Suspension questions

[BigRAWesty]

Ok..
So after the trip the gu still has the ride comfort as our old 85 nuffild tractor....
So I'm doing it once and doing it right,
After what MR said about a blokes rig (Bob I think it was) who built his truck from the ground up and spent most his coin on good suspension..

So I've started research today..
I have a couple of main criteria..
I want to used engineered arms, no caster bushes or drop boxes.
3" lift
And smooth ride that's going to last 10 years and be able to take a beating in the outback.

I've hit up superior today and they have come back with 2 kits which they recommend..
There kit with tough dog gear
https://www.superiorengineering.com.au/4x4-suspension/suspension-lift-kits?product_id=28335&filter=140%2c355

And their kit with their shocks..
https://www.superiorengineering.com.au/4x4-suspension/suspension-lift-kits?product_id=28385&filter=140%2c355

Ok..
So who else do kits.
I was looking at remote res shock kits so for them to suggest tough dog has taken me back a bit lol..
Ie this
https://www.superiorengineering.com.au/4x4-suspension/suspension-lift-kits?product_id=28270&filter=140,355

Budget..
Well. I'm thinking do it once and do it right..
But not rediculous lol..

[Ben-e-boy]

No matter what arms, shocks etc you put in if the springs are too heavy it will ride rough.

No one is really going to be able to tell you what you like. For that reason is why at the most I had 6 SETS of springs in my shed. Not including the ones on the ute

[sooty_10]

I think my springs are too stiff. I had them in a ute with steel tray and canopy with under tray water tank etc etc. Now they are in a wagon with drawers. Some how I dont think the weight comparison is similar 😔. New springs are next on my agenda. What rating shocks are folks running with rear drawer setups in wagons? It gets loaded up a bit too.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[BigRAWesty]

No matter what arms, shocks etc you put in if the springs are too heavy it will ride rough.

No one is really going to be able to tell you what you like. For that reason is why at the most I had 6 SETS of springs in my shed. Not including the ones on the ute
Tbh I think now my shocks are valved to tight to suit the 3.5 gmv upgrade it has..
I got springs off Kat, and they were to soft for them..
So I really have no idea what I have, and I'd ideally want to go 3" as atm it's a very short 2" as we noticed this trip. .

[Maxhead]

I have the same issue Westy. My ride is fuckerd as far as comfort goes.
I build my truck to tow 3t meaning extra heavy duty rear springs and mid duty springs in front allowing for bar and winch.

Shocks will only help to damper your ride and not the rigidness.

Once I have spare cash I will change to soft springs in the rear and install air bags and maybe tower supports for when I'm towing


I'm really sick and tired of my ride comfort but at this stage it stay the way it is....

[MudRunnerTD]

I'd go the Remotes Profender without hesitation out of that lot.

The TD set looks like it's missing adjustable uppers in the photo?

Do you have any HD parts under the car now?

Are you going to get the lift re-engineered? Why do you want dropped arms?

[MudRunnerTD]

Just read the add for the TDs and it lists the adjustable uppers just missing in the photo.

Note none of those kits include a HD Tie rod which I highly recommend you add to your list.

[Ben-e-boy]

Tbh I think now my shocks are valved to tight to suit the 3.5 gmv upgrade it has..
I got springs off Kat, and they were to soft for them..
So I really have no idea what I have, and I'd ideally want to go 3" as atm it's a very short 2" as we noticed this trip. .


Your shocks aren't going to be the issue. You've got gvm upgrade springs

[BigRAWesty]

Your shocks aren't going to be the issue. You've got gvm upgrade springs
No not anymore.. there on the shelf..
I fitted softer springs from Kat.. she said they were too soft for their wagon.
Bit shocks from the gmv kit are still in..

[BigRAWesty]

I'd go the Remotes Profender without hesitation out of that lot.

Well them or the amadas. .


The TD set looks like it's missing adjustable uppers in the photo?

Yes it's missing in photo (as you read later)


Do you have any HD parts under the car now?

From what I can pick, only the tower braces and laminated rear diff


Are you going to get the lift re-engineered? Why do you want dropped arms?

No wasn't going to bother.

Trying to not be bait..
Fabricated arms look stock..
Drop boxes are instant defect, and lately I've seen more and more cops having a look under rigs aswell as around.
I personally don't like radius bushes in anything more than 2"..

[Clunk]

Live axle and comfort don't go hand in hand, tis the nature of the beast.... stop ya whinging hahahahaha

If you want comfort get something with independant suspension all round IFS/IRS or whatever you call it.

[BigRAWesty]

Live axle and comfort don't go hand in hand, tis the nature of the beast.... stop ya whinging hahahahaha

If you want comfort get something with independant suspension all round IFS/IRS or whatever you call it.
Yes I do realize I'm not going to get Chrysler 300c comfort from my patrol..
But when the highway is worse than outback dirt tracks we did over the weekend something has to change..
I swear my wheels were off the black top more than on it and some of the corners it did drift a bit.. was only doing 100km/h....

[BigRAWesty]

Who else do kits like superior? Can only find one other on ebay.

Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk

[Ben-e-boy]

No not anymore.. there on the shelf..
I fitted softer springs from Kat.. she said they were too soft for their wagon.
Bit shocks from the gmv kit are still in..

What springs are in there now?

[BigRAWesty]

What springs are in there now?
No idea. A set that Kat had and we're too soft for their setup.
There red springs and a very short 2".

[MudRunnerTD]

Hi Kallen I have got a mate who sells Fox gear, he will put a price together for you on his gear.

Had a chat with him about your drop arms and he and I are on the same page. Hybrid arms incorporating drop style boxes are a far better option than drop arms. Drop arms are good for correcting caster but still are deficient when chasing articulation and no better than the Nissan set up. Hybrid add the bush at the rear and are a much better design. Removing arms and boxes to clear a defect is pretty basic mate and wouldn't be the reason for not fitting boxes or hybrids! Did you see the pics of the police measuring a lift the other week with a tape. Boxes won't matter that day bud.

