Death wobble at 70km/h

[bartles82]

Hi Everyone,

I have a been a longtime follower of the forum and you have all helped me through the NAD's install, identifying pesky factory intercooler cracking being the cause of overboost issues and a whole raft of other mods....so thanks everyone for your posts!!

Now I'm going to apologise because I'm sure there has to be a thread on this topic but I'm not having any luck finding the answers.

I have a 2010 GUVII CRD Wagon around 35,000 I started getting the death wobbles around 70Km/h. Soon after (40,000) I installed a TJM suspension kit with 2" and the Foam Cell Shocks (rough as guts BTW) and steering dampener which didn't make any difference at all to the death wobble scenario. At about 45,000Km I put on a set of Mickey Thompson BAJA ATZ P3 (285/70 R17) which I love, but again no difference to the death wobble. Took it to a couple of local steering specialists with no luck or any idea of where to look next.

In the meantime I found that running high pressures 42psi has helped reduce it, but this isn't doing the tyres any justice and since pulling the pressure back to 36psi, its driving me insane!

I have started investigating the issue again and all i seem to get from the guys that supposedly know their stuff is:

1. Its your tyres....I don't believe this, it did it on the originals and the new ones without any noticeable change
2. Its a Patrol, they are renowned for it....I don't believe that all patrol owners drive around with this and accept it.

I have read a few posts about similar issues and shimming, but most people recommend against this.

So, to everyone out there, can anyone point me in the right direction to try and solve this problem?

[mudnut]

Easy stuff first: check that your wheel bearings and swivel bearings are not loose. Visually inspect all of the bushes in the front end. Get a crow bar or suitably hefty lever and test all of the bushes to see if there is movement. The panhard bushes, and steering damper bushes are some of the main culprits. I have a GQ, but all of the swivel bearing shims were removed before I got the vehicle. I believe that was to correct the death wobbles. Had the vehicle for 5 years without steering problems, so far.

[GQtdauto]

My problem on the maverick was the panhard Rod bush , get someone to lightly turn the steering wheel left to right and get under the front and see if anything is moving more than it's supposed to .

[Rossco]

Yeah i had death wobbles to not long ago and replaced panhard bushes, probably a good point to start. Also give all tie rod & drag link ends a grease to tighten that up a bit and check wheel bearings are right too.

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk

[JackCollo]

Mine is the same mine comes in to wobble around 75-90 km/h then gets almost unnoticeable at 100km/h. Had my steering damper replaced, had my wheels balanced numerous times had new tyres put on. I don’t know what it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cuppa]

Mine didn't get 'death wobbles', but it had started to get just a small degree of 'shimmy' at around 80kph & a feeling like the brake discs had warped during light (but not heavy) braking. I just lived with it for a while, but after getting my tyres rotated just prior to our current travels, the tyre place rebalanced all four on the car & those symptoms disappeared. Have done almost 10,000kms since then & still symptom free.

A previous wheel balance (when tyres were new) didn't stop the symptoms. I can only conclude that there are tyre balancers & tyre balancers! I'll be giving the last mob my business in future.

[mudnut]

Mine didn't get 'death wobbles', but it had started to get just a small degree of 'shimmy' at around 80kph & a feeling like the brake discs had warped during light (but not heavy) braking. I just lived with it for a while, but after getting my tyres rotated just prior to our current travels, the tyre place rebalanced all four on the car & those symptoms disappeared. Have done almost 10,000kms since then & still symptom free.

A previous wheel balance (when tyres were new) didn't stop the symptoms. I can only conclude that there are tyre balancers & tyre balancers! I'll be giving the last mob my business in future.

My local tyre place have much experience with 4WDs. Had a bad wobble when I got new tyres fitted. They just rotated the tyre 180 degrees on the rim then re-balanced it. I suspect other fitters would try and use a heap of weights to correct the problem.

