Towing a Patrol using a Patrol

[dom14]

Hey Guys,

I've been wondering about the methods that might be available to tow a vehicle with another vehicle,
without having access to any special gear(towing cable excluded).

Whether it is legal or not, is it possible to safely tow one vehicle using another one using the attachment similar to
a trailer tow bar as in below images/videos?

How legal is it here in Australia(generally) if it's properly secured like a trailer?

Any thoughts?

73245

https://i.ebayimg.com/13/!Bf1BwV!Bmk~$(KGrHqEH-C0EsK81lDBNBLCyL5Q7Mg~~_35.JPG?set_id=8800005007

http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/9081695+w660+re0/0705_4wd_09_z%2Bjeep_towbar_system%2Btowbar_hitch. jpg


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRv28achhf_A1rBrx9qqTw-LC3nH0VBitwgAVWIBMNtXfXH9j3o

73246


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTHJkEapek35aR3-tshbSMungOZxbVkF9z1Wy6xBYtHZf9SgA0


73247



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCiW5ke3N4w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL2ArSd8vFY

[GQtdauto]

See plenty nomads towing a small SUV behind their Winnebago and smaller motor homes so must be legal , not sure what modifications are required though .

[dom14]

See plenty nomads towing a small SUV behind their Winnebago and smaller motor homes so must be legal , not sure what modifications are required though .

Yeah, I thought it should be legal, provided it is properly secured.
I would imagine it would attract the stare of a cop or two.

I guess there might be some weight restrictions for the one being towed comparing to the towing vehicle.

I think attaching the towing gear to the back of the vehicle being towed is better than attaching to the front.

What do you think?!

[PeeBee]

One question is whether the vehicle is occupied or not. If its occupied, then presumably there is someone in it who can steer 'assist' and also brake, but if not, the front wheels would have to be locked somehow and i don't know if the simple steering lock would suffice, certainly tow trucks rope the steering wheel, plus if the vehicle is heavier than the GCM, gross combined mass, plus if the towed vehicle exceeds the braked/unbraked parameters similar to a trailer. Few 'maybe items', I don't really know. I carry a length of water pipe with load rated 'eyes' just for a fixed hard tow situation, and know it makes the towing easier than having a jerky strap set-up, but again, unsure if its legal or not.

[the evil twin]

The towing apparatus must comply to A.S. and the towing vehicle equipped for electronic or other independant control of the towed vehicle brakes IE over-rider braking is not permitted.
In addition, the vehicle under tow must also be fitted with a breakaway system to apply the brakes if it becomes disconnected.

[the evil twin]

snip... I carry a length of water pipe with load rated 'eyes' just for a fixed hard tow situation, and know it makes the towing easier than having a jerky strap set-up, but again, unsure if its legal or not.

It is illegal but I totally agree that it makes towing easier.
Finding suitable attachment points on the disabled vehicle can be an issue unless like me the vehicle has a 2 inch Reece point in the centre of the bullbar or somesuch other setup

[dom14]

The towing apparatus must comply to A.S. and the towing vehicle equipped for electronic or other independant control of the towed vehicle brakes IE over-rider braking is not permitted.
In addition, [the vehicle under tow must also be fitted with a breakaway system to apply the brakes if it becomes disconnected.

I didn't quite understand that bit.

[MB]

I must be spaz, I did comprehendy Domstir :-)

[dom14]

I must be spaz, I did comprehendy Domstir :-)

I do now Sir. :D
I was bit low on glucose after putting myself on green vegie only diet to lose the extra ten kilos I put over the winter. :D
Until my liver adapts to the low glucose level in the blood and start breakdown the fats in my fat arse, I'll be bit retarded, I'm afraid. ;)
The reason I got it right now is 'cos I had couple of teaspoons of peanut butter half hour ago. :D

[dom14]

The towing apparatus must comply to A.S. and the towing vehicle equipped for electronic or other independant control of the towed vehicle brakes IE over-rider braking is not permitted.
In addition, the vehicle under tow must also be fitted with a breakaway system to apply the brakes if it becomes disconnected.

Does that mean the trailers also legally suppose to have a system to automatically apply brakes if the trailer breaks away?