My mate deals with Racebred rods and arms. He doesn't sell drop arms at all, only hybrids. He sells Fox shocks both Tuned, remote res and Triple bypass. He also builds 12mm fuel pumps and performance Deisel gear. Keen to bring him on as a vendor actually. See how we go.

I will get you some pricing ASAP mate.

[BigRAWesty]

Hi Kallen I have got a mate who sells Fox gear, he will put a price together for you on his gear.

Had a chat with him about your drop arms and he and I are on the same page. Hybrid arms incorporating drop style boxes are a far better option than drop arms. Drop arms are good for correcting caster but still are deficient when chasing articulation and no better than the Nissan set up. Hybrid add the bush at the rear and are a much better design. Removing arms and boxes to clear a defect is pretty basic mate and wouldn't be the reason for not fitting boxes or hybrids! Did you see the pics of the police measuring a lift the other week with a tape. Boxes won't matter that day bud.

My mate deals with Racebred rods and arms. He doesn't sell drop arms at all, only hybrids. He sells Fox shocks both Tuned, remote res and Triple bypass. He also builds 12mm fuel pumps and performance Deisel gear. Keen to bring him on as a vendor actually. See how we go.

I will get you some pricing ASAP mate.
Thanks mate..
No I didn't see those pics.
I guess yes 3" your gone but it's less obvious with dropped arms..
Drop boxes are one look defects.
Articulation isn't what I'm after as I'll probably fit airbags to the rear again for the load capacity..

But thanks for thinking of me bloke and chasing a price..
I'm keen to see fox prices compared to superior..
I've basically narrowed it down to the Profender or superior shocks.. purely due to the adjustable component..
Soften them up for the off road and stiffen up for on road..
If armarda had that option they would be in too..

But I have been keen to price fox..

I've sent "big o 4x4" an email too but yet to see a reply..

[threedogs]

Have you looked at the flexi coils ,
you'll avoid the skate board look
with the 2" and 33" regs

[BigRAWesty]

Have you looked at the flexi coils ,
you'll avoid the skate board look
with the 2" and 33" regs
It'll have 33's under it soon enough

[threedogs]

What I meant to say was those flexi coils will articulate
like a 3" lift but look like you only have a 2". I think Mudski
has Flexi under his Patrol.

I wonder what formula they use to indicate a 2" lift
as sometimes there is a big difference in ride height
between brands.??

[MudRunnerTD]

Pics of how Police measure lift in Vic. This guy was holding a Current Road Worthy Certificate that he showed these 2 officers! He got a Canary anyway!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/05/274.jpg

Drop arms or drop boxes make no difference here. Done is Done!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/05/275.jpg

Yes officer Done is Done! Maths is Maths too. :(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk cause AB turned it back on!!

[threedogs]

Wouldnt be happy with the way the tape is bent to measure it

[BigRAWesty]

Pics of how Police measure lift in Vic. This guy was holding a Current Road Worthy Certificate that he showed these 2 officers! He got a Canary anyway!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/05/274.jpg

Drop arms or drop boxes make no difference here. Done is Done!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/05/275.jpg

Yes officer Done is Done! Maths is Maths too. :(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk cause AB turned it back on!!


Wouldnt be happy with the way the tape is bent to measure it
I'm with John. That reading is BS..
Unless it's miles high..
But if they defected him for a few mm I'd be taking those cops in..

Anyway..
I'm still torn between 2" or 3" anyway..
Your GU looked normal MR when you were down here last year..
That's why I'm thinking 3"

Bump stops is another I haven't thought about with the 3"..

[mudski]

Trying to not be bait..
Fabricated arms look stock..
Drop boxes are instant defect, and lately I've seen more and more cops having a look under rigs aswell as around.
I personally don't like radius bushes in anything more than 2"..

And so is an exhaust with no cat. I'd be more concerned about that over drop boxes.

[BigRAWesty]

And so is an exhaust with no cat. I'd be more concerned about that over drop boxes.
Yea that's being rectified..

[BigRAWesty]

Ok guys..
Crunch time..
I have dropped the 3" idea and looking at going the following

2" springs
3" shocks
80 series bumps all round
Raise the front shock tower 25 - 30mm (depending on how much I can without needing to drill the body to fit shocks)

Now...
Fox have come in at $1700 for their adjustable remote res shocks.
And $220 a pair of linear rate springs or $250 for variable rate.

Superior have come to $1420 for their shocks and $240 for springs..

So.. Are fox worth the extra?
Both are adjustable on the fly.
Both fully rebuildable.
Both 2" mono tubes. .

Is fox better or is it brand name pays??

Cheers

[mudski]

Oem bump stops will be enough for that lift i would think.

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[BigRAWesty]

Oem bump stops will be enough for that lift i would think.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk
It's more the progressive finish in after..

[mudski]

There was a FB vid or something about the yota bump stops not actually being any better than OEM upon testing. Dunno where it is though.

[MudRunnerTD]

There was a FB vid or something about the yota bump stops not actually being any better than OEM upon testing. Dunno where it is though.

Yes they compress down to the same or smaller than the nissans but Nissan Bumps (on the rear) just stop where are the 80s will absorb some force as they compress.

You are going to hopefully do 200,000kms on these shocks Kallen. Fox would get my money. In the grand skeem of things the extra couple of $100 will not be missed in a couple of months and forgotten over 5 or 10 years.

[BigRAWesty]

Just looking at pics it seems fox aren't adjustable on the fly like superior superior are..

That may be a deciding factor there..
Seeing I don't have a close dealer around me the ability to easily adjust my self or even to suit the terain is a winner in my eyes..

But yes the 80 bumps are to add a more progressive stop to the travel instead of a rubber brick lol

[taslucas]

*Scheme 😐

>>>tappin from tassie

[BigRAWesty]

*Scheme 😐

>>>tappin from tassie
Ya lost me....

