Manual grabbers

[YNOT]

G'day all.

Another manual grabber slipped through the cracks just before while the admin team wasn't looking. If you do happen to see this happening and admin are sleeping you can sometimes (but not always) slow them down by sending them a message.
Default profile settings mean these people won't get a private message notification pop up but I believe they will get a visitor message notification at the top right of the screen if you send a visitor message.

You can send a visitor message by clicking on their user name and looking at their profile, the visitor message option is in their profile.

We can't stop all of them but if we work together we can get most of them.

Cheers

Tony

[Clunk]

cheers Tony, as always will be on the look out when I'm around

[Bob]

G'day all.

Another manual grabber slipped through the cracks just before while the admin team wasn't looking. If you do happen to see this happening and admin are sleeping you can sometimes (but not always) slow them down by sending them a message.
Default profile settings mean these people won't get a private message notification pop up but I believe they will get a visitor message notification at the top right of the screen if you send a visitor message.

You can send a visitor message by clicking on their user name and looking at their profile, the visitor message option is in their profile.

We can't stop all of them but if we work together we can get most of them.

Cheers

Tony

Yeah sorry Tony only caught him after 25 Posts. I should have been more alert

[timbar]

i caught him at about 15 posts and didnt kknow who to contact i sent AB a pm but got no reply which is all good but just as a sugestion ......a list of people we can contact with the power of the forum be put somewhere for such problems may arise .....i could see it comming but didnt know what to do

Sorry guys
Timbar

[YNOT]

Yeah sorry Tony only caught him after 25 Posts. I should have been more alert

Don't feel bad Bob, none of us are getting paid for this.
This forum is such a great place to be that we all take pride in it and want to protect it. The manuals are a great resource which we don't mind sharing with new forum members who are contributing, but we feel almost violated when someone takes them without contributing anything, like they've stolen them.

Tony

P.S. Bob have you got my phone number?

[YNOT]

i caught him at about 15 posts and didnt kknow who to contact i sent AB a pm but got no reply which is all good but just as a sugestion ......a list of people we can contact with the power of the forum be put somewhere for such problems may arise .....i could see it comming but didnt know what to do

Sorry guys
Timbar

At the moment AB and myself are doing all the moderating, work commitments have reduced the amount of time Paul and Wayne can be on the forum.

Tony

[Bob]

Don't feel bad Bob, none of us are getting paid for this.
This forum is such a great place to be that we all take pride in it and want to protect it. The manuals are a great resource which we don't mind sharing with new forum members who are contributing, but we feel almost violated when someone takes them without contributing anything, like they've stolen them.

Tony

P.S. Bob have you got my phone number?

No I havnt Tony . Just a suggestion perhaps Nobody can get manuals after 25 Posts until authorised by a Moderator. Dont know whether this could be arranged

[YNOT]

No I havnt Tony . Just a suggestion perhaps Nobody can get manuals after 25 Posts until authorised by a Moderator. Dont know whether this could be arranged

I'll PM you my number Bob.

Your idea and a few others have been discussed by admin in the past. We may need to discuss it again.

Tony

[timbar]

No I havnt Tony . Just a suggestion perhaps Nobody can get manuals after 25 Posts until authorised by a Moderator. Dont know whether this could be arranged

yeah thats a better idea is it posoible to have to PM to be able to download and that way you can look at the posts and either initiate and extra 25 posts if they are SH@t posts or just decline alltogether and bann them ??

[katwoman]

Robbery in broad daylight? Timbar's idea is a good one ( for a change). But may make your workload heavier ? A 24 or 12 hour period to wait for manual shouldnt be that painful.
I'll do what I can obviously.

[timbar]

Robbery in broad daylight? Timbar's idea is a good one ( for a change). But may make your workload heavier ? A 24 or 12 hour period to wait for manual shouldnt be that painful.
I'll do what I can obviously.


oh what are you trying to say KAT ?????????????????????????? :frown:
:frown:

[Patrolute4x4]

Death to manual grabbers

[katwoman]

Death to manual grabbers

Hey Mate, welcome to forum, but please post an introduction. It is a curtesy to other users. You may find you even like it here

[YNOT]

Death to manual grabbers

You're GOOOONE!

Thanks for the heads up guys, good to talk to you Bob.

Tony

[katwoman]

Well done, Tony.. 2 in broad daylight ?
They're obviously scared of night shift security !!!
Poor guy had no chance !

[Maxhead]

You're GOOOONE!

Thanks for the heads up guys, good to talk to you Bob.

Tony

HAHAHAHAHAHAH, funny as.
This guy obviously wasn't even reading any posts ......I was wondering how long it was gonna take..LOL

[AB]

Death to manual grabbers

You were doing fine mate and giving some half effort to welcome members, etc but we're big on just introducing yourself to the community which is scattered all over the forum but you chose to ignore it...

I agree with Tony in banning you for a cheeky comment like that.

It costs about $20 to get a manual on Ebay but all we really expect here for the free manuals is an intro about yourself and your Patrol and just welcome some members like you were doing and don't ever be a smartass...One thing that will never be on this forum is cheeky little sh!ts mate!

[Maxhead]

You were doing fine mate and giving some half effort to welcome members, etc but we're big on just introducing yourself to the community which is scattered all over the forum but you chose to ignore it...

I agree with Tony in banning you for a cheeky comment like that.

It costs about $20 to get a manual on Ebay but all we really expect here for the free manuals is an intro about yourself and your Patrol and just welcome some members like you were doing and don't ever be a smartass...One thing that will never be on this forum is cheeky little sh!ts mate!

Nicely put mate!

[HippoNZ]

You were doing fine mate and giving some half effort to welcome members, etc but we're big on just introducing yourself to the community which is scattered all over the forum but you chose to ignore it...

I agree with Tony in banning you for a cheeky comment like that.

It costs about $20 to get a manual on Ebay but all we really expect here for the free manuals is an intro about yourself and your Patrol and just welcome some members like you were doing and don't ever be a smartass...One thing that will never be on this forum is cheeky little sh!ts mate!

haha that is classic! nice work mate

[Sir Roofy]

your the man andy

tony your the man
excellent work done by admin and moderator

[AB]

your the man andy

tony your the man
excellent work done by admin and moderator

Tonys the man, I was actually watching the new videos that members have posted...LMAO

[Bigrig]

What? What happened?? LOL

Saw him earlier, but he was fairly slowly paced for a spammer, so wasn't sure ..

Glad I never make any smart@rse comments!! lmfao

[NissanGQ4.2]

i caught him at about 15 posts and didnt kknow who to contact i sent AB a pm but got no reply which is all good but just as a sugestion ......a list of people we can contact with the power of the forum be put somewhere for such problems may arise .....i could see it comming but didnt know what to do

Sorry guys
Timbar

Do what I did, bookmark this thread http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?3105-Forum-Contacts under your favorites, and at the smell of a manual grabber do a group PM.

Sorry guys haven't been on 2day.............2 busy sitting outside drinking beside my fire pit :)

[Bigrig]

I'm still of the firm opinion that you take it down - people can have it, but after 25 posts (or whatever arbitrary amount), they have to email AB or one of the moderators for a link to download it ... removes all of the headache in having to 'police' the site and at least then you have a valid email address for each member ...

