Coolant mystery ...... or perhaps not?

[Cuppa]

I changed the coolant in my car today but it didn't take the amount the manual says, nowhere near it.

Manual says 15.1 litres. I only managed to put 8 or 9 litres in.

I should be able to put a bit more than the manual says as I have the coolant system extended into the pod where it passes through a coil to heat up our water for camp.

I recall putting around the 15 litre amount last time. It was about 5 years ago & I used the high percentage glycol stuff good for 250,000kms or 5 years. (I've only done about 30,000kms). I don't recall having to remove the drain plug at the rear of the block, only the radiator.

OK, so today I thought I'd do a proper job & spent ages stuffing around to get access to the drain plug on the block (behind the turbo & exhaust) but when I finally managed to get onto it I couldn't shift it & gave up for fear of damaging something or myself).

Anyway, so I had the heater knob to full, removed & cleaned the overflow tank (didn't need it as it happens) & put the car facing down an embankment to aid the flow of coolant out of the radiator & motor when I removed the radiator plug. When the coolant stopped running I flushed the radiator out with a hose & then I replaced the plug & filled the system with water from our rainwater tank, started the motor & ran it until the water started to get hot. I did this 4 or 5 times until the water stopped turning green, which I assume occurred when the the thermostat opened & water was pumped through the block. Once the water was relatively clear I then filled up with new coolant, faced the car uphill & ran it with a cut down coke bottle in the radiator to 'burp' any air out.

All done I took it for a drive. Temperature gauge was fine, as normal between 80Deg.C & 90Deg.C. Once happy there was no evidence of overheating I gave it a bit of stick, 100kph uphill, 120 in 4th on the flat. Temp never went above 90 deg.C. Once back home I checked that the hose to the hot water service was hot & that if I turned on the hot tap that I had hot water. All good. As the motor cooled the radiator sucked some coolant back from the pressurised 'overflow' tank as it should, & I topped that up with a little more coolant (not much).

So it all appears to be working as it should, but I don't know why I could only put in a max of 9 litres? Is it because I didn't remove the drain plug in the block? Wouldn't most of the block drain out through the radiator given time? Coolant is obviously circulating through the motor to get hot. But I'm thinking maybe the block might hold around 6 litres & what I've done is flushed the motor but not drained it, so have essentially diluted the expensive coolant with the water trapped in the block.

Please advise me.

[AB]

Hi Cups, yes your last sentence in your last paragraph is correct, I just set this up for you, impossible to drain all coolant from block with just draining the radiator.

The drain plug will come off or you could also try taking your banjo bolt off your turbo on the other side of the oil relief valve parallel to the coolant drain plug.

[AB]

This one but yours will run to your turbo.

[AB]

Or even try taking your water fitting off the turbo that runs to that fitting too mate...But you should put new washers on if you do that too.

[Cuppa]

So when the drain plug in the block is removed ..... does coolant flow out of it, or does it just allow air in so the coolant can run out of the bottom of the radiator?

What has me beat is that I don't believe I removed it last time & yet recall putting 15 litres in (could be a faulty memory though I guess).

I wonder if Nissan designers are required to major in 'inaccessibility' before they are let loose on car designs. It's hard to imagine why else some f-wit decided to put a maintenance item like a drain plug in such a bugger of a spot? How do folk normally access it? Surely it's not necessary to drop the exhaust? I can just get onto it with a socket on an extension bar inserted from above, once the heat shield is removed, but it leaves the head of the wrench hard against the firewall & a length of metal tube over the wrench for leverage gave no joy. No room for a rattle gun.

I'll have a look at that banjo bolt tomorrow.

[AB]

So when the drain plug in the block is removed ..... does coolant flow out of it, or does it just allow air in so the coolant can run out of the bottom of the radiator? What has me beat is that I don't believe I removed it last time & yet recall putting 15 litres in (could be a faulty memory though I guess). I wonder if Nissan designers are required to major in 'inaccessibility' before they are let loose on car designs. It's hard to imagine why else some f-wit decided to put a maintenance item like a drain plug in such a bugger of a spot? How do folk normally access it? Surely it's not necessary to drop the exhaust? I can just get onto it with a socket on an extension bar inserted from above, once the heat shield is removed, but it leaves the head of the wrench hard against the firewall & a length of metal tube over the wrench for leverage gave no joy. No room for a rattle gun. I'll have a look at that banjo bolt tomorrow. Yes, coolant will come out and fully drain your block of coolant.

Yep, it's a great spot isn't it!

