H4 LED globes

[dom14]

Hey guys,
These H4 LED globes that are advertised on ebay says they are H4.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-H4-80W-6000K-Super-Bright-LED-White-Fog-Turn-Head-Car-Light-Lamp-Bulb-BU/252165687024?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3Db115bb2784844ead9c3 09aef1d2d8e6f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26 sd%3D311406585692

So how come they are not suitable for headlights? It says they are suitable for Signal, Turn, Brake, Parking, Tail, DRL and Fog lights.
But, no mention about headlights? But, they are H4, which is the standard for headlights, right? Not for Signal, Turn, Brake, Parking, Tail, DRL and Fog lights??!!

2000 lumen brightness sounds ok?!

What am I missing here?

Thanx.

[Brissieboy]

I suspect that it is due to the difference in the source of the light.
H4 headlights rely on a point source of the light from the small filament for the reflectors to work properly and the LED versions have a wide spread source of their light - being sourced from many individual LEDs over a relatively large area. The design of the reflector is critical in producing the beam.
I have played with some H11 LED bulbs and even though they produce a similar amount of light to incandescent bulbs, they do not produce a significant beam from the reflector housing.

[jay see]

What about these.

http://www.stedi.com.au/h4-led-head-light-conversion-kit-cree.html

[dom14]

What about these.

http://www.stedi.com.au/h4-led-head-light-conversion-kit-cree.html

Yeah, I've noticed them. Price kinda indicated they are probably not worth the trouble. It has a bulky bubble base and LED point of source appears to be quite the same as those el cheapo ebay ones I've posted in the OP.

What do you reckon?

[dom14]

I suspect that it is due to the difference in the source of the light.
H4 headlights rely on a point source of the light from the small filament for the reflectors to work properly and the LED versions have a wide spread source of their light - being sourced from many individual LEDs over a relatively large area. The design of the reflector is critical in producing the beam.
I have played with some H11 LED bulbs and even though they produce a similar amount of light to incandescent bulbs, they do not produce a significant beam from the reflector housing.

Yeah, I think I understand what you're saying. The incandescent globe filament has a concentrated single point of origin which can aid a lot with the focal point and hence directing the beam properly. The LED one doesn't seem to have the same advantage.

May be, in order to use these LED ones as headlights, we may be looking at the matching reflector as well???!!!

[threedogs]

H4 LED headlights will cost about $90 plus for a pair, My mate is happy with his.
Im not convinced the hi beam is all it should be, but a nice white light thats for sure.
They come with fans fitted to cool the led drivers.

[dom14]

H4 LED headlights will cost about $90 plus for a pair, My mate is happy with his.
Im not convinced the hi beam is all it should be, but a nice white light thats for sure.
They come with fans fitted to cool the led drivers.

So, LED globes without fans will fail?

[threedogs]

No worth fitting if you do any night driving plus I dont think they are ADR approved

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CAR-LED-HEADLIGHT-KIT-H4-80W-8000LM-6000K-VEHICLE-REPLACE-HALOGEN-XENON-BULB-SR-/181995921311?hash=item2a5fcd5f9f:g:VpsAAOSw5dNWnY--

Not my cup of tea TBH

[dom14]

No worth fitting if you do any night driving plus I dont think they are ADR approved

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CAR-LED-HEADLIGHT-KIT-H4-80W-8000LM-6000K-VEHICLE-REPLACE-HALOGEN-XENON-BULB-SR-/181995921311?hash=item2a5fcd5f9f:g:VpsAAOSw5dNWnY--

Not my cup of tea TBH

I'm guessing Ebay el cheapo LED H4 globes as in the OP is advertised without the mention of "headlights", 'cos they are not legal in Australia?!

[threedogs]

the OP led are just smd led no drivers to give better brightness, the proper ones are about $90 plus , Stropp
runs a set , not sure about Mudski he has the led driving lghts

[ToddD42]

I suspect that it is due to the difference in the source of the light.
H4 headlights rely on a point source of the light from the small filament for the reflectors to work properly and the LED versions have a wide spread source of their light - being sourced from many individual LEDs over a relatively large area. The design of the reflector is critical in producing the beam.
I have played with some H11 LED bulbs and even though they produce a similar amount of light to incandescent bulbs, they do not produce a significant beam from the reflector housing.