But what do I know!!! LOL

[Sir Roofy]

Another good idea

[AB]

I'm still of the firm opinion that you take it down - people can have it, but after 25 posts (or whatever arbitrary amount), they have to email AB or one of the moderators for a link to download it ... removes all of the headache in having to 'police' the site and at least then you have a valid email address for each member ...

But what do I know!!! LOL

I know and It's a great idea but unfortunately my provider doesnt allow unlimited bandwidth and we're on the highest level ATM which is called the Gold Platnium...lol

I need to find a provider who will give unlimited bandwidth I guess...

[AB]

The other thing too is if I had of found a site like this back 5 years ago with my other 4wd's I would have been so appreciative of the resources on here for free in one place.

From all the vehicle manuals, reference documents, suppliments, camping, safety and recovery manuals, etc all laid out nicely...

I would of being so appreciative of this and had respect!!!

[Bigrig]

I know and It's a great idea but my provider doesnt allow unlimited bandwidth and we're on the highest level ATM which is called the Gold Platnium...lol

I need to find a provider who will give unlimited bandwidth I guess...

What about on a rapid share account?? $59 a year I think isn't it?? I'm happy to use my account for it if you want. They email you, you verify their request, let me know in your good time (so you can see if they keep posting etc), and I'll email them the link.

[the evil twin]

Not wanting to start a poof fight as I am genuinely intrigued. Whats the big deal with "manual grabbing" ?

I don't quite understand what the problem is... almost all the manuals and guides I have seen on any Forums have originated elsewhere anyway and often with no acknolwedgement of the origin which makes it impossible to see where the Document originated.

Seeing as how "anyone" can access the Forum and read the posts I must be missing something as to why they have 'free' access to the posts, problems and solutions yet not the manuals, guides and bibles. An example would be the documents from EMA and WAPOL that are freely available elsewhere yet need a 25 post 'price' for the ones hosted on here to be accessed.

Just curious is all and not supporting any smartrrses... they usually get their just rewards in other ways.

[growler2058]

I missed the whole bloody lot was preserving my chilli crop and whalla had a weird no message pm and deleted it!!

[AB]

Thats a fair comment ET and I'll explain below.

When I started the site I was just on the Bronze hosting plan, then with the manuals on the site it went to Silver plan, gold plan and now on Platnium plan...lol

The site was actually running out of memory allowance each month which could slow the forum or even stop it alltogether until next month. I had to put some kind of restriction on it to try and keep the forum running and to keep costs down.

I have only recently jumped up to the highest level of web hosting service and I'm too reluctant to change providers in fear of loosing Google rankings which I have spent a year on working it up.

I'm about to go away for Easter but when I get back lets open it up so anyone can download it and we'll see what happens...I want to make sure I'm here in case it crashes, etc.

If I forget then if someone can remind me that would be fantastic...

I agree with you though Scotty, It's just frustrating and no point in moderating the people who just want the manual only.

If they download it with ease they might even hang around too so lets give that a whirl after Easter.

[the evil twin]

Thanks for the clarification AB...

You certainly don't want to be making a rod for your own back and others with the "moderating issues" thats for sure but it is nice to get something back in the form of a kosher Forum member for the efforts eh.

Those who know me know that I am all for helping anyone with any info I can no questions asked. I can also vouch that means one gets taken advantage of (perhaps I should say shafted) from time to time however which is a tad frustrating.

Anyway, as I said it just sparked my curiousity more than anything and happy to support the Forum and the Policy as is seen fit.

[Bigrig]

Not wanting to start a poof fight as I am genuinely intrigued. Whats the big deal with "manual grabbing" ?

I don't quite understand what the problem is... almost all the manuals and guides I have seen on any Forums have originated elsewhere anyway and often with no acknolwedgement of the origin which makes it impossible to see where the Document originated.

Seeing as how "anyone" can access the Forum and read the posts I must be missing something as to why they have 'free' access to the posts, problems and solutions yet not the manuals, guides and bibles. An example would be the documents from EMA and WAPOL that are freely available elsewhere yet need a 25 post 'price' for the ones hosted on here to be accessed.

Just curious is all and not supporting any smartrrses... they usually get their just rewards in other ways.

I asked the same thing when I first got in here ET ... I'm sorta fine with everyone just having access immediately to a degree, as it stops having to read 25 posts of sh!t when they spam to get it, and takes the headache away from getting people to comply, but that said, it is a resource that goes well beyond the information posted on here, costs to buy in the open market, and most importantly, separates the forum from others where all we ask is for involvement (genuine) and make a small effort to get something that they have obviously not been able to get elsewhere without outlaying their hard earned ... double edge sword either way, but I'm still of the opinion it is simpler to just have it as a download via an emailed link ... takes all the management away ...

[xtreme patrol]

I recon if you just put a text file inside the zip saying that you must contact the admin for the real file that way if they just put 25 posts worth of $hit they just wasted there time

[Finly Owner]

OK so what do the other sites do? Can you just go and download them there? No membership. No posts.

Throw an idea right out of the left field, If we make them available no posts, no membership, but payable say $5.00 per down load using a paypal account(this to be a link to Andy's paypal a/c he would have with ebay.)

Tim

[Finly Owner]

Thanks for the clarification AB...

You certainly don't want to be making a rod for your own back and others with the "moderating issues" thats for sure but it is nice to get something back in the form of a kosher Forum member for the efforts eh.

Those who know me know that I am all for helping anyone with any info I can no questions asked. I can also vouch that means one gets taken advantage of (perhaps I should say shafted) from time to time however which is a tad frustrating.

Anyway, as I said it just sparked my curiousity more than anything and happy to support the Forum and the Policy as is seen fit.
And help you certainly have done since you've joined ET!

Tim

[katwoman]

I'm actually in two minds. I didnt even know about the manual when I joined, I was ( and am) here more for info on patrols that have been tried and tested by real drivers.
Dont get me wrong, I have downloaded the manual, for reading when I'm bored. Simply because I was taught if you dont know the basics about your car, then you dont deserve one.
At the end of the day those that want to hang around, will.
Those that want to grab the manual, will ( or try at least)
keeping in mind that you make it free for all users, night shift security will have to be disbanded and you all will probaly suffer the consequences. (pml)

[nowoolies]

I'm actually in two minds. I didnt even know about the manual when I joined, I was ( and am) here more for info on patrols that have been tried and tested by real drivers.
Dont get me wrong, I have downloaded the manual, for reading when I'm bored. Simply because I was taught if you dont know the basics about your car, then you dont deserve one.
At the end of the day those that want to hang around, will.
Those that want to grab the manual, will ( or try at least)
keeping in mind that you make it free for all users, night shift security will have to be disbanded and you all will probaly suffer the consequences. (pml)

yer x 2 lmao

[Dark 1]

I really don't know what to do about this problem. I personally haven't downloaded a manual [never really thought about it].
What pisses me off is that these KNOBS annoy my mates on here & make life hard for the moderators. Really is that hard to be a part of a like minded group & put some genuinely interesting posts up, you never know you might even enjoy it.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[the ferret]

Make em ask for it Andy, then you can check their posts and send it, would this work??

