New Uni Joint is too tight

[dom14]

Hey Guys,
I just installed the uni joint of my RB30 Patrol driveshaft rear.
The driveshaft side of the uni joint bearing is still showing a fair bit resistance.
I feel something is NOT right there.
Initially it was so tight, I knew something's definitely NOT right, as in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vhg3kU8K4U&feature=youtu.be

After hitting the driveshaft trunnion ears with a socket and a piece of wood to ease up any slack between the circlip groove and the trunnion ears, it loosen up a fair bit, but still there's a fair bit resistance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_LgrITtgBw&feature=youtu.be

Above is as good as I can get it. The york side of the uni joint bearings are pretty loose with no dramas.

The old bearing looked pretty good with plenty of grease inside when I removed it.
There weren't any damage I could see to the needle bearings or the surface of the uni joint rods. The reason I decided to replace the uni joint was there's a bit of uneven movement on the driveshaft side of the uni joint bearing. But, I expected that issue to go away after installing the new one. The uneven feeling of the movement(felt by hand) is apparently gone with the new one, but it's still got bit too much resistance.

Any ideas guys?

What I might have done wrong?

Is it possible trunnion ears are slightly bent? If that's the case, I shouldn't have been able to squeeze in the circlips that easily, should I?!!

If you look at the pictures, you can see, the bearing clip is about 0.5mm in from edge in one side, but the other side sits evenly on the edge.
Also when I greased it with the gun, very little grease appeared to have come out of the
side with the bearing cap is in 0.5mm from the edge.
Is that a tell tale sign of bearing cap's in too much?
Then how come I wasn't able to correct that by tapping on the trunnion ears hard enough?
The circlips on both sides are snugly in. There's no gap I can see, feel or correct by hitting it.

What should I do??!!

Thanx for any help.

[FNQGU]

Have you pulled it out, inspected the needle bearings, and then re-installed it again?

It does appear to be moving smoothly enough, just very tight. Definitely the correct part number?

Any vibrations if you whack it back in and take the vehicle for a drive?

[dom14]

Have you pulled it out, inspected the needle bearings, and then re-installed it again?

It does appear to be moving smoothly enough, just very tight. Definitely the correct part number?

Any vibrations if you whack it back in and take the vehicle for a drive?

Not yet. I thought it might have been due to having bit of slack from the circlip groove, so I hit on the trunnion "ears" force any gaps back into place and remove restrictions to the uni joint rods. Which did work, but only nowhere as good as the york end, which moves quite nicely without any restrictions.
I thought I seek some advice before I pulled it apart again.
Yes, it does move lot smoother than before for the driveshaft end of the uni joint, but still fair bit tighter than before.
I expected it to move with as low resistance as the york end.
I haven't fitted it back to the vehicle yet.
I'll pull it out again today and reinstall and see how it goes.

Worse case scenario that i can think of is having accidentally collapsing one of the need bearings & banging it to the
the bearing cap without realizing it. But, the reason I think there's not a good chance of that happening, 'cos it would've made it pretty hard(if not impossible) to get the circlip into the groove. So, I don't think there's any needle bearing damage or dropping to the bottom.
But, I will find out today.

[Cuppa]

Hi dom, I'm intrigued, please let us know how you go.

On the basis that the bearings are either ok or they are already damaged, if it were me I'd probably put it back in the car as is & take it out for a spin & then drop the driveshaft again to check, expecting that it may have freed up a bit more in use.

However I'm not suggesting you do this as my experience in fitting new uni joints is restricted to a single occasion on a Volkswagon Kombi 32 years ago! LOL.

[mudski]

On the odd occasion one of the needle rollers could have fallen to the back inside of the uni cup. But if this were to happen I doubt you would get the circlip on....
Watching the first vid its definitely too tight. The second seemed ok to me.

[Cuppa]

Watching the first vid its definitely too tight. The second seemed ok to me.

That was my impression too.

[Robo]

Going by past limited experience here.
Have a look in manual specs for the uni's.
You should find retainers come in different thicknesses.
That way you can adjust them for free play or lack of it with different clips.
A micrometer come in handy here.