[taslucas]

Dazzas post

>>>tappin from tassie

[BigRAWesty]

Dazzas post

>>>tappin from tassie
Ow got it now....

[Clunk]

Ow got it now....
OH............. [emoji12]

[taslucas]

Sounds like it hurt, westy?

>>>tappin from tassie

[Winnie]

Are you really going to be doing the type of driving that needs Fox shocks?
I reckon you'd be fine with a 2" OME lift. That's what I have, flex isn't great and it can be a little rough but when the car is fully loaded for trips it is smooth as to drive and handles awesome on the road!

[Maxhead]

Are you really going to be doing the type of driving that needs Fox shocks?
I reckon you'd be fine with a 2" OME lift. That's what I have, flex isn't great and it can be a little rough but when the car is fully loaded for trips it is smooth as to drive and handles awesome on the road!


Don't stress Winnie, we all know Westy doesn't listen to any suggestions so this is what will go on the wagon :) bwahahaha

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-NISSAN-PATROL-GQ-GU-SHOCK-ABSORBERS-FRONT-REAR-CoiL-Spring-/300957542915?hash=item461277aa03:g:hWkAAOSwpDdU3Da w

[nissannewby]

Always buy the best shocks you can afford. Dont stress to much about adjustments. Once they are set you wont touch them again and unless you know how to convey your vehicles dynamics into adjustments then having adjusters is kind of pointless. I would get the fox.

[BigRAWesty]

Are you really going to be doing the type of driving that needs Fox shocks?
I reckon you'd be fine with a 2" OME lift. That's what I have, flex isn't great and it can be a little rough but when the car is fully loaded for trips it is smooth as to drive and handles awesome on the road!
Well that's what I'm also contemplating..
But..
This is a 10 year car atleast..
So I'm thinking along the lines of do it once and do it right..
we plan to do a lot more trips now the kids are a touch older and nissa has a stable job with AL.
And some of the trips will be remote, corrigations etc etc..
Sure OME will handle it..
But these shocks will eat it..
As they say, happy wife happy life..
If the kids and wife are happy to be in the car for weeks at a time no mater what the conditions then it'll make convincing that much easier..

There are a few reasons I'm looking at this level of shock..
1- quality.
2- support
3- adjustability
4- rebuildable (10 years is a long time)
5- ride comfort (really that is no.1)

So yea..
I think my mind is made up..
Talking to darren mate quickly adjustable fox shocks are more $$$ again..
So I think the superior remote res shocks are the winner..

[MudRunnerTD]

*Scheme 😐

>>>tappin from tassie

bhahahaha! Mate i typed that on my phone this morning and thought....WTF That aint right! but was Blank. Owned!!

[MudRunnerTD]

Always buy the best shocks you can afford. Dont stress to much about adjustments. Once they are set you wont touch them again and unless you know how to convey your vehicles dynamics into adjustments then having adjusters is kind of pointless. I would get the fox.

^^^^^^^ What this guy Said! ^^^^^^^

100%

Especially if you intend to run polyairs or something in the rear for touring? they are your adjustment and all that you will need IMO. The Front load will Not Change Ever once you have it set up with your bar and winch in place.

Chat with Matt from ProDiesel. I assume the Fox have the variable valving in them like the OME. Infinitely Variable. On that basis the OME will make micro changes to valving on each and even compression to account for the presented weight, speed of each movement. You will find the Fox will be the same. You, the Operator, User, will never be able to tune your shocks that well.

Initial appropriate core Valving is the key. Provide your front and rear weights to the Shock provider and they should be able to provide you the right setup.

[MudRunnerTD]

My OME have over 170,000kms on the springs and Shocks. That is Awesome! Not looking to change any time soon but when i do i will apply the rule from Matty above. I will be looking Up the tree not down. Fox for me or if the funds are there Kings Smoothies for the win.

Note also.... If you go to sell your GU in 5 or 10 years and it has Fox or Kings under it. Remove them and fit what you replacing with them now, Your Fox or Kings will still be worth Big Coin second hand.

[BigRAWesty]

^^^^^^^ What this guy Said! ^^^^^^^

100%

Especially if you intend to run polyairs or something in the rear for touring? they are your adjustment and all that you will need IMO. The Front load will Not Change Ever once you have it set up with your bar and winch in place.

Chat with Matt from ProDiesel. I assume the Fox have the variable valving in them like the OME. Infinitely Variable. On that basis the OME will make micro changes to valving on each and even compression to account for the presented weight, speed of each movement. You will find the Fox will be the same. Your, the Operator, User, will never be able to tune your shocks that well.

Initial appropriate core Valving is the key. Provide your front and rear weights to the Shock provider and they should be able to provide you the right setup.

Had a quick chat to Matt this morning and no fox don't have adjusters on them..
That's an extra $600..
Both companies will set the shocks to suit my car in house before sending them out.
But that extra adjustability means a smoother ride over corrigations etc and the ability to firm em up when fully loaded..
Poly airs will take the load yes, eventually.. but they won't stop roll..

Dam you guys..
Im torn...

[MudRunnerTD]

The Shocks have no effect on body roll mate, that is All Spring and Sway bars. The purpose of the shock is solely to Dampen the spring. It dampens how quickly the compression occurs and Dampens the Rebound of that compression. How much force is required for the compression is all Spring though. Thats why the Airbags would suit because they actually Increase the required Compression.

Matt also sells a 24mm HD Sway bar which i have on the back of my GIV and its great.

[MudRunnerTD]

Had a quick chat to Matt this morning and no fox don't have adjusters on them..
That's an extra $600..
Both companies will set the shocks to suit my car in house before sending them out.
But that extra adjustability means a smoother ride over corrigations etc and the ability to firm em up when fully loaded..
Poly airs will take the load yes, eventually.. but they won't stop roll..

Dam you guys..
Im torn...

Ask Matt whether he thinks you will need the adjusters. How many Adjusters he has sold? I bet its not many.

[BigRAWesty]

Fair call..
So Matt has suggested adjustable at least on the rear..

