Going solar

[Covo71]

I have been looking around and have decided to leave fridge in the car and mount the arkpak permantly as well. I have been looking ideas of what to do. I am thinking of getting a redarc bcdc1225, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/REDARC-BCDC1225-DUAL-BATTERY-SYSTEM-DC-TO-DC-CHARGER-MPPT-SOLAR-80A-RELAY-KIT/302160400024?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3D81e4e903d2cd48faa82 71988e9d84333%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D9%26rkt%3D30%2 6sd%3D262464932603.
Is the price good for the kit or worth still looking around? Or is there a different direction I could or should be looking at?
Cheers for any input.

[GQtdauto]

I'm a cheap barstard but I really like this unit over my elcheapo , I have a 40 watt solar panel which is regulated by a cheap regulator sending power to crank battery side of dual battery solenoid .
While mine works ok and can keep fridge running and cold I need more solar now that I run two gel cell spare batteries and I like the specs on this unit only I do have a battery isolator already .
71228

[GQtdauto]

As for price a good Mppt controller and a dual battery solenoid will cost about that , but this unit has a lot more functions and is pretty shmick imo.

[stevemc181]

I'd be going for the latest model from Redarc called the BCDC1225D


The REDARC BCDC1225D is a 12V 25A In-vehicle DC to DC battery charger. It features the next generation in REDARC In-vehicle charging technology, charging from Solar and DC inputs simultaneously. Featuring a Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT) solar regulator, the BCDC1225D will charge from both solar and the alternator simultaneously. And, with built in 'Green Power Priority' it will select solar charging first, meaning less load on the alternator.

I have discussed this unit with Redarc as I am chasing similar, but in their 40 amp version (BCDC1240D), which is due for release sometime in the 2nd quarter 2017. There is no need for the changeover relay with this unit, so wiring is also much easier. These units also have a lithium charging profile available which is not available on the BCDC1225.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/REDARC-BCDC1225D-DUAL-BATTERY-ISOLATOR-SYSTEM-DC-TO-DC-MPPT-SOLAR-AGM-amp-LITHIUM-/302153822444

Details on the unit can be found here:
https://www.redarc.com.au/dual-input-25a-in-vehicle-dc-battery-charger

[threedogs]

Where is the Arkpak being fitted, shorten one of the drawers or recess into the Qrt panel.
You could use 50amp anderson plugs for the Battery pack so it can be used elsewhere
around the camp or down by the river if need be.
I think 80 amps may be to big,,happy to be wrong though,,lol

Just reading the stats and says its good for temps to 80C
so perfect for under bonner installation.???
How hot does under bonnet temps get to has anyone measured this @MB

[GQtdauto]

I think the unit that will do lithium batteries as well would be the way to go .

[Cuppa]

The Dual seems to be a small step toward what Redarc should have produced in the first place, i.e. a charger which can accept input from both sources at the same time without needing a separate relay to switch between them. The ‘Green power priority’ is imho a piece of marketing hype.What is disappointing is that they have persisted with not including battery temperature compensation, & as a result continue with what I consider to be a rather crude form of protection by limiting float voltage to 13.3v, when most battery manufacturers recommend 13.6v to 13.8v.

I’m also unsure what to think about the suitability of the charger for LiFePo4 batteries based on the understanding I’ve gained from a mate who has been experimenting with lithiums for in vehicle/rv use for longer than Redarc, & who has now established a design & installation business for in vehicle lithium set ups.

Redarc state in their brochure
"When the lithium profile commences charging the auxiliary battery it will charge in a constant current stage, this stage maintains a constant current until the battery voltage reaches its
set point. The lithium profile will then move to constant voltage stage which keeps the battery at 100% charge”. There remains a great deal of debate in ‘lithium circles’ as to what the cut off set point should be, & how it should be monitored. Most agree that monitoring individual cell voltages is the wisest method. Redarc fail to say what their set point for cut off is & there is no mention of the unit having any adjustability for this, & their connection diagrams show no individual cell monitoring, in fact no monitoring at all other than total battery voltage. This leaves the possibility for charging to continue if/when cells get out of balance, which as I believe is bad news for lithiums. Furthermore, Lithiums which are not being regularly cycled are apparently bed kept at around 60% state of charge. Unlike Lead acid batteries (wet/AGM/Gel) keeping them constantly at 100% when not in regular use apparently reduces their lifespan. Most folk would not be using them 365 days a year & thus lithium charger set ups need some user adjustability.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d buy one, but not for lithiums & I would be surprised if any lithium installers would recommend these chargers.

My AGM batteries, on a BCDC1240 are now about 5.5 years old & looking good, but have not been worked hard yet. The next 5 years will tell whether the low float voltage & lack of temp compensation has had an impact or not. When they do eventually need replacing I’ll look at Lithiums, but there is a good chance there will be a newer battery technology by then.

[stevemc181]

I've been running a LifeP04 dual battery for 3 years using a Redarc BCDC1225-LV as the only charger. Obviously redarc refused to support the charger being run in this way due to no lifepo4 profile, but I decided to experiment early on as the charge profile is close enough for what I need. The only issue I've had is the fact that I need to disconnect the charger every few days to force it into boost mode as the voltage doesn't run low enough for it to detect boost mode is required so I need to force it manually. (Typically my battery is still at 12.9volts or so when it is 90% discharged) I am now looking at either getting rid of the current Redarc altogether and just charging using an Isolator type set-up or moving to the BCDC-1240D when it's released. 25amps is just too slow at times for me to get a fully charged battery. 40 amps with simultaneous solar would suit me fine, there is nothing in the new Redarcs Lithium charging profile that would concern me.

Still early days for my 100a/h LifePo4 at 3 years, but she is still as good as the day I bought it, time will tell I guess. I don't know of any charger that has individual cell monitoring. My battery has it's own BMS attached for cell monitoring and I also use a backup LV/HV shut-off, I also use a Victron BMV-702 to give me an idea of whats going on with the battery, this has an option for temp monitoring, but I've never felt the need to be bothered with it. There is a lot of scare mongering out there regarding LifePo4, that's why I decided to investigate it myself.

[GQtdauto]

Changed my mind about lithium batteries now and will stick with gel cell , bound to get cheaper as lithium takes off .

[Cuppa]

there is nothing in the new Redarcs Lithium charging profile that would concern me.

Can you point me to where Redarc spell out what their charging profile actually is please?