[firm351]

Yep. If the trailers over 2T.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[the evil twin]

Does that mean the trailers also legally suppose to have a system to automatically apply brakes if the trailer breaks away?

Yep... wot Firm said X2 (I included your post as a quote 'cause it was on the prev page)

All Vans, Trailers etc etc over 2,000 Kg gross will have a dedicated onboard battery for eleccy brakes or an onboard resovoir for air or an eleccy hyd pump if hydraulic and appropriate controllers so if the trailer disconnects the brakes are applied.

[dom14]

Yep... wot Firm said X2 (I included your post as a quote 'cause it was on the prev page)

All Vans, Trailers etc etc over 2,000 Kg gross will have a dedicated onboard battery for eleccy brakes or an onboard resovoir for air or an eleccy hyd pump if hydraulic and appropriate controllers so if the trailer disconnects the brakes are applied.

Yeah, that law makes sense considering the weight of a vehicle.
I guess the only way to tow a Patrol with a Patrol is to have a 'driver' in the towed vehicle.
That fits in with my scenario anyway 'cos only time I would consider it is in the outback where professional
towing would cost more than the vehicles value. :)

[the evil twin]

Yeah, that law makes sense considering the weight of a vehicle.
I guess the only way to tow a Patrol with a Patrol is to have a 'driver' in the towed vehicle.
That fits in with my scenario anyway 'cos only time I would consider it is in the outback where professional
towing would cost more than the vehicles value. :)

Ahhh, Ok, I am with ya now.

That is where the solid bar arrangement Pee Bee mentions or an A frame off the recovery points or whatever might be handy.

Keep in mind that if the engine is disabled on the towed vehicle it won't have power steering or braking so you would need Arnie in its driver seat.
Under tow with a rope or strap the action of the towed vehicle is isolated to a great degree from the tug.
With a mechanical attachment the towed vehicle will be shunting the tug downhill or under deceleration and also trying to jack knife it at every turn

[BillsGU]

You can buy a complete "A" frame set with all the attachments, braking set up and rear light harness from the larger caravan and motor home dealers. They are not cheap - but they comply to AS and will work first time.

[the evil twin]

You can buy a complete "A" frame set with all the attachments, braking set up and rear light harness from the larger caravan and motor home dealers. They are not cheap - but they comply to AS and will work first time.

True... esp the not cheap part... and the vehicle that will be under tow needs some modifications as well (unless you are only off roading of course).

If you go unbraked the Tug must be over 3 times the tare of the vehicle being flat towed which is why some nomads opt for a trailer rather than an A frame setup unless you opt for a heap of extra bucks to enable to the vehicle under tow braking
http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/licensing/LBU_VS_B_AFrameTowing.pdf

[BillsGU]

True... esp the not cheap part... and the vehicle that will be under tow needs some modifications as well (unless you are only off roading of course).

If you go unbraked the Tug must be over 3 times the tare of the vehicle being flat towed which is why some nomads opt for a trailer rather than an A frame setup unless you opt for a heap of extra bucks to enable to the vehicle under tow braking
http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/licensing/LBU_VS_B_AFrameTowing.pdf

Yep - that's one of the reasons you see so many Suzuki Jimmys being towed behind motor homes. Another problem with the A frames (so one user told me), there is no way you can reverse. If you get stuck somewhere, you have to disconnect and drive the car out separately.

[Sprock]

When towing with an A frame as pictured you don't lock the steering - it just follows the vehicle towing it , the wheels steer themselves as the vehicle starts to turn , hard to believe unless you've seen it 1st hand - I didn't believe it would work either until The 1st time a tow truck hooked my semi up & left the steer wheels on the ground I thought he'd lost the plot but it works . Same with cars behind motor homes etc .

[BillsGU]

When towing with an A frame as pictured you don't lock the steering - it just follows the vehicle towing it , the wheels steer themselves as the vehicle starts to turn , hard to believe unless you've seen it 1st hand - I didn't believe it would work either until The 1st time a tow truck hooked my semi up & left the steer wheels on the ground I thought he'd lost the plot but it works . Same with cars behind motor homes etc .

That's right. With the Suzuki's they have to disable the ignition lock or leave the key in it. I suppose the castor of the front wheels helps them follow the towing vehicle.

