opted not to lift the head even though I didn't find all the broken pieces in side the manifold. Most blokes here advised me to lift the head and clean the combustion chambers but I gambled and didn't do it & paid the price.

[dom14]

What has that piston crunched up? Are there score marks in that bore?

Cylinder 6 walls are fine(afaict).

I advise everybody with an RB30 carby engine to remove the damn directional cup thing.
Whatever the reason Nissan engineers put it there ain't worth it 'cos of the damage it can do the pistons, head and the bore.

[PeeBee]

DOM, for me I think this needs machining, end of story. You say you 'have time constraints' but do you have the time to do the job twice, plus the cost if the 'back yard garage fix' fails? You could be in further pain than you are now with additional damage.

I come from a machining background and comments like, 'its flat etc' validated without accurate measurement equipment are risky. I would get the head wash ground and verified as 'flat' within whatever tolerances are acceptable, and then have the block mating surface machined as well, again to within established tolerances. Your machinist would need to assess it if the pitting exceeds the allowance on both items. Get them crack tested and be done with it, put it all back together and drive it.

If this was the only block and head in existence on some rare as rocking horse motor, and conventional - as above methods - were not avail or possible then i guess a 'bog it up' method might be all you have, or if you are stuck 500klm up the scrub and just want to get it home, then the 'instant metal 'style of repair is justified. I have seen it happen all too often that a band-aid is applied, then requires a bigger bandaid etc until finally the penny drops and you tear the equipment down and fix it - understand for a breakdown but perhaps not this repair - just my thoughts.

[dom14]

DOM, for me I think this needs machining, end of story. You say you 'have time constraints' but do you have the time to do the job twice, plus the cost if the 'back yard garage fix' fails? You could be in further pain than you are now with additional damage.

I come from a machining background and comments like, 'its flat etc' validated without accurate measurement equipment are risky. I would get the head wash ground and verified as 'flat' within whatever tolerances are acceptable, and then have the block mating surface machined as well, again to within established tolerances. Your machinist would need to assess it if the pitting exceeds the allowance on both items. Get them crack tested and be done with it, put it all back together and drive it.

If this was the only block and head in existence on some rare as rocking horse motor, and conventional - as above methods - were not avail or possible then i guess a 'bog it up' method might be all you have, or if you are stuck 500klm up the scrub and just want to get it home, then the 'instant metal 'style of repair is justified. I have seen it happen all too often that a band-aid is applied, then requires a bigger bandaid etc until finally the penny drops and you tear the equipment down and fix it - understand for a breakdown but perhaps not this repair - just my thoughts.

Thanx mate. I agree with all the above.
I'm beginning to get sick and tired of this thing after finding more and more things to fix and don't have the time for it right now.
If I can get it patched up at least for couple of months I can tackle it again later this year or early next year.
And, yes, I won't attempt any big trips with it.

I'm googling "Instant Metal" or other bogging up material.

Let me know if you know more about that stuff, brands, where to get, etc etc.

Thanx.

[PeeBee]

I am using the term instant metal as a generic term for any manner of synthetic metal repair products that claim to have long term repair properties. I carry a couple of different types with me including a very high temp one, will have to look it up for you but I don't know how you get a surface flat once you apply it, or at least flat enough for an application like your. Stay tuned, back shortly.

[PeeBee]

It's buried in the truck, will find tomorrow morning and let you know

[dom14]

It's buried in the truck, will find tomorrow morning and let you know

Thanx mate.

These are the products I found from googling.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Loctite-98853-EA-3463-Fixmaster-Metal-Magic-Steel-10-Minute-Repair-Epoxy-113g/172683630486?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D20151029142714%26meid%3D9f216437ef124442a3e 43ce9a85c2590%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26 sd%3D142393328495&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_HTML.htm?nodeid=8803924836353

https://www.blackwoods.com.au/part/05817798/fixmaster-sputty-loctite-39917-453gm

I know JB Weld has a metal repair putty stick with similar properties, but not sure whether it comes with a smooth finish. If the finish comes out porous, it won't do it.
I won't know until I try it for sure.

[PeeBee]

Thanx mate.

These are products I found from googling.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Loctite-98853-EA-3463-Fixmaster-Metal-Magic-Steel-10-Minute-Repair-Epoxy-113g/172683630486?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D20151029142714%26meid%3D9f216437ef124442a3e 43ce9a85c2590%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26 sd%3D142393328495&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Search eBay for j b weld high temp metal repair, couple of different sizes avail, I bought this for exhaust hole repairs or repairs in the block.

