Struggling with Clutch

[chewindust]

Hi guys,
I'm hoping someone can help give me some ideas of what else I can check. A quick background on what I have done concerning the clutch over about 3 or so years. Put clutch in and no pressure to return, searched and found slave cylinder to be the problem. Replaced slave cylinder. Clutch started slipping then wouldn't work so I put clutch kit in. Then discovered piston in master cylinder not returning so I replaced the master cylinder. Put foot on clutch and it went all the way to the floor without engaging clutch. Found a split in one of the rubber lines near the slave cylinder so I replaced that. Now the problem is that the peddle will go all the way to the floor but won't spring back. The clutch is engaging and I can change gears but I have to bring peddle back with my foot. I have checked the slave cylinder and it seems ok although I have noticed I can push the clutch fork to the slave cylinder with my hand. I don't think I had ever done that before and I thought it should be hard to do that. I also looked at the old master cylinder and when I replaced it I am still using the same push rod that comes out from the booster. What else can I look at?

[pearcey]

G`Day mate.
Pushing the fork back to the slave is ok as the slave is non adjustable.
Does the pedal return with the engine turned off and the boaster bled of vacuum.

[Turtle_au]

Isn't there a spring in the pedal assembly to bring the pedal back up?


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[dom14]

Isn't there a spring in the pedal assembly to bring the pedal back up?


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That's what I was thinking.
Usually there is a spring. I wonder if somehow that's popped out of place?!

[chewindust]

Thanks guys, I checked that spring on the pedal and it is fine. I also pushed the pedal before I started it and it was coming back a bit then would stop and then pop all the way back. But that only happened a couple times and then I had to help it. When I started it I pumped the pedal a couple times and it came back at first then didn't come back again. I have examined the vacuum hoses and I remember replacing a couple but have seen a couple hoses that definitely need replacing so I will go in and get some hoses today. It probably hasn't helped that the old girl has been sitting for a fair while.

[dom14]

Thanks guys, I checked that spring on the pedal and it is fine. I also pushed the pedal before I started it and it was coming back a bit then would stop and then pop all the way back. But that only happened a couple times and then I had to help it. When I started it I pumped the pedal a couple times and it came back at first then didn't come back again. I have examined the vacuum hoses and I remember replacing a couple but have seen a couple hoses that definitely need replacing so I will go in and get some hoses today. It probably hasn't helped that the old girl has been sitting for a fair while.

Yeah, but I'm not sure vacuum leaks in the booster or the vacuum lines can produce those symptoms.
I would think the pedal would be tad harder without vacuum assist.
Ideally a malfunctioning vacuum booster shouldn't affect the pedal return, I reckon.

I think something else is going on with your clutch. Be it, air bubbles trapped inside, master pump or slave pump issues or the actual clutch getting jammed inside somehow.

[chewindust]

Well after replacing the vacuum hoses. Nothing changed. So I got in under the dash to have a look at the top of the pedal to check the spring or even see anything else that might be out of the ordinary and I could not see anything broken damaged or even leaking. I followed the line and cannot see any leaks there either. I'm going to get a mechanic to have a look at why she won't go past 80 on the road and I'll see if they might be able to find the issue for the clutch too.

[mudski]

GQ or GU? Sounds like a vacuum issue. The GQs have a rebuildable clutch booster, a rebuild kit is available for them, the GU's don't.

[pearcey]

Thanks guys, I checked that spring on the pedal and it is fine. I also pushed the pedal before I started it and it was coming back a bit then would stop and then pop all the way back. But that only happened a couple times and then I had to help it. When I started it I pumped the pedal a couple times and it came back at first then didn't come back again. I have examined the vacuum hoses and I remember replacing a couple but have seen a couple hoses that definitely need replacing so I will go in and get some hoses today. It probably hasn't helped that the old girl has been sitting for a fair while.
Was this happening before or after the clutch replacement?
If it was there before , have a look at the clutch fork as it may be cracked or worn on the pivot. All so check the pivot adjustment.

[dom14]

GQ or GU? Sounds like a vacuum issue. The GQs have a rebuildable clutch booster, a rebuild kit is available for them, the GU's don't.