Still early days for my 100a/h LifePo4 at 3 years, but she is still as good as the day I bought it, time will tell I guess. I don't know of any charger that has individual cell monitoring. My battery has it's own BMS attached for cell monitoring and I also use a backup LV/HV shut-off, I also use a Victron BMV-702 to give me an idea of whats going on with the battery, this has an option for temp monitoring, but I've never felt the need to be bothered with it. There is a lot of scare mongering out there regarding LifePo4, that's why I decided to investigate it myself.

I agree that there has been a great deal of scaremongering, unnecessarily so. I haven’t gone to LiFePo4 yet, but hold no qualms about doing so when my current batteries have served their time.
Don’t know what BMS you are using or how you have your LV/HV shut off set, but you do have them. Redarc appear (to me) to be marketing their charger as being for lithium charging without mentioning any BMS or other battery protection. As I understand it pretty much any ‘dumb’ charger could be used to do the actual charging provided there was a BMS & HV/LV disconnect, settable by the user? The Victron monitor is certainly popular, especially because of Victron’s willingness to be open about their product’s connectivity. Another friend is reasonably advanced in his efforts to use Arduino technology in conjunction with the Victron to manage his lithiums.

Re. Temperature monitoring - can’t see any real need for that either, but I am very much in favour of temperature compensated charging at least for lead acid’s. I believe it to be important for maximising battery lifespan

[stevemc181]

Can you point me to where Redarc spell out what their charging profile actually is please?


Not sure what info you are after regarding the profile, but the info I wanted is in the manual here: The LifePo4's get a max 14.6v and no float voltage https://www.redarc.com.au/Content/Images/uploaded/Manuals/BCDC%20Dual%20Input%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf

The issue with most of the DC-DC chargers on the market that are not LifePo4 specific is that they simply cant handle the constant current demand when charging and will overheat and shut down or fail. LifePo4 will pull every amp you can throw at it out of the charger, some simply can't keep up with the demand. I know the Redarc I am using gets bloody hot when I work it hard, so I am surpised it's still going. There are a few LifePo4 DC-DC chargers beginning to appear now, Sterling BB1260, Enerdrive DC2DC, GSL Electronics, Redarc, these are all pretty similar in that none of them have individual cell management capability. I use a BMS from EV Power in conjunction with individual cell balancing modules as in the picture of my battery below. My HV/LV will shut off supply at 14.7v and LV at 11.6v (User settable) This is really only a back up in case the BMS fails to do it's job.

http://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh486/stevemc181/Paj%20Mods/New%20Pajero%20Mods/IMG_1946_zpscce0aeab.jpg

[Cuppa]

Not sure what info you are after regarding the profile, but the info I wanted is in the manual here: The LifePo4's get a max 14.6v and no float voltage https://www.redarc.com.au/Content/Images/uploaded/Manuals/BCDC%20Dual%20Input%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf



Thanks. I guess I have to eat my words. In that link Redarc are more specific in that they state a BMS is required.

“CAUTION When using the Battery Charger to charge a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery, only batteries that feature an inbuilt battery management system featuring inbuilt under and over voltage protection and cell balancing are suitable”.

I had thought that when they referred to the ‘battery set point’ to change to constant voltage that they were referring to some sort of crude on/off BMS based only on the average voltage across the cells. I guess I was wrong. Nevertheless I still cannot find what it needs to ‘see’ in order to change to constant voltage (i.e. how it determines the LiFePo4’s are ‘full’ (or ‘full enough’). I obviously don’t understand how the Battery Management System works in conjunction with the charger if that set point is not user adjustable as I was of the impression that the BMS controlled the switching on & off of the constant current? Can you enlighten me?

[stevemc181]

Thanks. I guess I have to eat my words. In that link Redarc are more specific in that they state a BMS is required.

“CAUTION When using the Battery Charger to charge a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery, only batteries that feature an inbuilt battery management system featuring inbuilt under and over voltage protection and cell balancing are suitable”.

I had thought that when they referred to the ‘battery set point’ to change to constant voltage that they were referring to some sort of crude on/off BMS based only on the average voltage across the cells. I guess I was wrong. Nevertheless I still cannot find what it needs to ‘see’ in order to change to constant voltage (i.e. how it determines the LiFePo4’s are ‘full’ (or ‘full enough’). I obviously don’t understand how the Battery Management System works in conjunction with the charger if that set point is not user adjustable as I was of the impression that the BMS controlled the switching on & off of the constant current? Can you enlighten me?

Sorry, I'm not fully up to speed on it myself, but remember reading somewhere that the setpoint is the nominal voltage, which is usually around 13.2v or 13.3v with LifePo4. The charger then reverts to constant voltage and slowly raises it to the chargers max voltage setting (14.6v in this case) My BMS basically monitors individual cells and will bleed off from one cell to another if required or shut off a cell that is getting over charged etc. It does nothing regarding CC/CV switching of the charger as far as I am aware. The manual for my BMS (BCUPPAK) can be found here: https://ev-power.com.au/IMG/pdf/BCU-PPAK-4C-manual.pdf This may have some info of interest?

[Covo71]

Thanks Steve, for an extra $70 just taking away the extra wiring is worth it. Champion.
That is definitely the way to go. I think for what I want the 25a will do the trick. I think going the 40a version is going to be overkill for me.

[Covo71]

Hi TD,
I am going to mount the Arkpak in the car for now and later on put second battery in the back so I can take the Arkpak out and use for lighting etc. I was taking the fridge out of the car when we went camping but getting to old and fat for that.

[Covo71]

I was just going to get a foldout panel and only use when we go camping but now thinking of mounting on the roof. Would it need to be angled up or sit flat on the racks? Just a bit worried of damage if angled up.
I was thinking of it sitting flat for day to day driving but hinging it so I could prop it up when camping.

[Covo71]

It is lucky I am bald Cuppa as you would not have seen my hair move when that went way over my head. lol

[GQtdauto]

I was just going to get a foldout panel and only use when we go camping but now thinking of mounting on the roof. Would it need to be angled up or sit flat on the racks? Just a bit worried of damage if angled up.
I was thinking of it sitting flat for day to day driving but hinging it so I could prop it up when camping.

Flat is ok , had no problem on the caravan but did have 600 watt , the one on the front of my GQ is angled and has been on for about a year without damage from stones etc , I want a panel that's the width of the roof rack and about 300-400 mm wide .
I would put this on the same angle but make up a mounting bracket that flips back if I hit a tree branch.

