Dual battery charging set up and parallel battery winching

[outback]

The current set up I have is the Crank battery and Aux battery and a Surge Power 1314 Battery Isolator to control the charging of the Aux battery.

The winch and caravan brake controller come of the Crank battery. Other items e.g. radio, sat phone fridge outlet come of the Aux battery.

What I want to do is link the Crank and Aux batteries in parallel when I winch. This is to cover the case where I can't sit in the cab and have my foot on the accelerator peddle, as my Patrol does not have a hand throttle.

The wiring is I suspect relative simple.

What I am not sure about is if I should use something like the Redarc Dual Sensing Smart Start SBI 12V 200A (SBI212D), or go for a 25A In-Vehicle Battery Charger/MPPT Regulator (BCDC1225).

I assume the battery charger system will charge both batteries better than using the SB1 unit.

I was told somewhere/some time ago that I had to isolate the Aux battery as I have a brake controller.
Does this mean I need both the SB1 and BCDC, or just the BCDC?

I realise that if I use a BCDC unit I have to disconnect its operation when winching in parallel.

[sooty_10]

Correct me if im wrong but the bcdc device will not link batteries ever.... it is basically a one way battery charger which runs off your start battery/alternator. The only way to link batteries for winching is with a redarc SBI212d or similar with jump start override capabilities or simply get a cole hersy heavy duty solenoid and use that as a link. As i already have a piranha dual batt system (no override) im looking at running a cole hersey manual solenoid for winching/jump starting.

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[outback]

Yes the BCDC units are one way.
That is why I said I would have to have it disconnected, the BCDC unit, electrically if winching with parallel batteries.
Unless I am wrong this will require 2 heavy duty relays/solenoids, one on the Crank battery to BCDC unit wire and one on the Crank – Aux batteries +ve link wire.

Even with an SBI212D I will require some relays, but not much more than about 10 amps.

I suppose it basically comes down to what is the best way to charge both batteries, the SBI212D or a BCDC unit.

[sooty_10]

Where is your second batt located? Is it a cranking batt/hybrid or deep cycle? Unless it is many meters away from the alternator (or low volatage one) or your using undersized cables to the aux batt then a basic smart relay systems will work just as effective if not more than a bcdc unit. So why not simply use the SBI212d for the job? It is capable of 200A continuous and 600A surge? Why add more relays? I believe it has an inbuilt override you just need to add a switch.

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[sooty_10]

Considering you already have a dual batt system and assuming it does the job, i would be inclined to simply add a switch and 200A relay across the winch which bypasses the dual batt sys. I dont see any need to disconnect the existing setup using 2 solenoid. You can pick one up for easily under $150, under $100 if not genuine cole hersee.

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[outback]

At present I have a lean toward the SBI unit approach. As it is the cable to the aux is not big enough as a return so it need replacing. Both batteries are in the engine bay and deep cycle.

[sooty_10]

Deep cycles aren't exactly orientated towards huge current draw. You do really need a high CCA battery to take advantage of anything like winching. I would also assume (i have no actual idea) that it may shorten the life of a deep cycle utilising it for cranking / winching.

If I was going to upgrade my dual batt system and wiring I would definitely be considering the redarc SBI212d.

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[BigRAWesty]

First up there was a recall on the power surge 1314 so hopefully your awear of that..
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/bussmann/transportation/recall_info_NA.html

Secondly the power surge seems to be similar to a voltage sensing solinode but only one way..

Imo for the $120 I'd replace the 1314 with the redarc voltage sensing solinode and add the overide switch. When winching switch it on. And let it do its own thing when not..
From memory the redarc is a 500 amp burst 200 amp constant solinode.
You'll also want a good size cable to between the batteries.. I have 30mm2 between mine.. good for 300 consistent load

[sooty_10]

The redarc for around $90 is only single sensing 100a w/ burst 400a. The dual sensing 100a is around $150. The 200a dual sensing w/ burst 600a is around $300 (autoelecau). I read somewhere yesterday that Redarc even state that the 100a isn't ideal for winching (i thought i even read it may void warranty but couldn't find it again)

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[outback]

Checked the recall and mine is not in that batch.
The 1314 is one way so not useful for what I am looking at.

As far as batteries go these are getting close to end of life so new ones are a minor issue, also on the list.

I have had a talk with REDARC and they say the SBI 212D for this. You need to consider a working load around 200 amps.

Wen talking o them I just forgot to discuss the matter of the BCDC unit as well.

[Rossco]

Yeah I've got a red arc 212d and only just hooked up the hotwire to link batteries. Haven't tried it winching yet not sure how much difference there will be but happy with the isolator. . . Just does is thing without too much fuss most of the time. Also be handy for starting when the cranking is a bit low or cold mornings.

[outback]

What did you connect the blue override wire to?

[the evil twin]

snip...
What I want to do is link the Crank and Aux batteries in parallel when I winch. This is to cover the case where I can't sit in the cab and have my foot on the accelerator peddle, as my Patrol does not have a hand throttle.


