AC DC TIG Welders - What is good?

[dom14]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking for an AC/DC TIG welder with A/C frequency adjustment capability.

If I understand correctly, A/C frequency adjustment & Pulse frequency adjustment are two different things?! Right?

I'm after a unit with the ability to adjust A/C frequency 'cos of I thought it's a very good feature to have when welding Aluminium as a noob.

I located this unit of ebay, but not sure whether the mentioned "Pulse Frequency Adjustment 0.5- 300Hz" is any good with A/C frequency adjustment.

Bossweld 200 Digi Tig AC/DC 240V (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bossweld-200-Digi-Tig-AC-DC-240V/222159490504?_trksid=p2045573.c100508.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555014%26algo%3DPL.DEFAULT%26ao%3D 1%26asc%3D20160706105120%26meid%3D413d7b998ca548e5 bb9a2f8cac6c4bdf%26pid%3D100508%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1 %26)

Any advice, tips, directions will be greatly appreciated. The price of the above or less is what I prefer to pay with the mentioned "needy" features above.

Thanx

[dom14]

Or this.

New Unimig 200 Amp AC/DC RazorWeld Tig Welder KUMJRRZ200ACDC | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Unimig-200-Amp-AC-DC-RazorWeld-Tig-Welder-KUMJRRZ200ACDC-/172396707003?hash=item2823a4fcbb:g:UqIAAOSw5cNYGs-4)

[dom14]

Or this

**EOFY SALE** ALU-TIG 200P AC/DC PULSE INVERTER WELDER (OLYMPIC) | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EOFY-SALE-ALU-TIG-200P-AC-DC-PULSE-INVERTER-WELDER-OLYMPIC-/182599743606?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275)

[bazzaboy]

Or this.

New Unimig 200 Amp AC/DC RazorWeld Tig Welder KUMJRRZ200ACDC | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Unimig-200-Amp-AC-DC-RazorWeld-Tig-Welder-KUMJRRZ200ACDC-/172396707003?hash=item2823a4fcbb:g:UqIAAOSw5cNYGs-4)

I know nothing about welders but my son "the mechanic" does. He just bought this unit a few days ago and says he's very happy with it. I watched him use it on the weekend testing it on thin exhaust pipe steel to joining half inch plate. Very nice looking welds. He said that the "smart" mode on it worked very well.

[dom14]

I know nothing about welders but my son "the mechanic" does. He just bought this unit a few days ago and says he's very happy with it. I watched him use it on the weekend testing it on thin exhaust pipe steel to joining half inch plate. Very nice looking welds. He said that the "smart" mode on it worked very well.

It says "AC Square Wave 20 - 250Hz", indicating the AC frequency adjustable range.

I already have a cheaper TIG welder. I'm looking for a one for Aly welding for my weird projects.
I've been told being able to adjust AC frequency is far more important for Aly welding than having adjustable pulse.
Also being told being able switch between different wave patterns is also pretty hand feature, but apparently the units come with
that feature are bit dearer(2k and above by the looks of it).

[dom14]

I would very much like to hear from the guys here about the experience on Aly welding and the brand/model of welding machines you guys use for that.

Thanx
Dom

[NissanGQ4.2]

Not sure on what TIG welders the boys are using at work 2 weld up the alloy tool boxes, canopies and all the other alloy jobs they get, I'll try and take a photo 2morrow. I dare say they aren't cheap ones though. All I know is they are not gas less welders.

Why isn't your cheaper TIG welder good enough for home projects? Your a perfections aren't you Dom *L*

[GQtdauto]

The first unit you selected would be ok for you , I have an older unit the same brand , you do have square wave adjustment and you do have high frequency and can also select pulse .
When I get home from holidays I'll give you a laymens rundown on what all that means but get a unit with AC/DC usually you won't get one under a grand that's capable of doing Aly.

[BigRAWesty]

Imo out of those 3 the unimig is my pick.
They are a solid unit with a good rep in the industry.
In regaurds to alloy you want a couple of variable features..
Pulse width is the big one...
You can set it to how fast you weld..
Adjustable frequency is nice. Gives you the ability it have it setup to more clean the alloy as you weld..
And gas flow on off slops.
I like to have gas on for a second before weld starts and 3-4 seconds post weld while the weld pool solidifies..
Apart from those go nuts..

[BigRAWesty]

Yep unimig for sure.
Looks like a good easy to use unit.

