Car issues

[dannypatrol]

Hey guys,

I bought a Nissan Patrol GU 1998 TB45 dual fuel (297SRR) second hand to do a big lap in 2016. Unfortunately, I have been a bit unlucky with it and I might have bought a cat in a sack.

I found out that the brakes never should have passed the RWC (the ironic thing is that a got a mechanic to check it all out but this was the same mechanic as who gave the RWC). She also overheated on the beach a while ago. I had the thermostat, viscous fan and radiator replaced (see previous topics) and got it checked for broken heads. I thought it was fine, but I hardly use my car, maybe twice a month and I didn’t had any problems. But since a roof rack and rear bar has been installed, the last couple of months temperatures have been off and I am too worried the overheating get worse or it will just break down. I have an ECUtalk and I see the temperature increasing to 97, drops to 95 and then to 115ish. The thermostat should open at 87 so I am wondering if the thermostat is broken (was a brand new one though), so I got a new one but haven’t placed it yet. In addition, I figured it might be good to place an aftermarket sensor in the top radiator hose.

Now the car needs to go for a big service:
• Transfer oil change
• front/rear brake pads and rotors replacement
• rhf brake caliper replacement
• brake fluid flush
• front wheel bearing replacement
• gear box and engine mounts replacement
which will all together be 4-5k according to quotes from mechanics

The worry I have is that the temperature problems wont be solved and that I invest 5k but then still have a car I will not be able to use for a big lap. This and last year were a bit of rough years mentally and these car problems make me more worried than normally (I am normally pretty relaxed). It really kills my motivation of planning the big lap at all just because of the risk I wont even get to that point (I still havent installed my dual battery system etc). Hopefully the new year will be better and I will have new energy to get motivated again to work on my car and learn how to fix things.

Just wondered what the best way is to figure out if I should continue with this car or not.
I think:
(1) replace thermostat and install after market temp sensor in top hose. This will then add extra info in addition to the ecutalk and will tell me if temp sensor is wrong
If cooling problems solved, then get all repairs done
if not....?

[threedogs]

Most here would agree that you only use an OE thermostat from Mr Nissan.
I just poured this into my radiator to fix a head problem, not ideal but gives me time
to sort out what I want to do with my motor.

Remove driving lights if fitted for better air flow

[Bob]

I have two large electric Fans on the front of the Radiator which start when ignition is turned on when it is Hot.
They turn off when the Temp drops.

Quite often when I am driving slow the Fans will come on and you can hear them from the Cabin.

Do you have these Fans and do they turn on when ignition is turned on ???>

[threedogs]

You say gear box mounts so take it ,its a Manual

[dannypatrol]

Most here would agree that you only use an OE thermostat from Mr Nissan.
I just poured this into my radiator to fix a head problem, not ideal but gives me time
to sort out what I want to do with my motor.

Remove driving lights if fitted for better air flow

The thermostat was original from Nissan, I get the impression it opens at 97 though considering thats when ecutalk shows a drop for a short time. Thats why I got a new thermostat but how likely is it that the one in there was faulty considering it was new. That why I am a bit skeptical but yeah I will change that.

I have two massive lightforce spots, I can try to move those to the roof. I like them for the big trip for remote areas but I guess the roof rack would work as well for that. I will try the head gasket fix as well, thanks! :)

[dannypatrol]

I have two large electric Fans on the front of the Radiator which start when ignition is turned on when it is Hot.
They turn off when the Temp drops.

Quite often when I am driving slow the Fans will come on and you can hear them from the Cabin.

Do you have these Fans and do they turn on when ignition is turned on ???>

Yep, have them and they turn on when I start the engine (I just checked it)

[dannypatrol]

You say gear box mounts so take it ,its a Manual

I have an automatic. The car got checked out by a mechanic and he said the engine and gear box mounts need to be replaced

[threedogs]

I would change the thermostat first and see what that does
I think my thermostat is 83-84.
Highest temps now,,, is 93 but it does recovery idling to 83 again
But I now mine needs a flush with the thermostat out

is the new radiator a good one or a ebay cheapie??