Assuming you have a standardish size winch...

Buy a 200 Amp Redarc or similar (only needs to be dual sense if you charge your Cranker via your Aux).
Install it using 2 B&S
Connect the O'ride (blue) wire to a switch.
Leave your Winch connected to the Cranker

All normal useage - override switch off
Winching - override switch on, complete winching operation, override switch off
Flat Cranker - override switch on, start engine, override off

That is all you need and it will work perfectly well

[Rossco]

What did you connect the blue override wire to?
Found a carling switch on ebay and hooked it up. Just wire it so the blue wire is supplied with power when the switch is on.

62771http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2015/11/180.jpg

[outback]

So something like the following diagram?

62772

Just extending the REDARC wiring diagram from their web page

[sooty_10]

I would drop the relay just simply switch to blue wire. No need to complicate it.

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[outback]

Yes that is an option. When I spoke to REDARC the guy said it was possible to drop the relay. Also saves a bit of extra fitting.

[Rossco]

Yeah would agree. No relay on mine, could be wrong but doubt it would draw bugger all current to switch the isolator.

[outback]

Will using just a switch allow for start assist?

[the evil twin]

Will using just a switch allow for start assist?

As per my prev post... yep, no worries.

Indeed, in my prev truck I didn't even have a switch just a 3 inch fly lead bullet connector on the battery feed terminal of the SBI.
To overide all I did was connect the two bullets

[outback]

Thanks ET.

Now back to smoking of a nice piece of pork and beef coated in crushed pepper and a dash of honey...

[sooty_10]

Yeah as said the override is basically an inbuilt relay so draws sweet f a amps when engaged, just needs 12v.

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[the evil twin]

Thanks ET.

Now back to smoking of a nice piece of pork and beef coated in crushed pepper and a dash of honey...

Jeez man, I'm nearly drowning in saliva thinking about how good that would be... I am so gunna call in to your place next time I cross the Nulla'

[outback]

Jeez man, I'm nearly drowning in saliva thinking about how good that would be... I am so gunna call in to your place next time I cross the Nulla'

They are looking good, been on for about 4 hours. Vegs on the BBQ hotplate next..

Let me know when you decide to do drop in.. smoked pork ribs are really nice ...:D

[billyj]

i have the sbi212 controlling my dual bats with an override switch for winching off both. works a treat have had the gq buried deep in nasty clay(tried to drive a dry dam) definetly helps having both batteries, be sure to use a good heavy cable to link them. also look at a hybrid type battery to better handle the high amp draw of winching etc im using a supercharge allrounder 100ah/700+cca. its a good simple system that works really well

[outback]

I am reding most of the existing wiring so its being upgraded to deal with the amp load.

[billyj]

also consider fitting a heavier charge cable from the alt to main battery

[outback]

Doing all that anyway as the BS 12 needs a heavy cable vs the current thing there.
Also making sure the +ve and -ve to the new winch are heavier vs the current ones.

The nasty bit is the controller, it's all plastic. So I have to make a metal backing plate so everything hangs on that vs a plastic one.

[outback]

Additional query:

Is it worth while looking the two -ve battery terminals with a cable, same size as the +ve one?
At present both batteries are earthed at different points.

[the evil twin]

Additional query:

Is it worth while looking the two -ve battery terminals with a cable, same size as the +ve one?
At present both batteries are earthed at different points.

Can if you want but the thickest, heaviest, largest earth cable you can fit is "Patrol B&S"... that is what Nissan and I both use

[sooty_10]

Additional query:

Is it worth while looking the two -ve battery terminals with a cable, same size as the +ve one?
At present both batteries are earthed at different points.
I have as i figure you can never have enough earths. But I cant say it really made a noticeable difference to anything.

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[outback]

Can if you want but the thickest, heaviest, largest earth cable you can fit is "Patrol B&S"... that is what Nissan and I both use
All well and good but I have to go to the local Lawrence & Hanson branch to get the cable and they will have no idea about "Patrol B&S". So what is the real size besides as big as possible?

[the evil twin]

All well and good but I have to go to the local Lawrence & Hanson branch to get the cable and they will have no idea about "Patrol B&S". So what is the real size besides as big as possible?

Patrol B&S is a big black metal thing that the Engine, Body and Suspension bolts too...
IE use the Chassis as the earth (I was being a smart arse, who'd a thunk that eh).
Use the shortest #2 B&S length you can to connect the batteries to it

[outback]

Shock Horror!!!!! ET being a SA..

[BigRAWesty]

Patrol B&S is a big black metal thing that the Engine, Body and Suspension bolts too...
IE use the Chassis as the earth (I was being a smart arse, who'd a thunk that eh).
Use the shortest #2 B&S length you can to connect the batteries to it
This is what I have done for my wiring.
Single positive 30mm2 wire for my dual battery stuff..

[outback]

I get the idea about a BIG THICK cable between the positives, just basics.
but is that Patrol B&S nice as it still really requires lots of earth straps, AND no corrosion.
Dam, that C word again, just like the R word, (rust):jawdrop: