Wheels not running straight

[Addy]

Hi all,

Just got a wheel alignment done today with an adjustable drag link installed before hand. The steering wheel would turn to the left about 30 degrees when letting go of it (before the alignment), it is still moving above roughly 10 degrees to the left after but over a larger distance too so there is a major improvement but i was hoping it would be dead straight.

Is this normal to expect from this type of car? (2010 gu patrol wagon)
Is there anything else i should look at to fix it?


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[mudnut]

The adjustable draglink is designed to re-align the steering wheel so it should be straight. I guess that they did it in the shop to centre it without a test drive to check it properly. What size lift has been installed?

[Addy]

Thats what i thought. I will call the place up, and ask them to have another look.
The car is standard for now, only have had it for a month.


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[happygu]

With the camber of Australian Roads, it is not uncommon for cars to pull to the left when you let go of the steering wheel, and it is also a safety thing, as you don't want a car that drifts right into oncoming traffic if you suddenly lose grip on the wheel.

The adjustable draglink is only there to re-centre the wheel from the driver perspective, as when you install a suspension lift with only fixed components, it will drag the steering wheel around so the wheel is crooked when you are driving straight.

[dom14]

Hi all,

Just got a wheel alignment done today with an adjustable drag link installed before hand. The steering wheel would turn to the left about 30 degrees when letting go of it (before the alignment), it is still moving above roughly 10 degrees to the left after but over a larger distance too so there is a major improvement but i was hoping it would be dead straight.

Is this normal to expect from this type of car? (2010 gu patrol wagon)
Is there anything else i should look at to fix it?


If it pulls to the left on a dead flat stretch then you can call it pulling.
Most roads aren't that flat but angled slightly towards the left on left side.
A straight freeway is probably the best place to find out whether the vehicle is pulling to the left or right when the
steering wheel is let go.
It's not always a sign of a wheel alignment issue.
If the tyres are wearing out unevenly from outside, inside or middle, then it IS a wheel alignment issue.
Pressure differences between two front tyres, some of manufacturing defects tyres come with but you can see, etc etc
can cause the vehicle to pull right. Structural issues can also cause it, for example hitting a rock etc.
Even after correcting such issues by straightening up or replacing the bent suspension, steering part and aligning the
wheels, the pulling to the side still can continue.
Most important thing to be aware that the tyres don't wear out unevenly.
I think many 4WDs can end up pulling to the side a bit after rugged off road use over the years.

[MudRunnerTD]

Do yu mean the steering wheel is not aligned Top Dead Centre (TDC) when travelling straight on the road or that it pulls to the left? My read is the former. Why have you installed the adjustable Drag link without a lift?

Firstly. if it is a Steering wheel placement issue and its skewed to like 11oclock rather than 12nn TDC then they need to adjust the drag link again. They should do this for free as it was expected during their service. They will struggle to get that perfect on the hoist without going for a drive then checking it again.

Bear in mind that if you have an adjustable Drag Link that was designed for a 2" to 4" lift it may have run out of adjustment at Zero Lift and will go back into range of adjustment

[dom14]

Do yu mean the steering wheel is not aligned Top Dead Centre (TDC) when travelling straight on the road or that it pulls to the left? My read is the former. Why have you installed the adjustable Drag link without a lift?

Firstly. if it is a Steering wheel placement issue and its skewed to like 11oclock rather than 12nn TDC then they need to adjust the drag link again. They should do this for free as it was expected during their service. They will struggle to get that perfect on the hoist without going for a drive then checking it again.

Bear in mind that if you have an adjustable Drag Link that was designed for a 2" to 4" lift it may have run out of adjustment at Zero Lift and will go back into range of adjustment

Question popped into my head but I didn't ask. Adjustable drag link is not necessary for stock suspension, is it?