So you can still fit H4 LEDs to factory reflector housing?? or do adjustments need to be made??
Also do you happen to know what Wattage and Volts the factor headlights use??
Cheers

[dom14]

So you can still fit H4 LEDs to factory reflector housing?? or do adjustments need to be made??
Also do you happen to know what Wattage and Volts the factor headlights use??
Cheers

I think he was saying not to bother with them.
With the price tag of around $90, they can end up producing less effective beam due the the point of origin of the light source is spread in LED globs. I'm sure they are improving, but we need to ask about the benefit of having them. Power consumption is the benefit I see atm, but apparently not worth it, considering the price & effectiveness.

[ToddD42]

I think he was saying not to bother with them.
With the price tag of around $90, they can end up producing less effective beam due the the point of origin of the light source is spread in LED globs. I'm sure they are improving, but we need to ask about the benefit of having them. Power consumption is the benefit I see atm, but apparently not worth it, considering the price & effectiveness.

Okie doks, so really not worth it it seems when it comes to price/efficacy as you were saying. Guess i'll be looking at another option!

Thanks for your help dom14, appreciate it!

[dom14]

Okie doks, so really not worth it it seems when it comes to price/efficacy as you were saying. Guess i'll be looking at another option!

Thanks for your help dom14, appreciate it!

Don't take my word on that mate.
I'm not expert on this. I initially liked the idea of LED head lights 'cos I'm bit interested in the idea of power saving & also these LEDs are pretty bright, which can help with getting good penetration.
I'm sure they are ok(the $90 ones). But, bit too bulky IMO, 'cos of they have to have a built in fan unit at the back of the globe to cool it. And that bit sticks out of the back of the head lamp, which can be an issue(in my case, it will be 'cos there's not much room behind the head lamp).

Instead of using LED for head lamps, I prefer the idea of using them on driving lights now.

Cheers
Dom

[BillsGU]

I looked into this some months ago and at the time there were no aftermarket ADR approved LED head lights available in Australia. With all the 4WDs being pulled over and checked of late, (especially if you are towing a large off road caravan) I wanted to make sure I am fully legal so I have gone to a upgraded H4 ADR approved globe (non LED).

Just my two bobs worth.

[Kimbo63]

Good little read here on the different types of headlights
http://www.caradvice.com.au/278125/headlights-explained-halogen-v-hid-v-led-v-laser/

[BillsGU]

Good little read here on the different types of headlights
http://www.caradvice.com.au/278125/headlights-explained-halogen-v-hid-v-led-v-laser/

Yep - exactly the issues I came up against some time ago. I converted my lights to HID (a lot of mucking around as you have to put your headlights in an oven to be able to separate the glass from the backing) and then drill holes in the reflector and install the projector inside the light, rewire the whole thing, find somewhere to mount the inverters and the control unit, etc. The result was a bit more light - but an unroadworthy Patrol. When one of the projectors fell apart due to off road work I dithched the entire expensive mess and went back to new headlights with legal upgraded globes.

[dom14]

Yep - exactly the issues I came up against some time ago. I converted my lights to HID (a lot of mucking around as you have to put your headlights in an oven to be able to separate the glass from the backing) and then drill holes in the reflector and install the projector inside the light, rewire the whole thing, find somewhere to mount the inverters and the control unit, etc. The result was a bit more light - but an unroadworthy Patrol. When one of the projectors fell apart due to off road work I dithched the entire expensive mess and went back to new headlights with legal upgraded globes.

Yep.
I just bought aftermarket unsealed lenses to replace the factory sealed lenses(with globes).
You can use 100w globes to improve the brightness, as oppose to 60w standard h4 globe, but may need to wire up a
relay to be able to handle the extra current.
For extra light on long country stretches, you can simply install drive lights and wire them up with the high beam with a relay.
I upgraded to factory 60w alternator to a 110w one, using an EF Falcon alternator to handle the extra current(if necessary).
All in all, it's been a cheap upgrade with good results.

