What's wrong with this muffler?

[dom14]

Hey Guys,

Muffler is "rattling" internally by the sound of it.(RB30 Patrol).
It started few weeks ago and getting worse apparently.
There are no holes or exhaust leaks on it.
When I press on the bottom of the muffler's body the noise goes down a fair bit.

See the below video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTSukggde_8&feature=youtu.be

Thanx
Dom

[Ben-e-boy]

70074

70075

[garett]

just change it, it's stuffed will only get worse over time.

[threedogs]

sounds like youve burnt the guts out of the muffler, cheap enough to replace

[Clunk]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/12/3.jpg

[dom14]

70074

70075

Wow! Amazing!!!
Why didn't I think of that before?!! :D
I think I'm going to open up the rattle box and find out what's that bearing doing in there. :)

[dom14]

just change it, it's stuffed will only get worse over time.

I wonder how I managed this. Probably short drives and "cooler coolant thermostat" didn't help.
Short drives must have collected moisture inside and rusted the guts out loose.

[dom14]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/12/3.jpg

Tried but didn't work.:)

[mudnut]

I wonder how I managed this. Probably short drives and "cooler coolant thermostat" didn't help.
Short drives must have collected moisture inside and rusted the guts out loose.

Nahhh! Its the awesome power of the RB30 ripping the baffle plates out!!!

[Clunk]

Tried but didn't work.:)
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/12/4.jpg

[dom14]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/12/4.jpg

Ok, cool. I'll give it a go.

[dom14]

Nahhh! Its the awesome power of the RB30 ripping the baffle plates out!!!

He..he..he. That's really funny. :D
You guys watch me. I'm gonna fix it.
I don't care if it costs me an arm and a leg. :harhar:
You're teasing the wrong backyardie here. :icon_bonk::wink:

[taslucas]

You need a girlfriend

>>>tappin from tassie

[dom14]

You need a girlfriend

>>>tappin from tassie

I've got enough trouble with quite a few of them. Anymore would kill me.
Having said that, if you've got any freebees to give away, I'll take it. :clownredpuff:

[mudnut]

Just keep drilling 3/16 holes in the damn thing until you get the loose baffle, then use blind pop rivets to fasten it and fill the holes. PML. If that doesn't work then fill the bastard with WD40, to quieten the rattle.

[dom14]

Just keep drilling 3/16 holes in the damn thing until you get the loose baffle, then use blind pop rivets to fasten it and fill the holes. PML. If that doesn't work then fill the bastard with WD40, to quieten the rattle.

Now, that's an idea I can work with. :D
I'm also thinking cutting it open and pull the loose baffle out and reseal the sound box. :bananarock:

[dom14]

Hey Guys,

Any ideas about Stainless Steel mufflers?!

How much would you pay for a one for the RB30? Are they super dear comparing to mild steel ones?

Thanx

[mudnut]

Keep a Tab on what it cost you to fix it, for a laugh. Resealing the skin will be a hard as it is not much thicker than tin foil.

This stuff will do better than Duct tape. Blasphemy! http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FiberFix-Ridiculously-Strong-Repair-Wrap-Fiber-Fix-2-x-50-/152210495774?hash=item237073d91e:g:zl0AAOSwal5YK8C Q

[Clunk]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/12/5.jpg

[gubigfish]

If it helps I have the muffler from my exhaust that was cut out sitting at home, you just need a 3" exhaust or some reducers to attach to it

[dom14]

Keep a Tab on what it cost you to fix it, for a laugh. Resealing the skin will be a hard as it is not much thicker than tin foil.

This stuff will do better than Duct tape. Blasphemy! http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FiberFix-Ridiculously-Strong-Repair-Wrap-Fiber-Fix-2-x-50-/152210495774?hash=item237073d91e:g:zl0AAOSwal5YK8C Q

FYI, I've resealed the skin three times already. You just have to be good with a MIG. Borrow a MIG from a mate and you're on business.

So, any ideas about stainless steel mufflers?!!

[dom14]

If it helps I have the muffler from my exhaust that was cut out sitting at home, you just need a 3" exhaust or some reducers to attach to it

Thanx mate. Perth is a long drive for me. :D
But, I'll take a raincheck and bring a you few stubbies when I get there sometime soon during touring .
Cheers
Dom

[dom14]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/12/5.jpg

Resemblance is uncanny. What were you doing there?!! ;)

[mudnut]

Expensive, especially if you're gunna update to a 4.8 soon.

[dom14]

Keep a Tab on what it cost you to fix it, for a laugh. Resealing the skin will be a hard as it is not much thicker than tin foil.

This stuff will do better than Duct tape. Blasphemy! http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FiberFix-Ridiculously-Strong-Repair-Wrap-Fiber-Fix-2-x-50-/152210495774?hash=item237073d91e:g:zl0AAOSwal5YK8C Q

Come to think of it, that stuff ain't that bad. It can come handy in many mishaps, and it's cheap. :)

[dom14]

Expensive, especially if you're gunna update to a 4.8 soon.

4.8?!! What've you been drinking lately?!! 3L is enough trouble as it is for me! :)

[mudnut]

I wonder how it smells on a hot muffler:)

[dom14]

I wonder how it smells on a hot muffler:)

According to fleabay, stainless steel ain't any dearer than mild steel.
It's that ones that're purposely made for Patrol arent' available cheaper.
I wonder whether I can modify a standard stainless steel muffler of the same size to suit mine.

[threedogs]

most would be made from aluminized steel Id think these days

[dom14]

most would be made from aluminized steel Id think these days

Ok cool, so... those $200 or less stainless steel mufflers aren't exactly stainless steel per say?!!

[threedogs]

two seperate steels most exhaust pipe is aluminized steel,
so a stainless system is a bit of overkill imo.
Grab some 3 bolt flanges so you can just bolt it in

[gaddy]

[QUOTE=dom14;706004]FYI, I've resealed the skin three times already.

It's got the better of me. .... why , and maybe thats the problem !

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[dom14]

[QUOTE=dom14;706004]FYI, I've resealed the skin three times already.

It's got the better of me. .... why , and maybe thats the problem !

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Yeah, I reckon you're right. I extended the life of the muffler a fair bit.
It looks pretty healthy from outside 'cos of my TLC, but there's nothing much I can do to prevent
what happens inside it.

[dom14]

two seperate steels most exhaust pipe is aluminized steel,
so a stainless system is a bit of overkill imo.
Grab some 3 bolt flanges so you can just bolt it in

Ok cool. Three bolt flanges are obviously better than two bolt ones.

[dom14]

Just updating.
The muffler rattle suddenly vanished and it purrs like a pussy cat right now.
This has been happening for a while though.
Sometime it's rattling like hell and other times nothing.
I think the baffle plate(s) are moving around inside and sometimes get lodged firmly inside and no noise.

[4bye4]

Something to think about Dom. Just last week I had an issue on a piece of mobile equipment I service. A two cylinder motor running on one cylinder. When I pulled it down it had one bent and one broken push rod. Repaired and started it but although it was now on two cylinders it developed no power. Exhaust appeared blocked. Anyway to cut a long one short, the baffles in the muffler had come loose and one had managed to get stuck in the exhaust outlet blocking it about 90%. It was this that caused the motor to back pressure at full noise and break/bend push rods.Repair cost? about $1600.00. Just because its now lodged somewhere and not rattling is not necessarily a good thing.

[dom14]

Something to think about Dom. Just last week I had an issue on a piece of mobile equipment I service. A two cylinder motor running on one cylinder. When I pulled it down it had one bent and one broken push rod. Repaired and started it but although it was now on two cylinders it developed no power. Exhaust appeared blocked. Anyway to cut a long one short, the baffles in the muffler had come loose and one had managed to get stuck in the exhaust outlet blocking it about 90%. It was this that caused the motor to back pressure at full noise and break/bend push rods.Repair cost? about $1600.00. Just because its now lodged somewhere and not rattling is not necessarily a good thing.

