Petrol v LPG

[Bigrig]

Now here's a turn for the cards! I'm thinking of converting my rig back to petrol only in these days of ever increasing petrol prices!!

Why?? Because I've dragged as much as I can out of the LPG in terms of economy and power and it's always a compromise between having the two as to how the truck is tuned. Thinking about the Love Day trip next year, and other trips I've done to date, LPG is somewhat inaccessible at times and carrying a 1.5 tonne trailer (fully laden) I'm looking at getting about 25 litres per hundred at the very best out of LPG - and that's on the black stuff at 100kph with the tyres at 40psi. This means that my 90 litre tank will get me about 360klms on a good run. I only have a 72 litre petrol tank, and on the same run would be looking at about 19-20 litres per hundred on petrol - meaning I've got about 350klms there and overall about 700klms total. Throw into the mix reduced tyre pressure for gravel/dirt roads (even at 30-32 psi, this will make a big difference), hills, reduced speeds and more braking and acceleration due to road conditions, etc and I could probably say goodbye to my total available fuel after about 550-600 klms ... that means carrying Jerry cans ...

On top of that, the LPG tank is getting flogged every time I head out due to it's shape and how low it sits - a petrol main would tuck up much neater I believe and give me more carrying capacity and mileage.

Sooooo ... my thinking, as per the other thread I just started, is to throw a larger main in the back end and turn the current petrol tank into a sub - that would give me 210+ litres of fuel and using the numbers above, about 1000 klms of good road distance on board (at least 700 + in poor conditions).

It's only holidays where the true cost of petrol smashes me in the back pocket, but that's no different to a million other Australians, but in working it out, it solves those problems above and would literally cost me about $20 per week (at current fuel prices) extra to have petrol only as I use petrol just as often as LPG.

So who can talk me out of it and why?? LOL!!! I think I've sorted it on my head, but would love to hear others thoughts on it.

Thanks again in advance!!

[growler2058]

Now here's a turn for the cards! I'm thinking of converting my rig back to petrol only in these days of ever increasing petrol prices!!

Why?? Because I've dragged as much as I can out of the LPG in terms of economy and power and it's always a compromise between having the two as to how the truck is tuned. Thinking about the Love Day trip next year, and other trips I've done to date, LPG is somewhat inaccessible at times and carrying a 1.5 tonne trailer (fully laden) I'm looking at getting about 25 litres per hundred at the very best out of LPG - and that's on the black stuff at 100kph with the tyres at 40psi. This means that my 90 litre tank will get me about 360klms on a good run. I only have a 72 litre petrol tank, and on the same run would be looking at about 19-20 litres per hundred on petrol - meaning I've got about 350klms there and overall about 700klms total. Throw into the mix reduced tyre pressure for gravel/dirt roads (even at 30-32 psi, this will make a big difference), hills, reduced speeds and more braking and acceleration due to road conditions, etc and I could probably say goodbye to my total available fuel after about 550-600 klms ... that means carrying Jerry cans ...

On top of that, the LPG tank is getting flogged every time I head out due to it's shape and how low it sits - a petrol main would tuck up much neater I believe and give me more carrying capacity and mileage.

Sooooo ... my thinking, as per the other thread I just started, is to throw a larger main in the back end and turn the current petrol tank into a sub - that would give me 210+ litres of fuel and using the numbers above, about 1000 klms of good road distance on board (at least 700 + in poor conditions).

It's only holidays where the true cost of petrol smashes me in the back pocket, but that's no different to a million other Australians, but in working it out, it solves those problems above and would literally cost me about $20 per week (at current fuel prices) extra to have petrol only as I use petrol just as often as LPG.

So who can talk me out of it and why?? LOL!!! I think I've sorted it on my head, but would love to hear others thoughts on it.

Thanks again in advance!!

AHHHH convert to td42t all your probs solved ya can thank me later if ya want

[Bigrig]

AHHHH convert to td42t all your probs solved ya can thank me later if ya want

That's still an option also - see my dilemma?? lol

But already planning the rebuild with a super charger thrown into the mix on the current engine!! Decisions, decisions ...

[growler2058]

That's still an option also - see my dilemma?? lol

But already planning the rebuild with a super charger thrown into the mix on the current engine!! Decisions, decisions ...

Mate I hear ya i spend thousands in my head nearly every night thinkin of power up options.........

[Bigrig]

Mate I hear ya i spend thousands in my head nearly every night thinkin of power up options.........