I have a cut spanner I keep and go in from the top, I'm sure you can get to it from under though.

I have a braided line on my turbo going there so for me it's easy as I can take off the braided line from the turbo and put the braided line into containers. Did that multiple times when diagnosing the turbo so I could reuse the coolant.

I'm happy to be proven wrong but laws of physics do not allow the coolant to be fully drained from engine with the two radiator lines higher then most of the block.

[mudnut]

A good brand name ring spanner would be better, so you don't strip the hex or cause yourself an injury.

[Cuppa]

Well I've been back out to the shed but as of midnight I have accepted defeat. No way is it possible to get a spanner onto that bastard of a drain bolt. Other's set ups must be different. I stripped off the exhaust manifold heat shield & turbo heat shield & removed the egt probe from the exhaust , all to no avail. Even if I took off the exhaust manifold (which I have no intention of doing) I still couldn't get a spanner on it - & I have a fairly decent selection of spanners. Impossible to get to it from underneath too. Not sure if the aftermarket exhaust makes things more difficult than with a stock pipe. I did manage to get a good grip on it with a 1/4" drive socket & extension, but it's that solid in there that the tool would have broken before the bolt would move. It's also slightly rounded now! Grrrrr!.

All is not lost though, (I hope). I found that from underneath I can get onto the bolt that Andy identified in post 3, though I'm not sure why it might be called a banjo bolt. No banjo, just the bolt like in Andy's pic.
Just to be certain, you are talking about the one a 19mm socket fits arent you AB?. (see pic) I hope so as I managed to crack that one open ....... but decided that at that hour it was best to leave until the morning, that & the fact I didn't want coolant all over the shed floor ...... so just nipped it up again.

69598

[AB]

Ok I thought that's where you guys get your water feed for turbo???

If you have a bolt there too then???

Anyone???

[AB]

Is your turbo water and oil cooled or just oil cooled?

I am 99.9% sure that is your water feed for turbo and if your turbo is oil cooled only and you can get that bolt off then happy days Cuppa.

[Cuppa]

Is your turbo water and oil cooled or just oil cooled?

I am 99.9% sure that is your water feed for turbo and if your turbo is oil cooled only and you can get that bolt off then happy days Cuppa.

I have no idea how the turbo is cooled.
Can anyone advise please . 4.2TDi.

Fingers crossed.

[AB]

I have no idea how the turbo is cooled. Can anyone advise please . 4.2TDi. Fingers crossed. Can you please take a photo of your turbo for me, one underneath looking up would be good too.

[AB]

Can you please take a photo of your turbo for me, one underneath looking up would be good too. If it's just oil fed you will only have 2 lines coming out of turbo, one on top and one underneath.

The water lines will be coming out of each side of the turbo.

[Cuppa]

Can you please take a photo of your turbo for me, one underneath looking up would be good too.

Here's some pics AB, hopefuly they will be useful in clarifying things, but let me know if you need better angle shots. Not the easiest thing to take pics of.

From above:
You can see the pesky (& slightly butchered) coolant drain plug. I reckon it's seized & the exhaust makes it impossible to get a socket on dead straight.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/11/12.jpg

Another shot from above.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/11/13.jpg

And a couple from below. Second one shows the other end of that pipe.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/11/14.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/11/15.jpg

No sign of water cooling for the turbo that I can make out??

[AB]

Ok, so it looks like you have an oil cooled turbo only so that fitting I showed you will now be your coolant drain now Cuppa, go for it.

I thought all Nissan factory turbos were also water cooled, do you know what turbo that is?

@nissannewby

All Nissan factory turbos water and oil cooled?

What turbo does Cuppa have?

[Cuppa]

If it's just oil fed you will only have 2 lines coming out of turbo, one on top and one underneath.



A second pipe, running parallel to the block & of similar or same diameter as the one at the bottom goes into the top of the turbo. Hadn't seen it when originally taking pics, as it's largely hidden by the exhaust manifold heat shield.

A bit easier to make out if you click on the pic to enlarge it

69599

So I guess this means I have an oil cooled only turbo then???

Googling is very confusing as there seem to be opinions that the factory intercooled models had oil cooled/water cooled/ oil & water cooled turbos (take your pick).

EDIT: Just read your last post. Good news! Being ex Telstra (& me the second owner) I can't imagine that it would be anything other than factory fitted.