Thicker will position the cups inwards tighter and thinner allows them out for a loser fit
never throw out old clips, you may be able to help a mate out, or yourself a some stage down the track.
I've measured old one's bagged n tagged em for another day, spare parts.
always use same thickness on each side to maintain center

[dom14]

Going by past limited experience here.
Have a look in manual specs for the uni's.
You should find retainers come in different thicknesses.
That way you can adjust them for free play or lack of it with different clips.
A micrometer come in handy here.

Thicker will position the cups inwards tighter and thinner allows them out for a loser fit
never throw out old clips, you may be able to help a mate out, or yourself a some stage down the track.
I've measured old one's bagged n tagged em for another day, spare parts.
always use same thickness on each side to maintain center

Thanx mate. I decided to pull it out and examine, as well as measure the circlip thickness & the uni joint.
The old one I pulled out was in pretty good condition, so I definitely keep it as a backup.
The reason I replaced the old one was that the old didn't have a grease nipples to regrease it, and also had some uneven movement
on the driveshaft side bearings. There was slightly more tightness comparing to york side, but nothing like it is now though.

[dom14]

On the odd occasion one of the needle rollers could have fallen to the back inside of the uni cup. But if this were to happen I doubt you would get the circlip on....
Watching the first vid its definitely too tight. The second seemed ok to me.

Yeah, the thought has crossed my mind, but being pretty inexperienced with uni joint installations, I thought it's better to double check
it with the blokes here with more experience on these things. I won't be able to put it in as it is and take it on for a drive, 'cos I pulled out few other things from under the car to fix. Rear part of the exhaust is out to replace all the gaskets and sand the flanges flat as well as check for any leaks and give it a spray of heat resistant paint. I also pulled out the fuel tanks as well.
I am pulling out the tight side of the uni this arvo. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanx.

[dom14]

Hey Guys,

I pulled the sticking side of the uni joint caps and found out I've actually managed to crush two needle bearings into pieces.

I took few measurements to find out whether there are any differences between two uni joints.
Apparently there is.

Can you please have a look and post me some advice.

I can't scavenge a couple of needle bearing from the old one, 'cos they are different sizes.

So, it looks like I can either buy a another one or I can put the old one back in with new grease.
The old one is actually in pretty damn good condition.

I'm wondering whether my installation technique was crap or the there're slight differences between two that caused the drama.

Thanx

[dom14]

I'm particularly confused by the difference in circlip thickness between the old and new one.
The groove width almost the same between two, yet the new one has a remarkably thinner
circlip. See the pictures and measurements.
I reckon that is NOT good.

[dom14]

Assuming above replacement uni joint is the accurate one,

It is indeed possible to crush needle bearings inside the cap and still manage to install the circlip by hitting it hard.

Especially in the above case where the circlip is lot thinner than the bearing cap groove.

[Robo]

I'm particularly confused by the difference in circlip thickness between the old and new one.
The groove width almost the same between two, yet the new one has a remarkably thinner
circlip. See the pictures and measurements.
I reckon that is NOT good.

58.47 new and old 57mm
Going by the measurements of new uni it's wider correct by 1.47mm.
but new clips only allow .63 mm less gap.
so extra pressure when compressed in place of .84mm tighter.
If Ive got it all correct.

pre grease inner of uni this helps to hold needles in place before assembly, can prevent em dropping out of position.
also ensures you have full coverage of the grease you want is in there, not just the factory assembly lube.

(just noticed you crushed rollers on page 1 not good,
but different measurements on page 2).

[mudski]

Overall length of the uni by what it is, is no drama. The flanges are open end so thats o.k. to a point. We know the cup size is right as you have pressed these in fine. The circlip groove distance measurement difference is compensated by the thinner circlip supplied. How accurate are your circlip groove measurements? Sometimes a little grease in the head of the cup can hold the cup out by a smidge. Put the new uni in a vice and squeeze the cups together and see what the measurement is.
What brand and part number are the new uni's? RUJ-2028 Is the number they should be. Which has a 28mm cup and 55.96mm from circlip to circlip.

[dom14]

58.47 new and old 57mm
Going by the measurements of new uni it's wider correct by 1.47mm.
but new clips only allow .63 mm less gap.
so extra pressure when compressed in place of .84mm tighter.
If Ive got it all correct.

pre grease inner of uni this helps to hold needles in place before assembly, can prevent em dropping out of position.
also ensures you have full coverage of the grease you want is in there, not just the factory assembly lube.