Thanx mate. It is well timed good advice for me.
I most certainly won't muck around with this, and have it replaced asap.
Of course, excessive back pressure can't be a good thing for these old worn out engines.

I'm about to do a basic back pressure test with the vacuum pressure gauge following the guides below.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/exhaust_backpressure.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-jp1IIJVVk

[dom14]

Hey Guys,
Can I use a Fuel Pressure Gauge(gauge goes upto 10psi) to check the exhaust back pressure?
I can use EGR port on the exhaust manifold to tap into with a suitable adapter.
Would it cook the fuel pressure gauge/vacuum gauge in no time?
Or would it damage the gauge if the pressure hit above 10psi instantly?
I'm guessing I only need to use it for few seconds.

[Clunk]

Just rip it out and wels a piece of pipe in it place until you get a new one. What's the point in risking any damage that may be caused........ you may as well just use water instead of coolant for the next couple of years for that matter

[dom14]

Just rip it out and wels a piece of pipe in it place until you get a new one. What's the point in risking any damage that may be caused........ you may as well just use water instead of coolant for the next couple of years for that matter

Thanx mate. I'm not driving it right now as I'm fixing few things.
No argument it's gotta be replaced asap.
I have a vacuum gauge permanently hooked up so that can help as well(assuming I'm alert enough to keep an eye on it all the time).
I do take risks occasionally, but they are calculated risks, usually(unless a Shiela involved). ;)

[mudski]

According to fleabay, stainless steel ain't any dearer than mild steel.
It's that ones that're purposely made for Patrol arent' available cheaper.
I wonder whether I can modify a standard stainless steel muffler of the same size to suit mine.
Of course you can. A muffler is just made at a generic size, and in and out orientation. Its the pipes on either side that matters.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk

[dom14]

Of course you can. A muffler is just made at a generic size, and in and out orientation. Its the pipes on either side that matters.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk

Thanx Mudski mate.
That's what I've been waiting to hear. I like my hobby. :D
Cheers
Dom

[dom14]

I'm thinking about getting a reasonably close stainless steel muffler from a wrecker and modify it to suit mine.
Getting a mild steel used muffler is a waste of money I reckon, 'cos it may end up the same way in no time?

[garett]

mufflers are over rated just put in a bit of pipe ... :P

[mudnut]

You've gone around this all wrong, Dom.

It goes like this: "Honey, the muffler has got some loose baffles (truth), and I have been informed that they could block the muffler and stuff the engine (truth).

After all the trouble I've had with the whole system it would be easier to get a whole new system than mucking around with individual components (some what true). So the engine pipe flange doesn't stuff up, we should get headers (totally true). They should also give us better economy (truth).

Do not however mention the extra ten percent (achievable, so truth anyway) increase in horsepower.

[GeeYou8]

On the subject of stainless vs aluminiumised steel, the stainless is more brittle & prone to cracking. Unless it is a show car, go with the aluminiumised steel.

[dom14]

You've gone around this all wrong, Dom.

It goes like this: "Honey, the muffler has got some loose baffles (truth), and I have been informed that they could block the muffler and stuff the engine (truth).

After all the trouble I've had with the whole system it would be easier to get a whole new system than mucking around with individual components (some what true). So the engine pipe flange doesn't stuff up, we should get headers (totally true). They should also give us better economy (truth).

Do not however mention the extra ten percent (achievable, so truth anyway) increase in horsepower.

Yeah, I know you have evidence to prove the extractors improve the horsepower without upgrading the pipes or the muffler, but I reckon you got lucky with a good set of extractors and a good carby tune up.
Extractors are cheap enough to buy secondhand, but way too much PITA for me right now.
Muffler's gota be replaced. No doubt about that.