I think as you mentioned above, may be the OP was talking about steering wheel alignment when going straight.
One way to fix that is by straightening the front wheels and then pull the steering wheel out and fit it back straight. :)

[Maxhead]

the adjustable drag link will get your steering wheel back to center for sure. If they have it the wrong way around it will turn more one way then the other... pretty sure I went through this

Edit: I m sure there is a L and a R end








................on the road

[Addy]

Thanks for the advice dom14 and mudrunner.
I was just told i needed a drag link to fix and that i would need when i lift the car which i plan to do later on.
Yes the steering wheel will go to 11 oclock position i test it all the time while driving.
I called the place up and i got it done at Pro Axle, the guy said i needed to buy a camber cup/cap to fully fix the issue if i wanted to.

I bought the drag link from roadrunner offroad


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[mudski]

I called the place up and i got it done at Pro Axle, the guy said i needed to buy a camber cup/cap to fully fix the issue if i wanted to.



I got my front end done at ProAxle aswell. They also said the same thing. Or do what I did, which they also suggested, and put a return to centre steering dampener on, which for some reason people think they are shit, haven't found out why yet, and this will keep the car from drifting left, or right.
What they did say about the camber cups though is, that 1 they are expensive, and 2, not as strong as the original bearings as they are small because of the need to be offset to correct the camber. So the risk oif smashing the bearing is higher than it is when using the conventional setup.

Now I will go put my flame proof suit on and grab some popcorn.

[Addy]

I got my front end done at ProAxle aswell. They also said the same thing. Or do what I did, which they also suggested, and put a return to centre steering dampener on, which for some reason people think they are shit, haven't found out why yet, and this will keep the car from drifting left, or right.
What they did say about the camber cups though is, that 1 they are expensive, and 2, not as strong as the original bearings as they are small because of the need to be offset to correct the camber. So the risk oif smashing the bearing is higher than it is when using the conventional setup.

Now I will go put my flame proof suit on and grab some popcorn.

Everyones got there own opinions/setups mate haha.

Sweet thanks for the advice. The car rides alot smoother now anyways so i might look into the return to centre dampener as an option when im choosing suspension lift.


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[happygu]

I wouldn't be too worried about the steering wheel being off-centre if you are doing the suspension lift soon, as it will need to re-done with the lift anyway.

Mine has been off-centre for 6 years, and although having it centered properly apparently helps to stop the car wandering about too much, mine has been OK to drive as is.

I also know someone who tried to use an RTC Steering Damper, and then removed it as he couldn't stand the way it worked, but maybe it is something you need to get used to. Personally I have never tried it, as I too have always been told not to use one.

[MudRunnerTD]

Thanks for the advice dom14 and mudrunner.
I was just told i needed a drag link to fix and that i would need when i lift the car which i plan to do later on.
Yes the steering wheel will go to 11 oclock position i test it all the time while driving.
I called the place up and i got it done at Pro Axle, the guy said i needed to buy a camber cup/cap to fully fix the issue if i wanted to.

I bought the drag link from roadrunner offroad


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Interesting..... it seems they are trying to fix the Wrong problem though?

I have the Camber Offset upper Kingpin bearing race and had it for 150,000kms and is a great bit of kit. It is used to address a bit of steering shake (Death Wobbles) and pull to the left. Thats it.

If you can drive down the freeway at 100kms per hour and take your hands off the wheel and it stays true and straight then you don't need the offset camber race. If using the same experiment you drive straight and true and your steering wheel is set at 11oclock but straight and true then your drag link it adjusted incorrectly. In saying that though, what was your first problem that you were trying to fix with the drag link? Why did they say you needed that? I don't get what they were trying to fix using an adjustable drag link on a vehicle without a lift? Seems odd.

The adjustable Drag link specifically joins the steering box with the front left hub, that is all it does. the adjustment is specifically for adjusting the steering wheel to the 12oclock position. It is a Drag link so it is dragged by the steering box to operate the steering rack which is the left hub, tie rod (Behind the diff) and right hub.

If your steering wheel was out of alignment because of an impact with a gutter or something then its a different problem all together and may have slipped on the spline and needs to be removed and repositioned.


I just re-read your original post.

