Queens Birthday Weekend Police Blitz

[Bob]

According to Channel 7 News Police will be targeting Off Road Vehicles this weekend.
That is the Victorian Police

[Winnie]

Cool, perfect time for me to smuggle drugs interstate then :)

[Hodge]

They always are every long weekend. Good luck to those going through Mansfield lol.


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[AB]

Unfortunately my GQ now sits at home long weekends.

When money permits I'll probably end up doing Leah's car up for the family camping long weekenders.

[Sir Roofy]

Unfortunately my GQ now sits at home long weekends.

When money permits I'll probably end up doing Leah's car up for the family camping long weekenders.

4x4 smoky's they'll never catch you mate lol

[the evil twin]

Cool, perfect time for me to smuggle drugs interstate then :)

You need to be over 60 and driving a hire motorhome to do that...

[BigRAWesty]

Unfortunately my GQ now sits at home long weekends.

When money permits I'll probably end up doing Leah's car up for the family camping long weekenders.
Flame Suit on..
Why not detune yours a bit to take the heat off a little

[Chappy]

I'll be heading up to the Strathbogies, that's close enough to Mansfield to make me nervous haha

[nissannewby]

Unfortunately my GQ now sits at home long weekends.

When money permits I'll probably end up doing Leah's car up for the family camping long weekenders.

They wont catch you now :)

[MudRunnerTD]

Flame Suit on..
Why not detune yours a bit to take the heat off a little

Tunes is not the issue here. Lift, Tyres, Turbo, GQ, 4 Wheel drive, Long weekend, Police attitude to all of the above. I would not take my GUIV anywhere either! Very sad.

[BigRAWesty]

Tunes is not the issue here. Lift, Tyres, Turbo, GQ, 4 Wheel drive, Long weekend, Police attitude to all of the above. I would not take my GUIV anywhere either! Very sad.
Yea totally get that..
You can have 1000hp in a sleeper..
But.
33's, 3" lift and mufflers will see you smile and wave past a lot more cops than 35's and straight threw exhaust..

But yea.. where's the fun in that.

Do I need to build some trailers...???

[MudRunnerTD]

Yea totally get that..
You can have 1000hp in a sleeper..
But.
33's, 3" lift and mufflers will see you smile and wave past a lot more cops than 35's and straight threw exhaust..

But yea.. where's the fun in that.

Do I need to build some trailers...???

lol, not this weekend bud. 33s and a 3" lift will get you a defect. You will be waved pst none. They will ride into your campsite this weekend on XR450s and a Yellow Pad. Game Over.

[BigRAWesty]

lol, not this weekend bud. 33s and a 3" lift will get you a defect. You will be waved pst none. They will ride into your campsite this weekend on XR450s and a Yellow Pad. Game Over.
Really that bad is it??
I thought 33's were legal though in Vic? ?

[MudRunnerTD]

Really that bad is it??
I thought 33's were legal though in Vic? ?

they are but 3" suspension is not. and certainly not together. it is 3" combined lift so 33s and 2" spring lift is the limit. No Body lift.

[BigRAWesty]

they are but 3" suspension is not. and certainly not together. it is 3" combined lift so 33s and 2" spring lift is the limit. No Body lift.
Or right..
That's still better than SA's 50mm lift and 7mm tyre increase... lol

[MB]

Unfortunately the sadest part is for the business owners in our High Country regions. Last year at Dargo the publicans vouched for the slowest weekend to date. KTM's galore scouring the tracks at quadruple our pace, AB & Jaysee can sticker vouch for that :-( ! Both cars were LWB very well set up, tyres yes, but we need these tools to travel safely, slowly and environmentally conscious at 20psi without skull dragging up tracks!!

[Dannyboyz]

Makes me sad, yes I know my GU is definitely over the top but it also is driven everywhere, around town or the bush, with care and safety for my family in mind. I have a 2 and 4 year old and my wife in it so why would I drive it dangerously? We just want to get where we are going comfortably, easily and safely. The things I see around me on the road in just one day make me more worried than everything I have ever seen off the road put together

Cheers, Danny
.................................................. .............
1998 GU wagon - 2.8 out - mighty 4.2 in. Locked front and rear with 4.6 ratios. 4 inch heavy duty coils. Tough dog adjustable shocks. Too much to mention and hopefully more to come.

[MudRunnerTD]

Unfortunately the sadest part is for the business owners in our High Country regions. Last year at Dargo the publicans vouched for the slowest weekend to date. KTM's galore scouring the tracks at quadruple our pace, AB & Jaysee can sticker vouch for that :-( ! Both cars were LWB very well set up, tyres yes, but we need these tools to travel safely, slowly and environmentally conscious at 20psi without skull dragging up tracks!!

Mark AB and I rolled into Woods Point on Australia Day weekend expecting to have to bush camp along the river due to the crowds..... Was Blown Away to find Comet Flat Camp ground completely deserted! We had it to ourselves! We went into the pub for a beer "Just because" and there was Noone there! was Crazy! We drove around for 2 days and saw only 2 or 3 cars in the area! could not believe how quiet it was. Certainly the business owners must feel that!

[AB]

Mark AB and I rolled into Woods Point on Australia Day weekend expecting to have to bush camp along the river due to the crowds..... Was Blown Away to find Comet Flat Camp ground completely deserted! We had it to ourselves! We went into the pub for a beer "Just because" and there was Noone there! was Crazy! We drove around for 2 days and saw only 2 or 3 cars in the area! could not believe how quiet it was. Certainly the business owners must feel that!

Yeah we spoke to the lady behind the bar and she mentioned the owner bought a shipload of steaks, etc and no one was in town for the long weekend.

Very sad indeed!

[Hodge]

Workmates best friend works for depi and lives in Mansfield. Cops even target their land cruisers etc...
There was a lot of letters written to the local MP and council outlining people abandoning visiting to their town because of the police attitude. Loss of tourism etc... and apparently there was a response letter somebody put up on Facebook pretty much saying , no matter what car you drive be it a family sedan or 4x4 if you abide by the rules and are legal on road you have nothing to worry about .
I'll scour my FB later and have a search for it.