[dannypatrol]

It is an ADRAD copper bras one fitted by Red Devil Radiators

[threedogs]

It is an ADRAD copper bras one fitted by Red Devil Radiators

ok rule that out next,, a quality radiator fitted,
is the viscous hub on yours part of the water pump??

slow sand work with no air flow Im sure Id get hot too

[the evil twin]

Before you go any further $ wise get a decent mechanic to do a compression check.
You have to rule out any underlying engine issues if you are doing a lap.

Next, does it overheat on LPG or Petty or both?
They run hotter on LPG anyway.
Is it using any coolant?
You may only need a decent LPG tune or it could be something much more problematic.
Your Thermo should be wide open at 97 not just opening.

Massive Spots on the roof or on top of the bar will be cop bait in W.A. (they are illegal in all states but some police are more rabid than others).
There are any amount of vehicles running around with big Light Force with no probs so you are treating a symptom not making a cure

[dannypatrol]

So the thing is that since I have the extra bar work fitted (extra weight) that it heats up during normal driving faster already and suddenly these big jumps in temp from 95 to 115, back to 105 etc. The extra weight obviously make the car worker harder but I am the only passenger so that should not really be the big thing. Apparently the brakes are in really bad condition, which I heard can cause bit more friction and heat as well. But I am a bit reluctant of fixing those without knowing if I can continue with this car.

I do not think the viscous hub is part of the water pump because when I bought a new one it came without. Is there a way of checking the waterpump? There is clearly circulation going when I accelerate without the radiator cap.

Compression check was done twice now, once by a forum member and once by the radiator shop.

Overheating is on both and it does not seem to use coolant. Though I dont do 100s of kms and I am unsure how much it would use. I drove this year maybe 1000km and topped up the coolant level with a liter or so

The car is due for an LPG tune (has been services a bit over a year ago), reason I havent brought it in is because of motivation and coz I didnt want to spend more money till this was fixed.

[the evil twin]

Fair enough...
So you know the engine passes compression checks etc. which is good news but a litre of coolant maybe dodgy over only 1000 K's.
Might be air in the system or somesuch

Obviously it is running too hot at 95 degrees.
The temp should be down around high 80's very low 90's during normal driving.
This is where the thermostat is cracking open and starting to regulate the temp.
During normal driving there is no way it should hit 105 let alone 115 even on a really hot day.
It also shouldn't matter about teh Bar Work as most of us on here are running at or near GVM with all the crap and toys we have hanging off our rigs.

It also can't suddenly jump to 115 from 95 unless you have a really unusual problem such that a gush of superheated water suddenly comes from somewhere or you get air locks.
There is just too much mass in the coolant to heat up that quickly.
Are you sure the temps you are seeing are accurate?

Anyhoooow... bottom line would be if you are confident the engine is good then get a good LPG tune done, check the thermostat in some boiling water and check the viscous fan for correct operation.

[dannypatrol]

Fair enough...
So you know the engine passes compression checks etc. which is good news but a litre of coolant maybe dodgy over only 1000 K's.
Might be air in the system or somesuch

Obviously it is running too hot at 95 degrees.
The temp should be down around high 80's very low 90's during normal driving.
This is where the thermostat is cracking open and starting to regulate the temp.
During normal driving there is no way it should hit 105 let alone 115 even on a really hot day.
It also shouldn't matter about teh Bar Work as most of us on here are running at or near GVM with all the crap and toys we have hanging off our rigs.

It also can't suddenly jump to 115 from 95 unless you have a really unusual problem such that a gush of superheated water suddenly comes from somewhere or you get air locks.
There is just too much mass in the coolant to heat up that quickly.
Are you sure the temps you are seeing are accurate?

Anyhoooow... bottom line would be if you are confident the engine is good then get a good LPG tune done, check the thermostat in some boiling water and check the viscous fan for correct operation.

I dont know if it uses the liter because it got hot and overflow bottle was too full or something
So before the barwork, the car run hot (100ish) but did not get above the 105 and do the jumpy thing, it is really something from the last 2 months. I get my temps from the ecutalk so it might be as simple as the temp sensor being wrong. At start temperature, ecutalk matches the outside temp.
I will check the thermostat and see if it opens up at correct temperature. Because it is a new one I am just worried it is much bigger and I have to find a new car or something but there is only one way of finding out.

[dom14]

Hey guys,

I bought a Nissan Patrol GU 1998 TB45 dual fuel (297SRR) second hand to do a big lap in 2016. Unfortunately, I have been a bit unlucky with it and I might have bought a cat in a sack.