[dom14]

Yep - that's one of the reasons you see so many Suzuki Jimmys being towed behind motor homes. Another problem with the A frames (so one user told me), there is no way you can reverse. If you get stuck somewhere, you have to disconnect and drive the car out separately.

If it is a towball kinda setup that allows the vehicle under tow to turn freely then it would be ok I imagine.

I think Pee Bee's idea of using a steel pipe is the simplest but this means we still need to be prepared welding necessary bits
to the each end of the pipe, so it can be attached to the tow bar and the front tow point on the bullbar or any other tow point just under the front of the vehicle. Am I right?

If I get a piece of steel pipe or a bar and modify each ends that should do it?

[the evil twin]

If I get a piece of steel pipe or a bar and modify each ends that should do it?

I would go A frame off the disabled vehicle recovery points but if you go single bar maybe 2 inch square section.
Drill one end for a Reese Pin and weld a plate on the other for a Trailer Hitch attachment point
I would go for a hitch that has a Universal Joint style like McHitch or whomever

Using a single bar the disabled vehicle will need a damn solid attachment point in the centreline
Not many people have a Hitch Receiver on their front bar.
I happen have that on mine as it is where my Winch and Cradle attach if I am winching from the front or a tongue and tow ball for pushing my Van around (my winch and cradle are normally attached to a 2 inch receiver on the back cross member of the chassis)

[PeeBee]

I have a piece of 32mm water pipe, with 16mm flat plate ends and tapped holes to suit the load rated lifting eyes, I think they are tapped M16 from memory. The towing bar is 2.5m long. I went this way for a couple of reasons, based on previous experience with an A frame device. The eyebolts are fitted with loctite and also have a couple of small weld tacks to stop the eyelet unwinding.

1) the A frame is very short, so you have very limited room for turning.
2) Also the vehicle behind has absolutely zero forward vision.
3)The A frame is more suited for your vehicle to be towed rather than you towing with it, unless you have a tow hitch as @ET mentions. My A frame I had before had two mounts on the bullbar and a standard 50mm towball hitch to mate with a tow vehicle's towball. This updated design allows me to tow or be hard towed, so an improvement. An A frame device might be worthwhile perhaps if all vehicles in a group convoy perhaps were fitted with identical connections front and rear to help recovery.
4) I found that hard towing on 4wd tracks presents all sorts of twisting and elevation differences between the 2 vehicles, so a bit of length between the vehicles seems to lessen the severity. Using this method is the last resort in my view but you may as well optimise the situation if you can if snatch straps don't suit.
5) negotiating tight=ish tracks requires 'swing room for both vehicles', so again a bit of length helps - mind you if the length is too long it works against you also.
6) don't forget the connections as I simply use rated shackles and these work well in the lifting eye and the vehicle mount points provided they are actual holes and not simply hooks. There is enough free rotation room for the system to work from what I have found.
7) the RHS design is fine but bear in mind the dead weight. Round bar seemed the right move for me and I have used it 3 times with success, 2 out of the bush and once on the bitumen.

I dragged a Range Rover out of Wonnangatta Valley using this system up Zeka Spur track before it was re-aligned. It wasn't easy, there were times it got tight, but a snatch strap just wasn't working because of the stop start lack of momentum going on.(We started with the strap then switched over to the drawbar) The RR had a blown rear diff and was basically a dead weight. After we got to level ground the RR was unhitched and it clanked its way home to Melb under its own steam. Without this single draw bar we would still be down there I reckon.

Hope this adds some further info in the discussion .

[dom14]

I have a piece of 32mm water pipe, with 16mm flat plate ends and tapped holes to suit the load rated lifting eyes, I think they are tapped M16 from memory. The towing bar is 2.5m long. I went this way for a couple of reasons, based on previous experience with an A frame device. The eyebolts are fitted with loctite and also have a couple of small weld tacks to stop the eyelet unwinding.