Also reading fox 2.0 only run a 15 mm (5/8) shaft where as the superior run a 20mm shaft..

[Clunk]

And dont forget to disuss it with your missus or you'll be paying for more that a vacuum cleaner

[BigRAWesty]

And dont forget to disuss it with your missus or you'll be paying for more that a vacuum cleaner
Bahahaha..
Yes I have been in full discussion and full disclosure of details..
But it won't matter when it arrives..

[MudRunnerTD]

There seems to be a fair bit going for the Superior Shocks Kallen. Do what makes sense to you mate. The Fox are awesome. The Superior seem to tick a heap of boxes in their class though.

[BigRAWesty]

There seems to be a fair bit going for the Superior Shocks Kallen. Do what makes sense to you mate. The Fox are awesome. The Superior seem to tick a heap of boxes in their class though.
They do.. and I think that's what I'm looking at..
Sure fox may be race level..
But superior can't be far behind and offer a lot more for the $$$$..
Sure adjustable might be a waste on the front, but it will be tops on the rear. But to fork out another $300 taking them to $2100 ish compared to $1450......

[nissannewby]

There seems to be a fair bit going for the Superior Shocks Kallen. Do what makes sense to you mate. The Fox are awesome. The Superior seem to tick a heap of boxes in their class though.

The only issue I see with the superior ones is the history. They have done shocks before and then stopped and the support fell away with it. Fox have been around a long time in the shock game and won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

[MudRunnerTD]

They do.. and I think that's what I'm looking at..
Sure fox may be race level..
But superior can't be far behind and offer a lot more for the $$$$..
Sure adjustable might be a waste on the front, but it will be tops on the rear. But to fork out another $300 taking them to $2100 ish compared to $1450......

It really puts them where they probably should be though based on price point. If Fox thought their shocks or their clients needed 20mm shafts then they would have 20mm shafts.



The only issue I see with the superior ones is the history. They have done shocks before and then stopped and the support fell away with it. Fox have been around a long time in the shock game and won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

Yeah I certainly am still with you on this Matt. I remember fitting 12 Stage adjustable Boss Shocks on the GQ in the original ground up rebuild. They looked the goods, Suspension a Stuff raved about them. They were The Bomb!! They Were Rubbish! Lasted 1 year. In the bin.

I'd still go the Fox. But it's not my money or my car. I understand what your thinking Kallen. Tick the boxes. Be happy at the end. You don't want to second guess for the next 5 years.

[BigRAWesty]

It's weird because fox do a 20mm shaft (technically 7/8) shaft is the 2.0 race shocks..

I have time to think now..
As mentioned my shed / suspension account has copped a flogging over the last month or so, so letting it build back up again before I drop the coin..

[MudRunnerTD]

It's weird because fox do a 20mm shaft (technically 7/8) shaft is the 2.0 race shocks..

I have time to think now..
As mentioned my shed / suspension account has copped a flogging over the last month or so, so letting it build back up again before I drop the coin..

Thats 22mm. ;)

[nissannewby]

Save some more coin and get a set of these.

[BigRAWesty]

Save some more coin and get a set of these.
Yea they look good..
And are what I would be getting.
Remote res and adjustable rears..

[nissannewby]

Yea they look good..
And are what I would be getting.
Remote res and adjustable rears..

They are 2.5 bolt ins with high and low speed adjustment. 7/8 shaft etc etc

[BigRAWesty]

They are 2.5 bolt ins with high and low speed adjustment
Ow.. lol..
Now if I had $5000 yea sure......

[nissannewby]

I think they are around 2500-3000 lol.

[BigRAWesty]

I think they are around 2500-3000 lol.
Really.. wow that's how you dominate a market..
That price will wipe out the 2.0 shocks..
But is the USD?

[nissannewby]

Im not sure. Give downsouth motorsports a call monday and ask. I may have my figures confused but they list them at around the 800ea mark on their website for generic ones.

[nissannewby]

Really.. wow that's how you dominate a market..
That price will wipe out the 2.0 shocks..
But is the USD?

Did you end up calling for a price?

[BigRAWesty]

Did you end up calling for a price?
I didn't mate. At tafe this week so flat out

[BigRAWesty]

Did you end up calling for a price?
$3500 a set without adjusters
$4500 with.

Yea that's a bit outta reach

[BigRAWesty]

Ok so after a lot of humming and Haring the choice was made and have enlisted MudRunnerTD mate Matt from Pro Deisel to sort me a set of fox shocks and king springs..

Will also be fitting his remote res cradles in the front.
Aswell as kevlar bags in the rear and 80 series style bumps all round..

Now just working out how much I need to lift the front spring tower by so I don't loose up travel with extended bumps..

Matt has done some testing on both the factory bumps and the progressive bumps..
The nissan bumps squished to 65mm at 10T and the progressive bumps squished to 30mm..

So if you can understand the following fell free to comment on my thoughts. .

Stock ride hight in the gu is 60mm and if the bump compresses 65mm that makes a max of 125 travel up..
Stock shock closed length is 320, so deduct the up travel this leaves about 200 of the shock free..

Now the 2" lift, 8" shocks and bumps..
Progressive bump closed is 30mm,
New ride height is 110.
The 8" shock is 380 closed..
So with 140mm of up travel this leaves 240 of free shock, compared to the 200 stock..

So if I'm on the right path I'll need to lift front towers 40mm..

[nissannewby]

I would nearly leave it. Or maybe go 20mm. Better to use mechanical stops than to bottom the shock out. You probably wont get to full bump anyway due to coil bind/compression.

[BigRAWesty]

I would nearly leave it. Or maybe go 20mm. Better to use mechanical stops than to bottom the shock out. You probably wont get to full bump anyway due to coil bind/compression.
I was wondering that..
I'll go a 20mm spacer under the shock mount. Split it..
Your right though I have no idea how many coils there are or thickness so coils may bind before then..
And yes the bump to be squished to 30mm required 10T.. that's a lot of force..

