Unusually high EGTs after a full engine rebuild?

[SiberianPatrol]

Just had my RD28Ti (1999 GU) completely rebuilt and have been driving it now for about 250km and am noticing a different trend with the ol' Patrol. When climbing any kind of incline in 4th gear, my EGTs skyrocket almost immediately to 400-500C post-turbo. Before the engine rebuild, I could get part-way up in 5th before the EGTs hit 400C and if I dropped into 4th, it would finish the climb in the 300-350C range. Now, I'm having to back off in 4th to get the EGTs down to a normal temp and I can't take any hills with any kind of speed at all. This is even in sub-zero weather here in Siberia.

Is there something I should be checking for, or is the engine really running that much hotter now with everything tight and full compression?

[Kimbo63]

Check boost also check your cam timing could be out

[SiberianPatrol]

Check boost also check your cam timing could be out

Boost is the same as its always been - cruises between 5-7psi @100kmh with it maxing out around 10.5-11psi under full load. Will check the cam timing

[Kimbo63]

Boost is the same as its always been - cruises between 5-7psi @100kmh with it maxing out around 10.5-11psi under full load. Will check the cam timing
Other thing that can lead to high EGT inter cooler and air inlet restrictions over fuelling fuel pump timing let me know how you go checking also can you fill us in what your setup is exhaust inter cooler any other mods
Cheers Kimbo

[SiberianPatrol]

Other thing that can lead to high EGT inter cooler and air inlet restrictions over fuelling fuel pump timing let me know how you go checking also can you fill us in what your setup is exhaust inter cooler any other mods
Cheers Kimbo

Intercooler, exhaust and all intake is factory stock - except for the K&N air filter. Intercooler is not leaking and radiator is stock.

I have a boost controller that I haven't fitted yet because I'm breaking in the engine first then I will fit it.

Other mods I have are a 2" lift, 33" tires. The only other thing not stock is the injector pump - it was changed over to a mechanical one 6 months back (before the rebuild). I can manually increase or decrease the fuel flow but right now it's not smoking at all.


1999 GU RD28Ti; mechanical injector pump, 5kBt Webasto circulation heater, 33" Yokohama Geolander I/T, SaaS boost & EGT gauges, 2" Ironman suspension...more to come

[Kimbo63]

Ok it dose sound like you are down on power have you had it dynoed after rebuild could still be cam timing even a bad valve set can raise EGTs maybe re do the valve clearance

[threedogs]

too much fuel and low boost are the only things I can think of,,

[SiberianPatrol]

Ok it dose sound like you are down on power have you had it dynoed after rebuild could still be cam timing even a bad valve set can raise EGTs maybe re do the valve clearance

No dyno after the rebuild. Haven't been able to track down one that is experienced in diesel tuning. How would I best check the cam timing? I know the mechanic installed hydraulic lifters instead of the mechanical with washer shims. Could that be the problem? Hope not, cuz that means redoing the head again. :(


1999 GU RD28Ti; mechanical injector pump, 5kBt Webasto circulation heater, 33" Yokohama Geolander I/T, SaaS boost & EGT gauges, 2" Ironman suspension...more to come

[Kimbo63]

I think I have touched on this subject before was the cam changed to a hyd lifter ground cam?

[SiberianPatrol]

I think I have touched on this subject before was the cam changed to a hyd lifter ground cam?

Ok. Couldn't remember who commented in the other thread. No, the cam was not changed out. What should I do now? Try to replace the cam or swap out the lifters?


1999 GU RD28Ti; mechanical injector pump, 5kBt Webasto circulation heater, 33" Yokohama Geolander I/T, SaaS boost & EGT gauges, 2" Ironman suspension...more to come

[Kimbo63]

Imo I would just do the lifters easy to do and valve set is not a big drama only because if you use hyd lifters you change the duration of the cam moving your power band up the rpm range also you will find there will be a loss in power and torque I could go into details on this but it will probably get to confusing

[SiberianPatrol]

Imo I would just do the lifters easy to do and valve set is not a big drama only because if you use hyd lifters you change the duration of the cam moving your power band up the rpm range also you will find there will be a loss in power and torque I could go into details on this but it will probably get to confusing

Thanks, Kimbo! From my research, the head and hyd lifters that were put on it are the same as are on the GQ RD28T, but the cam is mine from the GU RD28Ti. I assume the lifters should be interchangeable without any problems?