[UncleFrosty]

You can use 100w globes to improve the brightness, as oppose to 60w standard h4 globe, but may need to wire up a
relay to be able to handle the extra current.

On the money there dom14. Previous owner of mine put in 100+/55s, which turned the H4 plug to charcoal and the wiring into tortured red melted messes. He must've bumped up the fuse too. Not sure how close I came to car fire... Back to standard draw high outputs now.

[dom14]

On the money there dom14. Previous owner of mine put in 100+/55s, which turned the H4 plug to charcoal and the wiring into tortured red melted messes. He must've bumped up the fuse too. Not sure how close I came to car fire... Back to standard draw high outputs now.

Yeah, factory GQ head lights aren't relayed afaik. Any upgrades need to be relayed or trouble's on it's way.

[dom14]

On the money there dom14. Previous owner of mine put in 100+/55s, which turned the H4 plug to charcoal and the wiring into tortured red melted messes. He must've bumped up the fuse too. Not sure how close I came to car fire... Back to standard draw high outputs now.

Are these 100/90 ones mate?
It's not clearly stated in the ad. Says 100W/12V, but apparently H4 with two filaments for hi/lo.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/100W-H4-Super-White-Headlight-Xenon-Halogen-Globes-Car-Light-Lamp/162129074983?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%2 6asc%3D39923%26meid%3D89c4846196524566bbf56fbfe4b1 a34a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D2014 60711205

[dom14]

Good little read here on the different types of headlights
http://www.caradvice.com.au/278125/headlights-explained-halogen-v-hid-v-led-v-laser/

Good read mate. Thanx.

[Kimbo63]

Good read mate. Thanx.
on that note according to the guy here in wa from the licence inspection centre he told me that the round 7" sealed beam hi/lo led lights were legal so for GQ owners that might be aus wide not sure so check with your local licence centre

[nissannewby]

on that note according to the guy here in wa from the licence inspection centre he told me that the round 7" sealed beam hi/lo led lights were legal so for GQ owners that might be aus wide not sure so check with your local licence centre

Yes kind of. The JW speaker brand LED 7" Hi/Lo headlights are adr approved but I think are still illegal in most states. There are plenty of things that are adr approved on their own but when fitted to a vehicle it makes it illegal.

[dom14]

on that note according to the guy here in wa from the licence inspection centre he told me that the round 7" sealed beam hi/lo led lights were legal so for GQ owners that might be aus wide not sure so check with your local licence centre

Yeah, they all have different laws in different states.
I think I'll play safe by sticking with traditional halogen globes. :D

[dom14]

This looks like a pretty good deal to experiment with. Loom upgrade is a definite need for this.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/H4-Halogen-Globes-Bulbs-Headlight-Light-130W-90W-Standard-Yellow-Warm-White-2PCS-/262077713592?hash=item3d050c8cb8:g:2aQAAOSwKrxUaXi 4

[garett]

just because it draws more current doesn't mean it actually brighter. and if you have plastic reflectors high wattage globes even with a loom upgrade will melt the actual reflector.

[ToddD42]

Yes kind of. The JW speaker brand LED 7" Hi/Lo headlights are adr approved but I think are still illegal in most states. There are plenty of things that are adr approved on their own but when fitted to a vehicle it makes it illegal.

They come with a loom don't they? So can they pretty much go straight in? Misso bought me a pair of JW speaker and was gunna return them but still in 2 minds whether to give them a go...
I think its pretty stupid that things can be adr approved but when fitted makes it illegal. Where else are those products going to be used??

[dom14]

just because it draws more current doesn't mean it actually brighter. and if you have plastic reflectors high wattage globes even with a loom upgrade will melt the actual reflector.

Yeah, the thought has crossed my mind.
If it converts all the extra current it draws into heat, it's not any brighter than 60W globe, of course.
I was hoping the claim of 6000k brightness is real.

I'm wondering whether anyone's tried these higher wattage globes in their conventional lenses, successfully(without cooking the lens)??!!!