I found out that the brakes never should have passed the RWC (the ironic thing is that a got a mechanic to check it all out but this was the same mechanic as who gave the RWC). She also overheated on the beach a while ago. I had the thermostat, viscous fan and radiator replaced (see previous topics) and got it checked for broken heads. I thought it was fine, but I hardly use my car, maybe twice a month and I didn’t had any problems. But since a roof rack and rear bar has been installed, the last couple of months temperatures have been off and I am too worried the overheating get worse or it will just break down. I have an ECUtalk and I see the temperature increasing to 97, drops to 95 and then to 115ish. The thermostat should open at 87 so I am wondering if the thermostat is broken (was a brand new one though), so I got a new one but haven’t placed it yet. In addition, I figured it might be good to place an aftermarket sensor in the top radiator hose.

Now the car needs to go for a big service:
• Transfer oil change
• front/rear brake pads and rotors replacement
• rhf brake caliper replacement
• brake fluid flush
• front wheel bearing replacement
• gear box and engine mounts replacement
which will all together be 4-5k according to quotes from mechanics

The worry I have is that the temperature problems wont be solved and that I invest 5k but then still have a car I will not be able to use for a big lap. This and last year were a bit of rough years mentally and these car problems make me more worried than normally (I am normally pretty relaxed). It really kills my motivation of planning the big lap at all just because of the risk I wont even get to that point (I still havent installed my dual battery system etc). Hopefully the new year will be better and I will have new energy to get motivated again to work on my car and learn how to fix things.

Just wondered what the best way is to figure out if I should continue with this car or not.
I think:
(1) replace thermostat and install after market temp sensor in top hose. This will then add extra info in addition to the ecutalk and will tell me if temp sensor is wrong
If cooling problems solved, then get all repairs done
if not....?

Depending on whether you wanna use original Nissan parts or aftermarkets, it shouldn't cost anywhere near 5k, if you can do the above list of jobs yourself. The overheating problem is apparently a cylinder head issue, provided you rule out any water loss from inlet manifold water lines. A good test you can do is a combustion gas leak test. You can buy a kit from ebay for around $80 or so(with the chemical) or get a mechanic to do it.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIY-Engine-Leak-Tester-Head-gasket-leak-or-cracked-warpped-engine-block-head-USA-/301588445860?hash=item4638127aa4:g:DjgAAOxyjNlR5Iy p

That should rule out any head gasket or cracked head issues for the most part. Also if you see excessive bubbling from the radiator that's also in indication of combustion gas leaking into coolant via a bad head gasket or a cracked head. Start the engine when cold with the radiator cap off and observe the any excessive air bubbles.
You can also build a simple setup as mine & then combine it with a CO detector(alarm) and test for combustion gas leaks that way. That's how I did that test on mine. It's a dirt cheap but very reliable way of testing for combustion leaks.

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/showthread.php?35523-How-to-burp-a-radiator

You can build the above gadget and then use a plastic bag in the end of it instead of the bottle top, and then put the CO detector/alarm inside. That's how I did it. CO detector is fairly cheap, around $15 or so.
If the head is stuffed then the job is usually not cheap, unless you pull the head out yourself and get it reconditioned by a head shop or get a changeover one from a place like
www.allhead.com.au. Most of it is labour, hence the reason for high cost.
If you're willing to do the work yourself with the help of the manuals freely available in this forum, you'll be able getaway fairly cheaply.

[firm351]

I think you should check your temp sender is working properly. Pull it out and stick it in a pot of water and use a thermometer to measure the water then compare with the ecu talk reading. Do this from cold water then heat it up so you can test the whole range of the sender. Give all the wiring to the sender a good wriggle aswell to check for temp spikes.
My rule of thumb is always assume its an electrical fault until proven otherwise.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[dom14]

I think you should check your temp sender is working properly. Pull it out and stick it in a pot of water and use a thermometer to measure the water then compare with the ecu talk reading. Do this from cold water then heat it up so you can test the whole range of the sender. Give all the wiring to the sender a good wriggle aswell to check for temp spikes.
My rule of thumb is always assume its an electrical fault until proven otherwise.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Yeah, that approach is logical, as long as we don't take any chances with the coolant temperature gauge on the dashboard and whatever show on ECU TALK.
If the ECU TALK & the dashboard temp gauge both are using the same coolant sensor, then it's ok to assume faulty sensor or wiring and rule it out before looking for
water leaks or head issues. I haven't seen many coolant temperature sensor failures, but I'm sure it happens.
My gut feeling is, if the thermostat, water pump & the viscous fan is in good order, then there's a high probability of head issues.

