Selling a car without RWC what are my obligations?

[MyGU8]

I am planning to sell my old Camry without RWC (Victoria).

Is there anything I need to be aware of?

Thanks

[Cuppa]

Cancel the rego if still registered & just remove the plates & provide the buyer with a receipt for payment which has the VIN number on it, so they have proof of ownership for when they go to register it.

[Bush Ranger]

You reminded me of some thing I heard about a few years back in WA, Cuppa. Apparently you need a transfer paper, even though the vehicle is unregistered. There was a reason behind it, some thing like proof of purchase and to help make sure the vehicle wasn`t stolen etc etc. No idea if it applies any where else in Australia.

[the evil twin]

You reminded me of some thing I heard about a few years back in WA, Cuppa. Apparently you need a transfer paper, even though the vehicle is unregistered. There was a reason behind it, some thing like proof of purchase and to help make sure the vehicle wasn`t stolen etc etc. No idea if it applies any where else in Australia.

In WA it gets complicated. generally if you want to transfer ownership rather than scrap/part out or wreck then the vehicle must be registered prior to the transfer.
If you want to sell it for parts or scrap or whatever then no problem

In Vic you don't need to do that, only a receipt etc showing details but make sure you have handed in teh plates etc.
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/buy-sell-or-transfer-a-vehicle/sell-a-vehicle/sell-an-unregistered-vehicle

[MyGU8]

After a bit of googling, the recommended process is to keep one plate and let the buyer know of the timelines (say 10 days) to produce a RWC for registration transfer, if not then I can go to VicRoads with the other number plate and cancel the rego.

Is one plate enough to cancel the rego?

Cheers,

[the evil twin]

After a bit of googling, the recommended process is to keep one plate and let the buyer know of the timelines (say 10 days) to produce a RWC for registration transfer, if not then I can go to VicRoads with the other number plate and cancel the rego.

Is one plate enough to cancel the rego?

Cheers,

Why would you want to do that... that is a HUGE risk to you and none to him
Just do it the way Cuppa and Vic Roads suggest, hand in the plates and sell it unregistered.
Selling on the presumption that he will get RWC, complete the transfer etc is fraught with danger.
The car is still registered to you if something goes pear shaped

[dom14]

Why would you want to do that... that is a HUGE risk to you and none to him
Just do it the way Cuppa and Vic Roads suggest, hand in the plates and sell it unregistered.
Selling on the presumption that he will get RWC, complete the transfer etc is fraught with danger.
The car is still registered to you if something goes pear shaped

Even if the car's registration is cancelled, it will still have your details at vicroads as the last registered owner.

[dom14]

Why would you want to do that... that is a HUGE risk to you and none to him
Just do it the way Cuppa and Vic Roads suggest, hand in the plates and sell it unregistered.
Selling on the presumption that he will get RWC, complete the transfer etc is fraught with danger.
The car is still registered to you if something goes pear shaped

What safety guarantee does it give you even if you sell the car with the RWC?
RWC is valid for good thirty days.
Buyer driving off your car(now his car) with the RWC and transfer papers can still keep it driving under your name for thirty days.
Lot can happen in thirty days, or at least the day the car was sold.
Only safety I can think of is to put the date and time of the sale on the transfer papers and a receipt and make sure the buyers signature and details are in those papers. If the buyer commit some criminal activity, etc with the car still registered under your name can still get you into trouble, but you can at least produce the paper to prove your innocence.
The best safeguard I can think of is to go to the Vicroads with the buyer and complete the transfer process there, which non of us paranoid enough to go through.
That is the only way I can think of guaranteeing the seller's safety, though it's a fair bit of an overkill.

[Winnie]

Why would you want to do that... that is a HUGE risk to you and none to him
Just do it the way Cuppa and Vic Roads suggest, hand in the plates and sell it unregistered.
Selling on the presumption that he will get RWC, complete the transfer etc is fraught with danger.
The car is still registered to you if something goes pear shaped
I sold a car with no RWC and it still had registration. The buyer filled out and signed the transfer forms. He said he would get it transferred asap and I didn't think about it again.
The next year I got the registration renewal in the mail. Took the transfer forms in and straight away they put it in his name and sent him the bill for the rego. They gave him something like 14 days to come up with a RWC too.

