NO oil pressure TD42 GU3

[Knibbventures]

G'day all.
My car a GU3 that was for the first 10 years a ZD30 direct Injection Auto but at about 349,000 KM it had an un containable component failure.
Thats history now it has a TD42 Turbo driving a 5 speed manual since early 2014.
Since the engine swopp that was apparently fully rebuilt the car has had this odd problem on and off.
I don't really think we ever got this fully resolved but get to the point.
When I park the car on a hill up or down no difference.
When I start the car first thing I notice is I have no Vacuum boost for clutch or brakes.
Oil Pressure warning light stays on usually until I either get on more level ground or I shut the engine down and re start it.
Then all is good I drive off and the oil light goes off and normal vacuum assist is normal.
The car has been plagued with this problem on and off since April 2014.
The pressure switch was changed recently but still doing it.
At Christmas 2016 I had get the car Tilt trayed home from The Aldi car park in Gyimpie.
Now last week after doing some home shuffling of my camper at home.
I drove the car back up to the garage and guess what Oil pressure warning light is on solid now cant get rid of it.
This is a new pressure switch fitted in Dec 2016.
I had my doubts that the oil pressure switch was telling the truth so I got an oil Pressure gauge and fitted it in a T at the same location as the oil pressure sender device.
Now I'm quite sure that there is no oil pressure as the tube that goes to the new oil pressure guage has no oil in it, not a trace!
What have I done thus far?
Oil level is fine I have added more oil so I'm not suspecting the oil pick up, It was parked on level ground anyway at home and at Aldi when this fault occurred.
This week I have removed the oil cooler with the two oil filters.
When I took the oil cooler jaket off I found that the O ring and gasket were not where they should have been see the foto below...
Now I'm no Motor Mechanic but this look bad.
Not happy with the way this looks but a little surprised that the oil and coolant have been kept separated. Also given the poor state of the o rings and how far off center to where they should be,
This motor had a Full rebuild?
I've pulled the Cooler oil pressure relief valve out and looked at it and the other valve, System pressure regulator valve, I cant fault them clean and moving freely.
My next task is to pull the Oil Pump over pressure relief valve off and check it

When the engine runs I can hear oil running back into the sump. So I'm not at this point suspecting the oil pump.
I'm at a crossroads. once I gave pulled the last valve off to check it under the Turbo thats it!

Has anyone here got any other Ideas.??? Please Please..

I have put some more fotos up.
My findings so far are pointing to the oil Pump pressure relief valve. This is under the Turbo.
When I took it to the bench to remove the valve from the valve body it took several hard knock on the bench to get it out.
I found it was not moving freely and did not fall out under its own weight.
Its pitted dirty and looks to me like it was stuck, in what position? I don't know
I have cleaned it polished it and will re assemble and tset in the coming days.
I cant be sure until I put it all back together.


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Well I'm really quite stumped.
I have put it all back together with new oil filters.
Started the car still no oil pressure.
The oil light stays on and the oil pressure gauge reads zero.
I have tested the oil pressure gauge with air pressure so I'm sure I have a working set up..
So to be clear I have no oil Pressure. I'm pretty sure I'm not getting any oil even coming into the oil Cooler.
I had this all off cleaned it had it welded up because I damaged it.
Should be easy for me to prove as I have just put new filters on, So I'll remove them in the morning.
I fully expect to find no oil in them or very little.
Also I filled up the coolant only to find the thermostat housing gasket in such poor condition that it was leaking like the Trevy Fountain.
Another fault that should not be after a full rebuild.

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This is the oil Pump relief valve housing

[Turtle_au]

Could be an oil pickup issue. When parked on a slope the oil in the sump moves and allows air to be drawn into system. Maybe the strainer head to pickup tube has loosened and whilst normally below oil level, on a slope it becomes exposed. Does oil light flicker or come on under heavy braking or driving hills?

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[Knibbventures]

No once the oil ligh has gone off thats it.
It has always stayed off.
Of course I don't have that luxury at the moment no matter what it just douse not go off.
I hope I don't have to take the sump off...
Thanks Turtle_au

[happygu]

It has been a while since I have had my 4.2, and I remember that the oil pressure used to fluctuate a fair bit, and once the engine was warm it was fairly low on the gauge.