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[BigRAWesty]

Workmates best friend works for depi and lives in Mansfield. Cops even target their land cruisers etc...
There was a lot of letters written to the local MP and council outlining people abandoning visiting to their town because of the police attitude. Loss of tourism etc... and apparently there was a response letter somebody put up on Facebook pretty much saying , no matter what car you drive be it a family sedan or 4x4 if you abide by the rules and are legal on road you have nothing to worry about .
I'll scour my FB later and have a search for it.

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Which is true..
But there's a difference between picking on over the top vehicles and being carntz

[Hodge]

So just reading on faceche someone had a catch can noted on the yellow slip...
Catch cans not roadworthy? Thought it was illegal only when vented into atmosphere

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[BigRAWesty]

So just reading on faceche someone had a catch can noted on the yellow slip...
Catch cans not roadworthy? Thought it was illegal only when vented into atmosphere

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Na Mark has just found out from his questions for his rig that catch cans are illegal regardless..

But to my point above.. if that's what there getting to well imo that's past the line of being a carnt!!

[BigRAWesty]

Well.. SA they are legal..
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/143.jpg

[mudnut]

I thought catch cans wouldn't affect the performance of a vehicle, and if vented back into the engine, it would be beneficial to the environment.

[mudski]

Yeah Brett was saying that Vic Toads bought in the ruling of catch cans years ago when all the rice burners were fitting them and just venting in the the atmosphere. Now can design has changed but the out of date ruling hasn't.

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[mudski]

Something else i have leanrt too Kallen. Your local state can make one rule, but if ADR says different, the local state law is rendered null and void.

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[the evil twin]

Something else i have leanrt too Kallen. Your local state can make one rule, but if ADR says different, the local state law is rendered null and void.

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Agree...
Usually only becomes an issue if you get zapped interstate tho.
Home state - doesn't comply with ADR but everyone thinks it is OK so they let it go
Interstate - doesn't comply with ADR or the state you are travelling so you get kicked in the nuts

[mudski]

I just spoke to a mate of mine about 5 minutes ago, and his brother has a kitted out zook. Big lift, 32inch tyres, EFI'd Vitara motor, twin locked etc etc. ALL engineered, recently. He got pulled up by the fuzz last week not far from my place by the highway patrol. They were going to slap him with a fine and a sticker for the tyres and what ever else, he showed them the recent papers for the engineers and RWC. The copper said it means nothing and to him he's still illegal. Then my mates brother argued how in the hell is his car NOT legal when he has it engineered to be legal, plus a current RWC. He also said if you want to take it further I will see you in court and I will chase you down for my legal costs.
After saying that copper said "I'll let you off with a warning" to him. His response was, "No! I'll let you off". Started his car and took off. Leaving the copper standing on the side of the road.
Kinda funny that.
I can't wait to get mine done now. Next month with any luck. Then the fuzz can lick my hairy bean bag.

[MudRunnerTD]

I just spoke to a mate of mine about 5 minutes ago, and his brother has a kitted out zook. Big lift, 32inch tyres, EFI'd Vitara motor, twin locked etc etc. ALL engineered, recently. He got pulled up by the fuzz last week not far from my place by the highway patrol. They were going to slap him with a fine and a sticker for the tyres and what ever else, he showed them the recent papers for the engineers and RWC. The copper said it means nothing and to him he's still illegal. Then my mates brother argued how in the hell is his car NOT legal when he has it engineered to be legal, plus a current RWC. He also said if you want to take it further I will see you in court and I will chase you down for my legal costs.
After saying that copper said "I'll let you off with a warning" to him. His response was, "No! I'll let you off". Started his car and took off. Leaving the copper standing on the side of the road.
Kinda funny that.
I can't wait to get mine done now. Next month with any luck. Then the fuzz can lick my hairy bean bag.

Are you getting yours Engineers Mark? who is doing it? how big is your lift? What are you getting Engineered? Turbo? Tyres? Lift? whats it costing you? are you swerve testing or just the easy stuff?

[AB]

Are you getting yours Engineers Mark? who is doing it? how big is your lift? What are you getting Engineered? Turbo? Tyres? Lift? whats it costing you? are you swerve testing or just the easy stuff? Breath Darren, breath ;)

[MudRunnerTD]

Yea totally get that..
You can have 1000hp in a sleeper..
But.
33's, 3" lift and mufflers will see you smile and wave past a lot more cops than 35's and straight threw exhaust..

But yea.. where's the fun in that.

Do I need to build some trailers...???

Here is a little taster for the weekend upon us.

Half way Up Billygoats last year!!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/147.jpg

[MudRunnerTD]

Are you getting yours Engineers Mark? who is doing it? how big is your lift? What are you getting Engineered? Turbo? Tyres? Lift? whats it costing you? are you swerve testing or just the easy stuff?


Breath Darren, breath ;)

Keen As!! :p

[MudRunnerTD]

These ones are special too!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/148.jpg

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/149.jpg

Yep1 no intent to harass there at all! These guys are special!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk cause AB turned it back on!!

[Chappy]

Had some dirt bike cops come into work today. They had the cruiser loaded with the trailer on the back. He said they are targeting Kinglake, Toolangi etc, Mansfield, Nooje, Gembrook and up high country way. The city was also crawling with solo units pulling people over. Looks like it's going to be a busy weekend.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/150.jpg

[Roosim]

67435

It gets worse !!!!!

[Hodge]

It's ridiculous. No other word for it.

[NissanGQ4.2]

Had some dirt bike cops come into work today. They had the cruiser loaded with the trailer on the back. He said they are targeting Kinglake, Toolangi etc, Mansfield, Nooje, Gembrook and up high country way. The city was also crawling with solo units pulling people over. Looks like it's going to be a busy weekend.


Thats not a no stopping sign that he is parked in front of?

[BigRAWesty]

Mt gambier is crawling with cops too this weekend

[the evil twin]

Good... 'bout time the Coppers sorted out all you shady easterners with your dodgy 4 wheel coffins.

[MB]

It appears that Nationally we need to legally raise the bar on what should be factually ADR compliant and or not. With all this good work our government's doing in handing out slips and stickers over long Aussie family weekends is it all legally compiled somewhere statistically for us tax payers to see? Has there actually been any increased road risk from simple 2" solid lifts and 35" tyres?