[Bigrig]

I really don't know what to do about this problem. I personally haven't downloaded a manual [never really thought about it].
What pisses me off is that these KNOBS annoy my mates on here & make life hard for the moderators. Really is that hard to be a part of a like minded group & put some genuinely interesting posts up, you never know you might even enjoy it.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Yep - it sort if filters out the crap from the get go - I'd rather have 200 contributing members than 2000 users who you rarely hear from (if at all after they get the manual).

[HippoNZ]

Fair enough making it easy for them to download, but! the way I see it is you give some and get some, a 2 way street you might say. I don't particularly like the fact that some fella just comes on here and either posts sh!t then buggers off with the manual orrrrr just comes on here and downloads the manual ( if AB were to change the rules) because at the end of the day they are wasting the accounts bandwidth for tossers. If your on here getting amongst it I think it is then the privilege having access to the manuals for sharing info, photos etc otherwise we don't get the bandwidth for us people on here who deserve it. I just don't like the idea of getting something for nothing in return.
Thats my rant lol

[Bigrig]

Fair enough making it easy for them to download, but! the way I see it is you give some and get some, a 2 way street you might say. I don't particularly like the fact that some fella just comes on here and either posts sh!t then buggers off with the manual orrrrr just comes on here and downloads the manual ( if AB were to change the rules) because at the end of the day they are wasting the accounts bandwidth for tossers. If your on here getting amongst it I think it is then the privilege having access to the manuals for sharing info, photos etc otherwise we don't get the bandwidth for us people on here who deserve it. I just don't like the idea of getting something for nothing in return.
Thats my rant lol

And like so many others, you're spot on mate!! It's a small problem really, but impacting and important enough to have this level of response and passion from the members who truly appreciate the place.

[Dhuck]

Your thoughts on the matter as you were explaining last night is the right idea I think mate

[timbar]

I recon if you just put a text file inside the zip saying that you must contact the admin for the real file that way if they just put 25 posts worth of $hit they just wasted there time

zip files can be password protected may be they can download the zip file then have to PM Andy to get the Password to unlock the zipped manual in which time Andy can check there posts to determine they are eligable

[Finly Owner]

zip files can be password protected may be they can download the zip file then have to PM Andy to get the Password to unlock the zipped manual in which time Andy can check there posts to determine they are eligable

Bloody good idea too.

[wildgu6]

I know and It's a great idea but unfortunately my provider doesnt allow unlimited bandwidth and we're on the highest level ATM which is called the Gold Platnium...lol

I need to find a provider who will give unlimited bandwidth I guess...

Andy havent been on for few days, so missed all this ?? some good ideas on stopping manual grabbers and havent read the whole thread yet, but what if you were to take the manuals off the site and just have a sticky telling members if they are after a manual they need to PM any of the mod's, and if they qualify (what ever the requirements are) the mod can then email the file to them??? might be a bit taxing on the mod's though. Not sure how it all works. Not even sure if im thinkin straight right now but any way if there is a way to stop these scum bags, im in. they just ruin what you guys have worked so hard for. Good work to all the mod's, love your work guys.

[molongmick]

I'm not sure about the reasons of people trying to grab manuals for free. Maybe there should be a small anual fee, paid to ADMIN, which would allow two things, 1. funds to keep the site running and 2. a full finacial membership status which would allow paid memebrs to downlad any manual of their choice.

I know some othere sites have been asked to remove manuals due to copyright infringements, not sure if this would apply here.

[the evil twin]

I'm not sure about the reasons of people trying to grab manuals for free. Maybe there should be a small anual fee, paid to ADMIN, which would allow two things, 1. funds to keep the site running and 2. a full finacial membership status which would allow paid memebrs to downlad any manual of their choice.

I know some othere sites have been asked to remove manuals due to copyright infringements, not sure if this would apply here.

Hmmm... paying can be a dodgy thing... I reckon you will get nastygrams from Organisations that have made the documents free to the Public if you start charging but that would need someone to complain to the publishing organisition I spose.
I think there is one or more WA Police docs around that have a disclaimer saying they are not 'designed' for dissemination to the general public. Doesn't say you can't just says they are not designed for that purpose and the WA Police were handing the older versions out to anyone who asked until stocks run out.
That EMA 4WD Skills document as indeed all there open docs have a copyright saying they are available for "non-commercial individual use"

In a way the manual links are pretty much an online library... just depends how many hoops you want the 'borrower' to jump thru to get the info

I have no real issue either way but I don't think charging a few bucks is the answer

[molongmick]

I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say, I was not indicating to charge for the documents, but make documents able for 'full members'. It was just a thought.

[nowoolies]

i think if anyone want`s a copy of a manual
they should ......after 25 post`s put a request in to one of the moderators
not have them available after 25 post`s just for the hell of it
then if they are being part of our community then ok if not .........................bugger off!!!!!

[Clunk]

looks like I've missed some more excitement this afternoon. I'm a firm believer of "You don't get something for nothing", that's all I've got to say seein as it looks like it mostly been said already. I enjoy my time on here and would rather not see the site being filled with spam and nonsensical posts (apart from mine that is hahahahahaha) from people to tight to spend 20 bucks on ebay, so I'll be sitting on the fence and say I'm happy with whatever way is chosen to handle it.

[Finly Owner]

Maybe ask them for their LIBRARY CARD once they have posted 25posts. LOL

[Silver]

I don't think I have an answer to this, but I would have been a bit sad to have been banned back in Feb :-)

As I said at the time it was easy to say something relevant (well I thought it was relevant :-) ) and 25 posts went by pretty fast!

[Clunk]

I don't think I have an answer to this, but I would have been a bit sad to have been banned back in Feb :-)

As I said at the time it was easy to say something relevant (well I thought it was relevant :-) ) and 25 posts went by pretty fast!

That's it exactly, it's not hard and doesn't take that long............. people are just to impatient and want something for nuthin.

[the evil twin]

I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say, I was not indicating to charge for the documents, but make documents able for 'full members'. It was just a thought.

Ahhh... sorry, Mick... yeah, thats another option and not a bad one either.

Could also not bother with the Doc's and just have a link to where the Doc's 'home' sites are as well I 'spose and let "others" have to supply the Bandwidth and deal with Hosting issues.

Anyway, the Lord High Imperious One sounds like he is going to have a tinker when the Hols are over ( have a good one AB )

[MQ MAD]

Why parade manuals are avaliable for download ???
When a member posts "X" amount of posts,send them a PM telling "Manuals are avaliable for download"
This will eliminate spammers,or just post whores pushing up their post count , to then bugger off

Think of it as a reward for those who hang around

[NissanGQ4.2]

I have held back from commenting to this thread, but now i shall speak my mind.

I wouldn't say the manuals a paraded, anyone that does a search on gq manuals....will get this site.

All forums on various topics that i have come across require a certain amount of posts before accessing files.