(just noticed you crushed rollers on page 1 not good,
but different measurements on page 2).

Yeah, I pregrease them, allowing the excess to ooze out while installing.
I'm putting back the old one, and see how it goes.
With good two needle bearings gone, the new is not that new anymore.
I just realized the old uni joint is actually far better quality one.
No pitting marks on the uni joint rod from needle bearings forcing on them.
But, all four uni joint rods have pitting marks on the new one from trying to undo it.
I'm learning a lot, but overall the replacement job has been an unnecessary job, considering
the condition the old one is in.
It's lot easier to drop the needle bearings or force them into wrong position than I earlier thought.
Uni joint replacement need lot more care and patience than I thought.
Good lesson for sure.

[dom14]

Overall length of the uni by what it is, is no drama. The flanges are open end so thats o.k. to a point. We know the cup size is right as you have pressed these in fine. The circlip groove distance measurement difference is compensated by the thinner circlip supplied. How accurate are your circlip groove measurements? Sometimes a little grease in the head of the cup can hold the cup out by a smidge. Put the new uni in a vice and squeeze the cups together and see what the measurement is.
What brand and part number are the new uni's? RUJ-2028 Is the number they should be. Which has a 28mm cup and 55.96mm from circlip to circlip.

I just took these measurements of pictures to make sure. This is the new replacement one that I've managed to break few needle bearings above. I bought it from Bearing Wholsalers around two years ago.
It appears to be the correct part number, except the distances are 58.42mm outer edge of the groove to outer edge or 53.42mm(58.42-5) inner edge of the groove to inner edge.
If the "Circlip to circlip distance" means the same thing, then 55.96mm distance is only right if we take the given circlip(1.5mm) thickness into account. In that case, 58.42-3=55.42mm. There's still a difference of 55.96-55.42=0.54mm.

The real bummer is that I can't scavenge couple of needle rollers from the old one 'cos they are different size.
New uni joint is useless unless I manage to find couple of needle rollers of same size from somewhere.

[dom14]

I put the old uni joint back in with plenty of grease.
It's moving lot better than before.
I think I learnt few lessons.

1)Lot of care should be taken to ensure the needle bearings don't go out of place and get lodged in the back of the uni joint bearing cap
2)If it's too tight, uni joint should be pulled out to make sure nothing's gone wrong inside.
3)Don't fix it if it ain't broken. (In my case the removal was kinda worth it 'cos I learnt to do the job properly and also managed to regrease the old one, as it wasn't possible to regrease it without pulling it out[no grease niple])

As for the new replacement bearing, I'll have to see whether I can scavenge couple of needle bearings from an old one from somewhere. Even if it's not reliably usable, it's still worth keeping it for future spares I reckon.

[micktickner1980]

Always fit the uni dry (no grease) they should nearly always feel tight. Grab a decent size hammer. I use a 7lb one and flog the living christ out of the yokes directly. Dont put a piece of wood in between as you wont get the force required to seat the caps home. You really have to give it a good hard swing and hit. Dont be scared! you wont break it.

Then Lube the unit with a super tacky grease like Moreys Big Foot until the seals pop.

PS. Hardy spicer brand universals are absolute rubbish. I would never use another again. I only use the OEM Japanese ones.

[mudski]

I put the old uni joint back in with plenty of grease.
It's moving lot better than before.
I think I learnt few lessons.

1)Lot of care should be taken to ensure the needle bearings don't go out of place and get lodged in the back of the uni joint bearing cap
2)If it's too tight, uni joint should be pulled out to make sure nothing's gone wrong inside.
3)Don't fix it if it ain't broken. (In my case the removal was kinda worth it 'cos I learnt to do the job properly and also managed to regrease the old one, as it wasn't possible to regrease it without pulling it out[no grease niple])

As for the new replacement bearing, I'll have to see whether I can scavenge couple of needle bearings from an old one from somewhere. Even if it's not reliably usable, it's still worth keeping it for future spares I reckon.
Lesson 3. Nothing wrong with preventative maintenance....

Always fit the uni dry (no grease) they should nearly always feel tight. Grab a decent size hammer. I use a 7lb one and flog the living christ out of the yokes directly. Dont put a piece of wood in between as you wont get the force required to seat the caps home. You really have to give it a good hard swing and hit. Dont be scared! you wont break it.