Yep - I just figure if I'm going to outlay the hard earned then I only want to do it once, and do it right ... it's going to cost a motsa as it is, so I need to get it straight in my head ... I know I want more power, and am pretty comfortable with the rebuild path with a super charger as opposed to a V8 etc as I was thinking, but the LPG has got me doing my head in. We will be traveling a range of areas on that trip that will have limited fuel and certainly no LPG, and the stupid thing is, I found the same problem even going up to Rocky a few weeks back - half the servos don't have LPG and towing the trailer, I'm looking at fuel stops every few hours (which is fine for a break, but generally the fuel break doesn't coincide with a station that sells LPG).

Grrrrrrrr - I'm flipping back and forth every time I think about it ....

[TuffTD42]

The way LPG prices are going & that it takes more LPG than fuel to cover the same distance I'd be going petrol only. The main depot I load at has 2 fork lifts & they have converted them from LPG to straight petrol & it is saving them $10,000 a year in running costs.

[growler2058]

Yep - I just figure if I'm going to outlay the hard earned then I only want to do it once, and do it right ... it's going to cost a motsa as it is, so I need to get it straight in my head ... I know I want more power, and am pretty comfortable with the rebuild path with a super charger as opposed to a V8 etc as I was thinking, but the LPG has got me doing my head in. We will be traveling a range of areas on that trip that will have limited fuel and certainly no LPG, and the stupid thing is, I found the same problem even going up to Rocky a few weeks back - half the servos don't have LPG and towing the trailer, I'm looking at fuel stops every few hours (which is fine for a break, but generally the fuel break doesn't coincide with a station that sells LPG).

Grrrrrrrr - I'm flipping back and forth every time I think about it ....

MMMM cause ya can get more power from gas if the vehicle is purely gas devoted ie a gas research system but if ya cant get gas whats the point and dunno about patrols but a mate had twin gas tanks put on his 100 series and has pretty much defeated the purpose of his 3" lift. Hopefully it doesnt happen but if my td42 sh1ts itself i've been thinkin diesel v8 like the GM hummer 8's.

[Bigrig]

The way LPG prices are going & that it takes more LPG than fuel to cover the same distance I'd be going petrol only. The main depot I load at has 2 fork lifts & they have converted them from LPG to straight petrol & it is saving them $10,000 a year in running costs.

Thanks champion - that's my thinking as well. Sure, fuel is going up and will continue to do so, but considering I was averaging about $0.51 per litre for LPG this time last year and now average around $0.69 per litre and this is only going to get worse also - I paid $0.94 per litre earlier this year up in central QLD and the petrol price wasn't that bad - obviously overpriced in country areas that do have it as it's not as popular ..

[Bigrig]

MMMM cause ya can get more power from gas if the vehicle is purely gas devoted ie a gas research system but if ya cant get gas whats the point and dunno about patrols but a mate had twin gas tanks put on his 100 series and has pretty much defeated the purpose of his 3" lift. Hopefully it doesnt happen but if my td42 sh1ts itself i've been thinkin diesel v8 like the GM hummer 8's.

Mine's an old lpg system also - so I'd be looking at another $1500-1600 to upgrade it to make it more economical. AND I can't start it cold on LPG as my system doesn't do the automatic petrol squirt thing and subsequently backfires - that's cost me one air box already ...

[growler2058]

Mine's an old lpg system also - so I'd be looking at another $1500-1600 to upgrade it to make it more economical. AND I can't start it cold on LPG as my system doesn't do the automatic petrol squirt thing and subsequently backfires - that's cost me one air box already ...

Mate if your gunna rebuild ya donk to go down the blower path i would definately pi55 the gas off, with a blower comes torque with torque comes less right pedal with less right pedal comes less fuel use with less fuel use comes more spare coin with more spare coin comes more mods and hot ups with more mods and hot ups come bigger hills to be conquered with bigger conquered hills comes a bigger silly grin on your face...win win win loose the gas

[Bigrig]

Mate if your gunna rebuild ya donk to go down the blower path i would definately pi55 the gas off, with a blower comes torque with torque comes less right pedal with less right pedal comes less fuel use with less fuel use comes more spare coin with more spare coin comes more mods and hot ups with more mods and hot ups come bigger hills to be conquered with bigger conquered hills comes a bigger silly grin on your face...win win win loose the gas

I'm actually giggling!! Classic - great word association to finally get to the point of p!ssing off the LPG .. LMFAO!!

Didn't really think about the torque/less fuel use aspect (not when I first get it I'm sure, I'll be into it!!!). Good points - thanks old mate!!

[growler2058]

I'm actually giggling!! Classic - great word association to finally get to the point of p!ssing off the LPG .. LMFAO!!