Has this problem arisen after you changed oil and oil filters, as there are two different types of oil filters, depending on what model engine.

One engine model takes two of the same filters, and the other takes a bypass filter as the second filter.... if you have installed the wrong filter, it may be causing some of these issues.

[mudski]

What did the other gauge you fitted up say? Was there oil pressure? Was it reading the same as your current gauge?

[Knibbventures]

Hi Happygu.
No The problem has been on going not after changing oil or filters.
The filters are Ryco Z503 and they are both 503's have been using them since the engine conversion.
What is the alternative filter combination?
And why?
Both Filter mounts have a small ball valve shown as filter relief valve on the drawing
I will post some more fotos to show all this.
The filter combination was fitted up that way at the time of the engine conversion, I'm assuming its correct

[Knibbventures]

Mudski thanks.
This is the first time I have ever had a oil pressure gauge on the car permanently. other than that only by a Mechanic here in Gyimpie.
From what I am told the pressure was on the high side of normal.

[mudski]

Mudski thanks.
This is the first time I have ever had a oil pressure gauge on the car permanently. other than that only by a Mechanic here in Gyimpie.
From what I am told the pressure was on the high side of normal.

Ok if the gauge is reading normal. Then one would assume all is good there. You have changed switches, Genuine or Non Genuine? May not differ but.... The oil pressure switch is just an earth point for the light on the dash. The wire going to the switch you can remove and fix it to the body of the car and the light will stay off. If it doesn't and continues to flicker, the issue lies elsewhere. The power side of the switch is the only other thing to look at. But where and how. Is a little beyond me sorry.

[Knibbventures]

Well I'm really quite stumped.
I have put it all back together with new oil filters.
Started the car still no oil pressure.
The oil light stays on and the oil pressure gauge reads zero.
I have tested the oil pressure gauge with air pressure so I'm sure I have a working set up..
So to be clear I have no oil Pressure. I'm pretty sure I'm not getting any oil even coming into the oil Cooler.
I had this all off cleaned it had it welded up because I damaged it.
Should be easy for me to prove as I have just put new filters on, So I'll remove them in the morning.
I fully expect to find no oil in them or very little.
Also I filled up the coolant only to find the thermostat housing gasket in such poor condition that it was leaking like the Trevy Fountain.
Another fault that should not be after a full rebuild.

[BigRAWesty]

Before you run this engine much more I'd be getting a mechanic to put an actual gauge on it to show if you have pressure still or not.

If you do then focus on electrical.
The light as mudski noted is an earth. So if its shorted out to the body somewhere then yes itll be in at all times..
But not sure why the gauge is showing nil.

[mudski]

Well im confused if it does or does not have oil pressure.
Remove the rocker cover and start the motor. Can you see oil being pumped up and squirting from the head? Have you removed the oil pump to see if it its working as it should?

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[jay see]

Could it be a blocked strainer?

[mudski]

Could it be a blocked strainer?
Yeah could well be. Among many other things...

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[Turtle_au]

You have narrowed it down to 3 possible issues
Oil Circuit shows Sump - Strainer - Pickup - Pump - Filters - Cooler - Engine
Oil Pump relief valve is between pump and filter and drains straight back to sump.
Oil Filter relief valve will bypass filter and send oil to cooler.
1. No oil getting to pump - blocked oil strainer, air leak in oil pickup ( maybe where pickup tube bolts to block )
2. Pump not pumping - drive failure, pump worn out, leaking seal or gasket.
3. Pump output not getting to filters - Pump relief valve stuck open.

Next step I would remove the oil pump relief valve housing completely. Disconnect the fuel solenoid wiring and crank the engine to see if you are getting oil there.

[Turtle_au]

Just re-reading original post. You said "apparantly" rebuilt. Who by? and how much was replaced or just cleaned and new seals/gaskets?

[Cuppa]

Was there any oil in the fresh filters?