[the evil twin]

It appears that Nationally we need to legally raise the bar on what should be factually ADR compliant and or not. With all this good work our government's doing in handing out slips and stickers over long Aussie family weekends is it all legally compiled somewhere statistically for us tax payers to see? Has there actually been any increased road risk from simple 2" solid lifts and 35" tyres?

I actullay think it should be adopted as an ecologically sensitive initiative.
There would be 1'000s of native animals still alive thanks to the fact they now fit under a 3 ton 100 KPH projectile.
IMHO ADR's should state a minimum ground clearance optional package equivalent to 4 inch and 35's.

[Chappy]

I actullay think it should be adopted as an ecologically sensitive initiative.
There would be 1'000s of native animals still alive thanks to the fact they now fit under a 3 ton 100 KPH projectile.
IMHO ADR's should state a minimum ground clearance optional package equivalent to 4 inch and 35's.

It just makes sense

[mudski]

Are you getting yours Engineers Mark? who is doing it? how big is your lift? What are you getting Engineered? Turbo? Tyres? Lift? whats it costing you? are you swerve testing or just the easy stuff?
#MudRunnerTD
Yes. 4x4 Obsession. 4inch. The entire car gets engineered. No choice in that.... So lift, motor, gvm etc etc. Much like a rwc.
Cost is $1600. Which includes swerve test.

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[mudski]

Had some dirt bike cops come into work today. They had the cruiser loaded with the trailer on the back. He said they are targeting Kinglake, Toolangi etc, Mansfield, Nooje, Gembrook and up high country way. The city was also crawling with solo units pulling people over. Looks like it's going to be a busy weekend.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/150.jpg
I would have been out there giving them some flat tyres.

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[Rossco]

Had some dirt bike cops come into work today. They had the cruiser loaded with the trailer on the back. He said they are targeting Kinglake, Toolangi etc, Mansfield, Nooje, Gembrook and up high country way. The city was also crawling with solo units pulling people over. Looks like it's going to be a busy weekend.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/150.jpg

Hope they got a parking ticket, doesn't look quite legal that ! ! Oh well guess they can just make up the rules to suit.

Saw the cops at Coldstream yesterday with one of those VW vans a few hundred meters up the road with a camera thingy. Saw them pull in a couple of normal looking cars whilst a couple of GU utes with 35" simexes cruised through. Not exactly sure what they can check from the van, assuming rego and liceced driver fir that rego. Have also heard that if warrants are out for people it will come up too. Anyway glad i was in the work ute as i flogged it through! !

[MudRunnerTD]

Hope they got a parking ticket, doesn't look quite legal that ! ! Oh well guess they can just make up the rules to suit.

Saw the cops at Coldstream yesterday with one of those VW vans a few hundred meters up the road with a camera thingy. Saw them pull in a couple of normal looking cars whilst a couple of GU utes with 35" simexes cruised through. Not exactly sure what they can check from the van, assuming rego and liceced driver fir that rego. Have also heard that if warrants are out for people it will come up too. Anyway glad i was in the work ute as i flogged it through! !


Yeah those vans do all of that in the time it takes you to drive from it to the roadblock! Pretty look. The Rego check is the biggest one.

[Hodge]

The VW van has a onboard PC, that is set to trigger alarm bells, and if a rego meets certain "criteria"like rego out of date, warrants (if sherrif is present), etc.. , bloke in the van pages the cops down the road and that car is given priority entry to the side lane for a full look over / chat.

[MB]

They're so much more relaxed over here, they'll let anything pass by :-)
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/177.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/178.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/179.jpg





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[MB]

Check out the tie-downs used here or should I say string :-(

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/180.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/181.jpg


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[MB]

And my personal favourite, Mr Bean's roof rack :-)

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/182.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/183.jpg


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[AB]

Checking Facebook to see a shipload of fines and defects getting around in vic today :(

[Winnie]

Checking Facebook to see a shipload of fines and defects getting around in vic today :(
Yeah wow, we did 500kms of offroad driving and did not see a single copper.
Must have got lucky!

[Rossco]

Yeah wow, we did 500kms of offroad driving and did not see a single copper.
Must have got lucky!
Good weekend? Thinking it would have been very nice in the mountains today if you could escape the crowds. Was a good weekend for snow. . .

[Winnie]

Good weekend? Thinking it would have been very nice in the mountains today if you could escape the crowds. Was a good weekend for snow. . .
Yeah and we had absolutely bugger all traffic too. Few dramas, just a couple of people on the trip were just way too slow for us. Wanted to stop every 20 mins, couldn't keep up and wanted to sleep in until 10am every day.
Put us way behind time and saw us driving well into the night.
Besides that though it was an awesome trip and we did some really sweet tracks.

[jack]

Quick trip through the Otways today (nothing difficult). Saw a couple of other 4wds and no Police, just a speed camera setup in Beeac.

[MudRunnerTD]

Yeah and we had absolutely bugger all traffic too. Few dramas, just a couple of people on the trip were just way too slow for us. Wanted to stop every 20 mins, couldn't keep up and wanted to sleep in until 10am every day.
Put us way behind time and saw us driving well into the night.
Besides that though it was an awesome trip and we did some really sweet tracks.

Yeah bugger. The traveling speed can be a bit of a bugger. Sitting around in the morning waiting for people to wake up at 10am is rediculous though. On club trip or group trips organizing a departure time the night before must be done, at least everyone is working to the same plan.

A quiet word from the trip leader to the Slow driver on a break can help allot to.

Glad you had fun.

Do you guys have written convoy procedures you travel by in your club?

[Winnie]

Yeah we have convoy rules written down.
We are still only a very young club though and this was our biggest trip, we had 8 cars.
We are trying not to get too strict on things like that but we have had a bit of a chat between the committee and we are going to start sticking to departure times and work some other stuff out.

[AB]

Yeah we have convoy rules written down. We are still only a very young club though and this was our biggest trip, we had 8 cars. We are trying not to get too strict on things like that but we have had a bit of a chat between the committee and we are going to start sticking to departure times and work some other stuff out. Kudos to the new club Winnie but old mate has a point

People would get shitty at leaving at 10am.