Didn't really think about the torque/less fuel use aspect (not when I first get it I'm sure, I'll be into it!!!). Good points - thanks old mate!!

BUT.....................to throw a small spanner in the works. If youre gunna do desert drivin/outback there can be difficuilties obtaining petrol, and even with a long distance tank you would prob need to carry xtra jerries......so there pops up diesel again with a super charger, train like torque and we no with torque comes............................................. .............

[Bigrig]

BUT.....................to throw a small spanner in the works. If youre gunna do desert drivin/outback there can be difficuilties obtaining petrol, and even with a long distance tank you would prob need to carry xtra jerries......so there pops up diesel again with a super charger, train like torque and we no with torque comes............................................. .............

True, but how often would I be doing greater than 700-800klms without a fuel stop? The gunbarrel is some way off for me yet, but there's a few tracks that are a good 500-600 klms on the trip we are looking at doing next year ... Basically I'm trying to avoid ripping out the engine - it's a solid donk, and with the rebuild (tweaked) and a super charger I'm looking at greater than 200 kilowatts on a truck that came with about 120 new ...

I'm becoming convinced about the LPG going, now it's back to the bloody engine!! LOL ...

[YNOT]

Mine's an old lpg system also - so I'd be looking at another $1500-1600 to upgrade it to make it more economical. AND I can't start it cold on LPG as my system doesn't do the automatic petrol squirt thing and subsequently backfires - that's cost me one air box already ...

Due to the unavailabillity of LPG in remote areas LPG as a fuel is is just not viable for the sort of driving you want to do.
And $1500-1600 buys a lot of petrol.

Tony

[Bigrig]

Due to the unavailabillity of LPG in remote areas LPG as a fuel is is just not viable for the sort of driving you want to do.
And $1500-1600 buys a lot of petrol.

Tony

That's my thinking - thanks mate, I was hoping you'd chime in at some stage with your specialist knowledge in this space.

Give me room under the bonnet for a second battery also with the mixer, compressor/condenser (or whatever its called) gone ...

[jaxt]

bigrig,
I'm in the same boat (no pun intended) as you.
however....
1) I've decided that I'll buy a diesel rig ie 80/100 series for touring ...
2) and the trol will be for playing and work daily. keeping the gas on it as it works well for me as the savings for my driving habits are significant.
3) going to buy thicker plate for the gas tank and put more fruits in it..
4) lift it more and extract as much power out of it without forced induction and offset any cost for forced induction into the diesel tourer.

just a thought
hope you come to a resolution
but to answer your question regarding petrol vs lpg....don't know sorry....

[Bigrig]

bigrig,
I'm in the same boat (no pun intended) as you.
however....
1) I've decided that I'll buy a diesel rig ie 80/100 series for touring ...
2) and the trol will be for playing and work daily. keeping the gas on it as it works well for me as the savings for my driving habits are significant.
3) going to buy thicker plate for the gas tank and put more fruits in it..
4) lift it more and extract as much power out of it without forced induction and offset any cost for forced induction into the diesel tourer.

just a thought
hope you come to a resolution

Thanks mate - good luck with yours also!

[tkn]

So who can talk me out of it and why?? LOL!!! I think I've sorted it on my head, but would love to hear others thoughts on it.



Don't know that I can talk you out of it - to me it makes a lot of sense.

You might add to your thinking that if you're going to throw big bucks into rebuilding an engine, run it on petrol! Gas is not engine friendly. Cheap it might once have been e.g. $0.10/litre, but higher burn temperatures, dryer fuel, etc. all cause problems - even if you do fit a drip oiling system.

Not absolutely convinced about throwing a supercharger on a new engine. My thought would be to rebuild the engine and give it a good run in period and with the added power of a new donk and petrol fuel, then decide whether or not to fit the supercharger. Might make it a bit easier on the pocket too.

When you are looking at the extra fuel tank - if you locate it at the back end an extra 140Kg (i.e. about 150 litres of fuel) is likely to throw your handling out a bit, especially with a heavy trailer load.

I bought my GQ ute (diesel) with a 200litre tank replacing the original tank (hung from the chassis rails just behind the cab) - its a bit of weird shape, but I have had no problems with it. I will post some pics if you would like an idea of what it is.

You might replace the main tank with a larger tank and position the 72 litre tank (about 60Kgs) near the rear of the vehicle, which may give you better balance.

[Bigrig]

Don't know that I can talk you out of it - to me it makes a lot of sense.

You might add to your thinking that if you're going to throw big bucks into rebuilding an engine, run it on petrol! Gas is not engine friendly. Cheap it might once have been e.g. $0.10/litre, but higher burn temperatures, dryer fuel, etc. all cause problems - even if you do fit a drip oiling system.