Why have a 25 post count................

1st. Well besides Andy ( AB ) spending countless hours searching, there are a few other members that have spent there time searching for and have uploaded manuals / files for other members 2 have access 2. Yes I am one of them , I don't post my files for everyone 2 download due 2 the sites 25 post policy, I could quite easily post a direct link, and i would if i didn't think the 25 post rule wasn't fair. Making 25 post isn't hard and i'm guessing Andy hopes by the time the new member has posted 25 posts that they stick around and contribute there knowledge 2 the forum in-turn making the site grow.

2nd. As Andy has already posted.... cost / bandwidth issues, this is a free site, besides some of the donations that has happened, and recently some advertising......its money coming out of Andy's pocket 2 provide the members with something they enjoy, Information on Patrols.

- Bandwidth issues for the site could be decreased by hosting the manuals elsewhere, but that would still be at a cost, and yes other members do host manuals on there rapidshare / fileshare etc....accounts. The downside 2 others hosting is, links often become inactive due 2 the member moving on / deleting the file etc.....and this has already happened.

There is a lot more i could add 2 this thread but it would take me a year 2 write up, so i won't.

If a member doesn't want 2 make the effort 2 post 25 posts, its easy don't become a member, do what others do....buy it or search for it elsewhere. Its that easy.

Deep breath say no more

[Archie]

Not meaning to throw a spanner in the works, but what about people like me who don't always have access to the net. I am probably what you would call a manual grabber because I did download it not long after I joined and before 25 posts ( I still haven't got 25 posts). However when I can get access I visit the site to read about what other patrollers get up to without posting a comment. It is the best site I have come across and I like the fact that undesirables are booted off and bad language is not tolerated.

Just my 2 cents worth

[NissanGQ4.2]

Not meaning to throw a spanner in the works, but what about people like me who don't always have access to the net. I am probably what you would call a manual grabber because I did download it not long after I joined and before 25 posts ( I still haven't got 25 posts). However when I can get access I visit the site to read about what other patrollers get up to without posting a comment. It is the best site I have come across and I like the fact that undesirables are booted off and bad language is not tolerated.

Just my 2 cents worth

can understand that 2 Archie, hence why a new member could get 25 posts within a few minutes if they welcomed every new member, have access 2 the manual and not been frowned upon. Its not so much about grabbing a manual and never returning, its the cr!p they post up 2 get the 25 posts that gets them banned.

[Bigrig]

Not meaning to throw a spanner in the works, but what about people like me who don't always have access to the net. I am probably what you would call a manual grabber because I did download it not long after I joined and before 25 posts ( I still haven't got 25 posts). However when I can get access I visit the site to read about what other patrollers get up to without posting a comment. It is the best site I have come across and I like the fact that undesirables are booted off and bad language is not tolerated.

Just my 2 cents worth

As said mate, at least you take the time to tell us and offer comment. These other clowns simply type "that's good", "top tip" etc etc to 25 (usually older) posts and then we all have to read through their dribble to get the banter back on track ... thanks for your input mate though, as it helps with the decision as to how to to about sorting it for the future ..

[Silver]

can understand that 2 Archie, hence why a new member could get 25 posts within a few minutes if they welcomed every new member, have access 2 the manual and not been frowned upon. Its not so much about grabbing a manual and never returning, its the cr!p they post up 2 get the 25 posts that gets them banned.

It's like the smart arse factor on top of abusing the work AB and the mods do running the place, and those who have hunted up the manuals in the first place??

[GUtsy ute]

So can I grab 3 manuals with 75 posts? LOL!
Seriously though, it annoys me how some people are always on the lookout for some thing for nothing.
I agree with a lot of the suggestions put forward, especially the one where the minimum 25 poster has to PM a Mod for a link to download the Manuals, so they can be checked out to see if they are just posting stuff like BigRig said(Top Tip, That's Good etc).
Why should they benefit from someone elses' hard work for nothing?
Steam released, Bundy kicking in, back to reading other posts.

[snicko]

Been thinking about this problem but don't understand the behind the scenes of a forum but can the following work?

Once someone has signed up they be automatically directed to a welcome site? Not the whole forum until they say Hi and introduce themselves. (stop spam)

Ask on the sign up site what they are looking for. (determine intention) Maybe not have the manuals as a tick option and once they have posted 25-30 posts reward them with a one time use password to the manuals? BUT only if they play by the rules.

Not sure if it would make more work but what I understand now happens is you guys are always on the look out for non genuine forum scum.
May make your work easier but AB's worse?? Not sure..

[NissanGQ4.2]

So can I grab 3 manuals with 75 posts? LOL!/

You certainly could, but you will first need 2 tell us in 25 words.....i mean post as to why you would like the manuals *LMAO*

[the evil twin]

OK, been reading the posts for a coupla days and I'll have to fess up to still not getting it... :1087:

The EMA 4WD manual for example is freely available to anyone on planet Earth with a PC and an Internet connection. EMA have no restrictions whatever to access their documents, no "must have x posts", no "must register", no "must contribute", no "we have found a very helpful document but you can either stumble over it yourself with Google or jump thru the hoops and we'll tell you". You just go to the EMA site and there it is. The only proviso is noone can use it for commercial gain

Don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no issue with accessibility levels imposed on stuff that has been collated and published by OR is of some level of intellectual property of the Forum/Members but I just cannot see why there is so much feeling for restricting 3rd party documents or info where perhaps a sticky of a "Handy Documents" Link would suffice?

Anyway, one thing is for sure, it is certainly a strangely emotive subject eh... ;)

[katwoman]

You know, Evil, I think it's just a case of most here are protective of anything on this forum..
Pure and simple. It is almost like one big happy family. And helping to make the forum grow. As i've said before, there are those that will stick around regardless.
As Biggus Riggus said in another thread, it's a helpful forum in many ways, and I think that is part of it.
We just want to protect our own, while the 'family' grows.
I dont walk into someone's house and take something cos it's free without at least a thank you.
Always good to see the 'other side' of any argument, but I will protect my security team til the end..
( I know why you're the 'evil twin'.. pml)

[timbar]

You know, Evil, I think it's just a case of most here are protective of anything on this forum..
Pure and simple. It is almost like one big happy family. And helping to make the forum grow. As i've said before, there are those that will stick around regardless.
As Biggus Riggus said in another thread, it's a helpful forum in many ways, and I think that is part of it.
We just want to protect our own, while the 'family' grows.
I dont walk into someone's house and take something cos it's free without at least a thank you.
Always good to see the 'other side' of any argument, but I will protect my security team til the end..
( I know why you're the 'evil twin'.. pml)

Totaly agree good post

[my third 256]

You know, Evil, I think it's just a case of most here are protective of anything on this forum..
Pure and simple. It is almost like one big happy family. And helping to make the forum grow. As i've said before, there are those that will stick around regardless.
As Biggus Riggus said in another thread, it's a helpful forum in many ways, and I think that is part of it.
We just want to protect our own, while the 'family' grows.
I dont walk into someone's house and take something cos it's free without at least a thank you.
Always good to see the 'other side' of any argument, but I will protect my security team til the end..
( I know why you're the 'evil twin'.. pml)
like the new avatar

[YNOT]

OK, been reading the posts for a coupla days and I'll have to fess up to still not getting it... :1087:

The EMA 4WD manual for example is freely available to anyone on planet Earth with a PC and an Internet connection. EMA have no restrictions whatever to access their documents, no "must have x posts", no "must register", no "must contribute", no "we have found a very helpful document but you can either stumble over it yourself with Google or jump thru the hoops and we'll tell you". You just go to the EMA site and there it is. The only proviso is noone can use it for commercial gain

Don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no issue with accessibility levels imposed on stuff that has been collated and published by OR is of some level of intellectual property of the Forum/Members but I just cannot see why there is so much feeling for restricting 3rd party documents or info where perhaps a sticky of a "Handy Documents" Link would suffice?