1) the A frame is very short, so you have very limited room for turning.
2) Also the vehicle behind has absolutely zero forward vision.
3)The A frame is more suited for your vehicle to be towed rather than you towing with it, unless you have a tow hitch as @ET mentions. My A frame I had before had two mounts on the bullbar and a standard 50mm towball hitch to mate with a tow vehicle's towball. This updated design allows me to tow or be hard towed, so an improvement. An A frame device might be worthwhile perhaps if all vehicles in a group convoy perhaps were fitted with identical connections front and rear to help recovery.
4) I found that hard towing on 4wd tracks presents all sorts of twisting and elevation differences between the 2 vehicles, so a bit of length between the vehicles seems to lessen the severity. Using this method is the last resort in my view but you may as well optimise the situation if you can if snatch straps don't suit.
5) negotiating tight=ish tracks requires 'swing room for both vehicles', so again a bit of length helps - mind you if the length is too long it works against you also.
6) don't forget the connections as I simply use rated shackles and these work well in the lifting eye and the vehicle mount points provided they are actual holes and not simply hooks. There is enough free rotation room for the system to work from what I have found.
7) the RHS design is fine but bear in mind the dead weight. Round bar seemed the right move for me and I have used it 3 times with success, 2 out of the bush and once on the bitumen.

I dragged a Range Rover out of Wonnangatta Valley using this system up Zeka Spur track before it was re-aligned. It wasn't easy, there were times it got tight, but a snatch strap just wasn't working because of the stop start lack of momentum going on.(We started with the strap then switched over to the drawbar) The RR had a blown rear diff and was basically a dead weight. After we got to level ground the RR was unhitched and it clanked its way home to Melb under its own steam. Without this single draw bar we would still be down there I reckon.

Hope this adds some further info in the discussion .

Thanx Phil, very useful indeed.

I think the customized straight bar is more practical to carry than the A frame.
I think, creating a double hinge on each ends of the bar to allow the rugged terrain & vehicle height mismatch issues
would be a good idea. I think 2-2.5m length is as far as we can go 'cos only practical spot to carry a bar that long is
the roof rack.
And yeah, you're spot on that these ideas most suitable for getting mine towed as I can modify the front tow point on the towbar
to suit it.

Any chance you can post a photo of your makeshift 'tow bar'. Pictures of each end would be great, when you get a chance.

Cheers

[dom14]

I think, creating a double hinge on each ends of the bar to allow the rugged terrain & vehicle height mismatch issues
would be a good idea.


I'm thinking, welding a uni joint on each side that I can scavenge from an old driveshaft might be a good idea?

[PeeBee]

I don't think so DOM. A universal joint is not designed to take tensile load, only rotational. The 'pins' at each bearing points are only really needles. I will take some photos in the morning and post.

[dom14]

I don't think so DOM. A universal joint is not designed to take tensile load, only rotational. The 'pins' at each bearing points are only really needles. I will take some photos in the morning and post.

Yes, you're right on that. It would be considerably weaker on pulling action, perhaps break if stressed enough. Bad idea on my part. :D

Probably a simple bolt hinge fabricated by cutting a piece on the end of the pipe and joining using a bolt put through a drilled hole will do.

[the evil twin]

Actually there are fully rated towing systems that use Universals.

If you use a single bar and "hinge" both ends in the horizontal plane be very careful... you will no longer have horizontal stability.
If you use twin unis and the towing vehicle slows the unis will allow the disabled vehicle to skew left or right with no resistance and plow into the tow which is why an A frame principle (full or short with an extended draw) or solid point at the disabled vehicle is used for unmanned apps.

Anyway, back to universal joints in towing applications...
Here is a link to the Mchitch site.
I have both of the hitches, the vertical drop on pin style and the horizontal pin auto coupler.
The Auto coupler is a twist on the truck style ringfeeder and is absolutely the best hitch I have ever used, on road or off.
My off road van is two tonnes and I travel alone and using it is a breeze... much, much better than a Treg

They do A.S rated universal joint couplers to 6 ton

http://www.mchitch.com.au/

[PeeBee]

There you go, I stand corrected. I do recall seeing these but was thinking more along the lines of the little uni's DOM was suggesting to use. I suspect these ones might have higher tensile capacity?

[PeeBee]

Here is the set-up I use and its simple, robust and hasn't failed yet.7329373294732957329673297

[the evil twin]

Luv the ring billet adapter, Pee Bee... good thinking

[BillsGU]

There you go, I stand corrected. I do recall seeing these but was thinking more along the lines of the little uni's DOM was suggesting to use. I suspect these ones might have higher tensile capacity?