[Cuppa]

I sold a car with no RWC and it still had registration. The buyer filled out and signed the transfer forms. He said he would get it transferred asap and I didn't think about it again.
The next year I got the registration renewal in the mail. Took the transfer forms in and straight away they put it in his name and sent him the bill for the rego. They gave him something like 14 days to come up with a RWC too.


You were lucky. If during that time the buyer had scored any fines they could well have come to you & then you have the hassle of convincing the authorities (not VicRoads) that you were not responsible.

A number of years ago I drove our bus up to Melbourne & camped the night outside a factory ready to get a 6 metre awning fitted the following morning. Unknown to me, whilst I slept, some scumbag stole my rego plates. I managed to drive home to Gippsland none the wiser & parked the bus in the shed. First I knew of the plates having been stolen was when I received an infringement notice for parking somewhere I had never been. It was then I realised the plates were missing. I jumped through all the hoops & eventually after 2 or 3 months of letters back & forth the case was dropped. What really peed me off was that I was never told ‘found innocent’, only that I had been let off with a warning!

[Winnie]

You were lucky. If during that time the buyer had scored any fines they could well have come to you & then you have the hassle of convincing the authorities (not VicRoads) that you were not responsible.

A number of years ago I drove our bus up to Melbourne & camped the night outside a factory ready to get a 6 metre awning fitted the following morning. Unknown to me, whilst I slept, some scumbag stole my rego plates. I managed to drive home to Gippsland none the wiser & parked the bus in the shed. First I knew of the plates having been stolen was when I received an infringement notice for parking somewhere I had never been. It was then I realised the plates were missing. I jumped through all the hoops & eventually after 2 or 3 months of letters back & forth the case was dropped. What really peed me off was that I was never told ‘found innocent’, only that I had been let off with a warning!
If you have signed and dated transfer forms then it wouldn't be a problem at all. What I should have done though is take my copy of those forms to Vic roads straight away

[the evil twin]

Even if the car's registration is cancelled, it will still have your details at vicroads as the last registered owner.

So what?
Every car every parted out has a the 'last registered owner' on file.
There is a monumental legal difference between being the 'registered owner' who tried to sell a Car illegally and 'last registered owner'.

[AB]

If you have signed and dated transfer forms then it wouldn't be a problem at all. What I should have done though is take my copy of those forms to Vic roads straight away Yep that's what should be done.

In Vic anyway and take your slip into Vicroads and transfer ownership.

The buyer then at least has a chance to get a RWC in X days to show them to continue the rego going rather then the hassle of going into the pits for a new registration which you want to avoid at all cost!

For interstate vehicles the previous owner is refunded $$$ for the rego left as well.

[the evil twin]

I sold a car with no RWC and it still had registration. The buyer filled out and signed the transfer forms. He said he would get it transferred asap and I didn't think about it again.
The next year I got the registration renewal in the mail. Took the transfer forms in and straight away they put it in his name and sent him the bill for the rego. They gave him something like 14 days to come up with a RWC too.

If he drove the vehicle and if the vehicle had been involved in a tragic accident and was unroadworthy?

As the Seller, you are the person who has the responsibility to prove the roadworthiness at time of sale, not the purchaser.
If something like that ends up in Civil Court it gets very ugly very quick and I am sure 'old mate' is going to say it was you who said it was OK to drive.
If you sell it with no plates and no RWC then no problem (indeed you get some Rego money back)
If you sell it with plates and no RWC then there is a risk

Anyway, I still fail to see the point of trying to circumvent Vic Roads why not just hand the plates in and then every thing is in your favour.
Have a copy of a Bill of Sale and sleep well at night.

[Winnie]

If he drove the vehicle and if the vehicle had been involved in a tragic accident and was unroadworthy?

As the Seller, you are the person who has the responsibility to prove the roadworthiness at time of sale, not the purchaser.
If something like that ends up in Civil Court it gets very ugly very quick and I am sure 'old mate' is going to say it was you who said it was OK to drive.
If you sell it with no plates and no RWC then no problem (indeed you get some Rego money back)
If you sell it with plates and no RWC then there is a risk

Anyway, I still fail to see the point of trying to circumvent Vic Roads why not just hand the plates in and then every thing is in your favour.
Have a copy of a Bill of Sale and sleep well at night.
My reasoning was it is much harder to sell a car with no registration.