1. The Drag link actually performs No Part of a Wheel alignment, it is simply to realign the steering wheel to 12.

2. The Tie rod on the other hand (Links the front left to the front right) adjust for alignment for toe in and toe out.

3. On a Nissan Patrol the only adjustment you have at an alignment is Toe via the Tie rod (Behind the diff). If your Caster is out then Caster bushes are required but this won't be so on a Standard height vehicle.

4. Camber is only adjustable by fitting an offset bearing race as described.

[mudski]

Interesting..... it seems they are trying to fix the Wrong problem though?

I have the Camber Offset upper Kingpin bearing race and had it for 150,000kms and is a great bit of kit. It is used to address a bit of steering shake (Death Wobbles) and pull to the left. Thats it.

If you can drive down the freeway at 100kms per hour and take your hands off the wheel and it stays true and straight then you don't need the offset camber race. If using the same experiment you drive straight and true and your steering wheel is set at 11oclock but straight and true then your drag link it adjusted incorrectly. In saying that though, what was your first problem that you were trying to fix with the drag link? Why did they say you needed that? I don't get what they were trying to fix using an adjustable drag link on a vehicle without a lift? Seems odd.

The adjustable Drag link specifically joins the steering box with the front left hub, that is all it does. the adjustment is specifically for adjusting the steering wheel to the 12oclock position. It is a Drag link so it is dragged by the steering box to operate the steering rack which is the left hub, tie rod (Behind the diff) and right hub.

If your steering wheel was out of alignment because of an impact with a gutter or something then its a different problem all together and may have slipped on the spline and needs to be removed and repositioned.


I just re-read your original post.
1 The Drag link actually performs No Part of a Wheel alignment, it is simply to realign the steering wheel to 12.

2 The Tie rod on the other hand (Links the front left to the front right) adjust for alignment for toe in and toe out. On a Nissan Patrol the only adjustment you have at an alignment is Toe via the Tie rod (Behind the diff).

3 If your Caster is out then Caster bushes are required but this won't be so on a Standard height vehicle.

4 Camber is only adjustable by fitting an offset bearing race as described.
I made i a bit easier to see the differences Darren....
TBH I haven't read the whole post haha! It seem the op had multiple issues. Steering wheel not centre, fixed with an adjustable drag link, and the car pulling to the left. As Darren has, those offset upper bearings will do it. Or the RTC. Lol. With the RTC your steering is a little heavier though due to the large spring on it. I've used one for four years and no issues here.

[Addy]

Thanks for putting it into point mudski


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[Addy]

Interesting..... it seems they are trying to fix the Wrong problem though?

I have the Camber Offset upper Kingpin bearing race and had it for 150,000kms and is a great bit of kit. It is used to address a bit of steering shake (Death Wobbles) and pull to the left. Thats it.

If you can drive down the freeway at 100kms per hour and take your hands off the wheel and it stays true and straight then you don't need the offset camber race. If using the same experiment you drive straight and true and your steering wheel is set at 11oclock but straight and true then your drag link it adjusted incorrectly. In saying that though, what was your first problem that you were trying to fix with the drag link? Why did they say you needed that? I don't get what they were trying to fix using an adjustable drag link on a vehicle without a lift? Seems odd.

The adjustable Drag link specifically joins the steering box with the front left hub, that is all it does. the adjustment is specifically for adjusting the steering wheel to the 12oclock position. It is a Drag link so it is dragged by the steering box to operate the steering rack which is the left hub, tie rod (Behind the diff) and right hub.

If your steering wheel was out of alignment because of an impact with a gutter or something then its a different problem all together and may have slipped on the spline and needs to be removed and repositioned.


I just re-read your original post.

1. The Drag link actually performs No Part of a Wheel alignment, it is simply to realign the steering wheel to 12.

2. The Tie rod on the other hand (Links the front left to the front right) adjust for alignment for toe in and toe out.

3. On a Nissan Patrol the only adjustment you have at an alignment is Toe via the Tie rod (Behind the diff). If your Caster is out then Caster bushes are required but this won't be so on a Standard height vehicle.