Anyway, one thing is for sure, it is certainly a strangely emotive subject eh... ;)

The main reason for imposing the 25 post rule is to stop hordes of people downloading it. The manuals are big documents and everytime someone downloads a manual it uses up AB's bandwidth allocation. AB already has the forum on the highest bandwidth plan and if that bandwidth is used up the forum will either slow right down or stop, something that none of us want to see happen.

Tony

[the evil twin]

The main reason for imposing the 25 post rule is to stop hordes of people downloading it. The manuals are big documents and everytime someone downloads a manual it uses up AB's bandwidth allocation. AB already has the forum on the highest bandwidth plan and if that bandwidth is used up the forum will either slow right down or stop, something that none of us want to see happen.

Tony

Hence just put up a link to the Authors website and save our Bandwidth for us.

As I said I just don't see the point of hosting other Organisations stuff... absolutely agree that we have something pointing at it tho and maybe have a copy stored away in case a Doc is archived or the originating Website goes but thats pretty rare outside of the Docs that originate from Torrents and/or Pirates.

Then "visitors" can surf the links after they register at no heartache to them or us BUT they still have to be productive to use up Bandwidth for stuff that is only available here or at other restricted sites.

It does essentially boil down to Bandwidth thing we are discussing as all of the "knowledge and posts" is viewable by anyone on the 'Net (member or not) so anyone wanting to register has a 100% visibility of the site, members and culuture from dot... which is a darn good thing I reckon.

[GUte]

There are manuals avail from here??
Goes to have a look see

[Bulbous]

LOL, I was half way down the second page when I realised what a manual grabber was. I though it was some sort of cool mod.

Reason I joined, I am pretty much a newbie in 4x4 having started just over a 18 months ago in a Dodge Durango (horrible car - don't go there).
I recently bought a Patrol and I love it - but I don't understand it. I want to learn more about my car and all aspects of it's operation - pretty sure the manuals won't help there. There's no shortcut to knowledge, you can only gain it by a long process of reading and absorbing information.
So apology in advance, I will probably lurk a lot of your mechanical threads but will rarely post since I don't want to spam you with what is probably incorrect information.

However if I think that I've got valid and good information I will certainly post it. I also feel quite strongly that if I only joined yesterday then I have absolutely no right to welcome anyone to YOUR site.

Sorry to be a windbag

[growler2058]

No worries mate join in wherever And whenever ya want mAte there are all sorts of topics on here some good giggles to be had

[DX grunt]

I'm still of the firm opinion that you take it down - people can have it, but after 25 posts (or whatever arbitrary amount), they have to email AB or one of the moderators for a link to download it ... removes all of the headache in having to 'police' the site and at least then you have a valid email address for each member ...

But what do I know!!! LOL

I second that.

[trollman]

I took me quite sometime to genrate 25 posts.

If a dude is working on his patrol has greasy hands etc, halfway thru a repair job and needs some info.
You will gain a friend with immediate satisfactory help. Not By hindering I.e. 25 posts & calling them scum etc.

You lose a prospective member.

How many members on this forum? How many regular contributors?

This whole notion of 'protecting' the forum is reflecting badly on this community. Creating judgements on people that are seeking (urgent?) information.

Have a look at this from an outsiders perspective. You may not like what you see!

[Maxhead]

Fair point Trollman.

Unfortunately most do not want to contribute anything and just want the manual for nothing. It's like saying I want diesel to help my car run but I do not want to pay for it.

I think having a 25 post limit before you can download is very fair and people trying to post 25 posts of rubbish just to get it should be banned IMO.
In your case you have been a long time member and a small poster(and nothing wrong with that). You could always PM one of the admins or mods and get the manual. I see nothing wrong with that.

It's not in the spirit of this forum to call anyone scum because they want the manual instantly , we just try not to give them the satisfaction of getting something for nothing.

Each to their own I suppose and the manual is for sale on eBay. No one is stopping anyone going to buy one.

[nowoolies]

I took me quite sometime to genrate 25 posts.

If a dude is working on his patrol has greasy hands etc, halfway thru a repair job and needs some info.
You will gain a friend with immediate satisfactory help. Not By hindering I.e. 25 posts & calling them scum etc.

You lose a prospective member.

How many members on this forum? How many regular contributors?

This whole notion of 'protecting' the forum is reflecting badly on this community. Creating judgements on people that are seeking (urgent?) information.

Have a look at this from an outsiders perspective. You may not like what you see!

if the requried information is that urgent ........buy it on ebay YOU WILL GET IT QUICKER!!!!

so far anyone who has grabbed a manual is never heard from again ,

no this is not hindering. if outsider`s dont like the way OUR forum is run dont come here hindering US ,
and NO it dont reflect BADLY on OUR COMMUNITY as we all contribuite very regular, most every day.

and if a dude has greasy hands............ well he shouldnt be on the keyboard.

join in be part of our community have a laugh theres plenty of them
and bucket loads of info, tonnes of that,
with extreamly helpfull people willing to give up their time to help those in need with problems on their vehicle,..... that never stop`s.

and yes i have strong views on our community

[trollman]

Thanks Nispat,
I downloaded the manuals sometime ago.
I just wanted to defend people that could have been valuable contributors, but have been dis-encourage due to the notion of 'exclusivity'.

My main point is 'how many members v how many regular contributors'

I consider that a person requiring the manual 'info' is the person that can relatively easily be engaged and encouraged to further contribute.

a requirement of 25 posts is creating the I'll feeling, filling the forum with useless posts, generating the need to delete said posts and banning someone at a time when their main priority is to fix the patrol. The very reason why someone would attend a forum.

Turn it around - the manual will encourage people here, find away (communicate) to encourage them stay and contribute.

[trollman]

Ok,

Ban me, remove my account.

Enjoy your exclusivity!

I am a manual grabber. I gabbed them a day or two before the 25 post rule and copped abuse for it even though I joined the forum in June 2010.

[Bob]

Ok,

Ban me, remove my account.

Enjoy your exclusivity!

I am a manual grabber. I gabbed them a day or two before the 25 post rule and copped abuse for it even though I joined the forum in June 2010.