[Ben-e-boy]

Dont get so hung up on bump stop measurements straight away. Get the springs in, get it to new ride height and then get measurements. Shock mount measurements at ride height are a good start. That'll kinda pave the way for the rest of the setup to fall into place. It's then easily compared with shock collapsed and extended length and desired up/down travel. ( if I am setting up a tourer I would set 50/50 bump droop IMO only), that'll give you an indication of where your bumps need to be. If you really want to get into it, factor in spring block height (#of coils x wire diameter).

Also always have a bit of shock shaft showing at full bump. Mine's about 15mm

[BigRAWesty]

Dont get so hung up on bump stop measurements straight away. Get the springs in, get it to new ride height and then get measurements. Shock mount measurements at ride height are a good start. That'll kinda pave the way for the rest of the setup to fall into place. It's then easily compared with shock collapsed and extended length and desired up/down travel. ( if I am setting up a tourer I would set 50/50 bump droop IMO only), that'll give you an indication of where your bumps need to be. If you really want to get into it, factor in spring block height (#of coils x wire diameter).

Also always have a bit of shock shaft showing at full bump. Mine's about 15mm
I will be looking at coil block as i am only working with a 2" lift.
I may have to extend the bumps instead of the shock mount due to this alone. .

[Ben-e-boy]

I will be looking at coil block as i am only working with a 2" lift.
I may have to extend the bumps instead of the shock mount due to this alone. .

Again I wouldnt get to hung up on that either, your not building it from scratch. It is just something else to look into for the sake of thinking about it as learning process. If it does become an issue, you've possibly chosen the wrong springs.

[BigRAWesty]

Again I wouldnt get to hung up on that either, your not building it from scratch. It is just something else to look into for the sake of thinking about it as learning process. If it does become an issue, you've possibly chosen the wrong springs.
Do you think the 8" travel shock is classed as a 3" lift shock?

[Ben-e-boy]

Ummm..... I dunno, I've never bought shocks for x lift, just for desired amount of travel. Maybe check superior's website. They may still list open and closed lengths for the Amada's as well as x amount of lift

[BigRAWesty]

Superior 3" remote res shock.
550 open -327 closed

Fox 8" shock
595 ooen -380 closed

Well superior 3" shock is shorter lol..
Ok I'm sorted..

[Ben-e-boy]

Superior 3" remote res shock.
550 open -327 closed

Fox 8" shock
595 ooen -380 closed

Well superior 3" shock is shorter lol..
Ok I'm sorted..

It has slightly more travel though. But yeah you would call them 3 in lift shocks

[BigRAWesty]

It has slightly more travel though. But yeah you would call them 3 in lift shocks
8mm more travel lol..

But yea it's weird the closed lengths are much shorter in the superior..
Imo no bump extension would be needed for the superior shock..

Unfortunately the next shock up in fox is 10" travel.
670 open - 425 closed. So far to long for the 2" coils

[Baby Daddy]

Hi guys to be quite frank, i have absolutley no idea about solid axle suspension., coming from an ifs i now have a 92 4.2petrol troll and wanna do it up right from the get go.

So before i go further i wanna say,
- i dont know the terminology ie suspension components
- i don't know what each ones does.
-i domt mind if its semi illegal as long as its easy to make the switch to get it back to normal.

Objective: to attain a height where i can clear 35s on my gq but dont want it stupidly high.

I recently saw a video of a few guys who had set there rigs up to tackle coffs coast and they said the key was to maintain a low centre of gravity whilst attaining maximum flex and articulation.

I guess this here is my goal.

So
I just want somebody to help in a way that has done what im after already as i dont want it driving like a pig too.

If anybody can point me out in the right direction by advising from experience what kit i should get to suit 3 inch max height that would be great.

Please outline it in a way where you state it like this ie
3 inch lift you need
- this size springs (dont worry bout weight yet ill work that out accordingly)

-this size shock
-radius arms drop boxes pan hard etc

Anyway
If someone could help me that would be great.

Ps i tried reading up on it all but its easier to understand what you'retalking about when you already know what the components are amd what they do.
Apologies and thanks in advance

[BigRAWesty]

Hi guys to be quite frank, i have absolutley no idea about solid axle suspension., coming from an ifs i now have a 92 4.2petrol troll and wanna do it up right from the get go.

So before i go further i wanna say,
- i dont know the terminology ie suspension components
- i don't know what each ones does.
-i domt mind if its semi illegal as long as its easy to make the switch to get it back to normal.

Objective: to attain a height where i can clear 35s on my gq but dont want it stupidly high.

I recently saw a video of a few guys who had set there rigs up to tackle coffs coast and they said the key was to maintain a low centre of gravity whilst attaining maximum flex and articulation.

I guess this here is my goal.

So
I just want somebody to help in a way that has done what im after already as i dont want it driving like a pig too.

If anybody can point me out in the right direction by advising from experience what kit i should get to suit 3 inch max height that would be great.

Please outline it in a way where you state it like this ie
3 inch lift you need
- this size springs (dont worry bout weight yet ill work that out accordingly)

-this size shock
-radius arms drop boxes pan hard etc

Anyway
If someone could help me that would be great.

Ps i tried reading up on it all but its easier to understand what you'retalking about when you already know what the components are amd what they do.
Apologies and thanks in advance

Welcome mate..
Well the easiest way is to simply buy a kit..
A 3" will get you 35's under the gq but it may scrub on full flex.
Imo to keep things cheap go a drop box setup.. it keeps everything at stock angles. But imo the best option is an engineered arm.. looks stock and you get good articulations.

If you want to keep the car low the best way to fit 35's under a gq with a 2" lift is to gaurd chop..

I've bought a 2" lift. In SA it's the max we can go.
Have gone a 3" shock though so it'll have good flex and still a legal height..