Can you give me some more details about the differences in the lifters causing the torque and power loss? I'm a shade-tree mechanic and know my way around a vehicle, but some of the details on how things exactly work are unknown to me.


1999 GU RD28Ti; mechanical injector pump, 5kBt Webasto circulation heater, 33" Yokohama Geolander I/T, SaaS boost & EGT gauges, 2" Ironman suspension...more to come

[Kimbo63]

Sure A solid-lifter cam has acceleration ramps that take up the valve clearance gradually, then start lifting the valve. By running the hydraulics, you've effectively increased the duration of the cam lobe by lifting the valves on the acceleration ramps.Due to it having 0 clearance this change in valve timing will make you lose power as it is also the same profile on the down ramp of the cam lobe so if your exhaust valves are open sooner and longer you will loose power out the exhaust hence the higher EGT hope this helps
Another point regarding boost it would not hurt to increase boost this will only help running your engine in however I would sort the lifter issue first as this can have serious consequences ie valve float
Hope this clears things up a bit
Cheers Kimbo

[SiberianPatrol]

Sure A solid-lifter cam has acceleration ramps that take up the valve clearance gradually, then start lifting the valve. By running the hydraulics, you've effectively increased the duration of the cam lobe by lifting the valves on the acceleration ramps.Due to it having 0 clearance this change in valve timing will make you lose power as it is also the same profile on the down ramp of the cam lobe so if your exhaust valves are open sooner and longer you will loose power out the exhaust hence the higher EGT hope this helps
Another point regarding boost it would not hurt to increase boost this will only help running your engine in however I would sort the lifter issue first as this can have serious consequences ie valve float
Hope this clears things up a bit
Cheers Kimbo

Makes sense. Thanks for the info. I'll take it back to the shop that did the rebuild and get them to replace the lifters. Is that the only thing that will need to be swapped out?

[Kimbo63]

I found this site read the section on cam profiles
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2012/01/hydraulic-camshafts-and-lifters-101/
Cheers Kimbo

[Kimbo63]

Let's start there mate and see how it goes as you have no dyno let's use that big hill of yours as the mobile dyno will be good enough for me to help you out
Cheers kimbo

[Kimbo63]

What sort of boost controller do you have?

[SiberianPatrol]

What sort of boost controller do you have?

Just a simple inline controller that I got from Mudski a while back

[Kimbo63]

That cool is it sort of like this
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Genuine-TURBOSMART-Boost-Tee-Manual-Turbo-Boost-Controller-Black-Boost-T-/121002199688?hash=item1c2c4b0a88:m:mNWPniopt-qExceapIWsVwg

[SiberianPatrol]

Same idea. This is the one I have http://m.ebay.com/itm/Dawes-Devices-MKII-Hybrid-Boost-Controller-/161322211590?nav=SEARCH


1999 GU RD28Ti; mechanical injector pump, 5kBt Webasto circulation heater, 33" Yokohama Geolander I/T, SaaS boost & EGT gauges, 2" Ironman suspension...more to come

[threedogs]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?36543-poor-performance-of-a-rd28eti
Have a read of irish stevo's problem

[SiberianPatrol]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?36543-poor-performance-of-a-rd28eti
Have a read of irish stevo's problem

I read through the thread, but everything on mine is mechanical and I run the MAF unplugged anyways b cause the injector pump is mechanical. Thing is, everything on mine is brand new - turbo, pistons, rings, etc. I'm going to get the shop to put back the mechanical lifters on Monday, and we'll see from there how it goes. I'll have about a week to get it sorted once they replace the lifters. Hoping the swap will make the difference. If non, I'm sunk.

[threedogs]

Im struggling to see how a set of lifters can cause your motor to
have high EGTs. Somethings not quite right Imo

I take it you cant get your Patrol Dynoed over there??

[SiberianPatrol]

Im struggling to see how a set of lifters can cause your motor to
have high EGTs. Somethings not quite right Imo

I take it you cant get your Patrol Dynoed over there??

Well the lifters are the only thing that aren't original equipment to the Patrol. Per Kimbo's post it changes the valve timing resulting in a loss of power which is what I am experiencing. The engine is revving high with a loss of power going up an incline. Ill out the lifters back to factory specs hen continue troubleshooting from there.