Nope. The McHitch I have is a standard Landcruiser universal joint. They did that on purpose so parts are readily available if required.

[the evil twin]

Nope. The McHitch I have is a standard Landcruiser universal joint. They did that on purpose so parts are readily available if required.

Apols in advance for the hijack but... what do you think of the Mchitch?
As I said earlier I absolutely love my Autocoupler to bits.
I find the drop on version is OK (bit easier than Treg etc to line up) but the Auto jobby gets 10/10 from me

[dom14]

Here is the set-up I use and its simple, robust and hasn't failed yet.73293

Thanx Phil. Pretty good setup. Simple and effective.
With D shackles it can be used to tow a vehicles or get towed.

[dom14]

Actually there are fully rated towing systems that use Universals.

If you use a single bar and "hinge" both ends in the horizontal plane be very careful... you will no longer have horizontal stability.
If you use twin unis and the towing vehicle slows the unis will allow the disabled vehicle to skew left or right with no resistance and plow into the tow which is why an A frame principle (full or short with an extended draw) or solid point at the disabled vehicle is used for unmanned apps.
[/url]

Thanx ET. That didn't cross my mind immediately. Stupid me. :icon_bonk:Thanx for the tip.

The reason I thought about including a horizontal hinge is to help when turning 90 degree turns.

But, it is NOT necessary at all, is it??!!

I mean there are semitrailers out there with four wheels that turns with the truck without any big issues.
The outer wheels should simply turn faster to allow 'cos both front and back wheels are "technically" independent.
So, the "towing bar'(PeeBee's idea) can be fixed to the vehicle under tow without needing any horizontal hinge at all.

Am I right ET?

I am getting it now why an A frame is safer on the highways.
I can fabricate an A frame with a tow hitch that can be assemble and dismantled easily, but dunno about
the legality of it though.

BTW, I am not contemplating on an unmanned tow on the vehicle under tow, after you explained the legality of needing automatic
breakaway braking systems, and of course in my scenario with a recovery, there always will be bloke behind the driving seat of the vehicle under tow, (unless there are compelling circumstances not to be that way). So, as long as there is a guy on the vehicle under tow, I reckon I'll have the legal issues somewhat covered. :)

[Touses]

Apols in advance for the hijack but... what do you think of the Mchitch?
As I said earlier I absolutely love my Autocoupler to bits.
I find the drop on version is OK (bit easier than Treg etc to line up) but the Auto jobby gets 10/10 from me

Got one fitted to the little camper trailer, drop on version.Absolute ducks guts, excretes all over the standard ball hitch.
Giving serious thought to banging the auto coupler on, shorty gives terrible reversing instuctions.

[BillsGU]

Apols in advance for the hijack but... what do you think of the Mchitch?
As I said earlier I absolutely love my Autocoupler to bits.
I find the drop on version is OK (bit easier than Treg etc to line up) but the Auto jobby gets 10/10 from me

I have had mine (auto coupler) for a while now and I think it is the best set up I have had. I have a Tregg on an off road camper - but it was light enough to move around when coupling up. No chance of that on a 2.5T off roader. I did weld the orientation plate to my draw bar as I could not hold it tight enough with just the nut. I also bought the sliders for the WDH. They are simple but very clever and work very well - it's no use having heaps of articulation and then have the chains holding you back.

[FNqGu04]

Hi Guys
The towing setup in Doms first photo is called a "Hitch and go". They have a cable that passes through the firewall of the towed vehicle
and attaches to the brake pedal , with an override coupling .So that when the towing vehicle brakes it activates the towed vehicles brakes .
They also have all the signal lights "brake ,tail and indicators wired into a trailer plug so all lights are operational when being towed .
Craig

[dom14]

Hi Guys
The towing setup in Doms first photo is called a "Hitch and go". They have a cable that passes through the firewall of the towed vehicle
and attaches to the brake pedal , with an override coupling .So that when the towing vehicle brakes it activates the towed vehicles brakes .
They also have all the signal lights "brake ,tail and indicators wired into a trailer plug so all lights are operational when being towed .
Craig

Thanx mate.