[stevemc181]

Thanks Steve, for an extra $70 just taking away the extra wiring is worth it. Champion.
That is definitely the way to go. I think for what I want the 25a will do the trick. I think going the 40a version is going to be overkill for me.

No Worries, I like the idea of not requiring the changeover relay. I have fairly short runs to work each day, so can't leave the fridge on 24/7 as the battery doesn't get enough charge. I think I'll also end up with a roofrack mounted solar panel so it can charge up while I'm parked in the open.

[Hodge]

Yeah I'm very interested in this new unit without the relay. The relay adds a whole lot of new spaghetti wiring which isn't hard but so hard to keep neat and hidden...Might have a look and invest.

Sent from Note 4

[threedogs]

Hi TD,
I am going to mount the Arkpak in the car for now and later on put second battery in the back so I can take the Arkpak out and use for lighting etc. I was taking the fridge out of the car when we went camping but getting to old and fat for that.

What Ive done to my Patrol is I pulled out the passenger seat behind the driver
and made a platform for the Engel, No need for over priced drop down fridge slides.
Mine is a 40 ltr any bigger you may struggle with the lid fully open. I have some Engel hinges
from years ago, the boss of Two-zone posted me a set so I could hinge my engel the other way..
Ive also installed a LED light that comes on when the lid is moved, thats fused to the dead side of the power fuse
Best mod Ive even done, even made one for my ice box [Baileys]

Flat is fine ideally you want them facing the sun and then follow the sun during the day

[Covo71]

Not much chance of taking out the back seat with a 4 & ar old. I have a 65lt Waeco so it is still quite high even if at the floor level. Would love a drop down but can't afford a second mortgage to get one. Not sure I can just $800+ For one.

[stevemc181]

Just sold my MSA drop slide as we found it a pain in the arse to use, and think the fridge is much better off down low. It was only the DS40 small drop slide, but it weighed 30kg's, so they aren't light either. I'm now in the process of modifying a 2nd hand set of ORS stacked drawers with the fridge slide down low to suit our needs.
On the longer trips we remove the 2nd row seats and set another 38litre engel up on the passenger side.

[threedogs]

I'm a cheap barstard but I really like this unit over my elcheapo , I have a 40 watt solar panel which is regulated by a cheap regulator sending power to crank battery side of dual battery solenoid .
While mine works ok and can keep fridge running and cold I need more solar now that I run two gel cell spare batteries and I like the specs on this unit only I do have a battery isolator already .
71228

Im going to mount my 10watt panel on the roof,[flat] do I just mount on of those mppt regs 30a
in the engine bay. Would that set up work,

[GQtdauto]

A whole 10 watt ! Geez you might blow something up with that .
My reg is an elcheapo mppt on the car panel , my folding and 200 watt fixed on camper are the cheaper pms and I have no trouble with them at all .
As a matter of fact I find that they're programable and give useful information about voltage and amps etc .
I'll get a photo tomorrow of how mines set up and post it here for you , I'm no expert but do know the 250 watt solar rule per battery is spot on for regular use but you can get away with less for infrequent use .
For the double spare battery setup I have in the GQ I can charge via alternator , higher amp than OEM or 40 watt panel which keeps fridge going if stuff cold going in and fridge cold to start with .
But that was with old single lead acid deep cycle battery that was on its way out , two new gel cells should easy Peasy keep fridge cold , can also charge from 200 watt solar on camper trailer as I've made it Anderson plug .
I have an Anderson plug front and rear on GQ so if I need to connect solar panel either portable or trailer camper one it gives me a bit of room to move .
I have connected wires for charge from solar panel to main battery side of red arc battery isolator , not sure if this was a good idea but so far it seems to be improving crank battery charge , I can also switch between batteries if my crank gets flat for any reason .
So if I'm hooked up to camper I can use power from four gel cells to charge my crank battery if I want to , cable size is important and mine is bigger than needed for this even though a sparky poo pooed the extra large cable size saying it was a waste of money and not needed but if I ever want to I can hit a switch and start the car by using power from the back be it two or four batteries .
10 watt would be ok for maintenance charge but not for regular use in my opinion .

[GQtdauto]

Forgot about the amps my elcheapo mppt is ok for 8 amps the others are 25 ish from memory so 30 would give you room to adapt later .

[Cuppa]

I was just going to get a foldout panel and only use when we go camping but now thinking of mounting on the roof. Would it need to be angled up or sit flat on the racks? Just a bit worried of damage if angled up.
I was thinking of it sitting flat for day to day driving but hinging it so I could prop it up when camping.

Mounted flat you will get approx 70% of rated output. (Eg. 120w panel will give a max of around 7 amps. 120w divided by 12 volts = 10 amps, multiplied by 70% = 7amps. Easier approximation using nominal voltage than actual voltage & gives a close enough result to be practical as a rule of thumb). Angling it on a hinge will get you a little bit more but only if you keep it pointing to the sun. For my money it's not worth doing the hinging, moving the car to follow the sun is as much, if not more hassle than moving portable panels around. If you can, just go a bit bigger panel to compensate & mount flat ..... or better still on a very slight angle to assist water run off.

Funnily enough I got asked if the forward sloping panel I have over my cab (I reckon it assists in allowing branches to brush over it, rather than getting caught on it's frrame) had ever been stone chipped today. Answer was no. Had similar on our bus previously & covered 1000's of kms on unsealed outback roads without a problem. If a stray rock ever made it up that high I reckon it would be just as likely to damage a flat mounted panel as it would an angled one.

71238

[GQtdauto]

That's a decent amount of panels cuppa , looks close to 300watt , would like more on GQ but have to keep roof rack flat area free .

[Cuppa]

An advantage of having a pod & just driver & passenger. 425w - 5 x60w + 1 x 125w.

[Covo71]

That's a decent amount of panels cuppa , looks close to 300watt , would like more on GQ but have to keep roof rack flat area free .

I was thinking of just laying flat in the roof rack as it would not need to be working while driving as it would be charging off the alternator and when you stop and unpack it will pick up the sun. Thoughts?

[Cuppa]

I was thinking of just laying flat in the roof rack as it would not need to be working while driving as it would be charging off the alternator and when you stop and unpack it will pick up the sun. Thoughts?

Can be problematic. Some solar panels, only need a small partial shadow to reduce output to almost zero. The rails around the side of the roof rack may cast enough shadow for this to occur. Some panels are much better than others in this respect but you would either have to pay more for them or get lucky. Not a problem if mounted across the top of the roof rack, but makes them higher & raises centre of gravity. Best to either alter the roof rack or use roof bars. It’s a good strategy if you can get the panel(s) un-shadowed. I’m a big fan of roof mounting over portable.

