How to get intake temps below 20 degrees

[johno90]

Sooo long story short I went and through another few grand at the patrol in the last month and have walked away quite happy and surprised.

Part of me little shopping spree was an intercooler that would work with no vehicle movement ( sounds crazy aye)
Anyway being a mech/ auto lecy & refrig trades I decided to have a good old play around.
I ordered a frozen boost intercooler kit (600hp) with type 10 cooler, mainly cause it fits well
Also dont want to hear flames about using frozen boost kit some fail some dont haha I know this but ive always had good experience with them.
Fit up the intercooler kit as per normal, all good. but then i decided to go and grab a brazed plate cooler ( http://westank.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/wespacic-672x1332.jpg ) if your not sure what one is. Made up some a/c hoses and tigged up some 3 way joiners, and run a/c gas through one side of the cooler and then the water going to the intercooler through the other. After experimenting with different tx valves and superheat settings came across one that works out of the box :)

So how does it go:
Intercooler temp at idle- 1 degrees
Air temp at idle - 4 degrees
Intercooler temp at end of full power run - 18 degrees
Average max air temp over 4 power runs - 17.6 degrees
Before cooler max air temp on power run- 103 degrees

After a good hammering on the highway and jump out of the car the intake manifold metal temp is 21.4 degrees

And for the sake of info- Max boost was 33Psi and max egt was 550 measured BEFORE turbo
Highway cruise boost 8psi and egt 275 measured before turbo

Running anti freeze in the system is a must as temps drop below 0 when left idling and cruising

Total cost to setup
$790 for intercooler kit
$800 for cooling setup

[Turtle_au]

Sooo long story short I went and through another few grand at the patrol in the last month and have walked away quite happy and surprised.

Part of me little shopping spree was an intercooler that would work with no vehicle movement ( sounds crazy aye)
Anyway being a mech/ auto lecy & refrig trades I decided to have a good old play around.
I ordered a frozen boost intercooler kit (600hp) with type 10 cooler, mainly cause it fits well
Also dont want to hear flames about using frozen boost kit some fail some dont haha I know this but ive always had good experience with them.
Fit up the intercooler kit as per normal, all good. but then i decided to go and grab a brazed plate cooler ( http://westank.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/wespacic-672x1332.jpg ) if your not sure what one is. Made up some a/c hoses and tigged up some 3 way joiners, and run a/c gas through one side of the cooler and then the water going to the intercooler through the other. After experimenting with different tx valves and superheat settings came across one that works out of the box :)

So how does it go:
Intercooler temp at idle- 1 degrees
Air temp at idle - 4 degrees
Intercooler temp at end of full power run - 18 degrees
Average max air temp over 4 power runs - 17.6 degrees
Before cooler max air temp on power run- 103 degrees

After a good hammering on the highway and jump out of the car the intake manifold metal temp is 21.4 degrees

And for the sake of info- Max boost was 33Psi and max egt was 550 measured BEFORE turbo
Highway cruise boost 8psi and egt 275 measured before turbo

Running anti freeze in the system is a must as temps drop below 0 when left idling and cruising

Total cost to setup
$790 for intercooler kit
$800 for cooling setup
4 degrees at idle, what do you do about the condensate in the inlet?

Sent from my SM-T355Y using Tapatalk

[johno90]

Nothing as it doesn't occur, it condensates on the hotter side being outside the intake manifold, same as you dont get condensation on the inside of an evaporator - only the outside hence the drain tube for the evap box :)

[nissannewby]

Can you lean on it a bit more with fuelling? You are well within pre turbo limits for egt.

Also what about sustained loads? Do you have any testing to do say towing 2t to so how the system copes with sustained heat loads. 4 power runs is hardly sustained loading.

Your turbo is suprisingly low outlet temps which is good. What turbo are you using?

Your results are good and have me intrigued.

[PeeBee]

Excellent outcome. I have often wondered how I could utilise the cooling capacity of the AC system for the intercooler, but never made the leap regards the second heat exchanger. My thoughts were along the lines of a second coil in the path of the hot air, but again, never got any further. Good to see these results. What ambient temps were you running in?

[johno90]

PeeBee Second coil in front would work but no where near as efficient and very cumbersome. Ambient temps were 32 degrees

nissannewby - Would love to put more fuel in but need to wait for the new pump, current one runs out at 260hp.
I have sat in 5th gear full noise up the local range up here and experienced same results egt just crept to about 570. Which is will give me plenty of headroom with the new pump :) My camper is currently in brissy so when I grab it next I can do some full load runs.
Ive actually tested 2 turbos with this setup - the new style ufi 18g with a billet wheel and a kingu 18g 8cm with billet wheel and 9 blade exhaust wheel, Surprisingly the kingu makes boost a good 400 rpm sooner and holds great, lower egt and cooler outlet temps. So its stayed bolted on for now haha, if it goes bang then the ufi is there as backup. the ufi outlet temps in same conditions was 160 degrees and egt was up on average 50-60 degrees everywhere.