[AB]

A second pipe, running parallel to the block & of similar or same diameter as the one at the bottom goes into the top of the turbo. Hadn't seen it when originally taking pics, as it's largely hidden by the exhaust manifold heat shield. A bit easier to make out if you click on the pic to enlarge it <img src="http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=69599"/> So I guess this means I have an oil cooled only turbo then??? Googling is very confusing as there seem to be opinions that the factory intercooled models had oil cooled/water cooled/ oil & water cooled turbos (take your pick). EDIT: Just read your last post. Good news! Being ex Telstra (& me the second owner) I can't imagine that it would be anything other than factory fitted. Yeah that's oil feed mate. That's good for your situation though Cuppa haha

[Cuppa]

Thanks heaps AB.
That bolt you were 99.9% sure about has just been removed (with ease) & you can now be 100% sure! :) I suspect that the reason that the 'standard' drain plug is seized is that there has never been a need to remove it.

Normally I would have bought some more coolant before taking the bolt out, but as I wasn't sure if it would have a sealing washer I thought I'd take it out first to check before going into town to get more, & yes it has a copper washer so I'll get a couple of new ones too. Luckily I have the use of MrsTea's car whenever I want it at the moment as she is on the other side of the planet visiting family for a month.

[dom14]

Well I've been back out to the shed but as of midnight I have accepted defeat. No way is it possible to get a spanner onto that bastard of a drain bolt. Other's set ups must be different. I stripped off the exhaust manifold heat shield & turbo heat shield & removed the egt probe from the exhaust , all to no avail. Even if I took off the exhaust manifold (which I have no intention of doing) I still couldn't get a spanner on it - & I have a fairly decent selection of spanners. Impossible to get to it from underneath too. Not sure if the aftermarket exhaust makes things more difficult than with a stock pipe. I did manage to get a good grip on it with a 1/4" drive socket & extension, but it's that solid in there that the tool would have broken before the bolt would move. It's also slightly rounded now! Grrrrr!.

All is not lost though, (I hope). I found that from underneath I can get onto the bolt that Andy identified in post 3, though I'm not sure why it might be called a banjo bolt. No banjo, just the bolt like in Andy's pic.
Just to be certain, you are talking about the one a 19mm socket fits arent you AB?. (see pic) I hope so as I managed to crack that one open ....... but decided that at that hour it was best to leave until the morning, that & the fact I didn't want coolant all over the shed floor ...... so just nipped it up again.

69598

I did mine with a socket, but I made sure it was a hex socket, not a 12 point one. You simply can't afford to round the bolt, 'cos the bolt head is not that thick(in mine).
Ratchet couldn't do it. I had to use the longer lever to loosen it up first, then use the ratchet. I didn't have any access issues from the bottom 'cos there's no turbo gear on mine but standard stock exhaust. It's still impossible to access it from top. It had to be from the bottom.

[dom14]

Yes, coolant will come out and fully drain your block of coolant.

Yep, it's a great spot isn't it!

I have a cut spanner I keep and go in from the top, I'm sure you can get to it from under though.

I have a braided line on my turbo going there so for me it's easy as I can take off the braided line from the turbo and put the braided line into containers. Did that multiple times when diagnosing the turbo so I could reuse the coolant.

I'm happy to be proven wrong but laws of physics do not allow the coolant to be fully drained from engine with the two radiator lines higher then most of the block.

When I removed the drain plug on mine, the water didn't come out. I put my finger in to find out what's going on. I felt something like a "coin" stuck to the drain hole inside that prevented water from coming out. It came loose and apparently fell into the bottom of the water jacket or moved down a bit, which allowed the water to gush out. I wondered what that thing was. I thought it might have been an old welch plug somehow fell inside and moved near the drain plug and got stuck there, and decided not to bother with it.
There wasn't anything I could possible do anyway. Whatever it was, it would've been impossible to get it out through the drain hole.
Sorry for the hijack. I thought posting it here might help everybody.

[dom14]

It's also slightly rounded now! Grrrrr!.


If possible, giving the top of the drain bolt a top with a round head hammer, punch etc might help to break it loose a bit.
I would only use a hex socket for something that can give lot of grief.
Now, you have to use a hex socket anyway. ;)

[dom14]

Thanks heaps AB.
That bolt you were 99.9% sure about has just been removed (with ease) & you can now be 100% sure! :) I suspect that the reason that the 'standard' drain plug is seized is that there has never been a need to remove it.

Mine was an absolute bastard to remove. Pretty much welded on to the hole.
I had to remove mine, 'cos there was way too much rust in the water jacket(s) & I had to try flushing it through
the drain hole. I don't think professional mechanics tough the drain bolt when flushing the cooling system.
They probably use compressed air to get the water out, I'm guessing?! I tried doing that, but not practical without the right air tight fittings.