@someomeweknow ;)

[Winnie]

Kudos to the new club Winnie but old mate has a point

People would get shitty at leaving at 10am.

@someomeweknow ;)
Hahaha.
Yeah don't forget they WOKE UP at 10 and then had to pack up camp... We did not roll out until 11.30!
But yeah this trip has helped us to identify a few issues that should be controllable, ie if you are not ready by the set time then you will be left behind. Every one else was packed up and fed by 8.30am

[MB]

Hahaha. Yeah don't forget they WOKE UP at 10 and then had to pack up camp... We did not roll out until 11.30! But yeah this trip has helped us to identify a few issues that should be controllable, ie if you are not ready by the set time then you will be left behind. Every one else was packed up and fed by 8.30am
Mr Winnie, your club won't be sleeping in with Jnr Winnie soon to come :-) ! Bacon & Eggs & the tranquil morning sounds of ?........... :-) Thaty'll stir em out !!

[AB]

Mr Winnie, your club won't be sleeping in with Jnr Winnie soon to come :-) ! Bacon & Eggs & the tranquil morning sounds of ?........... :-) Thaty'll stir em out !! Ready to roll at 530 ;)

[MB]

Ready to roll at 530 ;)
And then they go back to in motion sleep, gotta love em :-) !!

[MudRunnerTD]

Yeah we have convoy rules written down.
We are still only a very young club though and this was our biggest trip, we had 8 cars.
We are trying not to get too strict on things like that but we have had a bit of a chat between the committee and we are going to start sticking to departure times and work some other stuff out.

I was on Committee for my Club for nearly 10 years mate, I was Regionsl Rep and PRO. I have run a heap of club day trips and would be very happy to have a chat sometime. Glad your club is coming together.

[MudRunnerTD]

Starting times are as simple as choosing the roll time and letting everyone know before people get drunk or head to bed. "we have got s big day tomorrow. We will roll out of Camp at 8:30am"

Unfortunately your member was on a different page. Long weekend, holiday, sleep in. Was very incondiderate. But. They did not know there was a plan.

[Winnie]

Starting times are as simple as choosing the roll time and letting everyone know before people get drunk or head to bed. "we have got s big day tomorrow. We will roll out of Camp at 8:30am"

Unfortunately your member was on a different page. Long weekend, holiday, sleep in. Was very incondiderate. But. They did not know there was a plan.
Yeah that's it mate, like I said it was good for us to see the kind of issues that can come up if you don't have something in place to stop it from happening in the first place.
So we will have set departure times on the next trip for sure.

[Hodge]

Starting times are as simple as choosing the roll time and letting everyone know before people get drunk or head to bed. "we have got s big day tomorrow. We will roll out of Camp at 8:30am"

Unfortunately your member was on a different page. Long weekend, holiday, sleep in. Was very incondiderate. But. They did not know there was a plan.

Slight Hi-jack. Speaking about punctuality on club runs etc...(or lack of)
What Darren just said is the exact reason "rolling" high country trips went to shit, twice on me.
Both time we had a plan. Camp first night, early next morning, get going by 8 do some tracks , site seeing, hut visits etc, camp elsewhere. Then rinse and repeat the next night / morning.
Now i'm an early riser, always have been. Up at 6-630, get a fire going, coffee, enjoy the serenity... Other folks had other intentions, even though there was a time plan set in place. A lot of drinking the night before, some guys/girls were up 10-11am. By the time coffee/brekky was had, it was 12-1pm. If winter time, you have 2-3 hours of daylight left...
Your original plan is out the window. So now just stay at original camp spot and enjoy.
It gave me the shits as I really wanted to make use most of the daylight up in the high country.
Total respect to people who like sleep-ins, etc... But if there is a schedule to adhere to, well.....

[MudRunnerTD]

Hahaha.
Yeah don't forget they WOKE UP at 10 and then had to pack up camp... We did not roll out until 11.30!
But yeah this trip has helped us to identify a few issues that should be controllable, ie if you are not ready by the set time then you will be left behind. Every one else was packed up and fed by 8.30am

Wow!!! Mate have been on club trips that would have people standing next to that sleeping camp and VERY LOUDLY TALKING about needing people to get ready to go. I have seen people get pretty sh1ty about that. That's crazy timing though to be honest! I know people that would have left them where they were!

[macca]

Interesting read Winnie, lucky we don't have such issues as it could be frustrating at the least.
We have on occasions said we want an early get away to visit something in particular, and will meet the rest at a designated point be it camp, town, pub , servo whatever.
The reverse could also apply, you as a group are leaving at 8.30 and will have lunch near here or camp there. Open for mix-ups and finding a camp already full but that is what happens.
Tough love some may say.
What is interesting is when we do leave camp early sometimes others want to join us. We normally pack everything possible the night before, get away a quietly as possible and have our "noisy" brekky on the track with the sun rise... beautiful.
Congratulation's for having a go and figuring out the nicest way to bring everyone on to the same page.

[MudRunnerTD]

Slight Hi-jack. Speaking about punctuality on club runs etc...(or lack of)
What Darren just said is the exact reason "rolling" high country trips went to shit, twice on me.
Both time we had a plan. Camp first night, early next morning, get going by 8 do some tracks , site seeing, hut visits etc, camp elsewhere. Then rinse and repeat the next night / morning.
Now i'm an early riser, always have been. Up at 6-630, get a fire going, coffee, enjoy the serenity... Other folks had other intentions, even though there was a time plan set in place. A lot of drinking the night before, some guys/girls were up 10-11am. By the time coffee/brekky was had, it was 12-1pm. If winter time, you have 2-3 hours of daylight left...
Your original plan is out the window. So now just stay at original camp spot and enjoy.
It gave me the shits as I really wanted to make use most of the daylight up in the high country.
Total respect to people who like sleep-ins, etc... But if there is a schedule to adhere to, well.....


100% if your going to run a traveling trip then set departures are very important. It's not fair to everyone else otherwise. If your base camping there running day trips then if someone has a big night they can opt out and not smash the whole trip.

I'd be furious!