In saying this I have obviously got all the rest of the supporting mods needed to run this, not just the cooler alone. Intake, exhaust etc etc

[johno90]

One thing to add tho is there is a couple of ways to set this up - I have mine running constant which is not really needed, you could run a temp switch to turn on the compressor when the system is needed so you dont suffer loss through the compressor. But that also is nil point if you have you cabin a/c on, The system also doesn't effect the performance of the cabin a/c at all.

[Tip12345]

what a great idea any chance of a few pictures . I want to build an out front intercooler . having one on top of a hot engine is well cheap and crappy . I have a core and have started on the headers for the cooler . it looks like I will have a custom grill to get it all in there ! still I like your idea think its a smart solution

[johno90]

Ill grab some piccies when i come off shift, (thursday) The actual cooler I still have sitting ontop of the engine, very short path from turbo to manifold. and then an additional radiator in front of the condenser, then the plate heat exchanger Ive managed to tuck behind the LH headlight and airbox.

[mudski]

Interesting stuff. Reminds me of my younger days running my computer's CPU at -30c and overclocking this shite out of it. Then spend countless hours at night running bench tests.

[johno90]

Sorry for the very late reply, Heres some pics of the cool, heat exchanger and bar/plate heat exchanger & lines.
Got a bit ahead of myself as all this new power ate the clutch so now im half way through putting in an auto haha :P
Im also building a cooler case to sit the exchanger in and insulate the a/c return lines and water lines.
Ive put about 2,500km on the setup so far and couldn't be happier :)

72442724437244472445

[PeeBee]

I am wondering how effective this might be if it was adapted to use on the oil cooler circuit? I know the heat load is probably higher and likely would have a detrimental effect on the cabin a/c system - what are your thoughts? I am curious regards my new chev diesel installation, plus i am sure MB would be keen to know as well as he battles heat stress more than me. Interestingly I have temp probes on the tops and bottom of the radiator and the inlet/outlets of the existing oil cooler and the oil sits at about 90 deg c and the water at 72 degC cruising, up to about ambient temps of say 33degC and moderate driving.

[nissannewby]

Nothing wrong with those oil temps. You dont want low oil temps as the engine and oil are made to work at those temps. Usually from 80-100C is a good operating temp.

Charge air temp and engine oil temp are two very different things in relation to their effect and where they operate.

With everything temp wise what you want is stability. 90C coolant temps are perfectly acceptable but if it sky rockets at the slightest addition of load then you have an issue. And for the most part it wont be the radiator at fault but poor system maintenance or poor airflow. A radiator will nearly always work at around 10 degress temp drop across the core with adequate air supply no matter its size. (In perspective of course)

[PeeBee]

Nothing wrong with those oil temps. You dont want low oil temps as the engine and oil are made to work at those temps. Usually from 80-100C is a good operating temp.

Charge air temp and engine oil temp are two very different things in relation to their effect and where they operate.

With everything temp wise what you want is stability. 90C coolant temps are perfectly acceptable but if it sky rockets at the slightest addition of load then you have an issue. And for the most part it wont be the radiator at fault but poor system maintenance or poor airflow. A radiator will nearly always work at around 10 degress temp drop across the core with adequate air supply no matter its size. (In perspective of course)

OK, thanks for that, I get approx 9 -12 deg C drop across the coil according to the probes. Just curious regards elevated temps from high ambients and also towing loads.

[johno90]

PeeBee as NissanNewbie said your oil temps are good, and consistency is the key to them, In saying that if your talking about a 6.5 diesel they can be pretty temperamental sometimes had a few of them in other chevs I've owned.
But adding additional systems will not diminish cabin a/c performance if the gas quantity is correct. Only exception is if you go to big then you need a bigger compressor to pump said extra area.

Just for info sakes - There is actually a place in the US that makes td/tb bellhousing adapters to allow you to run a chev auto behind a td42 etc :P

[PeeBee]

Thanks Johno90, I will see how this next summer goes and evaluate then.

[johno90]

Hey, Just a bit of an update!

So up here in lovely Moranbah its Hot ASF! :) Perfect to test everything out.
Current setup is same as before except I now have an auto instead of a manual.
Test setup:
41 Degree day
2t Load on the trailer
33" tyres with 4.1 diffs
re4 Auto
36psi boost 18g turbo

Run along the highway and up the range.
Results:
Highway:
Coolant temp:90
Amb temp:48
Intake temp: 22
Water temp- measured at w2a rad: 10

Up the Range:
Coolant temp: 97
Amb temp:49
Intake temp: 24
Water temp w2a: 11
Boost constant around 30psi

All up I am very happy with how it turned out :) If i did it again I would probs get a bigger plate exchanger which would give better results again. Tho any bigger would be pushing the pumping limits of the compressor which is ok just means would have to mount up a slightly large compressor.