Not absolutely convinced about throwing a supercharger on a new engine. My thought would be to rebuild the engine and give it a good run in period and with the added power of a new donk and petrol fuel, then decide whether or not to fit the supercharger. Might make it a bit easier on the pocket too.

When you are looking at the extra fuel tank - if you locate it at the back end an extra 140Kg (i.e. about 150 litres of fuel) is likely to throw your handling out a bit, especially with a heavy trailer load.

I bought my GQ ute (diesel) with a 200litre tank replacing the original tank (hung from the chassis rails just behind the cab) - its a bit of weird shape, but I have had no problems with it. I will post some pics if you would like an idea of what it is.

You might replace the main tank with a larger tank and position the 72 litre tank (about 60Kgs) near the rear of the vehicle, which may give you better balance.

Thanks for all of that mate. All good points. On the tank, the one that's on it now takes up all the space available, so no chance of getting anything bigger in there, and I have poly airbags in the rear so can use those if and when the rear rank is full to stabilize things ...

Definitely running the engine one first prior to super charging - part of his process apparently - basically get everything solid with the engine and performance, then throw it on ...

Appreciate the feedback!!!

[Sir Roofy]

m y experience with dual fuel is,i dont like it,as you stated theres no long range driving with it, i can squeeze100lts into my tank
that gets me 420ks on good going with the trailer about390 .wish i had stayed with the diesle but thought gas was the go with the rising costs
wrong costs more in the long run,oh my sub tank is about 70lt,so now my main mission now is to try and imean try and go back to diesle

[Bigrig]

m y experience with dual fuel is,i dont like it,as you stated theres no long range driving with it, i can squeeze100lts into my tank
that gets me 420ks on good going with the trailer about390 .wish i had stayed with the diesle but thought gas was the go with the rising costs
wrong costs more in the long run,oh my sub tank is about 70lt,so now my main mission now is to try and imean try and go back to diesle

Thanks Roofy - yep, all is not as it seems when it comes to LPG ... I'm fast learning that also ...

[the evil twin]

I reckon you need to simplify the question a tad... Do you want power or do you want outback touring range? If you want power spend the money on the petty, if you want touring range spend the money on getting deisel power.

You dont have to get far off the beaten track over this way before the price of ULP is very close to or equals Diesel and 225 litres of Diesel gets you a long loong way before you have to even think about jerries.

I had a similar quandary with my dual fuel GQ. Loved that truck and sold her pretty much because the dual fuel situation was a total PIA when looking for LPG supplies off the highways. I even considered making up or buying an LPG refuelling dongle to get LPG out of portable cylinders or wacking a second 90 litre cylinder in the back.

Only had Diesel vehicles since and whilst I get to come last off the lights every time around town I have not regretted the change one bit as soon as we hitch up the camper and head bush

Mind you a blown straight petty would def have some go... hehehehe

[fixer982]

It's funny, but I just had this discussion the other day. My GU is dual fuel and a daily driver, and I use about a tank of petrol every 4-5 tanks of LPG. It has 248,000 on teh clock and generally runs like a swiss watch. We did a trip to Darwin though last year towing a hired camper trailer. They reckon that because it was Aluminium, it would be lighter, but even so, the Trol drank fuel and started me thinking about either going off gas and optimising for petrol, or converting to a Chevy 6.2l diesel. The cost is high either way, and running around town, I save quite a bit(Petrol $1.35-$1.45/l against LPG at $0.65-70c/l). The towing is the problem, and after what I have read here and elsewhere, I cannot see me buying a newer Patrol with a 3 Litre 4 cylinder to tow a caravan when I do the grey nomad thing, so teh choice is either a Tojo or a conversion. I liked the idea of the TD42 but they seem to be in short supply.

Either way, Bigrig, I feel your pain. It's not an easy problem to get around. Now if they just had a V8 Twin Turbo Patrol Diesel in my price range.....

[Bob]

I suppose it all depends on what you are using your Patrol for. Travelling the outback I would definately not have Gas however in my case travelling around Victoria and Southern NSW where Gas is readily available it is more economical on Gas as follows and I have made the fuel use worse than I get on Gas and better than I get on Petrol

GAS 100 K'S @ 22 LITRES @ 69C PER LITRE = $15-18
PETROL 100 K'S @ 14 LITRES @ $1,35 PER lITRE = $18-90. a SAVING OF $3.72 PER HUNDRED K'S

I ACHIEVE 18 LITRES PER HUNDRED ON GAS AND 16 LITRES PER HUNDRED ON PETROL

[fixer982]

So what did you do to your TB45 to get that economy, Bob? I agree with you on the local stuff as gas is cheap here in SA, but on my trip to Darwin, I paid over $1.30/l at one point. The b**ger was grinning as he was putting it in though.