[1MadEngineer]

Fox 8" shock
595 ooen -380 closed



wow, 15mm more travel than a OE factory shock. (296/496mm)

[MEGOMONSTER]

This should be in the hunters thread. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/09/87.jpg
Who doesn't like going piggin

[BigRAWesty]

wow, 15mm more travel than a OE factory shock. (296/496mm)
Huh??????????

[nissannewby]

Huh??????????

The 8" shock lengths you quoted only have 15mm more travel than a standard shock.

[BigRAWesty]

The 8" shock lengths you quoted only have 15mm more travel than a standard shock.
Surly not..
I hope not lol

[nissannewby]

By the numbers above thats all it is.

Standard has 200mm of travel
Fox has 215mm
Superior has 223mm.

8" is only 200mm.

[nissannewby]

Superior 3" remote res shock.
550 open -327 closed

Fox 8" shock
595 ooen -380 closed

Well superior 3" shock is shorter lol..
Ok I'm sorted..

The superior is much closer to stock closed length. Meaning very little or no bump mods. The fox may require them to be extended a little.

[BigRAWesty]

I think there are a few different sizes between models
Just found one saying 320-520.
Still 200mm.
Bloody hell..
Maybe should have gone 10" fronts lol..
Na would have needed the tower near the bonnet to run that length..

[rainsey]

This should be in the hunters thread. http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/09/87.jpg
Who doesn't like going piggin

Surely your not telling me they are actually measuring your suspension??


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[MudRunnerTD]

Pics of how Police measure lift in Vic. This guy was holding a Current Road Worthy Certificate that he showed these 2 officers! He got a Canary anyway!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/05/274.jpg

Drop arms or drop boxes make no difference here. Done is Done!

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/05/275.jpg

Yes officer Done is Done! Maths is Maths too. :(


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Surely your not telling me they are actually measuring your suspension??


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Yes they really were!! The car in the pic had an In Date RWC but they ignored it and done him anyway.

[nissannewby]

Surely your not telling me they are actually measuring your suspension??


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Thats not megomonsters car. If it was mego's patrol he could have bribed them with his seats.

[sooty_10]

Instead of starting a new thread I thought I'd post here. I currently have suspension stuff flexy 3 inch coils (green same as dobinsons?). The rear ones I have are 19mm diameter and I believe may be HD? I also have some 21mm (Xtra HD?) rears in the shed. First question is what diameter coils and load rating (Medium/Heavy etc) do other folks have as I feel mine may be a bit stiff and I am not 100% sure on what mine is actually running.

Today I weighed my patrol front and rear w/ about half a main tank and empty sub. Front 1480kg Rear 1460kg. I am definitely looking at gettimg some new shocks all round and may get more suitable coils. Tossing up spending big (fox 2.0 remote res from pro-diesel MudRunnerTD sorted that vendor and forum discount yet 😉 ) vs something off the shelf like ironman foamcell pro or other alternatives.

Will give pro diesel a call but he is away/closed according to his faceache page till next week.
bigguwesty how'd you go mate all sorted yet?

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[MudRunnerTD]

Instead of starting a new thread I thought I'd post here. I currently have suspension stuff flexy 3 inch coils (green same as dobinsons?). The rear ones I have are 19mm diameter and I believe may be HD? I also have some 21mm (Xtra HD?) rears in the shed. First question is what diameter coils and load rating (Medium/Heavy etc) do other folks have as I feel mine may be a bit stiff and I am not 100% sure on what mine is actually running.

Today I weighed my patrol front and rear w/ about half a main tank and empty sub. Front 1480kg Rear 1460kg. I am definitely looking at gettimg some new shocks all round and may get more suitable coils. Tossing up spending big (fox 2.0 remote res from pro-diesel MudRunnerTD sorted that vendor and forum discount yet 😉 ) vs something off the shelf like ironman foamcell pro or other alternatives.

Will give pro diesel a call but he is away/closed according to his faceache page till next week.
bigguwesty how'd you go mate all sorted yet?

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Hi Sooty, Yeah Matt is on Holidays with his new baby but will be back next week. West got his gear last week and is stoked but not fitted yet i don't think.

Check you r springs for a printed number on them and give Suspensions stuff a call and ask what they are. they might know on the diameters you quote.

Did you do a combined weighing too? Whole car?

IMO The Fox remote Res are several leagues above anything Ironman may have on the market, if you can afford the Fox then its a No Brainer. Your question should be Fox or....Profender, ICONS, Kings etc.

I have not really pushed Matt into becoming a Vendor but intend too. He is good mates with Light Vendor and i can imagine Light giving us anything but a Thumbs Up! I will start working on him.

[BigRAWesty]

Instead of starting a new thread I thought I'd post here. I currently have suspension stuff flexy 3 inch coils (green same as dobinsons?). The rear ones I have are 19mm diameter and I believe may be HD? I also have some 21mm (Xtra HD?) rears in the shed. First question is what diameter coils and load rating (Medium/Heavy etc) do other folks have as I feel mine may be a bit stiff and I am not 100% sure on what mine is actually running.

Today I weighed my patrol front and rear w/ about half a main tank and empty sub. Front 1480kg Rear 1460kg. I am definitely looking at gettimg some new shocks all round and may get more suitable coils. Tossing up spending big (fox 2.0 remote res from pro-diesel MudRunnerTD sorted that vendor and forum discount yet 😉 ) vs something off the shelf like ironman foamcell pro or other alternatives.

Will give pro diesel a call but he is away/closed according to his faceache page till next week.
bigguwesty how'd you go mate all sorted yet?

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I can measure the coils I have at home but from what you've said I think mine are around the same size..
Your a smidgen heavier on the front and 100kg heavier on the rear compared to my gu..

Still waiting on a couple more bits.

Imo don't wait for the vendor stuff..
Matt gave me a great deal. Didn't move much on the shocks but basically did the coils for cost and also added discount to things like shock gaurd and resivour mounting plates..

So Imo I've been looked after even without Matt being a vendor..

[sooty_10]

Check you r springs for a printed number on them and give Suspensions stuff a call and ask what they are. they might know on the diameters you quote.