[threedogs]

Only problem I have with roof mounting panels is you need to park in full sun
to get the most out of them . Where normally you would park in the shade.
Being out in the full sun in say 30 plus temps will see your fridge working harder.
Just a thought lol

Cuppa I doubt you'd ever crack a solar panel glass ,from memory they test with
a steel ball bearing from a certain height, they should withstand hurricane stuations.

[DX grunt]

I managed to find a bit of room to put 2 x 120w BP solar panels on the roof. lol

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t525/dxgrunt431/IMG_0824_zpsbqdeokhs.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/dxgrunt431/media/IMG_0824_zpsbqdeokhs.jpg.html)

I've ordered 2 more panels, totalling 160w. Not sure if they're going on the cab or shed roof. I need lights in my shed.

One of the challenges I have found in WA is that most of the time, when I go down south, the sun doesn't really get that hot to completely charge my battery if I have some of my essential equipment working. Around the surrounds and further north, not an issue.

Last trip down south, I cut my losses and bought a generator. With not too much sun or overcast, the battery didn't take politely to my Travel Buddy Marine Oven, 95lt Evakool fridge/freezer and DVD player being used on the same day.

Initially my solar panels were individual panels, then I had them hinged together and used to move them around, as portable. Too much hassle, and susceptible to being damaged putting them in and out of the pod, so I had a bracket made up and now they're permanently mounted.

Yes, I park out in the full sun, but nothing a chair under a shady tree won't fix.

I'm even thinking about installing a third battery.

Rossco

[GQtdauto]

Rossco , heat is your enemy with a solar panel , it reduces the efficiency of the panel , sounds like your running too much 12 volt gear and don't have enough solar to recharge which is why you need the gennie.

[DX grunt]

Rossco , heat is your enemy with a solar panel , it reduces the efficiency of the panel , sounds like your running too much 12 volt gear and don't have enough solar to recharge which is why you need the gennie.

Probably. lol.

I've designed my set up so that I don't have to cart a camper trailer around with me. We're trying different styles of camping and what we carry. At the moment, the wife is pre-cooking our food and it goes into our freezer and once defrosted, is put into the oven for up to 1.5hrs or so, to 're-heat'.

[GQtdauto]

I was thinking of just laying flat in the roof rack as it would not need to be working while driving as it would be charging off the alternator and when you stop and unpack it will pick up the sun. Thoughts?

Panels laying flat while driving in my opinion and from experience still do ok , my camper is not charged from the car but solar when driving , if it's really overcast and I'm in the mountains and batteries are down a bit I'll swap over and plug camper to car .
With Cuppas setup he has a lot of solar so losses from heat and shading still gives him a reasonable charge capacity .
This is the benefit from using as much solar as you can fit .
Modern solar regulators shouldn't overcharge a battery , not many batteries die from overcharging but heaps die from undercharging .

[GQtdauto]

DX grunt , your biggest problem is trying to run the oven , if you run it while driving it would help but they are hungry suckers and drain batteries pretty quick .
We have a dreampot cooker (Aldi version) which we can start cooking a meal in in the morning ,seal it up then have a hot meal at the end of the day , thermal cookers are fantastic .

[DX grunt]

DX grunt , your biggest problem is trying to run the oven , if you run it while driving it would help but they are hungry suckers and drain batteries pretty quick .
We have a dreampot cooker (Aldi version) which we can start cooking a meal in in the morning ,seal it up then have a hot meal at the end of the day , thermal cookers are fantastic .

Yep, understand that. We normally have our main meal at lunch time. That way, the battery has time to recharge before the evening DVD. lol.

Dreampot cooker is another option, but where does it stop? PML.

I've had the suspension upgrade, but now need more floor space in the pod to carry all this stuff.

There are lots and lots of places in WA where you can't light a campfire until 01 April or 01 May. In the mean time, we sit in a circle and pretend. lol.

[GQtdauto]

Only problem when travelling in the hottest months is we don't feel like a hot meal , the thermal cooker was great if cooler weather but wants a piping hot stew or curry when it's over 40 .
Running the oven while driving will certainly help .

[threedogs]

@DXgrunt you could mount your new panels on the doors and then when opened to 90 degree will be flat like the others'
I did that with my othe trailer, worked a treat. lol

[GQtdauto]

Top idea threedogs , just remember they need an air gap.

[threedogs]

Top idea threedogs , just remember they need an air gap.

Im using the 10watt at home in Manland to run the AM/FM MP3 player it keeps my 18ah
golf buggy/Jet ski battery topped up all the time. nice and light in its own small battery box.
Ive found the 18AH battery has enough powder for all my LED flood lights at camp
for a long week end. I have enough lights similar to the Queen Mary but dont use all
as one is more than enough, They are up high Id say about 3mtrs so plenty of light
and not in your face. Plus if need be I can take the battery pack and light poles down
to the river edge if the bite is on. Then I have a 115ah in the patrol and another 100ah in my camper.
Back to the 10watt thats just to keep the start battery moving. lol

Still have an 80 watt and a 120 folding panel if I need them, but pretty much have my
power use under control,,
Sometimes I even use red LED at camp great on tired eyes lol

[Cuppa]

@DXgrunt you could mount your new panels on the doors and then when opened to 90 degree will be flat like the others'
I did that with my othe trailer, worked a treat. lol

Probably ok for 'The Prez' who reputedly never goes off road, but for anyone who drives in places where they tend to get a bit of 'bush pinstriping' the panels mounted in that way would be a liability, just waiting to snag something I reckon.

Re testing of solar panels - yep they are pretty tough items, although they can get smashed. They test them with a standard sized(?) ball bearing dropped from one metre.

Re 'enough solar'. Probably the best advice for anyone considering setting up a solar system from scratch is to consider what equipment they want to run BEFORE even thinking about how much solar/battery/ charger capacity is required, & as part of that process to select equipment which will do the job based on lowest current draw. Pretty much anything which is designed to heat something is, imho, unsuitable for battery use & there are far better alternatives eg. gas/diesel/engine heat. (Surprisingly one exception to this is electric blankets which work well & draw little power - 240v off a small inverter work better than direct 12v). I recall a while back, when getting those Travel Buddy ovens was popular among forum members here, suggesting that they were really only suitable for use whilst driving - ie powered from the alternator.