[bazzaboy]

I've posted a number of time regarding the same issue. I've had it from new on the original tyres & mags. I've still got it with the 33" BFG muds on steel rims. It nearly got to the point of me selling it because I believe it shouldn't happen on a new 2014 vehicle. Anyway ..... I still have it and enjoy driving it, at times. After doing all the normal checks I've come to the conclusion that it has something to do with the tyres, but I could be wrong.
If I haven't been driving it for a week or so, I can get in it and drive it at any speed with no wobbles what so ever. However, if I get back into it that afternoon, the wobbles are back, and continue happening until "parked up" for a while again. The wheels have been checked for round and the tyres rotated & balanced many times, along with many wheel alignments. ?????????????????

[grumpyBUM]

Get front wheels balanced ON car... cheers

[bartles82]

Thanks for all the reply’s!

grumpyBUM literally had the tyres balanced again last week

bazzaboy, it’s funny you mention how yours comes and goes after being parked up. If I leave mine parked up for a week or so it is ten times worse and feels like it gets a little better after it “warms up” for want of a better description.

I’m very interested in mudnut comment re rotating the tyres on the rims, this makes some sense for this issue.

I’m going to check all the bushes and everything again and then give rotating tyres on the rims a go.

I just want this fixed, love jumping in my patrol but every time I hit 70km it just gives me the sh*ts!!!

[GQtdauto]

I've posted a number of time regarding the same issue. I've it from new on the original tyres & mags. I've still got it with the 33" BFG muds on steel rims. It nearly got to the point of me selling it because I believe it shouldn't happen on a new 2014 vehicle. Anyway ..... I still have it and enjoy driving it, at times. After doing all the normal checks I've come to the conclusion that it has something to do with the tyres, but I could be wrong.
If I haven't been driving it for a week or so, I can get in it and drive it at any speed with no wobbles what so ever. However, if I get back into it that afternoon, the wobbles are back, and continue happening until "parked up" for a while again. The wheels have been checked for round and the tyres rotated & balanced many times, along with many wheel alignments. ?????????????????

That's a real doozie bazz , heard of some strange shit happening to Patrols but that's just weird , if I had to guess I'd be thinking a bush or bearing that when it heats up moves, crushes or distorts in some way .
That's assuming you've tried different tyres .

[bazzaboy]

That's a real doozie bazz , heard of some strange shit happening to Patrols but that's just weird , if I had to guess I'd be thinking a bush or bearing that when it heats up moves, crushes or distorts in some way .
That's assuming you've tried different tyres .

All bushes & bearing have been checked multiple times and tyres rotated. It did it on another set of MUDS but only slightly on the original mags and standard tyres. I haven't tried a "on car balance" yet, but I will as it's the only thing I haven't done.

[grumpyBUM]

try it .... you might be surprised ... I was and an easy fix after spending much $$$$ on craaap that didnt need fixing
Cheers

[threedogs]

Get front wheels balanced ON car... cheers

Further to this get some one who knows how to balance 4WD tyres

[tuckertrucker]

I had the wobbles really bad in my GQ. Had tires rebalanced and refitted multiple times, had wheel bearings adjusted and replaced. My control arm bushed and tierod ends are getting toward the end of their lives but still not too bad.
In the end though I repacked the swivel hub bearings and removed a shim from all four bearing caps to increase the preload, and the wobbles have gone completely. No shudder or shimmy, and no wobble anywhere anymore. In MY case, it was definitely the swivel hub bearings. Might be worth looking into....

[mudski]

Write a check list of every steering, axle and suspension component under the Patrol and tick them off as you get them checked. The lower, Panhard rod bush is common to fail on the Patrol. If you look at one you will see why. A small rubber bush is all it is. They can wear out easily.
My Patrol had the wobbles. But it disappeared after doing a complete front end overhaul, of bearings and all bushes. Then stupid me thought it would be great to get some nice looking alloys to mount the AT's on. Then it came back, but not as bad. So I live with it.

I think its got a lot to do with the rims. Factory steelies are crap from new. Cheap sunnies wouldn't be any better. I have ROH Sunraysia steelies on my 35's (also were on my 33 AT's) and they have zero wobble. This, the lower panhard rod bush and incorrectly adjusted wheel bearings I think are the key factors. Maybe even tyres, the cheap ones on the market, who knows. Cheap large rubber can't be made that well can they?