Did you do a combined weighing too? Whole car?

IMO The Fox remote Res are several leagues above anything Ironman may have on the market, if you can afford the Fox then its a No Brainer. Your question should be Fox or....Profender, ICONS, Kings etc.

Whole car weight is 2940kg, actually weighed total. Which works out as front + rear is that normal?

The springs did have sticker tags etc on them but are either gone or unreadable. I will make a few phone calls as suggested.

Yeah like bigguwesty I have been considering the higher $$ rem res stuff but pretty much for the dollar if I'm going to spend that I'd rather get something tailored and have local support eg. at least in Vic, so your mate Matt ticks that.

I also then think I'm going over the top and should just get an off the shelf basic shock setup. Haha first world problems.

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[MudRunnerTD]

If your a patrol is a keeper then buy once and but th best you can afford.

[BigRAWesty]

Whole car weight is 2940kg, actually weighed total. Which works out as front + rear is that normal?

The springs did have sticker tags etc on them but are either gone or unreadable. I will make a few phone calls as suggested.

Yeah like bigguwesty I have been considering the higher $$ rem res stuff but pretty much for the dollar if I'm going to spend that I'd rather get something tailored and have local support eg. at least in Vic, so your mate Matt ticks that.

I also then think I'm going over the top and should just get an off the shelf basic shock setup. Haha first world problems.

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You are correct with your weight..
Mine was spot on 2800..
So the extra 40 and 100 yours has makes it 2940kg.

I was really leaning towards the superior gear as you may have read earlier but there was a couple of points that made me go that next step..

Superior don't tune shocks in house. You have to chase up a branch that does it.
From memory it was "The 4wd Shed" in Melbourne who tuned superior stuff.
But that's an extra cost.. figures of $400 were mentioned to re valve... So at $1200 from memory add the tune cost it's only a $100 more and you have fox shocks, valved to your car..

The big one was Matt mentioned how superior had done shocks before and then dropped em..
A bit of research turned up some very unhappy campers.. I think MR was one of em.. where as fox have always been around.

So I went that next step and got the Fox.
I should have all the parts by the long weekend but am going camping so it'll be the weekend after lol..

[BigRAWesty]

Had a quick chat to Matt this morning and no fox don't have adjusters on them..
That's an extra $600..
Both companies will set the shocks to suit my car in house before sending them out.
But that extra adjustability means a smoother ride over corrigations etc and the ability to firm em up when fully loaded..
Poly airs will take the load yes, eventually.. but they won't stop roll..

Dam you guys..
Im torn...
Just thought I'd inform that superior don't actually adjust shocks in house. They supply shock at a set rate. They have outlets who do re valve to suit your ride but of course it's extra coin..

[sooty_10]

If your a patrol is a keeper then buy once and but th best you can afford.
Selling the patrol would require selling my soul. Or at least upgrading patrols, so yeah she's a keeper.

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[BigRAWesty]

Instead of starting a new thread I thought I'd post here. I currently have suspension stuff flexy 3 inch coils (green same as dobinsons?). The rear ones I have are 19mm diameter and I believe may be HD? I also have some 21mm (Xtra HD?) rears in the shed. First question is what diameter coils and load rating (Medium/Heavy etc) do other folks have as I feel mine may be a bit stiff and I am not 100% sure on what mine is actually running.

Today I weighed my patrol front and rear w/ about half a main tank and empty sub. Front 1480kg Rear 1460kg.

Ok so some coil sizes for you..

The 3.5T setup first..
Only meassured the RHS due to time crush.
FR 3.5T
17 D rod, 405 long and 7 coils.

RR 3.5t
22 D rod, 485 long and 9 coils

Now the new setup..
FR 16 D rod, 405 L and only 6 coils..
RR 19 D rod, 510 long and only 7 coils..

So as you can see the 3.5 kits is built tough.. not for comfort!!!
I'm probably going to loose 30kg when I change em in coil weight lol..

[sooty_10]

Ok so some coil sizes for you..

The 3.5T setup first..
Only meassured the RHS due to time crush.
FR 3.5T
17 D rod, 405 long and 7 coils.

RR 3.5t
22 D rod, 485 long and 9 coils

Now the new setup..
FR 16 D rod, 405 L and only 6 coils..
RR 19 D rod, 510 long and only 7 coils..

So as you can see the 3.5 kits is built tough.. not for comfort!!!
I'm probably going to loose 30kg when I change em in coil weight lol..
Thanks for that mate.

I got out and measured up my springs and shocks etc.

My current setup is:
FL Spring
420mm with 19.3mm wire. 9 coils.

RR Spring
530mm with 19.3mm wire. 12 coils.

I'm tipping they are heavy heavy duty :(

My front suspension max travel (between shock mounts) is 585mm. This was with everything unbolted except the radius arm (no steering arms/shock/sways). I can see why guys run superflex arms. I undid the front radius bolt and the whole setup was able to drop heaps more - with 630mm until my spring became loose.

On compression to just touching bump it was 430mm with 80 series bumps. So from my reading I should take another 100mm for safety as a minimum with them.

Call it 330mm compressed shock length with no mods is that pretty standard?

So if I was to fit 10" fox (16.1" closed = 408.94mm call it 410mm) I would need 70-80mm worth of bump/tower mods. Considering doing a 40-50mm tower lift (what I can fit) as I like the idea of more up travel, with the rest on the bump?
10" fox has ~ 660mm extension, minus any tower lift ~ 610mm max extension from current shock mounts. I have 585mm max drop currently so that should fit nicely??

Rear maximum extension with swaybar connected is 695mm, no swaybar is 785mm. On compression I had 450mm between shock mounts on bump contact (factory bump), so take another 50mm, 400mm with bump compressed.

The 11" fox compressed is 435mm extended is 714mm. So for extension it would suit nicely with 40-50mm bump mods?

Haha lots of Q's in there, just trying to get my head around it all before I decide on spending serious cash.