There are different ways to set up a solar system depending upon intended usage. For me it was essential to have a system which could power us indefinitely without need for mains or generator. To that end we needed enough solar to cover our usage & to return the batteries to 100% full (float) every 24 hour period, (a balanced system) plus to have sufficient battery capacity to sustain us through periods of crap weather without need to break camp & drive. As yet that capacity has never been fully tested, but I estimate we could stay put for 10 days before our battery capacity was getting below 50% & we needed to drive to re-charge. A significant part of achieving that was to be very selective with what equipment we choose to run. The two fridges & the laptop are our biggest power users, but that may change in the near future as I have just been diagnosed with severe sleep apnea & will now have to travel with a CPAP machine which can use 60 to 100 amp hours per night! Thankfully I know folk who travel & who have already been down this path & have directed toward a machine which runs direct off 12v & uses a max of 35Ah per night (or only 10Ah if the humidification isn't needed). Our system will have to be worked a bit harder but should cope ok. (Whether I'll cope with having to become an elephant man crossed with Hannibal Lector every night is another matter!).

[GQtdauto]

Good luck with that Cuppa , I'm dodging the cpap machine like the plague which is probably not a good idea but if I go in my sleep I won't know about it .
As for solar , it's like horsepower and towing something , the heavier the load your towing the more horsepower you need .
Tested my 600 watt system on the van with an overcast sky and gave the numbers to the company I bought them off
( batteries were going flat for some reason ) , they wanted them back because they weren't supposed to work that good under a cloudy sky .
Turns out one battery was shagged the one I didn't replace when I set the dual system up .
You lose a lot of efficiency with solar as you've pointed out Cuppa , depending on conditions .
A panel rated at 100 watt , will only give 100 watt in a controlled lab not in the real world , but a decent set of panels with the right wattage will still give something useful if the day is overcast , how long for depends on usage .

[Cuppa]

probably not a good idea but if I go in my sleep I won't know about it .
.

Getting a bit off topic here but............ it ain't the risk of not waking up which worries me (worries my wife though), it's the waking up with brain damage plus the added risk of stroke.

[GQtdauto]

Oh , hadn't thought of that .

[Covo71]

I am looking at this https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/komodo-12v-160w-folding-portable-solar-panel-kit/?utm_campaign=personalised_category_deals&utm_source=kogan&utm_medium=email. Pretty cheap and putting it with the Redarc bcdc1225d. I looked at the redarc between $500 and $700. Bit pricey for me.

[GQtdauto]

Seems ok , price is at cheaper end of scale for sure , if you do get it make sure you check all connections are ok , many cheap panels have dodgy connections but are easy fixed .
my usual company for getting cheap stuff is called " Sunyee" .

[Cuppa]

I am looking at this https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/komodo-12v-160w-folding-portable-solar-panel-kit/?utm_campaign=personalised_category_deals&utm_source=kogan&utm_medium=email. Pretty cheap and putting it with the Redarc bcdc1225d. I looked at the redarc between $500 and $700. Bit pricey for me.

The online sellers who I know have consistently had good things said about their panels over a number of years are Bit Deals (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_sac=1&_ssn=bit_deals&hash=item53ed7b333f%3Ag%3AbT8AAOSwMVdYEUZH&item=360466559807&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1311.R1.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xso lar.TRS0&_nkw=solar+panel&_sacat=0), who sell 'Rich Solar' panels and Low Energy Developments (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/Solar-Panels/41981/m.html?item=331627464092&hash=item4d3689859c%3Ag%3AJvwAAOSwpDdVAOfh&_ssn=lowenergydevelopments).

I have a Rich Solar panel among other ebay cheapies on my car. The Rich Solar starts charging earlier & stops later in the day than the others & is much more tolerant of shading.

If buying a 'kit', be aware that the cabling will be too thin, & should be used to tie your tomatoes up. Replace it with decent thickness cable - see the chart on this page for sizing the cable (http://hobohome.com/news/?p=581) . The rear of a panel is a far from ideal spot to mount the regulator - you will get more charge into the battery if the regulator is close to the battery, not the panel. They get put on the panel with 'kits' for convenience, not efficiency. Efficiency is important with solar. If you can afford it, treat your batteries to a better regulator than comes with most kits. Something worthwhile doesn't have to cost an arm & a leg, I like Morningstar regs. This one (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Morningstar-SunSaver-10A-12V-Solar-Regulator-/302140906214?hash=item4659005ae6:g:IjUAAOSw7XZXggn f) would would be nicer to your battery than any of the kit supplied ones & would handle 160w of panel. With folding panels for portable use be aware of size & weight. Personally I reckon 120w (2 x60w) is about as big & heavy as it's practical to lift in & out of a vehicle & lug around.

[stevemc181]

Well in the spirit of off topic ;)
This must be the CPAP club! I was also diagnosed with severe sleep apnea 3 weeks ago, and have now joined the ranks of the hose noses! My machine arrives from the USA next week for about $800 cheaper than buying it here. I have been wondering about whether to go with a 12volt power adapter for mine or just buy an inverter, I am now leaning towards an inverter though as I'd prefer to use the humidifier component with it.

[GQtdauto]

Wise advice Cuppa , to add to that what I've done on the folding panel is a small amount of silastic to stop cords from flexing back and forth into the regulator , just a small dab on the wire and fix to the back of the panel .

[Covo71]

I think going just the panel and using the redarc so I can charge off the car as well would be the way to instead of a kit.

[Clunk]

snip

but that may change in the near future as I have just been diagnosed with severe sleep apnea & will now have to travel with a CPAP machine which can use 60 to 100 amp hours per night! Thankfully I know folk who travel & who have already been down this path & have directed toward a machine which runs direct off 12v & uses a max of 35Ah per night (or only 10Ah if the humidification isn't needed). Our system will have to be worked a bit harder but should cope ok. (Whether I'll cope with having to become an elephant man crossed with Hannibal Lector every night is another matter!).