[MudRunnerTD]

Interesting read Winnie, lucky we don't have such issues as it could be frustrating at the least.
We have on occasions said we want an early get away to visit something in particular, and will meet the rest at a designated point be it camp, town, pub , servo whatever.
The reverse could also apply, you as a group are leaving at 8.30 and will have lunch near here or camp there. Open for mix-ups and finding a camp already full but that is what happens.
Tough love some may say.
What is interesting is when we do leave camp early sometimes others want to join us. We normally pack everything possible the night before, get away a quietly as possible and have brekky on the track with the sun up... beautiful.
Congratulation's for having a go and figuring out the nicest way to bring everyone on to the same page.

That's a really tricky one Macca, very early risers packed and ready to go by 7am and waiting for others or leaving the group for periods can also be very disruptive in a group traveling trip. I have seen quite a few groups fall apart because of this. It can create significant tension at the start of the day for everyone. I respect what your saying don't get me wrong but I have seen this cause some very good people to be at logger heads and destroy big traveller trips.

It's really hard. This is probably the hardest part of running trips and running clubs.

Traveling trips should be done as a group wanting the same thing. Agreeing on a roll out time and everyone agreeing and adhering to it will self Police. Splitting groups can be a real problem, especially if the main group has a breakdown or major recovery.

If you were planning a big interstate trip with a big group and plan on a number side ventures then as long as everyone in the group is clear that that was the plan and people would be venturing off here and there then everything is manageable can be tough finding the middle ground.

[Sir Roofy]

Checking Facebook to see a shipload of fines and defects getting around in vic today :(

Where did you see that young fella

[the evil twin]

Where did you see that young fella

Well, I'll go out on a limb with a wild ass out of left field guess and say... 'Facebook'

Bwaahahaha

[Sir Roofy]

Well, I'll go out on a limb with a wild ass out of left field guess and say... 'Facebook'

Bwaahahaha

Good one I'm on face ache to but didn't read any of that must be a secret page aye

[the evil twin]

Good one I'm on face ache to but didn't read any of that must be a secret page aye

Hiya mate... me too, but I only use it to give people the shits when I am in a bad mood... works wonders for attitude readjustment.

[Sir Roofy]

Hiya mate... me too, but I only use it to give people the shits when I am in a bad mood... works wonders for attitude readjustment.

Love your pun's and Oracle's your welcome anytime

[BillsGU]

Over the years I have run many, many trips (club trips, paid trips for a touring company and trips with friends) and getting people up and going is always a problem. Not only in the morning but at every stop. For instance, when everyone else has had lunch and ready to go there are always some that "have to go to the loo" or "have to refuel" or whatever, even though they have been standing around and dicking about for ages. Also, you find it is always the same person/s causing the issue. You have a choice of cheesing them off, or them getting everyone else off side, by telling them they have to stick to the departure time.

On my trips I always give a time and direction of departure. If you are not ready you can catch up. It is amazing how quickly this catches on and in no time everyone gets the message.

[macca]

That's a really tricky one Macca,

If you were planning a big interstate trip with a big group and plan on a number side ventures then as long as everyone in the group is clear that that was the plan and people would be venturing off here and there then everything is manageable can be tough finding the middle ground.

That is more what I'm thinking of, not on a weekend trip in rough country.

Although it does work out that way sometimes with people leaving early or alternate route past a hard bit etc.

Now you know how some spend their weekends there is an opportunity to make it very clear when you plan to get moving.

My technique with stops is point out loo's or servo's if available, and watch when cups are getting empty with a call of "saddle up" to get every one back in their cars. Give them a couple of minutes and drive off slowly calling for tail-end-charly to sing out when he is on the move. Never had an issue except one micro managing trip leader, never been on a trip he has led since!



On my trips I always give a time and direction of departure. If you are not ready you can catch up. It is amazing how quickly this catches on and in no time everyone gets the message.

Works for me!

[Bacho86]

Well I'm pleased to say that we had a great long weekend trip as well, only saw one cop on the way in Friday night towards Licola pulling over a P player driving an old jeep Cherokee with fat simex tyres sticking out

Even got a surprise driving through and camping in the snow on Saturday night part way up butcher country track

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/198.jpg


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[threedogs]

You could always follow Range Rover Club protocol by please being in the departure lounge by 11am sharp
Chardy's will be served prior to take off and ETA to Maree will be approx 1.30. Please keep your trays in the upright position
till the seat belt light goes out. lol True story believe it or not lol

[Plasnart]

Well I'm pleased to say that we had a great long weekend trip as well, only saw one cop on the way in Friday night towards Licola pulling over a P player driving an old jeep Cherokee with fat simex tyres sticking out

Even got a surprise driving through and camping in the snow on Saturday night part way up butcher country track

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/198.jpg


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Was that taken Sunday morning Bacho? When I went to bed at 2.30am Sunday my rooftop camper had frozen shut! I had to prize it open with a bloody spoon!!!!! Never frozen shut before so it was damn cold, and that was in Lerderderg not even high country.

[Bacho86]

Was that taken Sunday morning Bacho? When I went to bed at 2.30am Sunday my rooftop camper had frozen shut! I had to prize it open with a bloody spoon!!!!! Never frozen shut before so it was damn cold, and that was in Lerderderg not even high country.

Yeh that was taken on Sunday morning part way up Butcher Country Track. Was only -1.7 degress at 7am Sunday morning (compared to -5 degrees on Tuesday morning near Wonnagatta Station) but we had a decent amount of snow over night and it had rain / sleeted / snowed majority of Saturday on the way up

I had issues with my passenger door freezing over on Monday morning and also issues with fuel starvation on Tuesday morning because it was so cold

67585

[Hodge]

I had issues with my passenger door freezing over on Monday morning and also issues with fuel starvation on Tuesday morning because it was so cold

Have you added alpine diesel or the additive?
Our family friend (the bloke whos 3L blew up recently) was up near Dargo and he nearly ended up on a flat bed because his diesel waxed up and was in a world of bother for a while. He rang me Sunday arvo asking what the do and I had no clue what to tell him.

[Bacho86]

Have you added alpine diesel or the additive?
Our family friend (the bloke whos 3L blew up recently) was up near Dargo and he nearly ended up on a flat bed because his diesel waxed up and was in a world of bother for a while. He rang me Sunday arvo asking what the do and I had no clue what to tell him.