TB and TD42's come with a clutch booster obviously, but RB30 doesn't have a vacuum assisted clutch booster. Not sure about the RD28.

[chewindust]

Thanks guys.

Mudski and Dom14 my troll is a GU with zd30 motor. I asked Nissan how much a booster unit is some time ago and I can't remember the exact price he gave me but I remember it being a bit too pricey for me at the time. I will double check everything again first before I go for that.

Pearcey, This wasn't happening before the clutch replacement but I will look at the fork and see if I can see any damage to it. Can you tell me where I would find the adjustment? I haven't seen anywhere on this clutch that I can adjust. I did see a piece that I don't know what it is or it's function. It is mounted on the firewall and is connected to the fluid lines. On the top end it comes straight from the master cylinder in a small line, then comes out the other side in a slightly bigger line that goes down to the slave cylinder. From looking at it I would assume that it has something to do with adjusting the pressure in the lines because I would think that you don't need as much pressure in the line to push the fork as you do to push the piston in the master cylinder.

[mudski]

Thanks guys.

Mudski and Dom14 my troll is a GU with zd30 motor. I asked Nissan how much a booster unit is some time ago and I can't remember the exact price he gave me but I remember it being a bit too pricey for me at the time. I will double check everything again first before I go for that.

Pearcey, This wasn't happening before the clutch replacement but I will look at the fork and see if I can see any damage to it. Can you tell me where I would find the adjustment? I haven't seen anywhere on this clutch that I can adjust. I did see a piece that I don't know what it is or it's function. It is mounted on the firewall and is connected to the fluid lines. On the top end it comes straight from the master cylinder in a small line, then comes out the other side in a slightly bigger line that goes down to the slave cylinder. From looking at it I would assume that it has something to do with adjusting the pressure in the lines because I would think that you don't need as much pressure in the line to push the fork as you do to push the piston in the master cylinder.

I'd be looking at the clutch pressure plate now. The diaphragm where the thrust bearing and carrier sit on. Sounds like there is no tension there to push back the clutch fork after you put your foot on the clutch. What brand clutch kit was put in?

[chewindust]

I'd be looking at the clutch pressure plate now. The diaphragm where the thrust bearing and carrier sit on. Sounds like there is no tension there to push back the clutch fork after you put your foot on the clutch. What brand clutch kit was put in?

I'm fairly positive that everything went ok when I put the clutch kit in. I have barely driven it since doing the clutch kit. Might have done maybe 100 ks. The brand is Exedy and it was only a few days ago I read on here about someones clutch failing after 20k kms.

[mudski]

I'm fairly positive that everything went ok when I put the clutch kit in. I have barely driven it since doing the clutch kit. Might have done maybe 100 ks. The brand is Exedy and it was only a few days ago I read on here about someones clutch failing after 20k kms.

Exedy are a good brand, but even good quality can fail.

To me your symptoms point to pressure plate failure. Or, the thrust bearing carrier, the part that slides on the nose cone of the gearbox, wasn't lubed right and its sticking, or the carrier is just worn out and its not sliding neatly and there for grabbing on the nose cone when the clutch is released.

[dom14]

I'm fairly positive that everything went ok when I put the clutch kit in. I have barely driven it since doing the clutch kit. Might have done maybe 100 ks. The brand is Exedy and it was only a few days ago I read on here about someones clutch failing after 20k kms.

I've heard of few incidents where a brand new clutch mechanically failed in no time, be it forks or spring fingers or something else.
I get a feeling yours might be a such issue. Just make sure to rule out all other problems in the hydraulic system before pulling out the clutch again, as it is a bastard of a job to pull the clutch out.

[mudnut]

I've only done just on 30K of mostly easy highway driving on an Exedy clutch, and it really doesn't feel like there's a lot of meat left on it. I wonder if someone has been slipping cheap knock offs into the Aussie market.

[dom14]

I've only done just on 30K of mostly easy highway driving on an Exedy clutch, and it really doesn't feel like there's a lot of meat left on it. I wonder if someone has been slipping cheap knock offs into the Aussie market.