Everyone on this Forum is allowed to express there opinion. You have stated that you dont think we should have the rule and that is OK. One of the reasons for the 25 post rule is to encourage Members to join in.
I dont agree with some of the rules of our Society but I have to obey them.
Dont take any of this personally and just enjoy the fellowship and sharing of knowledge

[Maxhead]

Ok,

Ban me, remove my account.

Enjoy your exclusivity!

I am a manual grabber. I gabbed them a day or two before the 25 post rule and copped abuse for it even though I joined the forum in June 2010.

No one needs to be banned...why?

You have been around for a while and have contributed 36 posts . They were not rubbish..they were decent posts so there is no issue.
What this forum is trying to stop is people coming in and grabbing the manual for nothing and pi55ing OFF!.
You have to realize someone has to host this forum and pay for the bandwidth associated with all the down/up loads, so having to contribute a fraction for the manual is not too much to ask....is it???

[nowoolies]

Ok,

Ban me, remove my account.

Enjoy your exclusivity!

I am a manual grabber. I gabbed them a day or two before the 25 post rule and copped abuse for it even though I joined the forum in June 2010.
WTF ............bye bye

[trollman]

Your're are right Nispat. Not too much to ask for. But there has to be a better way.

How many members v how many regular contributors?

Why is this divide so great?

Maybe the link to; or upon request. Would be the best answer.
But I don't agree with calling people scum.

Trying to point out that if someone is in need of the manuals and creating a 25 post rule, and expecting 25 posts of 'value' when the dude may just want to repair his vehicle and get out wheeling.



If so many sign up just for the manuals, how is it that so few contribute, but are still members?

[Maxhead]

Your're are right Nispat. Not too much to ask for. But there has to be a better way.

How many members v how many regular contributors?

Why is this divide so great?

Maybe the link to; or upon request. Would be the best answer.
But I don't agree with calling people scum.

Trying to point out that if someone is in need of the manuals and creating a 25 post rule, and expecting 25 posts of 'value' when the dude may just want to repair his vehicle and get out wheeling.



If so many sign up just for the manuals, how is it that so few contribute, but are still members?

Agree, There is a better way and having these discussions will hopefully resolve in a better and a fairer way for all.

As for the divide between regular contributors and members is the same with all forums. People join the forum, grab the information they need and go away. Most forums have some kind of restrictions and some you need to join to even look at the info. So this is pretty uniform between forums and I don't think this divide will be reduced.

As I mentioned before it is definitely in the spirit of this forum to call people names, etc, thats why this forum is much more friendlier than others. You will see by some of the member quotes" I came here to get some info but I'm still here after months".

[nowoolies]

Your're are right Nispat. Not too much to ask for. But there has to be a better way.

How many members v how many regular contributors?

Why is this divide so great?

Maybe the link to; or upon request. Would be the best answer.
But I don't agree with calling people scum.

Trying to point out that if someone is in need of the manuals and creating a 25 post rule, and expecting 25 posts of 'value' when the dude may just want to repair his vehicle and get out wheeling.



If so many sign up just for the manuals, how is it that so few contribute, but are still members?

whats your problem .....nit picking
just enjoy the forum as we do, it`s a bucket load of fun and it`s not all about our PATROLS
where do you get you figures from ????
im on just about every day, and not a day goes by without a heap of laughs most nothing to do with our NISSANS
and every day people are helping each other from all corners of the world, not just Auzzziestralia

[Bigrig]

a requirement of 25 posts is creating the I'll feeling, filling the forum with useless posts, generating the need to delete said posts and banning someone at a time when their main priority is to fix the patrol. The very reason why someone would attend a forum.

Turn it around - the manual will encourage people here, find away (communicate) to encourage them stay and contribute.

Have to say I agree with you Trollman - read my posts above as testament to that. There has to be a better way and such a seemingly innocuous issue is breeding heaps of issues ... I still like the concept that the manual is freely available however you simply have to email one of the admin/mods for a copy - they take the responsibility for ensuring they make you feel welcome etc and hopefully you'll contribute further - if not, no harm done, no crap posts, and complete invisibility to the forum which stops these types of discussions.

As per a few others - the value of the intellectual property contained in the document is becoming less and less, but headache involved in managing it is becoming more and more ..

[Bigrig]

Ok,

Ban me, remove my account.

Enjoy your exclusivity!

I am a manual grabber. I gabbed them a day or two before the 25 post rule and copped abuse for it even though I joined the forum in June 2010.

Hope you come back mate - everyone is entitled to opinion, but that said, if everyone just understands each others thoughts on the topic, then that is what differentiates us from other forums and let's just get on with it ...

[trollman]

I do appreciate the overall good heartedness of this forum.

and I accept we can all be 'hot heads' at times.

all cool from my side.

[Bigrig]

I think a lot of the divide irrespective of the bandwidth issues etc (which are real issues and not to be dismissed) is the difference between who wants the manual for real reasons. That is, many of us get involved in the debate not really having a need for the manual as we don't do the work ourselves. I have the manual and have rarely used it, but can definitely see the value it represents to some ... that needs to not be forgotten ... doesn't change the situation regarding spammers I know, but we need to appreciate (like anything) that one mans trash is anothers treasure.

[Bigrig]

I do appreciate the overall good heartedness of this forum.

and I accept we can all be 'hot heads' at times.

all cool from my side.

Good on ya mate!! Everyone needs to not mistake passion with anger etc!! Hope you enjoy the joint and look forward to hearing your take on matters and involvement in the chats!!!

[NissanGQ4.2]

Tony what have you started

[the evil twin]

I like to help anyone with a 'Trol and a problem. I don't expect them to join my Club or any of the Forums I am a member of, indeed I don't expect anything in return. I just get a warm and fuzzy feeling for helping someone out.

I have invited people whose first post is about a problem on their vehicle to come around to my house and we have sorted it out. After genuine thanks I have never seen them since (cept on Forums) and refused any payment or gifts and simply asked them to "pass the help on to the next person they meet and we will call it square".

Ownership - In all most every case of manuals and Docs on here the publications are not "ours" and have been obtained from other sources for free. We do not own them legally or morally
Bandwidth - Easy, don't host 3rd party Docs, Post up the title, a brief review of what its about and the link to its source ( I know this isn't applicable to all Docs that are here)
Goodwill - I reckon trollman isn't far off in his appraisal. People who only want the docs will not come back after 25 posts 'cept to get more docs or will just get them elsewhere. The ZD30 Bible and the GQ manual links are available on at least 1/2 dozen other sites and forums for example. FAST is on at least 2 others and turned up here last chronologically.

Bottom line I think is the question are we here to form our own community with its entry requirements and rules or to share knowledge, experience, tips and foster goodwill to anyone who has a Patrol?.
I think the latter and then the former is the more better for it which is why in my replies to a new poster with a problem he gets an answer as well as a suggestion to post up an intro.

[Bigrig]

I like to help anyone with a 'Trol and a problem. I don't expect them to join my Club or any of the Forums I am a member of, indeed I don't expect anything in return. I just get a warm and fuzzy feeling for helping someone out.