Me too, my reading was 75.4 per hour..... start my 4 week cpap trial on Tuesday hooooray. Let us know how the travel ones go, as I might well have to do the same for longer breaks away

[Cuppa]

Me too, my reading was 75.4 per hour..... start my 4 week cpap trial on Tuesday hooooray. Let us know how the travel ones go, as I might well have to do the same for longer breaks away

Will do Clunk, be a little while yet, I'm booked in for an overnight CPAP titration sleep test thingo next week. I'll be buying from the US. Cheaper, as I don't have health insurance & the model I want isn't available here. It's a later model Devilbiss (https://www.respshop.com/auto-cpap-machines-apap/intellipap-autoadjust-p-1017.html?osCsid=b3055c63c666506bd57dd3546f28cba8) which is a bit quieter, uses less power (does that make this on topic?) & runs on a plain, easily replaced 12v lead & has a reasonably small footprint with humidifier attached (about the same as a 2 litre ice cream tub). There are a couple of smaller travel ones but both have 'issues' I wouldn't be happy about. Some of the others can be plugged into 12v, but actually run at 24v so have to incorporate a voltage converter either in the lead or in the machine, so end up drawing quite a lot more battery power. Check out the power specs of the later Devilbiss in their manual (https://www.respshop.com/manuals/IntelliPAP-2-patient-manual.pdf). A friend has been using one with the humidifier in his Oka for around a year now & is very happy with it.

You're the 2nd person to mention a 4 week trial. The other person mentioned they had had one & that it was free Nothing about that has been said to me. How do you access it?

75.4 AHI is high. Under 5 is normal & over 30 is considered 'Severe'. Mine was 43.1 with the longest apnea lasting 81 seconds. That's a long time to stop breathing for & my overall oxygen saturation levels was 89%, but dropped as low as 78%. This desaturation was described as 'profound'. A couple of people including one who's daughter is a Resmed engineer, tell me I'm well within brain damage territory!
All seems a tad dramatic but I guess it's better to know & have the opportunity to do something about it than to not know.

[stevemc181]

You're the 2nd person to mention a 4 week trial. The other person mentioned they had had one & that it was free Nothing about that has been said to me. How do you access it?

75.4 AHI is high. Under 5 is normal & over 30 is considered 'Severe'. Mine was 43.1 with the longest apnea lasting 81 seconds. That's a long time to stop breathing for & my overall oxygen saturation levels was 89%, but dropped as low as 78%. This desaturation was described as 'profound'. A couple of people including one who's daughter is a Resmed engineer, tell me I'm well within brain damage territory!
All seems a tad dramatic but I guess it's better to know & have the opportunity to do something about it than to not know.

I'm in the 3rd week of a 4 week trial, it wasn't free though. Cost was $400 for the 4 weeks and they give you an option to buy the machine off them at a supposed discount at the end. I have private health but of course it didn't cover the machine. It did cover the Private hospital and sleep study though. I just thought the 4 week trial was all part of it. The same mob that did the sleep study does the 4 week thing, so this set my scam detector off a bit!
My Oxygen levels dropped to 73% with an AHI of 44 and was diagnosed with asthma also (Been a long term smoker, but quit 4 months ago), so scary stuff. I've been a bit disappointed that I haven't seen instant results from the CPAP, but my AHI has now dropped to 0.9 so I guess its working? This getting older sucks knobs! The power use doesn't concern me a lot as we rarely camp more than one night in the same place. if need be, I'll throw another battery in to cover the use.

[threedogs]

Cuppa yes it was directed to "Prez"@DXgrunt only as a suggestion.
DXgrunt knows where and what type of driving he intends to do so
mounting them on the pod doors could work for "him". I did not suggest
every Pod owner to mount them on their doors.

[GQtdauto]

They actually make flat , flexible panels these days which I'm assuming can be mounted without the airgap needed for others .
I have had people ask me if I'm worried about the solar panel getting hit by a stone on the front of the GQ , lucky for me god put a stone magnet in the form of a Windshield in front and so far this has been 100% effective .

[Cuppa]

They actually make flat , flexible panels these days which I'm assuming can be mounted without the airgap needed for others .
I have had people ask me if I'm worried about the solar panel getting hit by a stone on the front of the GQ , lucky for me god put a stone magnet in the form of a Windshield in front and so far this has been 100% effective .

Ha ha, very good! :D

Based on what I’ve been told by others you need to be careful with what ‘flexible' panels you buy if intending on mounting them to a rigid structure. There have been numerous failures with the ’semi flexible’ thin panels which have an aluminium backing - avoid them like the plague. When they get hot the backing expands at a different rate to the cells mounted on it & destroys the panel’s functionality. Those with a plastic back are reported to be better, although it may still be advisable to mount them onto a layer of corflute or similar rather than direct onto a metal surface.
Fully flexible panels (designed to be unrolled for each use ) are a different product.

[threedogs]

Im thinking the "good" flexible panels are better suited to a marine enviroment

[threedogs]

Does anyone know the correct way to fit these connectors.
Some Ive fully soldered but that doesn't seem right.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-x-MC4-Solar-Panel-Connectors-Up-to-6mm-Cable-PV-Photovoltaic-Male-Female-/320985233737?hash=item4abc35f949:g:HVgAAOSw-zxWnC3A

[GQtdauto]

I didn't solder mine on the 600 watt setup , to me they're the same sort of thing as tv coaxial cable .
In future if I come across these buggers you can buy an adaptor from that to Anderson which is the way I will do it .
All my other setups I have just cut those plugs off and joined in longer wires (soldered) then put Anderson on other end and or directly wired into solar regulator.
Haven't had any trouble with this setup yet but now I know they sell adaptors I will use them instead .

[Cuppa]

Does anyone know the correct way to fit these connectors.
Some Ive fully soldered but that doesn't seem right.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-x-MC4-Solar-Panel-Connectors-Up-to-6mm-Cable-PV-Photovoltaic-Male-Female-/320985233737?hash=item4abc35f949:g:HVgAAOSw-zxWnC3A

This article suggests soldering is acceptable if you don’t have the correct crimping tool. Like GQtdauto I’ve generally used anderson plugs, (& thicker cables than the MC4 can accomodate).

http://www.sustainablesolutions.co.nz/article/how-to-fit-mc4-connectors

[threedogs]

I have Anderson but on some thread they said that these MC4 were the go.
Its only for short run of say 5mtrs tops

[GQtdauto]

MC4 connectors are waterproof and are easier for connecting multiple panels together , but for single setups I don't really think it matters which way you go .

[threedogs]

MC4 connectors are waterproof and are easier for connecting multiple panels together , but for single setups I don't really think it matters which way you go .

This is the one I use at camp, having LED flood lights makes battery power last much
longer, very happy with that

[GQtdauto]

Very nice setup threedogs , I used an old plastic screw container to house my regulator from the elements but yours looks much more professional and way neater .

[threedogs]

Very nice setup threedogs , I used an old plastic screw container to house my regulator from the elements but yours looks much more professional and way neater .