That just reminded me that having a 'driver' in the vehicle under tow doesn't probably mean it is legal, 'cos the indicators, brake lights etc also need to be activated in synchronization with the towing vehicle. So, it kinda makes sense to have a trailer socket wired up to the front of the vehicle(perhaps usng an extension from the rear trailer socket). Not that hard to do. All we need is a trailer wire harness & couple of female+male sockets/plugs.
However, creating the automatic braking apparatus would be a bit of challenge without a 'blueprint' of how to go about it, but worth a try. :)

[Aquarian51]

Hi ET
Where did you get the 2 inch Reese point? Off the shelf or custom made. I'm thinking about getting one fitted on my DX ute.
cheers
Len

[the evil twin]

Hi ET
Where did you get the 2 inch Reese point? Off the shelf or custom made. I'm thinking about getting one fitted on my DX ute.
cheers
Len

I have 3 'Reese points' or 2 inch receivers on my truck;
- the Tow Bar obviously,
- a custom jobbie made by XLR8 in Perth (that bolts to the rear chassis cross member where the factory recovery point would be) and takes my Winch Cradle
- a receiver as part of my custom Bull Bar (also made by XLR8) which will take a standard tongue or my Winch Cradle

The winch lives on the back custom receiver so it sits under the tray but above the standard tow bar so it doesn't interfere with any towing connections.
My spare doesn't live under the tray as it won't fit due to a long range main tank.

[Aquarian51]

Thanks ET. I didn't make it clear it is for the front of my DX to take a standard tongue or winch cradle. I will check out XLR8 when next in Perth.

[bazzaboy]

FYI ....
Many, many years ago in NSW it was legal to tow a vehicle ( with transit insurance ) with a "straight bar". A standard tow coupling one end with safety chains, a solid or heavy walled tube, & chains the other end, with a driver inside, for a short distance at low speed to a repair facility. I part owned a panel shop at the time and we used to tow them from our storage facility to the shop. About 2klms away. The towed vehicle also had to have a sign saying "under tow", a working hand brake and brake lights, or portable ones fitted. Times have long changed. Illegal now because of insurance requirements.

[dom14]

FYI ....
Many, many years ago in NSW it was legal to tow a vehicle ( with transit insurance ) with a "straight bar". A standard tow coupling one end with safety chains, a solid or heavy walled tube, & chains the other end, with a driver inside, for a short distance at low speed to a repair facility. I part owned a panel shop at the time and we used to tow them from our storage facility to the shop. About 2klms away. The towed vehicle also had to have a sign saying "under tow", a working hand brake and brake lights, or portable ones fitted. Times have long changed. Illegal now because of insurance requirements.

But, it is legal in NSW with the "right" gear like below, am I right?

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73245&d=1506050614

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?40948-Towing-a-Patrol-using-a-Patrol

[the evil twin]

Bazzaboy is talking straight bars and chains as the attachment device.
I don't know anywhere that config is legal these days.

Correctly set up A frames and assoc variations or manuf are 'generally' OK as they use either 3 points or rigid attachment IE not chains as a primary attachment.
I say generally as some states have weird local variations to their regs still but AFAIK Hitch N Go etc etc are OK but must be professionally installed and certified (at least in some states

[Avo]

the original posts asks legal or not so i suppose you could tow it with a shoe lace really..

[bazzaboy]

But, it is legal in NSW with the "right" gear like below, am I right?

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73245&d=1506050614

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?40948-Towing-a-Patrol-using-a-Patrol

I'm confident in saying that the method I described is no longer legal anywhere in OZ today. I also could be wrong, but I was under the impression that all the tow hitch configurations used behind motorhomes/RV's, all require welded or bolted attachment points on the vehicle being towed.

[dom14]

Bazzaboy is talking straight bars and chains as the attachment device.
I don't know anywhere that config is legal these days.

Correctly set up A frames and assoc variations or manuf are 'generally' OK as they use either 3 points or rigid attachment IE not chains as a primary attachment.
I say generally as some states have weird local variations to their regs still but AFAIK Hitch N Go etc etc are OK but must be professionally installed and certified (at least in some states

And unless there is and automatic brake setup & indicator/brake lights etc via the trailer socket/plug there has to be a driver in the
vehicle under tow to apply brake/indicators etc.

Am I right?

[dom14]

the original posts asks legal or not so i suppose you could tow it with a shoe lace really..