[dom14]

Not sure on what TIG welders the boys are using at work 2 weld up the alloy tool boxes, canopies and all the other alloy jobs they get, I'll try and take a photo 2morrow. I dare say they aren't cheap ones though. All I know is they are not gas less welders.

Why isn't your cheaper TIG welder good enough for home projects? Your a perfections aren't you Dom *L*

Hi mate,

The el cheapo TIG unit I have is a DC TIG unit. It's not and AC unit, so won't weld aluminium.
It's also a scratch start TIG unit, not a high frequency start one.
So, it's ok for some small steel TIG jobs that doesn't need to look good.
For Aly welding, I gota get hold of an AC/DC unit.
There are so many of them available from China, I don't know which is good and which one isn't.
I thought, asking the blokes here is the way to go. :D

Cheers
Dom

[dom14]

The first unit you selected would be ok for you , I have an older unit the same brand , you do have square wave adjustment and you do have high frequency and can also select pulse .
When I get home from holidays I'll give you a laymens rundown on what all that means but get a unit with AC/DC usually you won't get one under a grand that's capable of doing Aly.

Hi mate,

The first unit in the OP is out of the menu.
The sellers says that it's been discontinued.
He can't answer whether 0.5-300Hz setting is for pulse or AC frequency either.
But, I suspect that range is for AC frequency.
There are quite a few of them on ebay.
I'll have to take a bit of time and find out more info, read reviews, etc.

Thanx

[dom14]

These Token Tools branded units are pretty good with their super long warranty deal, but pricey.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/110677958732?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

[dom14]

Hey Guys,

I just found the below unit. that comes with AC frequency adjustment as well as choice of waveform(four wave forms).
They also include foot pedal. Says it comes with a three-year warranty. Brand name is Olympic.
Have any of you fellas come across this particular brand/unit?
I can't find any reviews.
The price is pretty good for all the features it offer.
It doesn't come with the argon regulator, but that's fine.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/182599743606?ul_noapp=true

Any opinions or experience with this particular machine?

[BigRAWesty]

Hey Guys,

I just found the below unit. that comes with AC frequency adjustment as well as choice of waveform(four wave forms).
They also include foot pedal. Says it comes with a three-year warranty. Brand name is Olympic.
Have any of you fellas come across this particular brand/unit?
I can't find any reviews.
The price is pretty good for all the features it offer.
It doesn't come with the argon regulator, but that's fine.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/182599743606?ul_noapp=true

Any opinions or experience with this particular machine?
I wouldn't get hung up on extra bit like a foot pedal.
Ive got one and in the 5 years ive had it its never been plugged in lol..
My pick is still unimig

[dom14]

I wouldn't get hung up on extra bit like a foot pedal.
Ive got one and in the 5 years ive had it its never been plugged in lol..
My pick is still unimig

Thanx mate.
Yeah, I've been told before that the foot pedal rarely comes handy.:)

Yeah, I like the Unimig unit. I haven't been able to locate a local seller from a shopfront yet.

Check out below unit. They offer five year warranty including a 30 day moneyback return guarantee(even if I use the machine).
They pay for the return warranty claims postage including 30 day returns. Sounds good. Dunno whether the machine is any good though. It comes with digital controls, just like the Unimig unit above. It hasn't got the waveform controls but the warranty deal is pretty good by the looks of it. They are promoting it pretty well. I like lengthy warranty periods for the peace of mind.
They are located here in Victoria.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/201948717885?ul_noapp=true

[gubigfish]

What about this one? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Unimig-200-Amp-AC-DC-RazorWeld-Tig-Welder-KUMJRRZ200ACDC/172396707003?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D9ef62e813e4f47d6ad4 93184a8f0f554%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26 mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D201948717885

[jff45]

The Unimig range have a good reputation. I haven't seen any that have A/C frequency adjustment so it might be worth researching whether that really is so important.

I was considering buying a Unimig but my TradeTools machine has exactly the same buttons & options but was $600 cheaper and that covered my outright argon bottle purchase and a good pile of consumables.

A learner will benefit from a foot pedal because it allows you to lower amps as the piece gets too hot.
You'll need a lot of experience to judge the correct starting amps and you'll need to be very proficient at feeding rod faster when you need to pick up speed. The foot pedal makes all that much easier.
A foot pedal is also great for starting the arc as you get torch and rod exactly in place before starting and you can hold the torch any way you like if you've got no start button to press.

Pulse is also good for beginners as it helps control the heat and allows you to move a bit slower while you're learning the technique.