[the evil twin]

My reasoning was it is much harder to sell a car with no registration.

Agree, and it wasn't a problem... this time.
Just comes down to a risk management I s'pose.

I learnt fairly early in life that if something only goes pear shaped for 1 person in 1000 then that 1 person is me.
Ergo there is no way I would take the risk of some tool I never, ever met and probably won't ever meet again not actually being a tool.

In your case he was a tool 'cause he didn't actually do the RWC or Transfer Rego until forced to do so, even tho I bet he promised he would 'do it as soon as the Rego office is open' when he got the keys.

I would bet he would happily stand up in Court and say "Your Honour, Winnie said it was fine for me to drive and use the vehicle while he sorted out that RWC and finalised the deal. That is why I didn't put in the papers 'cause I didn't want him to get into trouble as I am a really nice bloke who would never do anything wrong".

[Winnie]

You're probably right. But there is a tick box on the form that says whether the car is being sold with a RWC or not.

[the evil twin]

You're probably right. But there is a tick box on the form that says whether the car is being sold with a RWC or not.

It is a generic form so that box is on there because some transfers are exempt from the RWC requirement...
Sale to your spouse, Sale to a Lic Dealer and Repos are the common ones plus a few other rare circumstances

[the evil twin]

What safety guarantee does it give you even if you sell the car with the RWC?
RWC is valid for good thirty days.
Buyer driving off your car(now his car) with the RWC and transfer papers can still keep it driving under your name for thirty days.
Lot can happen in thirty days, or at least the day the car was sold.
Only safety I can think of is to put the date and time of the sale on the transfer papers and a receipt and make sure the buyers signature and details are in those papers. If the buyer commit some criminal activity, etc with the car still registered under your name can still get you into trouble, but you can at least produce the paper to prove your innocence.
The best safeguard I can think of is to go to the Vicroads with the buyer and complete the transfer process there, which non of us paranoid enough to go through.
That is the only way I can think of guaranteeing the seller's safety, though it's a fair bit of an overkill.

Pffft... safety, smafety, in regards to OP question;
No rego and no RWC in a private sale means Purchaser is obligated
Rego and no RWC in a private sale means Vendor is obligated
Rego and RWC in a private sale means whoever issued the RWC is at risk and Vendor/Purchaser is not

[Cuppa]

If you have signed and dated transfer forms then it wouldn't be a problem at all. What I should have done though is take my copy of those forms to Vic roads straight away

Yes that is so as far as VicRoads is concerned, but less so as far as the police & Civic Compliance goes. The point I tried to make is that whilst you may be ok in the end, & possibly even enjoy a barney with the authorities, secure in the knowledge that you are in the right, there is every possibility that you will still have to jump through the hoops that that the bureacracy insists upon.

[Cuppa]

For interstate vehicles the previous owner is refunded $$$ for the rego left as well.

Depends on which state. As a Victorian I have bought two interstate vehicles, one from Queensland & one from the NT. The NT rego was refunded to me when I changed to Vic Rego, but the queensland rego could only be refunded to the previous owner who had originally paid it.

[dom14]

If you have signed and dated transfer forms then it wouldn't be a problem at all. What I should have done though is take my copy of those forms to Vic roads straight away

I would even go one step further and put the transaction time on the paper receipt as well.

[dom14]

but the queensland rego could only be refunded to the previous owner who had originally paid it.

Is it the same in Victoria?

[dom14]

So what?
Every car every parted out has a the 'last registered owner' on file.
There is a monumental legal difference between being the 'registered owner' who tried to sell a Car illegally and 'last registered owner'.

My point being, even if the registration is cancelled, as far as the police concerns you still are the owner of the car.
Like the scenario I mentioned above, the guy who bought the car from you(no RWC, no rego) can drive it down the road to rob a place at gun point, and then run away. When the cops find the car, they come to you to question.
Of course you can produce the "bill of sale" and explain it to them that you couldn't have been the robber.
But, they can still suspect you and give you hard time.