Thanks
bigguwesty have you got your shocks/springs in yet?

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[BigRAWesty]

Thanks for that mate.

I got out and measured up my springs and shocks etc.

My current setup is:
FL Spring
420mm with 19.3mm wire. 9 coils.

RR Spring
530mm with 19.3mm wire. 12 coils.

I'm tipping they are heavy heavy duty :(

My front suspension max travel (between shock mounts) is 585mm. This was with everything unbolted except the radius arm (no steering arms/shock/sways). I can see why guys run superflex arms. I undid the front radius bolt and the whole setup was able to drop heaps more - with 630mm until my spring became loose.

On compression to just touching bump it was 430mm with 80 series bumps. So from my reading I should take another 100mm for safety as a minimum with them.

Call it 330mm compressed shock length with no mods is that pretty standard?

So if I was to fit 10" fox (16.1" closed = 408.94mm call it 410mm) I would need 70-80mm worth of bump/tower mods. Considering doing a 40-50mm tower lift (what I can fit) as I like the idea of more up travel, with the rest on the bump?
10" fox has ~ 660mm extension, minus any tower lift ~ 610mm max extension from current shock mounts. I have 585mm max drop currently so that should fit nicely??

Rear maximum extension with swaybar connected is 695mm, no swaybar is 785mm. On compression I had 450mm between shock mounts on bump contact (factory bump), so take another 50mm, 400mm with bump compressed.

The 11" fox compressed is 435mm extended is 714mm. So for extension it would suit nicely with 40-50mm bump mods?

Haha lots of Q's in there, just trying to get my head around it all before I decide on spending serious cash.

Thanks
bigguwesty have you got your shocks/springs in yet?

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What lift are you working off of?
My measurements are for a 2" lift.
I suspect your may be more..

I'm personally going to adjust up travel in mine as the front springs are very far apart and I doubt I'll have any coil bind issues with lifting the front shock mount 25 - 30mm.
Will just need to hole the wheel arch to get the top bolt threw..

As for rears well again I'm only going the 2" so I've simply gone the progressive bump stops.
Again they compress heaps so will have to work out if I need to extend or not..

With the rear it depends on how extreme you wish to go.
You could modify the top shock mounts and move them up and in to give you a greater shock length.. but that's a fair bit of work..

[sooty_10]

Also for those wondering I enquired with Matt (Prodiesel) about rebuild/servicing costs. New oil/gas and some basic seals is around $85 ea. Or with a tune $155 ea. Cheaper then buying new normal shocks.

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[sooty_10]

What lift are you working off of?
My measurements are for a 2" lift.
I suspect your may be more..

I'm personally going to adjust up travel in mine as the front springs are very far apart and I doubt I'll have any coil bind issues with lifting the front shock mount 25 - 30mm.
Will just need to hole the wheel arch to get the top bolt threw..

As for rears well again I'm only going the 2" so I've simply gone the progressive bump stops.
Again they compress heaps so will have to work out if I need to extend or not..

With the rear it depends on how extreme you wish to go.
You could modify the top shock mounts and move them up and in to give you a greater shock length.. but that's a fair bit of work..
Thanks mate. Overall spring lift height doesn't change the max/min shock mount points just where with the shocks stroke it is sitting at ride height? So how much up / down travel the shock has left? A shorter ride height will give a higher down travel ratio vs a higher lift with more potential for up travel within the shock?
Mine has a 3 inch lift but for all shock measurements springs were not involved.

Yeah i figured moving rear mounts was more trouble than I am going to go to. I will do like yourself and make a hole for the top of the spring tower.

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[BigRAWesty]

Thanks mate. Overall spring lift height doesn't change the max/min shock mount points just where with the shocks stroke it is sitting at ride height? So how much up / down travel the shock has left? A shorter ride height will give a higher down travel ratio vs a higher lift with more potential for up travel within the shock?
Mine has a 3 inch lift but for all shock measurements springs were not involved.

Yeah i figured moving rear mounts was more trouble than I am going to go to. I will do like yourself and make a hole for the top of the spring tower.

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Yea that's cool but yea the extra coil count for what you have is for the lift..
So the fronts are similar to mine but the rears maybe a bit lighter..

[sooty_10]

Yea that's cool but yea the extra coil count for what you have is for the lift..
So the fronts are similar to mine but the rears maybe a bit lighter..
Ahh yeah my spring measurements are for 3 inch. I forgot to actually measure the ride height between bumps to work out what it actually sits at.

Thats tonights job.

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[sooty_10]

Well I think I will be broke in a few weeks time.......but hopefully happier with my suspension.

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[Dhuck]

I am a little stupefied right know. But what are you looking for. If you are looking for max articulation, disconnect your shocks, measure the fully compressed and fully extended lengths of your travel before the spring becomes untrapped. This will give you the full length of travel the shock needs to be for your installed springs. (Full compressed diff on bump stop. Untrapped spring becoming loose in seat). No one needs their spring to fall out lol.

[BigRAWesty]

Righto just about finished my install..

So after a lot of stuffing around I finally have the setup I paid for..
2" springs with 8" and 10" travel shocks, 80 series bumps and airbags in the rear.
Initially I was sent 3" standard rate springs but was not happy with em at all..
Ass up like nobody's business!!!
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/12/150.jpg

So after getting 2" progressive rate standard springs and putting them in (much harder due to air bags being in) we have what we finally want..
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2016/12/151.jpg

So..
Love the setup. .
You still feel the bumps but they are much smoother..

Ok down fall..
Being such long shocks I have to raise the front towers 40mm to allow the shocks to compress without binding..
The rear is fine as the 80 series bumps are fitted and give the bump extension needed..
But 80 bumps compress more than the front factory bumps by about 30mm (65mm compressed).
The down fall with only running 2" lift is I only have 40mm between axle and bump lol..
So if I was to space the bump it would be touching the axle lol..
So up the tower goes..
Gunna do some engineering on this one..
Stay tuned..