[dom14]

What about this one? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Unimig-200-Amp-AC-DC-RazorWeld-Tig-Welder-KUMJRRZ200ACDC/172396707003?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D9ef62e813e4f47d6ad4 93184a8f0f554%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26 mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D201948717885

Yeah, that is the same one as in the OP.
I'm trying to locate a shopfront with the same price. :)

[dom14]

The Unimig range have a good reputation. I haven't seen any that have A/C frequency adjustment so it might be worth researching whether that really is so important.

I was considering buying a Unimig but my TradeTools machine has exactly the same buttons & options but was $600 cheaper and that covered my outright argon bottle purchase and a good pile of consumables.


Which TradeTool machine you have there with you mate? What is the model?
Can you forward me to the internet link, place you bought it, etc?

Thanx

[jff45]

TradeTools is the shop where I bought it. There was a link posted to it in the other thread.
They get them made in China with their own colours and name on them. They look exactly the same as many other brands.

I used the Unimig manual to set mine up because it was better written and easier to understand.
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72215

[dom14]

TradeTools is the shop where I bought it. There was a link posted to it in the other thread.
They get them made in China with their own colours and name on them. They look exactly the same as many other brands.

I used the Unimig manual to set mine up because it was better written and easier to understand.
...
72215

Thanx mate. It's the Renegade brand unit. I saw this one. The best price AC/DC unit I've seen so far. The bottom unit on the rack is the plasma cutter I guess? I guess you took a package deal with the cutter, welder and trolley?

https://www.tradetools.com/product-range/welding-equipment/welding-machines/renegade-200amp-inverter-ac-dc-tig-welder-35-duty-cycle

Only reason I haven't bought the Renegade unit is 'cos it hasn't got AC frequency adjustment and for that price there's no way they can do it. :), But, I'm still thinking long and hard whether I should go for the Renegade one.

What is your experience with it? How long have you had it for?

TradeTools doesn't have a shop in Melbourne, so I'll be looking at getting it shipped if I'm to buy it.

Thanx
Dom

[jff45]

The bottom unit is a Token Tools plasma cutter I bought 7 years ago. I made the trolley, just bought the wheels from Bunnings
I also have a 240 amp Unimig Procraft MIG machine that I've had for over 10 years. Never missed a beat.

You should get on to one of welding forums and ask them what importance to place on A/C frequency adjustment for a beginner with aluminium.

[NissanGQ4.2]

This is what a few of the boys in our workshop use

http://www.unimig.com.au/catalogue_product.asp?product=55&img=1246&category=0&subcategory=0

[dom14]

This is what a few of the boys in our workshop use

http://www.unimig.com.au/catalogue_product.asp?product=55&img=1246&category=0&subcategory=0

Thanx mate. I can't use three phase ones. My place has no three phase.

[NissanGQ4.2]

Thanx mate. I can't use three phase ones. My place has no three phase.

Yeh, I never really paid attention 2 the tigs until looking at the spec listing, but should of realised that they would of been.

[dom14]

Yeh, I never really paid attention 2 the tigs until looking at the spec listing, but should of realised that they would of been.

Having said that, somebody told me we can put 3 phase on residential properties without costing an arm and a leg.
I hope that is right.
Previously I thought it is only for industrial/business properties only.
I would love to have 3 phase in my place, but I don't think I can anyway. It's not my own place.

[jff45]

My experience with the Renegade?
I bought it last year, end of September, for my 71st birthday after thinking that I was probably already too old to learn to Tig, especially aluminium.

I practised regularly for a couple of months, went through piles of scrap alu. Lots of time is lost initially because you keep touching the tungsten in the puddle and have to stop to regrind it each time. It can get frustrating if you don't keep your eye on the end goal.

Got tired of practising on scrap so made a letterbox out of checkerplate. Then remade my steel airbox from 3mm aluminium. Not the prettiest but it works.

Here's some of my scrap practising.
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72272


My airbox..
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72274

This is a quick test I did on some thin square tube. 1.2 & 0.8mm.
With the 0.8 I started too hot (arrow) and nearly went through it. This is using a 2.4mm electrode with 1.6mm 5356 rod.
Just to show you can weld quite thin with no A/C frequency adjustment and without the bead getting too wide.
I'm pretty happy with it as a $798 welder..
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72275

The other piece there is a filet weld on 3mm scrap just to show that you can do acceptable welds in a reasonably short time if you practice enough.

[jff45]

More practice stuff.. obviously I'm not showing what didn't work :)
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[NissanGQ4.2]

More practice stuff.. obviously I'm not showing what didn't work :)
...