There was no alpine diesel available in Traralgon (last fuel stop before Licola) and we didn't realise we would have needed it yet as it is only early June! Ironically we filled up with alpine mix at Myrtleford for the trip back to Melbourne!

Interesting on the trip both of the CRD vehicles (my GU Patrol and a late model hilux) had similar fuel starvation issues associated with the colder weather, whilst the older mechanical injected 105 and 80 series cruisers didn't have any issues. We put it down to the finer tolerances and higher PSI that the fuel is at for CRD vehicles...

To get the GU started all that was required was to re-prime the fuel filter and we were away. The hilux needed a bit of hand priming in combination with hot water over the fuel filters to get it moving.

[Hodge]

Nice one. You got away lucky. This poor bugger isn't having much luck. Few weeks after nissan put a new donk in it, now hes having all sorts of issues with the fuel, injector pump is throwing hissy fits after the diesel waxed over.

I think you're right about the tighter tolerances in the common rails, hence it's so much more pickier on fuel compared to older systems.

Regardless, you had great trip! Waking up to a snowed over camp is on my to-do list!! Fingers crossed for Liccola next month !!

[mudski]

There was no alpine diesel available in Traralgon (last fuel stop before Licola) and we didn't realise we would have needed it yet as it is only early June! Ironically we filled up with alpine mix at Myrtleford for the trip back to Melbourne!

Interesting on the trip both of the CRD vehicles (my GU Patrol and a late model hilux) had similar fuel starvation issues associated with the colder weather, whilst the older mechanical injected 105 and 80 series cruisers didn't have any issues. We put it down to the finer tolerances and higher PSI that the fuel is at for CRD vehicles...

To get the GU started all that was required was to re-prime the fuel filter and we were away. The hilux needed a bit of hand priming in combination with hot water over the fuel filters to get it moving.
Mate id love to tag along with you on one of your high country trips one time. Im alway envious of you and your trips.

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[Hodge]

Mate id love to tag along with you on one of your high country trips one time. Im alway envious of you and your trips.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

This + 1

[rusty00]

I seen you guys camping and a few others, thought you were bloody mad as the sleet, rain and wind was going on, top photo.
There was a group in swags under a tarp huddling around, keen.

I added the additive to my tanks at 600 meters and before heading higher.
Read some net stories and followed their advice, the common rails don't like the waxing of fuel.
Didn't have any issues with the additive in any situation.


Well I'm pleased to say that we had a great long weekend trip as well, only saw one cop on the way in Friday night towards Licola pulling over a P player driving an old jeep Cherokee with fat simex tyres sticking out

Even got a surprise driving through and camping in the snow on Saturday night part way up butcher country track

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/198.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bacho86]

Mate id love to tag along with you on one of your high country trips one time. Im alway envious of you and your trips.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk


This + 1

Yeh no problems at all , I'll put out a message next time were planning something for sure!
I've got a heap of photos as well, only on Facebook atm, but I'll sort through and put some up here as well later




Regardless, you had great trip! Waking up to a snowed over camp is on my to-do list!! Fingers crossed for Liccola next month !!

It's an absolutely crazy experience waking up camp covered in snow! You can see how big the fire was as well in the photo by the offset ring of snow around it lol

Licola trip should definitely see snow, not sure if it'll snow down in Licola camp, but regardless you'll have a great time!!


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[Bacho86]

I seen you guys camping and a few others, thought you were bloody mad as the sleet, rain and wind was going on, top photo.
There was a group in swags under a tarp huddling around, keen.

I added the additive to my tanks at 600 meters and before heading higher.
Read some net stories and followed their advice, the common rails don't like the waxing of fuel.
Didn't have any issues with the additive in any situation.

You should have come and said gday!

We were actually very lucky to find that spot, only pulled in at 5:30pm. The original plan was to camp around wonangatta, but due to a combination of track condition and experience of drivers we spent a lot of time winching and undertaking recoveries on Butcher Country link track.

Yeh we saw the hunters under the tarp on Sunday morning, had to give the White 4.2L GU a jump start as both his batteries had gone flat!

Will definitely be packing the additive next time for sure, where'd you buy it from?


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[Winnie]

Repco/autobarn/supercheap keep it in stock. I've never used it but haven't had snow at my camp before either.

[Bacho86]

Repco/autobarn/supercheap keep it in stock. I've never used it but haven't had snow at my camp before either.

Thanks Winnie, I'll keep my eye out next time I'm in store


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[rusty00]

Now I know your from here I will say hi next time. If you were there at 5.30 then it most likely wasn't you guys we seen.
There were around 5 camp sites we passed.
We pushed pretty hard as one of the guys with us only could see out of one eye, crazy for even going.
We didn't want to get stuck in the dark.
We only had to snatch 2 out of the side of the steps.
I got the additive from Transtyle autos Hallam when I had my auto serviced, $15 for 970mm.
Joe there knows his stuff.
It can be purchased anywhere and brand I used was Lucas.
You can't put too much in as the instructions says.


QUOTE=Bacho86;682745]You should have come and said gday!

We were actually very lucky to find that spot, only pulled in at 5:30pm. The original plan was to camp around wonangatta, but due to a combination of track condition and experience of drivers we spent a lot of time winching and undertaking recoveries on Butcher Country link track.

Yeh we saw the hunters under the tarp on Sunday morning, had to give the White 4.2L GU a jump start as both his batteries had gone flat!

Will definitely be packing the additive next time for sure, where'd you buy it from?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

[Hodge]

Not queens birthday, but I just got pulled over before and nearly got shafted for the bonnet scoop.
He had a quick look around the car, took note of tyre size and asked me whether my spare wheel light kicks in when I'm reversing. It does, but there was a switch that just happened to be in the off position he couldn't see. So dodged that bullet. lol

Then when I thought he was supposedly happy with everything, his off-sider began looking at and questioning the scoop.
Sat in the drivers seat and according to him he couldn't see the top of my bullbar/bonnet even though he was nearly 6".