4. Camber is only adjustable by fitting an offset bearing race as described.

If this were yahoo answers id give you 100% for best explanation! Thanks again

I basically thought from bit of research that a drag link was the thing that would fix the steering wheel but evidently I should have investigated further into it but now its all making a bit more sense. Basically no mechanical background atm but slowly learning. Atleast now i have it for when I lift the patrol.

I was testing it the whole time driving home from work today and any time i let go on the wheel it would move to 11 oclock but the car was not true and straight it would continue moving left until i grab the wheel and moved it to straighten it up.

So whats my best plan of attack to fix this issue after i lift the car because happy to leave it till then. (Btw only intend of doing 2" lift)



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[dom14]

If it pulls to the left on a dead flat stretch then you can call it pulling.
Most roads aren't that flat but angled slightly towards the left on left side.
A straight freeway is probably the best place to find out whether the vehicle is pulling to the left or right when the
steering wheel is let go.
It's not always a sign of a wheel alignment issue.
If the tyres are wearing out unevenly from outside, inside or middle, then it IS a wheel alignment issue.
Pressure differences between two front tyres, some of manufacturing defects tyres come with but you can see, etc etc
can cause the vehicle to pull right. Structural issues can also cause it, for example hitting a rock etc.
Even after correcting such issues by straightening up or replacing the bent suspension, steering part and aligning the
wheels, the pulling to the side still can continue.
Most important thing to be aware that the tyres don't wear out unevenly.
I think many 4WDs can end up pulling to the side a bit after rugged off road use over the years.

Sorry, I had to correct the below line(already corrected above).

If the tyres are wearing out unevenly from outside, inside or middle, then it IS a wheel alignment issue.

[MudRunnerTD]

If this were yahoo answers id give you 100% for best explanation! Thanks again

I basically thought from bit of research that a drag link was the thing that would fix the steering wheel but evidently I should have investigated further into it but now its all making a bit more sense. Basically no mechanical background atm but slowly learning. Atleast now i have it for when I lift the patrol.

I was testing it the whole time driving home from work today and any time i let go on the wheel it would move to 11 oclock but the car was not true and straight it would continue moving left until i grab the wheel and moved it to straighten it up.

So whats my best plan of attack to fix this issue after i lift the car because happy to leave it till then. (Btw only intend of doing 2" lift)



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So its pulling to the left? If that is the case and yourToe In is set correctly then id be looking at the Offset king pin race to deal. With Camber on the left side,

[Addy]

So its pulling to the left? If that is the case and yourToe In is set correctly then id be looking at the Offset king pin race to deal. With Camber on the left side,

Awesome thanks heaps mate. Is that the thing commonly referred to as castor/caster correction?


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[MudRunnerTD]

Awesome thanks heaps mate. Is that the thing commonly referred to as castor/caster correction?


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No its a Camber adjustment done on the King Pin bearing rather than a Caster adjustment done on the radius arm bushes. Camber puts a slight lean on the left side wheel to counter the effect of the camber on Australian roads. I think i added a 1 degree adjustment (Not much but changed the World)

Read this fitting instruction as it explains a fair bit

http://safetsteer.com.au/portal/portal/content/view/89/141/

and here is the kit i fired to the left side King pin

http://safetsteer.com.au/portal/content/view/192/338/

[Addy]

No its a Camber adjustment done on the King Pin bearing rather than a Caster adjustment done on the radius arm bushes. Camber puts a slight lean on the left side wheel to counter the effect of the camber on Australian roads. I think i added a 1 degree adjustment (Not much but changed the World)

Read this fitting instruction as it explains a fair bit

http://safetsteer.com.au/portal/portal/content/view/89/141/

and here is the kit i fired to the left side King pin

http://safetsteer.com.au/portal/content/view/192/338/

Thanks again for the info, gave it a quick read but not sure if it was in english, made no sense to a novice like myself.

Which professional trade/shop would be best to fix this for me if i wanted it done?


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