[garett]

i'm running the blue plus 90 http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/performance-globes

[UncleFrosty]

Hi dom14.
Can't remember the wattage. May have been the one you quoted, but low beam was atrocious, so was probably xxx/55.
On the 6000k "brightness" - lumens are your measure, not Kelvin. K is the theoretical colour of light produced by a matt black (insert substance that I've forgotten here) at that temp. More a measure of colour than brightness.
FWIW - I've changed our non-patrol back from the Philips 5000Ks i put in as they were actually worse for brightness than the Narva Plus120s in there now, which are much further down the colour-temp scale, but must be higher lumens. I have the benefit of H4s - not sure what's available with sealed beams.

[Throbbinhood]

I use these which work really well, I'm very happy with them. Still using the stock loom, apparently will get better output if I upgrade but it's good enough for me.

https://www.powerbulbs.com/au/product/philips-xtreme-vision-130-h7-twin

[dom14]

I use these which work really well, I'm very happy with them. Still using the stock loom, apparently will get better output if I upgrade but it's good enough for me.

https://www.powerbulbs.com/au/product/philips-xtreme-vision-130-h7-twin

By stock loom, did you mean the factory loom without relays?!
Can it actually handle amps that high?
Where did you get the lenses from? 'Cos the stock headlamps are sealed ones.
I'm guessing they are high temp resistant?

You can do the conversion by buying the raw material from Jcar electronics. The conduit, relay, higher amp wires & connectors shouldn't cost much. We only have to wire it up between the battery & headlamps, don't we?
I reckon it can be done fairly quickly if we have the raw material ready.
I already have all the bits and pieces in a box, except globes. :) (I'm waiting for them to arrive).
Of course, a better, high temp resistance lens make a real difference I think.
I'm bit concerned whether the higher wattage globes will cook the lenses.
I'm starting with 100w ones, and see how it goes.

[dom14]

i'm running the blue plus 90 http://www.narva.com.au/products/browse/performance-globes

Yeah, but those are 24v ones. Good for 24v diesel Patrols.

[garett]

Yeah, but those are 24v ones. Good for 24v diesel Patrols.

nah they are older version in 12V 55/60w h4's did a h4 conversion on the mav. used narva reflectors, looked at some nice adr approved led 7 inch rounds but at 500 bucks a pop....
i make all my lighting looms myself from relays and wire. its pretty easy,

[Throbbinhood]

By stock loom, did you mean the factory loom without relays?!
.

Yeah factory loom, seems to be handling it fine. They draw the same amp's as normal globes.

For the reflectors, i got mine from qikazz 4x4 and camping. They were cheap, look good and work well.

[dom14]

Yeah factory loom, seems to be handling it fine. They draw the same amp's as normal globes.

For the reflectors, i got mine from qikazz 4x4 and camping. They were cheap, look good and work well.

Ok, cool. I've been warned about factory loom getting cooked & the switch as well. That's why I've been avoiding globes any brighter on the factory setting.
I would say wire up a new loom & relay when you get a chance. It's good insurance if you're planning to go on longer trips.
Cheers

[GeeYou8]

I had an ex NT government GQ many years ago, when it blew a bulb I found it had 90/140w bulbs, sealed beams had been replaced with H4 reflectors & upgraded loom with 1 relay for low beam & 2x for high beam. They were illegal I know, but when you dipped your lights you could still see. I also found that if you used the high beams of rough roads or off road the bulbs would blow, the filaments must be more fragile, I drove home one night with one low beam & no high beam.
Graham

[dom14]

I had an ex NT government GQ many years ago, when it blew a bulb I found it had 90/140w bulbs, sealed beams had been replaced with H4 reflectors & upgraded loom with 1 relay for low beam & 2x for high beam. They were illegal I know, but when you dipped your lights you could still see. I also found that if you used the high beams of rough roads or off road the bulbs would blow, the filaments must be more fragile, I drove home one night with one low beam & no high beam.
Graham

Yeah, I carry normal 60W spares all the time in the car.
I'm putting in 100W ones with a new loom.
Do you need to have three relays? Probably a better insurance on high amps?

Why are they illegal(90/140w)??!! If you adjust the low/high beam direction according to the brightness of the globes, it should be ok with the law, you reckon?!!