I have invited people whose first post is about a problem on their vehicle to come around to my house and we have sorted it out. After genuine thanks I have never seen them since (cept on Forums) and refused any payment or gifts and simply asked them to "pass the help on to the next person they meet and we will call it square".

Ownership - In all most every case of manuals and Docs on here the publications are not "ours" and have been obtained from other sources for free. We do not own them legally or morally
Bandwidth - Easy, don't host 3rd party Docs, Post up the title, a brief review of what its about and the link to its source ( I know this isn't applicable to all Docs that are here)
Goodwill - I reckon trollman isn't far off in his appraisal. People who only want the docs will not come back after 25 posts 'cept to get more docs or will just get them elsewhere. The ZD30 Bible and the GQ manual links are available on at least 1/2 dozen other sites and forums for example. FAST is on at least 2 others and turned up here last chronologically.

Bottom line I think is the question are we here to form our own community with its entry requirements and rules or to share knowledge, experience, tips and foster goodwill to anyone who has a Patrol?.
I think the latter and then the former is the more better for it which is why in my replies to a new poster with a problem he gets an answer as well as a suggestion to post up an intro.

Here, here ET!!

[Maxhead]

I like to help anyone with a 'Trol and a problem. I don't expect them to join my Club or any of the Forums I am a member of, indeed I don't expect anything in return. I just get a warm and fuzzy feeling for helping someone out.

I have invited people whose first post is about a problem on their vehicle to come around to my house and we have sorted it out. After genuine thanks I have never seen them since (cept on Forums) and refused any payment or gifts and simply asked them to "pass the help on to the next person they meet and we will call it square".

Ownership - In all most every case of manuals and Docs on here the publications are not "ours" and have been obtained from other sources for free. We do not own them legally or morally
Bandwidth - Easy, don't host 3rd party Docs, Post up the title, a brief review of what its about and the link to its source ( I know this isn't applicable to all Docs that are here)
Goodwill - I reckon trollman isn't far off in his appraisal. People who only want the docs will not come back after 25 posts 'cept to get more docs or will just get them elsewhere. The ZD30 Bible and the GQ manual links are available on at least 1/2 dozen other sites and forums for example. FAST is on at least 2 others and turned up here last chronologically.

Bottom line I think is the question are we here to form our own community with its entry requirements and rules or to share knowledge, experience, tips and foster goodwill to anyone who has a Patrol?.
I think the latter and then the former is the more better for it which is why in my replies to a new poster with a problem he gets an answer as well as a suggestion to post up an intro.

Agree on most parts and it looks like the best option is not to have the manuals at all.

The problem is the people think its their god given right to have the manual just because they join up. People should adhere to the forum rules and regulations irrespective of their thoughts and feelings.
We all try and help this forum community in some way or another, and thats what its all about.

There's lots of forums where you can't even download a picture if you're not a member or not havet sufficient posts, so as I see it this forum is pretty relaxed in the way it regulates the forum .

Way I see it, lot of forums have their rules and people should respect them.

[the evil twin]

Hiya NissPat... yeah no argument from me about that

I should add... I like the idea of a "request" by PM or whatever for the Docs just to keep a handle on lurkers and mal's but in the end AB's call on how he wants to proceed gets my support no matter what the decision

[Bob]

AB has said that he is going to look at the matter when he comes back from his Easter Break. As there have been quite a number of Posts in this thread he will have plenty of input to enable him to make a decision.
Most of the Posts have quite valid points and hopefully it will be resolved to the satisfaction of most members.

[nowoolies]

onya Bob x2

[Maxhead]

AB has said that he is going to look at the matter when he comes back from his Easter Break. As there have been quite a number of Posts in this thread he will have plenty of input to enable him to make a decision.
Most of the Posts have quite valid points and hopefully it will be resolved to the satisfaction of most members.

yep, agreed and well said

We've heard all different angles on this topic...which is what is needed to make a fair decision.
No pressure AB...over to you...lol

[Yendor]

I am only new to this site but after reading this thread it is clear that there are a lot of passionate members.

I would have to agree that it is rude to just join, download the manuals and not contribute in someway.

Another way to stop spamming from people trying to reach the 25 post.

Is to keep the 25 post requirement but have 2 options when signing up.

1. Keep the original sign up as it is now.

2. Add an extra option, where for a small donation you already start with 25 post.

This would allow for the people who just wanted the manual to be able to download it without posting all the crap (I don't think this will breach copyright laws because the donation is not directly for the manual).

The second option may also motivate people to become more involved with the forum after they have the manual.

[NissanGQ4.2]

Is to keep the 25 post requirement but have 2 options when signing up.

1. Keep the original sign up as it is now.

2. Add an extra option, where for a small donation you already start with 25 post.


like your way of thinking

[katwoman]

Your're are right Nispat. Not too much to ask for. But there has to be a better way.

How many members v how many regular contributors?

Why is this divide so great?

Maybe the link to; or upon request. Would be the best answer.
But I don't agree with calling people scum.

Trying to point out that if someone is in need of the manuals and creating a 25 post rule, and expecting 25 posts of 'value' when the dude may just want to repair his vehicle and get out wheeling.



If so many sign up just for the manuals, how is it that so few contribute, but are still members?
Hey, Trollman, most know my feelings on this subject, and I'm sure it's all to do woth the technical side of things to admin, but to members ( this one anyway), it is a little more personal. And yeah, your right, nothing worse than getting half way through job and needing help.. BUT how many ppl are fixing their trolls at 3am ? I think some of the point is that if you are stuck on a job, there is someone here who'd help out, for nothing to someone they dont know. Just common curtesy and manners is all it's about. Again this is one opinion of one person who sees alot of the grabbers in the dark of night.

[Maxhead]

I am only new to this site but after reading this thread it is clear that there are a lot of passionate members.

I would have to agree that it is rude to just join, download the manuals and not contribute in someway.

Another way to stop spamming from people trying to reach the 25 post.

Is to keep the 25 post requirement but have 2 options when signing up.

1. Keep the original sign up as it is now.

2. Add an extra option, where for a small donation you already start with 25 post.

This would allow for the people who just wanted the manual to be able to download it without posting all the crap (I don't think this will breach copyright laws because the donation is not directly for the manual).

The second option may also motivate people to become more involved with the forum after they have the manual.

Another good point which is great.

As said before these manuals are readily available on the net so a donation to this forum just to get the manual is probably not the way to go. Indirectly you're asking for money for the manual.

Motivating people to hang around is very hard as once they get what they want they leave....We all certainly encourage people to hang around and see what this forum is all about besides the manuals.

Most people don't have a problem and its the very few that think its unfair to have to post 25 genuine posts.

Anyway I don't think its the manuals but people wanting something for nothing ...Just my thoughts once again

[Maxhead]

I hope I don't sound like an old winging prick with a chip on his shoulder..
I just dislike people who want something for nothing ...ex...dole bludgers !!!!!!!!!

EDIT: Sorry, straying off the subject a bit

[Yendor]

I hope I don't sound like an old winging prick with a chip on his shoulder..
I just dislike people who want something for nothing ...ex...dole bludgers !!!!!!!!!