Exedy is a locally made brand, isn't it? Or am I wrong about that? Everything is made in China these days, so you never know.
Many "proudly Australian" brands can be like Harvey Norman "locally made" furniture.

[mudnut]

In the past, I sourced some Timken wheel bearings that failed dismally in a few thousand ks. The replacement Timkens lasted many years, so make of that what you will.

I know that fake medications are sometimes discovered in various parts of the world, even vital ones for sufferers of heart conditions.

I was happy that an Exedy clutch was put in when the gearbox was changed out. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts, after the others' experiences. I am not saying fakes have been swapped in , but it is just conjecture at this point.

http://www.exedy.com.au/faq

[dom14]

In the past, I sourced some Timken wheel bearings that failed dismally in a few thousand ks. The replacement Timkens lasted many years, so make of that what you will.

I know that fake medications are sometimes discovered in various parts of the world, even vital ones for sufferers of heart conditions.

I was happy that an Exedy clutch was put in when the gearbox was changed out. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts, after the others' experiences. I am not saying fakes have been swapped in , but it is just conjecture at this point.

http://www.exedy.com.au/faq


I'm yet to replace wheel bearings or the clutch on mine. They've been going for six years now.
I've repacked the bearings couple of times. I thought the clutch was bad when I bought the vehicle, but it's still going fine.
Dunno whether it's still the original clutch or a replacement.

Fake Exedy clutches are probably not likely, but you never know.

There're lot of after market dodgy bearings out there for sure, including fake ones.

[mudnut]

If you read the answer to the: How can I tell if my clutch is an Exedy product? , question on their website, they acknowledge the fact that there may be fake ones available from online sources such as Ebay, and to obtain an Excedy clutch through bona fide suppliers.

I will bleed the clutch and see if it helps as there is bugger all movement between engaged and the top of pedal travel.

[dom14]

If you read the answer to the: How can I tell if my clutch is an Exedy product? , question on their website, they acknowledge the fact that there may be fake ones available from online sources such as Ebay, and to obtain an Excedy clutch through bona fide suppliers.

I will bleed the clutch and see if it helps as there is bugger all movement between engaged and the top of pedal travel.

Hmmmm..........that's bad news. Glad to know that, so I can be careful about ebay purchases.
I hope they are not exaggerating to boost the sales from shop front suppliers, but it's generally better to purchase a vital part like bearings, clutch etc from the bona fide supplier, 'cos they are not something you wanna fail in the middle of nowhere.

So, if I guess correctly, it's quite probable some fleabay sellers import Exedy brand clutch kits from China printed & labelled as genuine Exedy clutches?!!
I guessing it shouldn't be too hard for the Exedy to pick one or two of those fake Exedy clutch kit sellers and sue them!?

[mudski]

I've only done just on 30K of mostly easy highway driving on an Exedy clutch, and it really doesn't feel like there's a lot of meat left on it. I wonder if someone has been slipping cheap knock offs into the Aussie market.

Thats normal Craig. Ive had 3 clutches in my Patrol, lol, and all have done this. Its just they dont slip, like the old clutches did.

[dom14]

Thats normal Craig. Ive had 3 clutches in my Patrol, lol, and all have done this. Its just they dont slip, like the old clutches did.

And I've only had one clutch for over six years, and it was already there. :)
When I bought it I insisted the clutch was bad, and the guy wanted 1k to have a new clutch installed, so I didn't worry about it.
It's still going. :)

[chewindust]

Thanks everyone for all your help. I have fixed the problem with my clutch issues. I rang up my local Nissan parts shop and explained it to him and he said it sounded like the booster was the issue. I decided not to spend over 1500 dollars for a new booster and got a second hand one for 120. After putting in this booster the clutch is now working as it should. Hope this helps anyone else having the same issues.

[Deano2506]

I'd be thinking it's something wrong with the clutch itself.
Maybe worn a groove on the gearbox shaft or that sort of thing.
The force from the clutch should be ample to return the pedal

[chewindust]

Thanks Deano but after putting another booster in I got from the wreckers, I have not had the same issues with the clutch.

[mudnut]

Glad it was a cheap, easy fix.