[AB]

When I removed the drain plug on mine, the water didn't come out. I put my finger in to find out what's going on. I felt something like a "coin" stuck to the drain hole inside that prevented water from coming out. It came loose and apparently fell into the bottom of the water jacket or moved down a bit, which allowed the water to gush out. I wondered what that thing was. I thought it might have been an old welch plug somehow fell inside and moved near the drain plug and got stuck there, and decided not to bother with it.
There wasn't anything I could possible do anyway. Whatever it was, it would've been impossible to get it out through the drain hole.
Sorry for the hijack. I thought posting it here might help everybody.

Hey mate, I would be a little concerned if that happened to me.

You wouldn't want that object blocking a galley and restricting cooling. You could however dump your coolant and keep flushing your cooling system by a hose and see if that object gets pushed back to the coolant drain plug for an inspection of what that object is.

[dom14]

Hey mate, I would be a little concerned if that happened to me.

You wouldn't want that object blocking a galley and restricting cooling. You could however dump your coolant and keep flushing your cooling system by a hose and see if that object gets pushed back to the coolant drain plug for an inspection of what that object is.

Yeah mate, I was hoping that might happen when I was flushing it, but apparently didn't. What I should've done was to have a look with the inspection mirror to start with, before poking my finger in it. I think(believe) the excess rust buildup in the block was from an old steel welch plug rotting inside during a botched welch plug job in the past. I assumed what I felt was the last piece of the rotting welch plug somehow moved and got stuck behind the coolant drain plug hole. Having said that, I remember it was kinda smooth, rather than porous. That's why the "coin" word popped into my head to describe it. I also had drama with dropping a brass welch plug inside the water jacket, which I somehow managed to fish out.

I'll be doing another coolant system flush soon to replace coolant with brand new liquid. I'll definitely see if I can get that thing to move near the drain hole and hopefully fish it out. It was definitely bit smaller than a welch plug, from the way I felt it. I think that's why I dropped and went missing easily.

One thing I learnt from this was that it is a smart move to replace all the welch plugs when a one fails so I could've flushed and cleaned the system much better and remove any stuck bit and pieces as above. One fails usually means the others aren't that far off. I was bit tightarse(actually rather slack) for no good. Doing the welch plugs aren't that easy with proper access issues. To do the welch plugs on inlet side, I have to pull the inlet manifold out. On exhaust side, two of the welch plugs need the engine mount out to make room to access it, hence the reason I was bit of a slackarse. :)

[Robo]

I also had the coin thingy when removing the drain plug.
It appeared to be OEM casting residue that had migrated to the corner and for lack of better words calcified in the hole forming a plug/coin.
But I had the engine out, so no big deal.

[Cuppa]

Well, all done, coolant changed again & this time I got about 14.5 litres in which is good enough I reckon. Have marked the unused turbo coolant plug so hopefully I remember in another 5 years time! The old coolant came out clean as a whistle & not even a trace of sludge on the tip of the drain bolt. Also did another oil & filter change, 1 year & 5000kms since the last one. :D Now have 180,000 on the clock. Thats a grand total of 26,000kms since buying it in March 2011.

[dom14]

I also had the coin thingy when removing the drain plug.
It appeared to be OEM casting residue that had migrated to the corner and for lack of better words calcified in the hole forming a plug/coin.
But I had the engine out, so no big deal.

Thanx. Now I feel bit better. :)

[garett]

Well, all done, coolant changed again & this time I got about 14.5 litres in which is good enough I reckon. Have marked the unused turbo coolant plug so hopefully I remember in another 5 years time! The old coolant came out clean as a whistle & not even a trace of sludge on the tip of the drain bolt. Also did another oil & filter change, 1 year & 5000kms since the last one. :D Now have 180,000 on the clock. Thats a grand total of 26,000kms since buying it in March 2011.

woooh 26k km... wow i did that in my gq in less than one year.... i flush it with clean water then add concentrate to the correct mix. yes yes the slack way

[Cuppa]

woooh 26k km... wow i did that in my gq in less than one year....

Ummm yes, an average of around 4700kms per year in my ownership to date ........a bit of long term planning on my part. 'Saving' it for it's intended purpose. Feels like I've been saying this for too long now, but the plan remains & we hope to be raising that average significantly, with luck starting next year, & to continue doing so for as long as we can.

[nissannewby]

The block and heater system hold quite a bit of fluid.

And yes the later intercooled 4.2s didnt have water cooled turbos.