In saying all of this to, in cab A/C is still icy cold, no draw backs from the system at all.

[Tip12345]

Righto ... how about a parts list ! this sounds like something I would like to try .
I hate the inter cooler on mu GU . sitting on top of the engine . I can do the fabrication . just need a help with the bits ... what a great idea

[johno90]

73995
So thats the layout, Red lines are high pressure side and Blue lines and Low pressure side.
Fittings and hose layout will be up to where ever you mount your cooler but you get a rough idea if you look at mine and where i welded the joiners in.
Any plate heat exchanger that will handle 300psi will work fine, tho bigger is better in this case mines a around 200mm x 50mm x 60 plates deep.
As for the intercooler itself its straight from Frozen Boost, I've been using them for years in drag cars & patrols and never had an issue- just don't cheap out you can see on their site the cores that are better quality and are around $200 more expensive.

Water is plumbed from bottom port of intercooler radiator to bosch water pump, up through the plate exchanger where it is cooled by the a/c then out through the intercooler then back to the main radiator for the intercooler.

There is only 1 other person in Aus making these kits and hes selling them for around $2500 not including an intercooler just the A/C stuff.

[PeeBee]

Hey, Just a bit of an update!

So up here in lovely Moranbah its Hot ASF! :) Perfect to test everything out.
Current setup is same as before except I now have an auto instead of a manual.
Test setup:
41 Degree day
2t Load on the trailer
33" tyres with 4.1 diffs
re4 Auto
36psi boost 18g turbo

Run along the highway and up the range.
Results:
Highway:
Coolant temp:90
Amb temp:48
Intake temp: 22
Water temp- measured at w2a rad: 10

Up the Range:
Coolant temp: 97
Amb temp:49
Intake temp: 24
Water temp w2a: 11
Boost constant around 30psi

All up I am very happy with how it turned out :) If i did it again I would probs get a bigger plate exchanger which would give better results again. Tho any bigger would be pushing the pumping limits of the compressor which is ok just means would have to mount up a slightly large compressor.

In saying all of this to, in cab A/C is still icy cold, no draw backs from the system at all.

This is bugging me! I am seriously considering it for my barge. What I don't understand is the function of the w2a radiator? Is this simply a reservoir? Reason being if the w2a water temp is 10 deg, why would you put it back thru the w2a radiator if the ambient is 49degC, then re-chill it with the a.c gas? I am assuming the coolant temps above are the engine radiator temps also? Who out there can clear this up? I have PM'd Johno90 but he isn't a regular visitor it seems.

[Ben-e-boy]

This is bugging me! I am seriously considering it for my barge. What I don't understand is the function of the w2a radiator? Is this simply a reservoir? Reason being if the w2a water temp is 10 deg, why would you put it back thru the w2a radiator if the ambient is 49degC, then re-chill it with the a.c gas? I am assuming the coolant temps above are the engine radiator temps also? Who out there can clear this up? I have PM'd Johno90 but he isn't a regular visitor it seems.
This page should help
https://fiinterchillers.com/products/

[PeeBee]

Thanks Bene, this is the system I am looking at. Only thing is the results seem very short lived if you read the reviews - keen to understand if the same results will be sustainable over a longer period, say 8hrs of driving? The recovery references are all related to drag race events. Plus still at a loss regards the function of the hot w2a radiator in the loop - must be missing something.

[PeeBee]

OK, so made contact with FIinterchillers and yes, they delete the front mount radiator as it simply heats the water up, so my thinking was correct. Anyway, finally got the size of the interchiller unit from them, and will see if it will fit or need a custom unit. They have a fair bit of info on the website about their design without giving too much away, which is fair enough. Now on the hunt for either a PWR or a Plazaman w2a unit and pump. Seems a high flowrate pump is best, waiting to find out if the water loop needs a reservoir of any sort to increase the volume or not.

[Bundy1]

not sure who did it but someone shot the intercooler with a c02 to cool it off real cold to see the gains and they actually lost power on dyno the theory was the charge was to cold cause the diesel not to ignite properly..just a thought

[PeeBee]

Don't think I would place much credence in this. These diesel will run quite happily in minus 20 deg C as long as the fuel does not gel in the lines. Cold air and even colder is the win. maybe they pointed the co2 at their own head to see if the dyno numbers were going to be better, but they felt worse afterwards?

[Bundy1]

Don't think I would place much credence in this. These diesel will run quite happily in minus 20 deg C as long as the fuel does not gel in the lines. Cold air and even colder is the win. maybe they pointed the co2 at their own head to see if the dyno numbers were going to be better, but they felt worse afterwards?

Don’t know how plusable it is tho...but I dought either way the op will ever get this cold anyways....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NAcM8yRbCrA

[PeeBee]

Yeah, well, no details, so dismissed already. I have no doubt the effect for me will be decreased EGT's which is what I am after, There is documented evidence that power gains are certainly achieved. Have a look at FI Interchillers to see how they work. I have ordered mine already.