Yeah, in the OP I wasn't paying much attention to legality of it, but rather the technical possibility of it.

I am interested in laws each state has enacted with regards to towing a vehicle using a vehicle above techniques though.

So far, as far as I understand, there has to be a driver in the vehicle under tow unless there is setup to apply brakes and indicators etc in sync with the towing vehicle.

[the evil twin]

And unless there is and automatic brake setup & indicator/brake lights etc via the trailer socket/plug there has to be a driver in the
vehicle under tow to apply brake/indicators etc.

Am I right?

You MUST have 'auto brake setup' etc so it isn't an 'unless' and you cannot have anyone in the vehicle under tow.

[dom14]

You MUST have 'auto brake setup' etc so it isn't an 'unless' and you cannot have anyone in the vehicle under tow.

No kidding!!! That's the law all around the country??!!

[Avo]

No kidding!!! That's the law all around the country??!!

you asked so don't be so rude.....

[dom14]

you asked so don't be so rude.....

Seriously, I didn't know that. So far from what I'v gathered from the conversations in this thread I thought having somebody in the driver seat of the vehicle under tow is not only legal but a requirement when there's no automatic way to signal towing vehicles indicators. Now, I'm learning that is not the case. This means towing as I indicated would end up as illegal unless the "automatic brake setup" is wired up/set up via the trailer plug or something. Having nobody in the vehicle under tow is also new news to me.

[tuckertrucker]

Interesting reading this thread. In NZ towing another vehicle is very legal provided you meet certain requirements.
Ie, if it is a 'non mechanical linkage' (rope, chain, strap etc) then the towed vehicle must have someone in it to operate brakes steering lights etc.
if it is a 'mechanical linkage' that can pivot on the towed vehicle side then, as above it must have an occupant in it.
But if the mechanical linkage is fixed on the tow vehicle and can only hinge vertically (ie the generic A frame), then the only requirement is that the vehicle has auto brakes if its detaches (over 2.5tonne for any towed vehicle) and has a light bar on it that has brakes and indicators. So most people just bolt a couple of brake and indicators to a 2x4, tie it to the back of the towed car somehow and plug it into the tow vehicles trailer light socket.

If the A frame is fixed to the towed vehicle, then the vehicle can't turn on it own. The vehicle centre line and the tow hitch centre line will always remain in-line and the front wheels will turn on their own to accomodate this. In NZ, so long as the car youre towing is under 2.5tonne and has a warrant of fitness and is registered, then its legal to tow. Over 2.5 tonne and we have to have autolock brakes.

So no towing the long wheel base safaris, but the shortys (GVM 2400kg) are allowed.

[dom14]

Interesting reading this thread. In NZ towing another vehicle is very legal provided you meet certain requirements.
Ie, if it is a 'non mechanical linkage' (rope, chain, strap etc) then the towed vehicle must have someone in it to operate brakes steering lights etc.
if it is a 'mechanical linkage' that can pivot on the towed vehicle side then, as above it must have an occupant in it.
But if the mechanical linkage is fixed on the tow vehicle and can only hinge vertically (ie the generic A frame), then the only requirement is that the vehicle has auto brakes if its detaches (over 2.5tonne for any towed vehicle) and has a light bar on it that has brakes and indicators. So most people just bolt a couple of brake and indicators to a 2x4, tie it to the back of the towed car somehow and plug it into the tow vehicles trailer light socket.

If the A frame is fixed to the towed vehicle, then the vehicle can't turn on it own. The vehicle centre line and the tow hitch centre line will always remain in-line and the front wheels will turn on their own to accomodate this. In NZ, so long as the car youre towing is under 2.5tonne and has a warrant of fitness and is registered, then its legal to tow. Over 2.5 tonne and we have to have autolock brakes.

So no towing the long wheel base safaris, but the shortys (GVM 2400kg) are allowed.

Some of the laws here in Oz are just tax collection in disguise. :), but I guess it happens everywhere more or less.
Unlike in New Zealand, here on Oz, we have slightly different rules and regulations from state to state. It can end up in 'funny' situations sometime, but that's the price have to pay for the country's being geographically big. It's far far lot 'funnier' in America I think. They have some five hundred states and trillion different laws and interpretations for the same situation. ;) :D