1999 GU RD28Ti; mechanical injector pump, 5kBt Webasto circulation heater, 33" Yokohama Geolander I/T, SaaS boost & EGT gauges, 2" Ironman suspension...more to come

[SiberianPatrol]

I could probably come up with a dyno somewhere around here, but finding a dyno with experience in diesel tuning would be next to impossible.

[SiberianPatrol]

Ok, an update on the situation. I have it booked for Monday morning for the mechanic to look at and replace the lifters with the stock lifters with shims. In the meantime, I decided to fit my boost controller just for grins and giggles to see what it would do. I set the controller to about 5-7psi cruising @100kph and boosting up to 15psi under full load. (Factory defaults are 5psi @100kph and 10psi under full load)

Took it for a drive out to the big hill again and this time it climbed the hill with almost no difficulty. EGTs maxed out at 400C post-turbo (don't know if that's too high or not) under full throttle and I took most of the hill in 5th and only downshifted to 4th about 3/4 of the way up the hill. Felt like it could accelerate slightly up the hill in 4th, but the change was huge from the stock setup.

This still doesn't "fix" the problem as I never ran the boost controller before my engine rebuild and it would take the hill without problem. I guess we'll see what the mechanic says on Monday and go from there.

@threedogs & @Kimbo63 any suggestions now based on these new findings? Anyone else care to weigh in?

[Stropp]

400 is pretty good, 550 is about as high as you want to go but not for prolonged periods.

[SiberianPatrol]

400 is pretty good, 550 is about as high as you want to go but not for prolonged periods.

Thanks, Stropp. Problem is, without the boost controller, the EGTs keep climbing past 500C on that hill. It never did it before, so I've still got some sorting out to do.

[Stropp]

Thanks, Stropp. Problem is, without the boost controller, the EGTs keep climbing past 500C on that hill. It never did it before, so I've still got some sorting out to do.

Are you sure you are not getting too much fuel? As that can cause high get temps, more boost will lower temps

[SiberianPatrol]

Are you sure you are not getting too much fuel? As that can cause high get temps, more boost will lower temps

Doesn't appear to be but that will be checked on Monday as well.


1999 GU RD28Ti; mechanical injector pump, 5kBt Webasto circulation heater, 33" Yokohama Geolander I/T, SaaS boost & EGT gauges, 2" Ironman suspension...more to come

[threedogs]

X 2 only two things can cause high EGTs that I know of and thats low boost
and too much fuel. Hopefully Monday will sort things out.
Whats stopping you from adding a few extra Lbs of boost, for a slight increase
in performance.???

[Kimbo63]

X 2 only two things can cause high EGTs that I know of and thats low boost
and too much fuel. Hopefully Monday will sort things out.
Whats stopping you from adding a few extra Lbs of boost, for a slight increase
in performance.???
Thats nearly right John High EGTs is caused by fuel burning in your exhaust so if you change your cam profile to lift your exhaust valves too early the fuel haven't had time to burn in the cylinders yet and you will get hig EGTs read the link in post #15 the section on Comparing Cam spec might make you understand better
Cheers Kimbo

[SiberianPatrol]

X 2 only two things can cause high EGTs that I know of and thats low boost
and too much fuel. Hopefully Monday will sort things out.
Whats stopping you from adding a few extra Lbs of boost, for a slight increase
in performance.???

With the controller in now, I've already added about 5 lbs. extra to the high-end setting (15psi vs. 10-11psi factory). I may add a bit more after I get the EGTs sorted out. I have the 2.8L engine - isn't 15psi already about as high as I want to go for a safe setting?

[SiberianPatrol]

Ok, an update on the situation. Mechanic who did the rebuild pulled the valve cover today and was checking everything out - tappets, lifters, etc. Turns out he didn't like something he saw and is putting back in the standard lifters with the shims. Tomorrow is a holiday here in Russia, so he promised it to have it ready by Wednesday. Hopefully this will solve the problem and I'll reinstall my boost controller and be riding good for a while.