[my third 256]

didnt some patrol 4.2 have 2 oil filters and were different
found on ebay Oil Filter Z503 x 1 and Oil Filter Z416 x 1

[mudski]

didnt some patrol 4.2 have 2 oil filters and were different
found on ebay Oil Filter Z503 x 1 and Oil Filter Z416 x 1

Yeah mate, but you can't mix them up as they had different thread sizes. If thats what you were getting at...

[Turtle_au]

Lets see how this goes TD Oil Circuit drawings

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[Knibbventures]

Thanks Its on my list today. I've given it a rest for a few days.
I've been a bit nervous about starting the car again with no oil pressure so today I will force oil in at the oil pump relief valve port and see where it gets to .
I hope to see some coming up into the rocker area.
No I have not removed the oil pump.
Where is the oil pump?
Whats required to get at it.?
Thanks very much for your input

[Knibbventures]

Thanks Turtle.
I have the sump off. That gasket on the oil pick up is not in great shape but I will make a new one and put it back.
Oil strainer is in great shape.
I will follow your next step it sounds like a good method and proves the oil pump is pumping.
Thanks very much for your input, I'm a sparky not a Mechanic but I can do a lot myself...

[Knibbventures]

I wish, No its clean and proven to be clear all the way up to the block pipe work.. I'm referring to the oil Pick up in the sump.!

[Knibbventures]

Re Build was done 2 years ago at Browns Plains BY Southern District Auto center on Tradlink south side of Brisbane.

[Knibbventures]

My Car since re build has always had 2 Z503 filters.

[mudski]

I wish, No its clean and proven to be clear all the way up to the block pipe work.. I'm referring to the oil Pick up in the sump.!

Is oil getting up into the rocker cover area?

[nissannewby]

Check all the piston squirters are in place and not damaged. There is also a squirter for the timing gears that needs to be in place.

[Knibbventures]

You have narrowed it down to 3 possible issues
Oil Circuit shows Sump - Strainer - Pickup - Pump - Filters - Cooler - Engine
Oil Pump relief valve is between pump and filter and drains straight back to sump.
Oil Filter relief valve will bypass filter and send oil to cooler.
1. No oil getting to pump - blocked oil strainer, air leak in oil pickup ( maybe where pickup tube bolts to block )
2. Pump not pumping - drive failure, pump worn out, leaking seal or gasket.
3. Pump output not getting to filters - Pump relief valve stuck open.

Next step I would remove the oil pump relief valve housing completely. Disconnect the fuel solenoid wiring and crank the engine to see if you are getting oil there.

Thanks Turtle_au.
I have done what you suggested, removed the oil Pump relief valve.
I got the wife to operate the Starter motor and after quite a while 30 seconds or more large volume of oil came squirting out.
Prior to this I had the pick up tube with filter off and found that the gasket was in pretty poor shape where it bolts onto the block.
I made a new gasket and applied Stag sealant to both sides bolted it up, re assembled.
put the oil back in and immediately got 20 psi oil pressure on my gauge and no oil low pressure warning light so I'm very happy and relived.

I'm thankful to all who have put there suggestion forward, its given me the strenghth to go on looking.

As for the cause of all this grief well what can I say.
You have to put your faith in people to do a good job especially in these mission critical areas.
John Rooth says when he gets work done on his cars he crawls all over it to see that its been done wright.
There is a limit to how far you can take that.
I have found many gaskets that defiantly were not renewed when this re build was done, lets face it its so easy to do when you have the engine out.
Very shoddy to put it back together without replacing the gaskets.
See the fotos of the oil pick up flange. what would you think?


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Seems to have worked pictures are up.
Looking decidedly crudy, remember this is supposedly after a professional rebuild...
I haven't decided on the best form of action. I'm Thinking an artical in 4 Wheel drive action
A snotty letter to Repco re the standards of there workshops flying there flag.
I went through a case of very shoddy work done by ARB years ago which resulted in my car having no brakes after a Black Widow draws install.
They substituted one bolt for a longer one resulting in my brake lines getting cut on the Gibb River road.
I'm not to sure what to do.
The advice I got from the people who did the work was cut the wire to the oil warning light.
Its a good job these people don't work in Aviation...

[Knibbventures]

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[mudnut]

Pics not working for me.

[Robo]

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The detail of the oil pickup flange before fixing...

attachment still not working.