I drilled some holes in the side for ventilation

[GQtdauto]

Yeah did similar but mine in the bottom of container

[threedogs]

I have a 50 amp anderson plug on the front bar to plug in a panel.
that feeds the AUX battery, nothing comes off the start battery,
it only has one job and thats to start
It also has one of those blue watt meters as well

[Covo71]

Are you happy with the controller? It looks similar to the one I saw at Jaycar. 30a MPPT controller $259. Obviously not as robust as the redarc but if sealed like you have it heaps cheaper.

[GQtdauto]

I have a 50 amp anderson plug on the front bar to plug in a panel.
that feeds the AUX battery, nothing comes off the start battery,
it only has one job and thats to start
It also has one of those blue watt meters as well
I also have front and rear Anderson plugs but do have all three batteries connected , crank is through a redarc isolator .
Dragged the camper out today and gave it a wash and repositioned the 200 watt solar panel to rear half of folding roof , noticed when the clouds were covering the sun I still had 14.1 showing on the meter and later when the sun was shaded by a totally shaded by a tree the reading was 14.2 so more than happy with that .

[threedogs]

Are you happy with the controller? It looks similar to the one I saw at Jaycar. 30a MPPT controller $259. Obviously not as robust as the redarc but if sealed like you have it heaps cheaper.

That controller was only about $40 from memory. Its been running non-stop in the back yard powering
my 18ah battery in Manland running a 12v radio. I just un-hook it if I go away

[threedogs]

Ive brought the crimping tool to suit these MC4 connectors
so if jaysee need to use them
or anyone else they are here,,,lol

My MTTP solar reg arrived ,,that didnt take long at all
got a bit of weight about it to, now to find a safe place
to mount it in the engine bay

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/20A-MPPT-Solar-Panel-Charge-Controller-Regulator-12V-24V-Waterproof-200W-250W-DA/252781899575?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D2220072%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2% 26asc%3D42399%26meid%3D203af92ed5b24cecb4047b0f6c1 95eea%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D282 369433834
GQtdauto what are the spare two wires on the reg that show a light globe symble??
Is it just to show you are working??? LOL

[GQtdauto]

Have 200 watt panel on the camper with a 20 amp regulator , have a 40 watt panel on the GQ with an 8 amp regulator but thinking of splitting the folding 100 watt portable unit and mounting it on the roof rack , ( need more solar now I'm running two spare gel cells in the GQ ) .
Portable panels I think also has a 20 amp regulator .
So what I'm thinking of doing is connecting the three panels on the roof rack together to give me 140 watts and run that to one of the 20 amp regulators which I will put close to the battery in the rear of the GQ .
When driving with the camper on I usually connect it's own 200 watt panel to the trailer Anderson plug , not to the back of the GQ .
But if I wanted to connect all four panels together for 340 watt not sure how to go about it or even if it's worth the trouble , any ideas .

[Cuppa]

When driving with the camper on I usually connect it's own 200 watt panel to the trailer Anderson plug , not to the back of the GQ .
But if I wanted to connect all four panels together for 340 watt not sure how to go about it or even if it's worth the trouble , any ideas .

You connect the 200w panel to the other 3 in the same way you have connected the three together. Keep them all connected together in parallel & the nominal voltage will remain 12v. The regulator will just ‘see’ a 340w panel.

I had a 125w panel on top of my driving cab before I added the others. Easy way was to use an Anderson Power block ("http://andersonconnect.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=233”)

[GQtdauto]

Thanks cuppa , had no idea they made a power block , will need a bit of think on how I do the systems and keep them seperate or if required hooked together .
By the look of it just means a few extension type leads and maybe a switch or two , haven't struck a blow yet but now I know about the Anderson block it will make life easier .

[GQtdauto]

Think I've got it nutted out , I need a regulator on the GQ and on the Camper , each system should be able to function on its own , ie 140 watt on GQ and 200 watt on camper .
But if I want to pull up stumps for a bit I want to be able to have the full 340 on one or the other regulator which gives me a redundancy if one regulator decides to shit itself .
I can do this by disconnecting and connecting an Anderson plug either end of system or get fancy and put in two relays either side and some switches .
I will look into the relays option because I'm lazy and it makes life easier .

[threedogs]

Think I've got it nutted out , I need a regulator on the GQ and on the Camper , each system should be able to function on its own , ie 140 watt on GQ and 200 watt on camper .
But if I want to pull up stumps for a bit I want to be able to have the full 340 on one or the other regulator which gives me a redundancy if one regulator decides to shit itself .
I can do this by disconnecting and connecting an Anderson plug either end of system or get fancy and put in two relays either side and some switches .
I will look into the relays option because I'm lazy and it makes life easier .

Even if a reg becomes U/S all you need do is disconnect your panels at night
so you dont lose your stored power through the panels, I used my 80 watt panel
like that for years without a hitch

[GQtdauto]

Thanks TD but most solar panels have a diode in between the connections on the back of the panel which I think is there to prevent power going back to the panel , power can only travel one way (out) .
Still nutting out realestate / what's going on roof rack .
Want solar panels ,pole carrier , 4x 10 litre jerry cans , chainsaw and firewood to fit up top , then comes the fun with wiring it all in which I'm not looking forward to but when I get to that stage I'm nearly finished that bit .

[Covo71]

Ive brought the crimping tool to suit these MC4 connectors
so if jaysee need to use them
or anyone else they are here,,,lol

My MTTP solar reg arrived ,,that didnt take long at all
got a bit of weight about it to, now to find a safe place
to mount it in the engine bay

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/20A-MPPT-Solar-Panel-Charge-Controller-Regulator-12V-24V-Waterproof-200W-250W-DA/252781899575?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D2220072%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2% 26asc%3D42399%26meid%3D203af92ed5b24cecb4047b0f6c1 95eea%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D282 369433834
GQtdauto what are the spare two wires on the reg that show a light globe symble??
Is it just to show you are working??? LOL
I bought one of these mppt controllers. I think it was $23 of fleabay. I just need to get a panel now and hook it up and see how it goes. For $23 if it is shit it isn't the end of the world. Fingers crossed.

[GQtdauto]

Covo , those two wires are for a load I believe , or you can run a light globe during the day or , nah I think it's for a load if you need one , most don't .
The really good Morningstar pwm regulators can divert power to elsewhere as the battery gets charged , instead of the power being reduced it sends the extra unneeded power to a load , usually something like a heating element for water .
It won't heat it up to scalding heat but will heat it up .
So don't worry too much about those two connections worry more about the others .