Cmon John show your crap ones 2..... I've seen worse from trade qualified people

[jff45]

Cmon John show your crap ones 2..... I've seen worse from trade qualified people

Too late mate, already binned for recycling. Don't want bad reminders lying around :)
Happy to take the compliment though..

[NissanGQ4.2]

Too late mate, already binned for recycling. Don't want bad reminders lying around :)
Happy to take the compliment though..

Funny.... I was happy 2 post up on Faceache my bad mig welding and blowing holes in metal..... Its all apart of learning :)

[jff45]

This is my $10 eBay flex head torch. The torch supplied with the welder was too thick with the start button on it and I didn't use the button anyway. The flex head allows you more choice of angle without getting your hand too uncomfortable.
It has a #7 nozzle with a gas lens that allows me to use the electrode further out. Electrode is 2.4mm zirconiated.
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The foot pedal supplied is a cheapie. You could probably make one similar from junk in the shed and gets a 10k linear pot from Jaycar.
It only has 40mm travel to go from 0 to 200 amps so not easy to get accurate settings.
To compensate for this I added another 10k pot in a plastic box and put it in line close to the machine so I can adjust it easily. I can now set max amps down to as low as 45 so the pedal is much more precise.
Cost about $10 in parts.
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72280

Hope that helps to show that you can get a reasonably priced setup that can do acceptable welds for the automotive hobbyist.
It's also not as hard to learn as some would have you believe if the put the effort into learning.

[dom14]

Too late mate, already binned for recycling. Don't want bad reminders lying around :)
Happy to take the compliment though..

Thanx for the posts mate. It is really helpful indeed.

John, would you be able to try fusing two coke cans as in below video(check the time stamp 1:10)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq6ENYc55H4&t=37s

[jff45]

Ive seen lots of coke cans welded in the different forums but it's never interested me to try.

[dom14]

Ive seen lots of coke cans welded in the different forums but it's never interested me to try.

Do you think it's possible with your setup?

[jff45]

Do you think it's possible with your setup?

I don't see why not. Probably need to go down to a 1.6mm electrode. I did the 0.8mm thick weld I posted there with a 2.4mm electrode.
You could probably find Youtube vids where people have done coke cans with cheap chinese machines.

The alu tube for the drawers I'm going to weld for my GU is 1.5mm thickness so I now know I can do that with confidence.
You're not likely to see coke can thin work very often, if at all, so I don't see why that should be a criteria for choosing a machine.

[dom14]

I don't see why not. Probably need to go down to a 1.6mm electrode. I did the 0.8mm thick weld I posted there with a 2.4mm electrode.
You could probably find Youtube vids where people have done coke cans with cheap chinese machines.

The alu tube for the drawers I'm going to weld for my GU is 1.5mm thickness so I now know I can do that with confidence.
You're not likely to see coke can thin work very often, if at all, so I don't see why that should be a criteria for choosing a machine.

It is to do with some of my hobby project ideas. Not coke cans per say, but thin aluminium.

[BigRAWesty]

It is to do with some of my hobby project ideas. Not coke cans per say, but thin aluminium.So Dom what did you end up going?
Ive just invested in a new unimig viper.
It's only mig, but i have my tig in my other machine. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/08/120.jpg

[dom14]

So Dom what did you end up going?
Ive just invested in a new unimig viper.
It's only mig, but i have my tig in my other machine. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/08/120.jpg

Hi Kallen,
I'm still using the old one and haven't bought the new kit yet. What happened was I was onto a good deal but wasn't able to purchase it before the end of financial year(That was the special for) and the price went up.
I bought a MIG unit off ebay.
I'm getting the TIG unit soon.
I'll update the thread soon with the outcome.
Cheers
Dom

[BigRAWesty]

Hi Kallen,
I'm still using the old one and haven't bought the new kit yet. What happened was I was onto a good deal but wasn't able to purchase it before the end of financial year(That was the special for) and the price went up.
I bought a MIG unit off ebay.
I'm getting the TIG unit soon.
I'll update the thread soon with the outcome.
Cheers
DomYea bugger, its a pain when they run EFY sales..
Its like "do em in august when we have cash!!!"

This kit was on special at the local tool shop.
I was looking online and there around the 580-600 mark delivered.
The local had it for 699 but had a auto helmet valued at 130 and a trolly worth 160, and i walked out the door with it..
Bloody ripper.
Now just to get some gas..
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/08/127.jpg

[jff45]

The Unimig branded machines made by Jasic have proven to be pretty reliable.
The 200 amp ac/dc Tig Jasic/Unimig machines are very popular.