I just happened to have the engineering certificate from cross country in the back of my car printed out and I'm certain that sort of made him back off. Even though it states nothing about vision obstruction, I think he realized this was from a reputable company and not some backyard job.
Otherwise he was booking me for it 100% ! I asked he what the regs were but hes answer was he was simply not happy with it as it obstructs my vision as a driver.

Talking about it with Mudski before and he scoured the ADR's and the scoop is 100% in the clear! Gonna print them out as well and keep in the car.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=67716&stc=1

[Winnie]

Do you have a digital copy of that certificate?

[Hodge]

Do you have a digital copy of that certificate?

I do mate. It came on a DVD that cross country threw in the pack which has various documents and stuff including that one.
mudski

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9vtUnobmrF8R0ROSld6aWIwMW8/view

[Winnie]

Thank you mate, just saved a copy to my phone. Mine doesn't have a steel reinforcement but it still might save me one day ;)

[threedogs]

My scoop doesn't obstruct my view, mudski would you know if that is ADR approved
Ill give Guest 4x4 a buzz tomorrow

Sucks bigs one Eric, must of been an off day

[Bigcol]

bloody hell they are cheeky hey Hodge

[Hodge]

My scoop doesn't obstruct my view, @mudski (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/member.php?u=10010) would you know if that is ADR approved

Sucks bigs one Eric, must of been an off day

Yeah I got away this time. Mark sent me some pics of ADR rules regarding this and the scoop is 100% in the clear.
Also mentions being able to see the ground 11m in front of the car which passes with ease, so gonna get that printed and kept in the car too, in case I run into this cop again. Or another one whos interested in the scoop.

[Hodge]

bloody hell they are cheeky hey @Hodge (http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/member.php?u=15680)

You get that every now and then mate. They're not "all" out there to get you. Little while ago going through a booze bus, I compliment on the 4.2, said was a nice rig and very rare. Quick bretho and then see ya later!

[threedogs]

Yeah I got away this time. Mark sent me some pics of ADR rules regarding this and the scoop is 100% in the clear.
Also mentions being able to see the ground 11m in front of the car which passes with ease, so gonna get that printed and kept in the car too, in case I run into this cop again. Or another one whos interested in the scoop.

I have a strato drivers seat which Ive lifted 40mm way better vision over OE seat
11mtrs I can see 11 ft in front easy,,
again I think its targeted at the Hoons not so much the 4x4 community??

[mudski]

Email me that certificate if you can bud. mark@northern4x4parts.com.au and I'll send you the ADR's for it...

https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP6_Section_LH_Body_and_Chassis_01Jan2011_v3.pdf
Page 12 section 4. We need to measure this out Eric to be 100% sure. But I think we'll be right....

[Dan02]

would it be appropriate / worthwhile adding to the forum library. would be handy to have if its easy to get to, wonder what would happen if you shoved your ipad at 'em with the relevant Code and section displayed

[AB]

would it be appropriate / worthwhile adding to the forum library. would be handy to have if its easy to get to, wonder what would happen if you shoved your ipad at 'em with the relevant Code and section displayed Good idea.

Email it to me Marky if you can.

We could start a section on legitimate facts and information for members to utilise perhaps?

[Hodge]

Email me that certificate if you can bud. mark@northern4x4parts.com.au and I'll send you the ADR's for it...

https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP6_Section_LH_Body_and_Chassis_01Jan2011_v3.pdf
Page 12 section 4. We need to measure this out Eric to be 100% sure. But I think we'll be right....


Good idea.

Email it to me Marky if you can.

We could start a section on legitimate facts and information for members to utilise perhaps?

I've linked the file here. It's in PDF format.
This should/should've been sent with every CC intercooler/scoop setup.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9vtUnobmrF8R0ROSld6aWIwMW8/view

[mudski]

Good idea.

Email it to me Marky if you can.

We could start a section on legitimate facts and information for members to utilise perhaps?
Should i just add this to the first post in teh rules and regs thread?

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[AB]

Should i just add this to the first post in teh rules and regs thread? Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk Thumbs up Mudski!!!

[mudski]

All done. I have never used google drive so hope it works....

[mudski]

would it be appropriate / worthwhile adding to the forum library. would be handy to have if its easy to get to, wonder what would happen if you shoved your ipad at 'em with the relevant Code and section displayed

If anyone has any aftermarket accessories on their ride and they can supply a certificate of compliance like the Cross Country one please let me know, pm me or email me the documents and I can add it onto this thread....
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?36512-Vehicle-Engineers-reports-4WD-Modification-rules-whats-allowed-what-not

[Hodge]

All done. I have never used google drive so hope it works....

Will be perfect mate. You can leave my link up like you did or download the file from there and AB can host it direct from the forum.

[nissannewby]

Did anyone else see they guy who got done for the standard non working tail lights on a patrol? He did fight it and had it over turned but just shows how much some of the authorities know.

[Hodge]

Done for something thats not working right off the factory floor? That's sad.

[nissannewby]

Done for something thats not working right off the factory floor? That's sad.

Yep. I dont know the exact details but I think he had to provide evidence that they didnt work from factory.

[Hodge]

Yep. I dont know the exact details but I think he had to provide evidence that they didnt work from factory.

It is so crap. I mean, another example is tonight when the 2 of them were going to ping me for the scoop because it didn't look right out of the drivers seat. Guilty until proven in the clear ... Shit system.

[threedogs]

Done for something thats not working right off the factory floor? That's sad.

And yet they over looked your pillar pod,,,,,,,,,, again a reason
I think they are rules directed more at the Hoon scene than 4x4s

[bazzaboy]

I think everyone should write a letter to the Mansfield Council suggesting that it would be in their best interests to have a meeting with Police, asking for justification why the family 4WD fertility is being targeted in the Mansfield area and High Country.
I know from experience that the Mansfield area is becoming not the place to be on long weekend or school holidays, due to "over zealous" policing of 4wd holiday makers. The Mansfield economy will soon start to suffer with less patronage. It wont be long before they lose their title of "Gateway to the High Country".