[threedogs]

My woobble at 80ks was loose wheel bearings never had a problem since

[bazzaboy]

Write a check list of every steering, axle and suspension component under the Patrol and tick them off as you get them checked. The lower, Panhard rod bush is common to fail on the Patrol. If you look at one you will see why. A small rubber bush is all it is. They can wear out easily.
My Patrol had the wobbles. But it disappeared after doing a complete front end overhaul, of bearings and all bushes. Then stupid me thought it would be great to get some nice looking alloys to mount the AT's on. Then it came back, but not as bad. So I live with it.

I think its got a lot to do with the rims. Factory steelies are crap from new. Cheap sunnies wouldn't be any better. I have ROH Sunraysia steelies on my 35's (also were on my 33 AT's) and they have zero wobble. This, the lower panhard rod bush and incorrectly adjusted wheel bearings I think are the key factors. Maybe even tyres, the cheap ones on the market, who knows. Cheap large rubber can't be made that well can they?

I can see your logic. I also thought the aftermarket steelies I run may have something to do with it, but it dont explain my issue. I have 33" BFG Muds on King rims. I have had the rims checked out and found no issues. A while ago, my tyre shop identified a slightly "out of round tyre" which we thought was causing the wobble issue, but after swapping to the spare, it went away for a while but eventually came back.
I think my issue is tyres. Maybe just one or two of them. As I have a second vehicle as a daily drive, the Patrol is not used as much as before, and as I said earlier, if the Patrol is not driven for a week or so the problem seems to go away until the tyres are "warmed up". Maybe I have one or two "soft" compound tyres causing the wobbles when hot. It gets all too hard and I get a headache thinking about it.

[mudski]

My woobble at 80ks was loose wheel bearings never had a problem since

Yeah you just reminded me John. My wheel bearings kept coming lose. Found out the sub axles had a wear groove where the inner wheel bearing sits against. New stub axles and retentioned bearings and alls good.

[mudski]

I can see your logic. I also thought the aftermarket steelies I run may have something to do with it, but it dont explain my issue. I have 33" BFG Muds on King rims. I have had the rims checked out and found no issues. A while ago, my tyre shop identified a slightly "out of round tyre" which we thought was causing the wobble issue, but after swapping to the spare, it went away for a while but eventually came back.
I think my issue is tyres. Maybe just one or two of them. As I have a second vehicle as a daily drive, the Patrol is not used as much as before, and as I said earlier, if the Patrol is not driven for a week or so the problem seems to go away until the tyres are "warmed up". Maybe I have one or two "soft" compound tyres causing the wobbles when hot. It gets all too hard and I get a headache thinking about it.

Yeah I think this issue has varied causes from vehicle to vehicle.

[the evil twin]

Yeah I think this issue has varied causes from vehicle to vehicle.

Absolutely agree... the Patrol front end is so 'touchy' that over the years I have found that pretty much every single component can be the culprit.

IMHO the slight favourites (but only just) would be the Panhard Bushes and Wheel Bearings as they are the quickest to wear or go out of adjustment.
Yes, Swivel hub preload, tie rod ends etc will all cause the death wobble (my latest episode of death wobble was wheel bearings, prev one was swivel hubs) but those areas usually take a substantially longer time to crap out so the amount of K's on the car can be a hint on where to initially look.

What I do is start with the cheapest/easiest inspections or replacements and work thru the list.

[dads tractor]

I recommend tyre balancing beads instead of wieghts 1 they dont fall off and 2 they continuously rebalance to give optimum performance. On my BFG km2 285 70 16 s we used a bag and a half per tyre ftom Jac's due to the weight of the tyres and no wobbles .The front end of my 1999 ute is 60-79 k old running the Amarda extreme 2" lift with all new bushes and bearings ,I dont go bush to lay in the dirt working on cars hence the new front end when the E Harrop diff went in.