[billyj]

worth checking but keep in mind the ecu talk and dash gauge read of seperate senders, the gauge sender is a single wire sender, and the ecu talk reads the temp sensor which has a bigger plug/multiple wires

[dom14]

worth checking but keep in mind the ecu talk and dash gauge read of seperate senders, the gauge sender is a single wire sender, and the ecu talk reads the temp sensor which has a bigger plug/multiple wires

Yeah, I reckon, in that case, I think it's kinda reasonable to assume the overheating readings are correct, and probably better to focus on mechanical issues like thermostat, viscous fan, water pump, slow water leaks from anywhere & ultimately a stuffed cylinder head.
IMO, water vanishing into thing air is usually a 99% of the time is a head/head gasket issue.
Can I be right about that?

[dannypatrol]

Depending on whether you wanna use original Nissan parts or aftermarkets, it shouldn't cost anywhere near 5k, if you can do the above list of jobs yourself. The overheating problem is apparently a cylinder head issue, provided you rule out any water loss from inlet manifold water lines. A good test you can do is a combustion gas leak test. You can buy a kit from ebay for around $80 or so(with the chemical) or get a mechanic to do it.
......

I actually tested this with a mechanic with it first overheated and it was all good, thats how I kinda ruled out that it is not the head

[dannypatrol]

worth checking but keep in mind the ecu talk and dash gauge read of seperate senders, the gauge sender is a single wire sender, and the ecu talk reads the temp sensor which has a bigger plug/multiple wires
Is this the sender very close to the radiator? Or is the single wire one? and which one is used by the engine to respond. Aircon cuts out when ecutalk reaches 105 so I assume the engine uses the bigger plug?
I have an aftermarket sensor now as well so I will plug that in the top radiator hose

[dannypatrol]

Yeah, I reckon, in that case, it's kinda reasonable to assume the overheating readings are correct, and probably better to focus on mechanical issues like thermostat, viscous fan, water pump, slow water leaks from anywhere & ultimately a stuffed cylinder head.
IMO, water vanishing into thing air is usually a 99% of the time is a head/head gasket issue.
Is that a correct?

ok. I will replace the thermostat and test the old one and see what happens.

regarding the repairs, it was based on quotes from mechanics. I have no experience with cars so replacing it myself would be too risky considering I am planning a big lap. Bit too scared I fck it up without knowing that I did till something happens

But I dont have a job from jan so I have some time to try things myself

[dom14]

ok. I will replace the thermostat and test the old one and see what happens.

regarding the repairs, it was based on quotes from mechanics. I have no experience with cars so replacing it myself would be too risky considering I am planning a big lap. Bit too scared I fck it up without knowing that I did till something happens

But I dont have a job from jan so I have some time to try things myself

Welcome to the club! :D ;)

Yeah, I think I wrongly assumed you have slow water leaks. Since, you don't & that's good news. So, you can focus not on any head issues.

Bad timing can also cause overheating, but yours is an EFI.

You definitely need to sort out the overheating issue before taking on any long treks.

[the evil twin]

EFI or not it still needs to be timed correctly for either Gas or Petrol or split the difference.
I had a marks on my dizzy for "LPG" and "Petty".
Around town and close to Perth it was timed for LPG as that is all I used.
If I went bush I split the difference as it would spend 1/2 the time on one fuel and 1/2 on the other.

[dom14]

EFI or not it still needs to be timed correctly for either Gas or Petrol or split the difference.
I had a marks on my dizzy for "LPG" and "Petty".
Around town and close to Perth it was timed for LPG as that is all I used.
If I went bush I split the difference as it would spend 1/2 the time on one fuel and 1/2 on the other.

Sure, but it would a bit a PITA to open the bonnet all the time and change the ignition time advance like that.
I've been thinking of an electronic gadget that can do it at a flick of switch on the dash.