[BigRAWesty]

I think everyone should write a letter to the Mansfield Council suggesting that it would be in their best interests to have a meeting with Police, asking for justification why the family 4WD fertility is being targeted in the Mansfield area and High Country.
I know from experience that the Mansfield area is becoming not the place to be on long weekend or school holidays, due to "over zealous" policing of 4wd holiday makers. The Mansfield economy will soon start to suffer with less patronage. It wont be long before they lose their title of "Gateway to the High Country".
Already been done..
The council memebers basically said if your rig is not legal they cop it..
Which is true..
They are taking a proactive approach which is sometimes over the top but if it's illegal it's illegal..

[Hodge]

Already been done bazza.
Councils reply was if you're legal and have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about driving through Mansfield .

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[mudski]

.... It wont be long before they lose their title of "Gateway to the High Country".

You just need to know the "back roads to the high country".
Lol.

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[MB]

You just need to know the "back roads to the high country".
Lol.

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http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/245.jpg

[mudski]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/06/245.jpg

Bronwyn Bishop style....

[AB]

Bronwyn Bishop style.... Let's go camping she said....

[mudski]

Let's go camping she said....
You been outside lately? Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey.

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[MudRunnerTD]

Let's go camping she said....

To Geelong thanks pilot!!

[Rossco]

Let's go camping she said....


Bronwyn Bishop style....
"We'll take the 4WD" !!

[Plasnart]

Could there be any better job than a chinook pilot?? Those things give me an absolute hor......ah, sorry just remembered the B1B.

Woop....game over.


MudRunnerTD :bananarock:

[the evil twin]

... you seen what happens when one of them suckers crash?

I would want either a plane with an ejection seat or a chopper with a shit load of guns meself.

[mudski]

Could there be any better job than a chinook pilot?? Those things give me an absolute hor......ah, sorry just remembered the B1B.

Woop....game over.

Kleenex please.

MudRunnerTD :bananarock:

Yeah I remember when the Watsonia barracks used to have open days and they'd show off all their stuff. They had a Chinook there taking joy rides. When it took off once the wind it blew up was that great it picked up one of those steel A frame signs and flung it into the crowd watching it take off. Bloody mayhem it was. But as a kid. I loved it.

[Plasnart]

... you seen what happens when one of them suckers crash?

I would want either a plane with an ejection seat or a chopper with a shit load of guns meself.

Autorotation land it like a boss!!:smileyvault-cute-bi

[the evil twin]

Autorotation land it like a boss!!:smileyvault-cute-bi

You ever seen what happens when you auto rotate a 'Chook... be safer to crash the MoFo

Hehehehe

[Plasnart]

You ever seen what happens when you auto rotate a 'Chook... be safer to crash the MoFo

Hehehehe

Course i havent ET, just saying what i'd do perfectly with no experience!!

And after i autorotated a chinook down like a feather i'd step out and say hey what were you all pissing your pants about?

Then i'd go to the pilots bar and order a fluffy duck and beat the chicks off with a stick.

[Sprock]

You just need to know the "back roads to the high country".
Lol.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk
Haha that's the attitude I like to hear 👌🏼👍🏼😝

[Sprock]

It is so crap. I mean, another example is tonight when the 2 of them were going to ping me for the scoop because it didn't look right out of the drivers seat. Guilty until proven in the clear ... Shit system.
Yep, this is the same but slightly different but sort of the same situation, mate of mine got done for a heap of logbook offences- Like putting in his book that he left somewhere at 10:30 but there is a fuel receipt for that location for 10:45 etc - minor stuff but over 6mths these things added up to about $20,000 in fines , anyway when he got married his truck was still working with another driver in it so in his defence at his court case he showed the accommodation receipts in Port Douglas for his honeymoon and said " I was away between those dates but my fuel card was still being used so how can you prove it was me at the other at times?" and they said " we don't have to prove it was you - you have to prove it wasn't" that's what they said in court . It's bullshit but that's how it is - I've been to court for similar reasons - except I won 😉

[the evil twin]

Could there be any better job than a chinook pilot?? Those things give me an absolute hor......ah, sorry just remembered the B1B.




... you seen what happens when one of them suckers crash?




Autorotation land it like a boss!!:smileyvault-cute-bi


...You ever seen what happens when you auto rotate a 'Chook... be safer to crash the MoFo

Hehehehe


Course i havent ET, just saying what i'd do perfectly with no experience!!

And after i autorotated a chinook down like a feather i'd step out and say hey what were you all pissing your pants about?

Then i'd go to the pilots bar and order a fluffy duck and beat the chicks off with a stick.

...you ever seen the 'Chicks' when you sober up up after too many Fluffy Ducks.
they have already been beaten with the ugly stick... a lot... be safer to die in the crash

ROFLMAO, this is fun, back to you Plas

Your right about the B1 Lancer as well...
I've been in a B1 (on the ground only unfortunately) back in '91 when the Yanks had 2 over for Pitch Black that year.
I agree they are a dead heat between them and an F111 for the coolest modern planes ever.
They just radiate 'Kill 'em all and let God decide'
Anyone passing thru Evans Head (NSW) in your travels, you need to make the F111 museum there a 'must see'.

[Bigcol]

...you ever seen the 'Chicks' when you sober up up after too many Fluffy Ducks.
they have already been beaten with the ugly stick... a lot... be safer to die in the crash

ROFLMAO, this is fun, back to you Plas


oh, and I thought he was talking about fluffy duck chicks...............

how wrong was I then........

[the evil twin]

oh, and I thought he was talking about fluffy duck chicks...............

how wrong was I then........

ROFL...

Col... Col... Col... only a Prado Driver would beat Fluffy Duck Chicks with a stick

[Bigcol]

thats what made the penny drop................

I was thinking just how kinky is he to have duck chicks beaten with a stick

[Plasnart]

Haha you fly boys crack me up!


https://youtu.be/nLGzojday4o

[BillsGU]

DID you know .................

The Army sleeps under the stars?

The Navy navigates by the stars?

and

The RAAF picks their motels by the number of stars?

[Hodge]

Just listened to a 4x4 Podcast featuring Tim Bates. He mentions Mansfield and how businesses are feeling the pinch and numbers of people going through there are dropping all the time. Great listen about the Wonangatta story as well.

Very interesting listen if you have some time.

http://4x4earth.com/podcasts/18-tim-bates-and-the-wonnangatta-murders/

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=68103&stc=1

[mudski]

Yeah I listen to this last night. Was good.