[dom14]

Search eBay for j b weld high temp metal repair, couple of different sizes avail, I bought this for exhaust hole repairs or repairs in the block.

Yeah, I think it's one of these.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/JB-Weld-ExtremeHeat-Temperature-Resistant-Metallic-Paste-37901-J-B-Weld-Extreme-/142272755599?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Jb-J-B-Weld-Automotive-SteelStik-Steel-Reinforced-Epoxy-Putty-Stick-JB8267/251948887701?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D19702c 311cfe44f3a3f796202b2fac40%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4 %26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D142272755599&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/JB-Weld-Automotive-Cold-Weld-Steel-Reinforced-Epoxy-Adhesive-8265-S-J-B-Weld/131627423474?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D19702c 311cfe44f3a3f796202b2fac40%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5 %26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D142272755599&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

[PeeBee]

Yes I carry the first and third one on your list, hope never need to use them!

[Tip12345]

look for JB weld at Jacar

[dom14]

Yes I carry the first and third one on your list, hope never need to use them!

They can be pretty handy with radiator repair jobs on the fly. :)

[BillsGU]

The problem with some of this goop is that it has a shelf life - especially when it lives in the back of a 4X4 constantly sitting in the hot sun. You cart it around for years and the day you really need it it's just a solid lump!

[dom14]

The problem with some of this goop is that it has a shelf life - especially when it lives in the back of a 4X4 constantly sitting in the hot sun. You cart it around for years and the day you really need it it's just a solid lump!

Yeah, that's what I've found with two of the damn gasket sealant tubes. I haven't used them for ages and when I needed it, it's gone hard. I had to cut it open to use some of the unhardned goo left in the middle. I think it's better to keep under the seats or something.

[mudnut]

I'm with PeeBee on this one, Dom. That pitting will only get worse if not machined off. Do the job once, do it right.

[PeeBee]

The problem with some of this goop is that it has a shelf life - especially when it lives in the back of a 4X4 constantly sitting in the hot sun. You cart it around for years and the day you really need it it's just a solid lump!

Good point, does require review and not simply forgotten about. I treat all this type of stuff like a food product, has a shelf life.

[dom14]

I'm with PeeBee on this one, Dom. That pitting will only get worse if not machined off. Do the job once, do it right.

Yeah, of course mate. I can't argue with that fact. I am just trying to get the bastard going for couple of months or so and then deal with the issue. It's pretty bad and stressful time for me with too much going on. I can even give a go at machining the block deck myself, but I'm not doing well atm.

[mudnut]

No good, mate. Yesterday, I had to palm the Falcon off to a mechanic to get the head gasket done, as there is no way I could bend to that low height for the length of time needed at the moment. Got a call to say the head had already been previously welded due to corrosion. I asked for his judgement call, and he says 98% OK. I said "Its only an EB Falcon. Whack the head back on and we'll deal with it in the next year or so." He has another EB in the yard and I plan to strip it for parts.

[dom14]

No good, mate. Yesterday, I had to palm the Falcon off to a mechanic to get the head gasket done, as there is no way I could bend to that low height for the length of time needed at the moment. Got a call to say the head had already been previously welded due to corrosion. I asked for his judgement call, and he says 98% OK. I said "Its only an EB Falcon. Whack the head back on and we'll deal with it in the next year or so." He has another EB in the yard and I plan to strip it for parts.

Yeah, I've got similar issues with chronic lower back issues. Didn't wanna go under the knife out of the fear of ending up
paraplegic. No amount of compensation money can give back what a person lose from not being able to walk. :(

Patrol is a bit more lower back friendly 'cos of the height of the bonnet.
I wouldn't wanna do a Falcon head in my current condition either.
I just have to let the Spring pass. It's the sneezing(hayfever) that does most of the damage to the
lower back by flaring it up in a flash.

Watch out for Falcon bottom ends. It it's done more than 300k, get the bottom end checked as well.
I used to have an EA Falcon that let go the bottom end the moment I put a recondition head.
Only lasted three months or so and started blowing oil out of the air cleaner.
I wouldn't take the chance if it has high mileage. Getting it honed and putting a new ring set
is well worth it. Or alternatively you can get a low km Falcon engine pretty cheaply these days.
Or you can just put a good used head with no cracks or so it won't put that much pressure on the piston rings.

Yeah, get another good EA or EB Falcon for spare parts. They are pretty cheap now.