[dom14]

A number of years ago I drove our bus up to Melbourne & camped the night outside a factory ready to get a 6 metre awning fitted the following morning. Unknown to me, whilst I slept, some scumbag stole my rego plates. I managed to drive home to Gippsland none the wiser & parked the bus in the shed. First I knew of the plates having been stolen was when I received an infringement notice for parking somewhere I had never been. It was then I realised the plates were missing. I jumped through all the hoops & eventually after 2 or 3 months of letters back & forth the case was dropped. What really peed me off was that I was never told ‘found innocent’, only that I had been let off with a warning!

Same thing happened to me twice. First time it was used for driving on citilink, but who knows what else they might have done with it. I had to go to the local police station and file a report. I didn't hear anything about it after that. The second time, I didn't get any fines, but I still had to report it to the police like the first time.

Now, I use tamper proof bolts to fit the number plates. They are not as easy to undo.

[Cuppa]

I would even go one step further and put the transaction time on the paper receipt as well.

Plus 2 copies, both signed by both parties, one copy each.




Is it the same in Victoria?

Good question, I *think* that if the car is purchased legally with rego by someone from another state, they have purchased the balance of the rego, & can claim it back from VicRoads when they re-register it in their state, but I'm not 100% certain on that.
I've only sold interstate twice & both times I sold without rego. One was a motorcycle with expired rego I freighted to the buyer (Nisshead), & the other the bus which I drove to NSW, removed the plates on arrival & got the balance refunded from VicRoads.

[the evil twin]

My point being, even if the registration is cancelled, as far as the police concerns you still are the owner of the car.
Like the scenario I mentioned above, the guy who bought the car from you(no RWC, no rego) can drive it down the road to rob a place at gun point, and then run away. When the cops find the car, they come to you to question.
Of course you can produce the "bill of sale" and explain it to them that you couldn't have been the robber.
But, they can still suspect you and give you hard time.

Absolutely none of which has anything to do with a RWC when selling a registered car displaying plates...

In a sale to a Dealer...
Is it the seller or dealer obligated to obtain a RWC when selling a registered vehicle? Dealer!
Is the Dealer obligated to obtain a RWC when selling that vehicle on? Yes!

In a sale to a private buyer (other than those exempted under the Act)...
Is it the seller or buyer obligated to provide a RWC when selling a registered vehicle? Seller!
Is it the seller or buyer obligated to returning the plates if selling unregistered? Seller!

[dom14]

A
Is it the seller or buyer obligated to provide a RWC when selling a registered vehicle? Seller!


Is that a legal obligation?

Don't some sellers sell registered cars without RWC, while keeping the number plates with him until the buyer comes back with
the RWC(or vicroads transfer receipt) to get his plates back?

[taslucas]

Plus 2 copies, both signed by both parties, one copy each.





Good question, I *think* that if the car is purchased legally with rego by someone from another state, they have purchased the balance of the rego, & can claim it back from VicRoads when they re-register it in their state, but I'm not 100% certain on that.
I've only sold interstate twice & both times I sold without rego. One was a motorcycle with expired rego I freighted to the buyer (Nisshead), & the other the bus which I drove to NSW, removed the plates on arrival & got the balance refunded from VicRoads.
I bought a car from Vic last year and when I transferred the rego I got payed the remaining balance. Yay!.

(also, I bought it with no rwc.)

>>>tappin from tassie

[GeeYou8]

Back in 1982 I sold my VW to a guy I worked with in Melbourne (I was moving back to Perth), he said he would get RWC & paid me accordingly, he on sold it without transferring into his name, I received several parking infringements but was all cleared up with a stat. dec, advising when I sold it and who I sold it to.
Graham

[dom14]

I bought a car from Vic last year and when I transferred the rego I got payed the remaining balance. Yay!.

(also, I bought it with no rwc.)

>>>tappin from tassie

I'm assuming you bought the car without RWC, but with some rego left in it, yet decided not to get a rwc and register it.
You produced the transfer papers to Tassie equivalent of vicroads(without rwc) and they refunded you the remaining time or the rego. AFAIK, this is not possible in Victoria,as the vicroads require an rwc to transfer the vehicle from the seller to the buyer.

[taslucas]

We need to have the Tasmanian vehicle roadworthy certificate (pit pass) done before registering it here regardless of registration or rwc from another state.

>>>tappin from tassie

[the evil twin]

I like long walks on the Beach and the colour Orange... oh and Tassie Beer... and, and, and that chick that plays Sloan Sabbith on Newsroom, nom, nom, nom