EDIT: Sorry, straying off the subject a bit

No I don't think this at all.

With my post I was just trying to turn negatives into a positive.

I agree with you, it seem some people think we were put on this earth to do everything for them.

[nowoolies]

Hey, Trollman, most know my feelings on this subject, and I'm sure it's all to do woth the technical side of things to admin, but to members ( this one anyway), it is a little more personal. And yeah, your right, nothing worse than getting half way through job and needing help.. BUT how many ppl are fixing their trolls at 3am ? I think some of the point is that if you are stuck on a job, there is someone here who'd help out, for nothing to someone they dont know. Just common curtesy and manners is all it's about. Again this is one opinion of one person who sees alot of the grabbers in the dark of night.

onya Kat......

[Finly Owner]

LOL, I was half way down the second page when I realised what a manual grabber was. I though it was some sort of cool mod.

Reason I joined, I am pretty much a newbie in 4x4 having started just over a 18 months ago in a Dodge Durango (horrible car - don't go there).
I recently bought a Patrol and I love it - but I don't understand it. I want to learn more about my car and all aspects of it's operation - pretty sure the manuals won't help there. There's no shortcut to knowledge, you can only gain it by a long process of reading and absorbing information.
So apology in advance, I will probably lurk a lot of your mechanical threads but will rarely post since I don't want to spam you with what is probably incorrect information.

However if I think that I've got valid and good information I will certainly post it. I also feel quite strongly that if I only joined yesterday then I have absolutely no right to welcome anyone to YOUR site.

Sorry to be a windbag
If you have joined then you can welcome new members just as we have with you.

Tim

[Finly Owner]

Ok, I read all the post and spoke to.

But now I find myself summerizing this:

If you want a free manual which would normally cost $60-$80 then be a sweety and contribute 25 friendly posts and hopefully become addicted to this forum.

If they are needing an urgent answer because they are in middle of doing repair, just throw up an Intro and state you need help with.......Help is usually given to those who place Intros.....

Not hard when you see it spelt out like that Aye?

Tim

[Silver]

Ok, I read all the post and spoke to.

But now I find myself summerizing this:

If you want a free manual which would normally cost $60-$80 then be a sweety and contribute 25 friendly posts and hopefully become addicted to this forum.

If they are needing an urgent answer because they are in middle of doing repair, just throw up an Intro and state you need help with.......Help is usually given to those who place Intros.....

Not hard when you see it spelt out like that Aye?

Tim

And if in the intro, or perhaps better, eslewhere, use the heading or whatever it is called to say what you want. So, quick and dirty can't wait for 25 posts might say Wheel Bearing Help GU and G'day, or something like that. Easier to spot the call for help that way.

I'm a slacker and just look at new posts, or search for info I want.

[Silver]

Hey, Trollman, most know my feelings on this subject, and I'm sure it's all to do woth the technical side of things to admin, but to members ( this one anyway), it is a little more personal. And yeah, your right, nothing worse than getting half way through job and needing help.. BUT how many ppl are fixing their trolls at 3am ? I think some of the point is that if you are stuck on a job, there is someone here who'd help out, for nothing to someone they dont know. Just common curtesy and manners is all it's about. Again this is one opinion of one person who sees alot of the grabbers in the dark of night.

Nice post Katwoman, I agree with what you wrote as well.

Do you think the reason we see different numbers of posts is because people are different. Some get a manual and disappear.

Perhaps we don't want them back, perhaps we do.

Some are probably sitting on the side watching - perhaps a lot?

And then there are the very regular contributors - someone put up an analysis of that a couple of weeks ago I think.

Looking at the Nightshift, I suspect I'd be welcome, but still I'd hesitate to dip my toe into what looks like a very close knit group of people chatting. But I sometimes have a look.

[katwoman]

Nice post Katwoman, I agree with what you wrote as well.

Do you think the reason we see different numbers of posts is because people are different. Some get a manual and disappear.

Perhaps we don't want them back, perhaps we do.

Some are probably sitting on the side watching - perhaps a lot?

And then there are the very regular contributors - someone put up an analysis of that a couple of weeks ago I think.

Looking at the Nightshift, I suspect I'd be welcome, but still I'd hesitate to dip my toe into what looks like a very close knit group of people chatting. But I sometimes have a look.
I'm sorry if we dont make ppl feel welcome on N/S. thats certainly not our intention. The more the merrier. Judging by amount of posts to amount of views ( in all threads), there is plenty who just look, and N/S probaly isnt a thread for all, cos we have nothing to contribute to the tech side of the forum. So, any time you're up for a B/S, night shift is the place for you..( Tony just made that thread to stop certain ppl( u no who u are) from hijacking all over the place.) And filling up proper threads with rubbish ( like I'm doing now..) Nobody on this forum, that I've seen look down on anybody for any reason. So, please, dip away. Just jump straight in. Sorry, sleep deprivation makes me dribble.

[Silver]

I'm sorry if we dont make ppl feel welcome on N/S. thats certainly not our intention. The more the merrier. Judging by amount of posts to amount of views ( in all threads), there is plenty who just look, and N/S probaly isnt a thread for all, cos we have nothing to contribute to the tech side of the forum. So, any time you're up for a B/S, night shift is the place for you..( Tony just made that thread to stop certain ppl( u no who u are) from hijacking all over the place.) And filling up proper threads with rubbish ( like I'm doing now..) Nobody on this forum, that I've seen look down on anybody for any reason. So, please, dip away. Just jump straight in. Sorry, sleep deprivation makes me dribble.

Thanks for the welcome :-)

[nowoolies]

I'm sorry if we dont make ppl feel welcome on N/S. thats certainly not our intention. The more the merrier. Judging by amount of posts to amount of views ( in all threads), there is plenty who just look, and N/S probaly isnt a thread for all, cos we have nothing to contribute to the tech side of the forum. So, any time you're up for a B/S, night shift is the place for you..( Tony just made that thread to stop certain ppl( u no who u are) from hijacking all over the place.) And filling up proper threads with rubbish ( like I'm doing now..) Nobody on this forum, that I've seen look down on anybody for any reason. So, please, dip away. Just jump straight in. Sorry, sleep deprivation makes me dribble.

welcome to n/s silver and dont listen to Kat we dont hijack ...............do we roflmfao hahahahahahahaah
oh bugger dobbed myself in

[Finly Owner]

welcome to n/s silver and dont listen to Kat we dont hijack ...............do we roflmfao hahahahahahahaah
oh bugger dobbed myself in

You'll get yourself a pay cut if she catches you talking like that. Hahahahahahahahaha

Tim

[nowoolies]

You'll get yourself a pay cut if she catches you talking like that. Hahahahahahahahaha

Tim

how much is nuttin from nuttin .............again did you say lmfao

[Finly Owner]

Gee, you've been taking smart pills Aye?

Tim

LOL

[nowoolies]

is that what they are i thought they were lollies roflmfao hahahahahahaha
no but iv`e had more than my fair share of chocolate today ...............i feel sick hahahahahah

[Finly Owner]

See you in general banter

[nowoolies]

See you in general banter

oklie doklie