[rusty_nail]

Ok, an update on the situation. Mechanic who did the rebuild pulled the valve cover today and was checking everything out - tappets, lifters, etc. Turns out he didn't like something he saw and is putting back in the standard lifters with the shims. Tomorrow is a holiday here in Russia, so he promised it to have it ready by Wednesday. Hopefully this will solve the problem and I'll reinstall my boost controller and be riding good for a while.

nice work mate hope you have a good turn around soon!

[SiberianPatrol]

nice work mate hope you have a good turn around soon!

Thanks, rusty! It's been in and out of shops for the past 8 months getting various bits fixed and fine-tuned, so it will be nice to finally have it road-worthy and reliable. Then I can start with the fun mods ;)

[SiberianPatrol]

Ok final update on this situation (I hope). I got it back from the mechanic late Thursday and he told me that a couple of the hydraulic lifters had collapsed and weren't holding up, so he put the standard lifters with shims and adjusted everything to the proper clearances.

It was a noticeable difference right away. Now I know the 2.8L is no powerhouse engine, but it seems a little snappier on acceleration and a bit smoother. It took the big hill without a hitch - climbed most of the way in 5th and only had to downshift to 4th because of a slow truck in front of me. EGTs climbed to 500C while in 5th and promptly dropped to about 400-450C in 4th. Note, this was without the boost controller installed, so that's a huge improvement from what it was doing.

I installed the boost controller after leaving the shop but haven't had a chance yet to take the hill with it installed. A big thanks to Stropp, Kimbo, TD and the others for the input. Should have it sorted out. Now it's time to start doing all the optional upgrades I've been wanting to do since day 1 ;)


1999 GU RD28Ti; mechanical injector pump, 5kBt Webasto circulation heater, 33" Yokohama Geolander I/T, SaaS boost & EGT gauges, 2" Ironman suspension...more to come

[threedogs]

You've been throwing a fair bit of money lately at your Patrol.
Now get out there and take some pics so we can see what minus 30
looks likes, well done Matt you figured it was the lifter all along lol

[SiberianPatrol]

You've been throwing a fair bit of money lately at your Patrol.
Now get out there and take some pics so we can see what minus 30
looks likes, well done Matt you figured it was the lifter all along lol

Well, when the Patrol is your only vehicle, you've gotta do what you gotta do to keep it on the road. I was hoping not to have to do all of this when I bought it last July, but when you buy on the used car market over here, you never know what you are getting, no matter how carefully you check it over.

The two consoling factors are: 1) it cost way less over here than it would have if I had done something similar back in the States, and 2) I now know exactly what I have with my vehicle and it should be solid for many years to come .

[SiberianPatrol]

You've been throwing a fair bit of money lately at your Patrol.
Now get out there and take some pics so we can see what minus 30
looks likes, well done Matt you figured it was the lifter all along lol

And you'll have to wait a bit for those -30 pictures. We're having a heat wave right now with the temps a balmy -5C ;)

[threedogs]

Geez Matt you're not running around in your budgie smugglers are you minus 5 wow lol

[SiberianPatrol]

Geez Matt you're not running around in your budgie smugglers are you minus 5 wow lol

No, but it feels like perfect shorts and short-sleeve weather :)

[SiberianPatrol]

Ok, one last update. I took the Patrol out for a spin today and hit one of the hills that gave me trouble before - it's a 6% grade for about 1km. Well I hit it in 4th going about 80kph and 15psi boost. I actually accelerated from 80 to 100kph up the incline! EGTs stayed even on 400C and boost pegged out around 15.5psi! Thrilled is not the word to describe how I feel now. Everything I've put into it is now paying off and I feel like I've got a reliable beast that can tackle any kind of roads in any kind of conditions!


1999 GU RD28Ti; mechanical injector pump, 5kBt Webasto circulation heater, 33" Yokohama Geolander I/T, SaaS boost & EGT gauges, 2" Ironman suspension...more to come

[mudnut]

i have been reading this thread since the start. Glad you have got it all sorted.

[Kimbo63]

Good one Matt glad to to see you back on the road always happy to help out
Cheers Kimbo

[SiberianPatrol]

i have been reading this thread since the start. Glad you have got it all sorted.


Good one Matt glad to to see you back on the road always happy to help out
Cheers Kimbo

Thanks for the help and support, mates! Definitely glad to be back on the road. Couldn't have done it without the support and help from everyone here. Now I need to start an official build-up thread and one for my excursions on the winter roads here in Siberia ;)