Then Lube the unit with a super tacky grease like Moreys Big Foot until the seals pop.

PS. Hardy spicer brand universals are absolute rubbish. I would never use another again. I only use the OEM Japanese ones.

Dom used a big hammer and had shatter a couple of needle rollers... Whats your reasoning behind Hardy Spicer? I dealt with and sold their product for over 20 years in the heavy transport industry. Never had one issue.

[dom14]

Always fit the uni dry (no grease) they should nearly always feel tight. Grab a decent size hammer. I use a 7lb one and flog the living christ out of the yokes directly. Dont put a piece of wood in between as you wont get the force required to seat the caps home. You really have to give it a good hard swing and hit. Dont be scared! you wont break it.

Then Lube the unit with a super tacky grease like Moreys Big Foot until the seals pop.

PS. Hardy spicer brand universals are absolute rubbish. I would never use another again. I only use the OEM Japanese ones.

Sorry, I have to disagree with the above. I did exactly as above and got headache results.
I fitted the new uni joint with the existing grease in it and didn't add anymore, thinking I grease it with the gun after finishing it.
I banged it really hard to loosen it up when it was too tight. The results speak for itself with the above photos.
I also took "enough" care to make sure the needle bearings don't go out of place, but it wasn't enough with lack of experience and NOT enough grease
inside the caps.
You can also see the pitting marks on the bearing rods from the needle roller, which were caused by banging hard, which also indicates that these replacement
uni's which aren't the same as factory originals are better off pressing, provided we have access to a press, but it's doable with a big enough bench vice though.

[Robo]

Just a thought.
If ya have to belt this crap out of something to fit it in place, especially with a hefty hammer, SOMETHING IS LIKELY WRONG.

[dom14]

I pulled both old uni-joints of the rear drive shaft and regreased them and put them back in.
It goes fine now. So far, I can't sense anymore annoying vibrations than before.
Front uni-joint of the rear drive shaft was an absolute bona fide PITA. The needle rollers kept falling and and
it took me ages to get it right. I also bought two drive shafts(front and back) as a backup, just in case.

[Robo]

I pulled both old uni-joints of the rear drive shaft and regreased them and put them back in.
It goes fine now. So far, I can't sense anymore annoying vibrations than before.
Front uni-joint of the rear drive shaft was an absolute bona fide PITA. The needle rollers kept falling and and
it took me ages to get it right. I also bought two drive shafts(front and back) as a backup, just in case.

If your having difficulty slip the uni apart and grease it up by hand this will help to hold the needles in place while you reassemble shaft.
The grease acts like a glue to "help" hold needles in place.

I had the same problem and this "helped alot" its still tricky but made it much less painful.

[dom14]

If your having difficulty slip the uni apart and grease it up by hand this will help to hold the needles in place while you reassemble shaft.
The grease acts like a glue to "help" hold needles in place.

I had the same problem and this "helped alot" its still tricky but made it much less painful.

Yeah, it was well greased inside the caps, but still took fair bit improvisation to get it right.
I liked the idea of gently tapping each cap of the yoke on equal amounts to get them in without misplacing
the needle rollers, which did work with the drive shaft trunnion end uni caps. But, that approach didn't work with
the yoke for some reason. So, I had to get one cap three quaters in first, then carefully insert the uni rod into the cap and
then slowly insert the other cap while gently tapping to get it in without causing the needle rollers to go out of place.
I was holding in cap ends vertical, and I reckon it's a better approach after all, 'cos if the rollers try to go out of place of
the cap I'm tapping on, won't be easy to go out of place 'cos they have to come out of the place against gravity this time.
I still had to hold the uni joint by hand in the mid position though.
Good thing about old uni joints is that I was able to know straightaway when the needle rollers were out of place, 'cos I
couldn't get the caps to go in with reasonable hitting to deep enough to get the circlip in.
The TOYO replacement was different 'cos the circlips were half the thickness of the groove, so it's possible to get the
circlip in while the needle rollers were out of place.

I think I need to document this in detail in the other thread with photos. I will do that soon.

One thing I learnt is that it's always better to get hold of a press or improvise a press with a big enough bench vice and
few pieces of spacers.