[GQtdauto]

Covo , those two wires are for a load I believe , or you can run a light globe during the day or , nah I think it's for a load if you need one , most don't .
The really good Morningstar pwm regulators can divert power to elsewhere as the battery gets charged , instead of the power being reduced it sends the extra unneeded power to a load , usually something like a heating element for water .
It won't heat it up to scalding heat but will heat it up .
So don't worry too much about those two connections worry more about the others .

No idea who told me that garbage about the extra two wires with the light globe symbol and what they were for but I was only half right .
In some units you connect this one to a constant load to stop the battery overcharging , such as light or some type of load .
It apparently can also be connected to the battery , I've had cheap PWM units and reasonably good ones but always kept an eye on maximum charge and float charge .
I've never worried about putting a load on that connection .
Maybe Cuppa or threedogs will have a different way of saying it , but I'm sure that's basically what it's for .

[Cuppa]

From my own use with one of the two regulators we had in our bus (a mid range Steca unit that many of the cheapies that are around now are modelled on) the 'Load' connection had very limited current capability (ie. not the full capability of the regulator) & essentially just provided an 'automatic switch' for something if required. This 'switch' allowed something like a couple of lights to turn on automatically when the sun went down (ie. when solar charging stopped) & to turn off when the sun came up. All I had connected to the 'Load' on mine was a single red led, out of direct line of sight from the bed. This provided a good nightlight for those times we needed to get up in the middle of the night & never needed to be manually switched on or off. There was a setting on the regulator which allowed the 'Load' to be switched off. Due to the limited amount of current the 'Load' can manage on most regulators, most people don't bother to use it. Confusion about what the 'Load' connection is, is very common. Some will tell you it is intended to monitor all the load on the battery & that all all loads should therefore run through this connection. That *may* be so with some high end regulators, but for most not so.

[Wizard52]

Changed my mind about lithium batteries now and will stick with gel cell , bound to get cheaper as lithium takes off .

At the moment there are good (expensive) and cheap lithiums around but no in between. Saw one top of the range 100ah recently for $2500rrp but with room to move on the price. Really it is worth 2 X 100ah AGM or Gel's as they can only be discharged to 50% where the lithium can go very low. The good lithium will last 10yrs+ where the others up to 4 yrs. Still out of my price range at that price and I don't need that much capacity in my set up with regular driving and 140watt panel.

[threedogs]

Thanks TD but most solar panels have a diode in between the connections on the back of the panel which I think is there to prevent power going back to the panel , power can only travel one way (out) .
Still nutting out realestate / what's going on roof rack .
Want solar panels ,pole carrier , 4x 10 litre jerry cans , chainsaw and firewood to fit up top , then comes the fun with wiring it all in which I'm not looking forward to but when I get to that stage I'm nearly finished that bit .

As for your firewood carrying, I used to make what was called a firewood blanket that attached to your bullbar.
you strapped to the top of the bullbar and laid it out in front of the 4x4. load it with wood then grab the end on the ground
and tie it to the top of the bullbar, it's only good when out bush and small trips at low speeds, other than that take a drag
chain and snig some logs if any around lol

[GQtdauto]

As for your firewood carrying, I used to make what was called a firewood blanket that attached to your bullbar.
you strapped to the top of the bullbar and laid it out in front of the 4x4. load it with wood then grab the end on the ground
and tie it to the top of the bullbar, it's only good when out bush and small trips at low speeds, other than that take a drag
chain and snig some logs if any around lol
Interesting idea TD , I was thinking of making something the clipped on the bulbar and could carry a few say bullbar width logs and yes short slow speed distances would love to see what you've created and maybe steal the idea .
Went out today to get a load with my eldest boy , his ute tray and my trailer I suppose about 3 cubes worth , he knew my old saw was on the fritz and new I was going to buy a cheap small Stihl chainsaw , and when I met him at the prearranged spot out bush the bugger had gone out and got me a brand new proper Stihl chainsaw .
Light enough for me to use but my god it's got some grunt , has a 16" bar on it but will work ok with an 18 " bar , lucky me I suppose .7136971370

[threedogs]

Interesting idea TD , I was thinking of making something the clipped on the bulbar and could carry a few say bullbar width logs and yes short slow speed distances would love to see what you've created and maybe steal the idea .
Went out today to get a load with my eldest boy , his ute tray and my trailer I suppose about 3 cubes worth , he knew my old saw was on the fritz and new I was going to buy a cheap small Stihl chainsaw , and when I met him at the prearranged spot out bush the bugger had gone out and got me a brand new proper Stihl chainsaw .
Light enough for me to use but my god it's got some grunt , has a 16" bar on it but will work ok with an 18 " bar , lucky me I suppose .7136971370

I made them out of rip stop canvas with loops sewn in to accept a 30mm-40mm wooden pole
Main use was Simpson crossings where wood is scarce . you would load up roof rack with the bigger
logs . was good for speeds up to say 50-60 Ks not for HWY use but you could gather plenty of tfallen timber.
easy enough to design one ,,,,go for it. lol

You have very neat wood pml
great gift from your son what a ripper.
I have a 72cc and put an 18" bar on it
revs like all get out one of the stihl copies
but might get a proper one soon

[GQtdauto]

Nah not neat at all the photo is bullshitting , if I took one done the line it's all over the place , as long as it doesn't fall over .
Missus reckons we should sneak out and get another load to try and tide us over while the season is closed but we have access to a property near where we got this with heaps of wood .
But I do like having a bit of wood in the shed I must admit .

[threedogs]

Crimping plyers for the MC4 connector arrived now I can
set up my 120 watt folder ready to go away fishing
GQtdauto I go fishing up at Bearii which is 40k north
of Shep on the Murray in the Barmah State forrest more
than welcome to share a fire etc.

[GQtdauto]

Used to cull pigs in Barmah , mozzies the size of helicopters , our next chance for a getaway won't be until the corner country trip in may .
Still getting camper and GQ prepped and every time I finish one job another pops up , would love to wet a line and blow the froth of a few one day TD , have not camped in that area outside of the culls but that was always one specific area and it was always flooded .
Will look up the area you go though and maybe catch up at some stage .

[GQtdauto]

Just realised where I was is close to where you go , I was at Yielima just a few Kay's downstream by the look of it , always looking for new spots TD .

[GQtdauto]

When I do the three panels on the GQ I will just solder and heat shrink or use Anderson plugs and a block like what Cuppa did .
Next time you're going to Bearii let us know if I can't get away for a few days I should be able to get out and wet a line .