[the evil twin]

LPG... $1.20 in Exmouth, $1.30 in Derby, $1.20 in Newman, $1.00 in Karratha, $1.00 in Esperance, 90 cents in Kalgoorlie

You don't want to know how much in the roadhouses and whistle stops I can tell ya...

[Bob]

So what did you do to your TB45 to get that economy, Bob? I agree with you on the local stuff as gas is cheap here in SA, but on my trip to Darwin, I paid over $1.30/l at one point. The b**ger was grinning as he was putting it in though.

Thats why I said I would not have Gas for the Outback. My patrol is well tuned and I regularly get 18.5 Litres per 100 k's. Always on trips as I do not use as a daily. Towing my Camper Van (Jayco Dove) i achieve 22 Litres per 100 k's on Gas

[Bigrig]

I want the power and I want touring distance (can compromise a bit on this and hence my dilemma - I've put too much into the truck to simply offload it now for a diesel). 800klms on board on off road tracks would be plenty - after that, it's a given that I'd have to carry extra fuel, but in the meantime, I want a bit of stink for both pulling the camper, and off road. Around town, tuned for fuel after a rebuild, I'd be looking at about 18 litres per hundred - I'm doing 23-25 on LPG depending on how stop/start it is. At $0.70 per litre difference in price, covering about 250 k's per week, this equates to about $20 per week, which is not too bad a price to pay for the offset of having heaps better distance ability (and power!!! Did I mention power?!! LOL).

It's not getting any easier!! LOL!!

[Bob]

LPG... $1.20 in Exmouth, $1.30 in Derby, $1.20 in Newman, $1.00 in Karratha, $1.00 in Esperance, 90 cents in Kalgoorlie

You don't want to know how much in the roadhouses and whistle stops I can tell ya...

We complain when it gets to 69c per Litre except for Mildura and Towns a fair way from Melbourne. I am glad I dont have to pay your Prices

[Bob]

I want the power and I want touring distance (can compromise a bit on this and hence my dilemma - I've put too much into the truck to simply offload it now for a diesel). 800klms on board on off road tracks would be plenty - after that, it's a given that I'd have to carry extra fuel, but in the meantime, I want a bit of stink for both pulling the camper, and off road. Around town, tuned for fuel after a rebuild, I'd be looking at about 18 litres per hundred - I'm doing 23-25 on LPG depending on how stop/start it is. At $0.70 per litre difference in price, covering about 250 k's per week, this equates to about $20 per week, which is not too bad a price to pay for the offset of having heaps better distance ability (and power!!! Did I mention power?!! LOL).

It's not getting any easier!! LOL!!

I know exactly how you feel. I wish I had a 4.2 Diesel

[the evil twin]

Keep it and switch to straight petty, mate... you love the truck too much reading between the lines and ... Pffft... money is only money, $20 a week is what 1/2 a slab

[Bigrig]

Keep it and switch to straight petty, mate... you love the truck too much reading between the lines and ... Pffft... money is only money, $20 a week is what 1/2 a slab

Thanks for all the input mate - yep, I do love it, and money is important, but I figure more to the point, 20 dollars is not much more than a pack of smokes, and I'm planning on giving them up and was going through over a pack a day ... so really, I'm saving money!!!! LOL ...only to give it back to the government another way ...

[growler2058]

So what did you do to your TB45 to get that economy, Bob? I agree with you on the local stuff as gas is cheap here in SA, but on my trip to Darwin, I paid over $1.30/l at one point. The b**ger was grinning as he was putting it in though.


LPG... $1.20 in Exmouth, $1.30 in Derby, $1.20 in Newman, $1.00 in Karratha, $1.00 in Esperance, 90 cents in Kalgoorlie

You don't want to know how much in the roadhouses and whistle stops I can tell ya...

Bloody hell thats criminal ay!!!

[MQ MAD]

This is the exact reason why i bought a pettie GQ to start with
All the LPG/pettie ones around when i was looking
They either ran great on petrol or great on LPG
Never on both
Or delema was due to access to LPG out where i live petrol was the go
Then all the other hassles with LPG converted cars having issues
IF we ever run a heap of Ks on the car , i mite consider LPG , but i dont think so

Best part is even in factory form the TB42 has amble of power for what we need
Just need a bank loan to run the bugger

Diesel at the local fuel ripoff is 10C a litre dearer than petrol nowadays