Here's the vacuum gauge test on exhaust back pressure.
As you can see the the vacuum isn't dropping as I increase and hold the rpm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTK1jXVy6VQ&feature=youtu.be

So, it appears there isn't much back pressure at the moment, according the vacuum gauge test, but I'm
sure the muffler is gone anyway. Next time the baffles start rattling inside it might block the whole thing.

BTW, it appears it's holding at a higher level(23 InHg) at steady high revving than at idling vacuum(20), then goes even higher(30) when I let go the high rpm.

Does that look all good?!

[dom14]

On the subject of stainless vs aluminiumised steel, the stainless is more brittle & prone to cracking. Unless it is a show car, go with the aluminiumised steel.

Ok, cool thanx. I didn't know that.
Cheers

[dom14]

mufflers are over rated just put in a bit of pipe ... :P

I would, when I get to turbo arena. :D

[mudnut]

Yeah, I know you have evidence to prove the extractors improve the horsepower without upgrading the pipes or the muffler, but I reckon you got lucky with a good set of extractors and a good carby tune up.
Extractors are cheap enough to buy secondhand, but way too much PITA for me right now.
Muffler's gota be replaced. No doubt about that.

Here's the vacuum gauge test on exhaust back pressure.
As you can see the the vacuum isn't dropping as I increase and hold the rpm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTK1jXVy6VQ&feature=youtu.be

So, it appears there isn't much back pressure at the moment, according the vacuum gauge test, but I'm
sure the muffler is gone anyway. Next time the baffles start rattling inside it might block the whole thing.

BTW, it appears it's holding at a higher level(23 InHg) at steady high revving than at idling vacuum(20), then goes even higher(30) when I let go the high rpm.

Does that look all good?!

Dunno. Maybe nissannewby can tell you what is happening.

[dom14]

Dunno. Maybe nissannewby can tell you what is happening.

Ok, cool. I send him a PM. Google hasn't turned up anything on high rpm steady vacuum reading and letting it drop quickly.

[GeeYou8]

The vacuum gauge readings are exactly what I would expect, back in the 80s some cars had vacuum gauges (marked economy gauges) in the instrument cluster & that is pretty much what you got.
At idle speed the engine is sucking in air through a small gap
At higher RPM there is more air being sucked & the gap is bigger the engine will reach a speed where the manifold pressure limits it so the absolute pressure will be lower (more vacuum), with a blocked exhaust the exhaust pressure starts to limit RPM so the manifold pressure is higher (less vacuum).
When you close the throttle the engine is still sucking lots of air through a small gap so the absolute pressure drops sharply (more vacuum) until the engine slows to idle speed.

The comments in brackets are there to clarify, there is no such thing as more or less vacuum, you gauge reads "gauge pressure" not "absolute pressure" that a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) would read.
Graham

[dom14]

The vacuum gauge readings are exactly what I would expect, back in the 80s some cars had vacuum gauges (marked economy gauges) in the instrument cluster & that is pretty much what you got.
At idle speed the engine is sucking in air through a small gap
At higher RPM there is more air being sucked & the gap is bigger the engine will reach a speed where the manifold pressure limits it so the absolute pressure will be lower (more vacuum), with a blocked exhaust the exhaust pressure starts to limit RPM so the manifold pressure is higher (less vacuum).
When you close the throttle the engine is still sucking lots of air through a small gap so the absolute pressure drops sharply (more vacuum) until the engine slows to idle speed.

The comments in brackets are there to clarify, there is no such thing as more or less vacuum, you gauge reads "gauge pressure" not "absolute pressure" that a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) would read.
Graham

Thanx mate.
The reason I wondered is that I've heard idling vacuum reading is the highest we usually get.
Not sure where I heard it, but somehow stored in my head as an unclarified "fact". :D
It's good to know the real facts.
Cheers
Dom