[dom14]

Yea bugger, its a pain when they run EFY sales..
Its like "do em in august when we have cash!!!"

This kit was on special at the local tool shop.
I was looking online and there around the 580-600 mark delivered.
The local had it for 699 but had a auto helmet valued at 130 and a trolly worth 160, and i walked out the door with it..
Bloody ripper.
Now just to get some gas..
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2017/08/127.jpg

Yeah, good MIG unit and extras for that price.
I'm guessing your buy your gas bottle outright?
There are few places sell most of the sizes like C, D, E, G etc, including Gasweld(Dandenong, etc), Bunnings, etc.
I'm guessing they are available to buy outright in your neck of the woods?

[BigRAWesty]

Yeah, good MIG unit and extras for that price.
I'm guessing your buy your gas bottle outright?
There are few places sell most of the sizes like C, D, E, G etc, including Gasweld(Dandenong, etc), Bunnings, etc.
I'm guessing they are available to buy outright in your neck of the woods?Na rent.
The local boc guy has hit back at buy outright.
$8/month rentals and $54 refills on an E2 size..
If you use a bottle a year its way cheaper.
I think i worked out that 4 years bottle change you broke even between the 2.
Change over of bought bottles are $100 plus..

[dom14]

Na rent.
The local boc guy has hit back at buy outright.
$8/month rentals and $54 refills on an E2 size..
If you use a bottle a year its way cheaper.
I think i worked out that 4 years bottle change you broke even between the 2.
Change over of bought bottles are $100 plus..

Yeah, that sounds cheap, but I reckon that deal is not available for hobby welders like myself.
I'm guessing you're getting that deal 'cos you're a businessman and you signup minimum one year rental with them?
Size E bottle can be your in two years for above rental price if you wanna buy it outright. But, you won't get the fifty dollar
refills as above though. Non rental Refill for argon E is about $150 or more. So, for businesses that go through many bottles a year, the above rental deal is good.
For me, a size E bottle can last years I reckon. So, renting won't be a good thing for and besides I doubt I'll get the cheap rental deal you have above.

[BigRAWesty]

Yeah, that sounds cheap, but I reckon that deal is not available for hobby welders like myself.
I'm guessing you're getting that deal 'cos you're a businessman and you signup minimum one year rental with them?
Size E bottle can be your in two years for above rental price if you wanna buy it outright. But, you won't get the fifty dollar
refills as above though. Non rental Refill for argon E is about $150 or more. So, for businesses that go through many bottles a year, the above rental deal is good.
For me, a size E bottle can last years I reckon. So, renting won't be a good thing for and besides I doubt I'll get the cheap rental deal you have above.Na its for the hobby guys, im a hobby welder..
Big business dont get the deal because rental and exchange are cheaper than purchase by miles even at full rental price.
The hobby guys are the customers he wants to keep so runs a much better deal on the smaller bottles.
Hes the only one in town.
Blackwoods havent jumped on board yet and i doubt they will..
No contracts, no abn.

[dom14]

Na its for the hobby guys, im a hobby welder..
Big business dont get the deal because rental and exchange are cheaper than purchase by miles even at full rental price.
The hobby guys are the customers he wants to keep so runs a much better deal on the smaller bottles.
Hes the only one in town.
Blackwoods havent jumped on board yet and i doubt they will..
No contracts, no abn.

Cool, I'll see whether I can get a good rental deal from the local BOC here.
Cheers

P.S. Another thing with this owning a bottle thing is that I've heard we can return the empty bottle and get a
refund. I'll have to find out if that is the case.

[VictorOscar]

The Unimig branded machines made by Jasic have proven to be pretty reliable.
The 200 amp ac/dc Tig Jasic/Unimig machines are very popular.

Agreed! I bought a Jasic AC/DC when I wanted to learn to tig alloy.

Anyone tig welding should invest in a foot pedal - it makes a world of difference.

It doesn't have AC frequency but I haven't yet come across a situation where I wished I had it - thought I mostly weld 3mm alloy with it.

[dom14]

Agreed! I bought a Jasic AC/DC when I wanted to learn to tig alloy.

Anyone tig welding should invest in a foot pedal - it makes a world of difference.

It doesn't have AC frequency but I haven't yet come across a situation where I wished I had it - thought I mostly weld 3mm alloy with it.

For me, AC frequency adjustment is important, or rather I think it is important for me.
I also like the idea of getting wave form choices for few waveforms if the budget allows it.