New noise in 4wd....

[Patrol'n]

Howdy blokes and ladies,

So I went for a drive on some tracks today, and all went well, all up until we were driving out on some dirt roads and I started to notice a new noise, I don't generally like new noises 😡

It started out as a light growl (about the best way I can think to describe it), didn't make the noise when accelerating, only when coasting.

Once we hit the blacktop and back in two wheel drive, the noise went away. I then tried driving with the lever in 4 high, but not locking in the hubs, and there was the noise, I also tried driving in 2wd with the hubs locked, and there was the noise again....

I'm assuming that it is related to the front axle, since I think my testing suggests that it isn't gearbox or transfer case, given it occurs in 2wd when the hubs are locked but not when the hubs are unlocked? It also isn't noticeable until above 60ks or so, and doesn't seem to be related to engine revs.

What does everyone else think? Any suggestions, or has anyone else had this problem? (I don't think it's driveline oils, since they were all recently replaced) and from what I could tell today, front and rear wheels were being fed power from the engine.

Here's hoping its something really simple (and cheap) to put right 🤔

[tuckertrucker]

are there any weird vibrations when the noise is being noisy? And does it increase with speed (not revs) once you get to ~60ks?

[threedogs]

I think one of your hubs is not engaging correctly

[Patrol'n]

are there any weird vibrations when the noise is being noisy? And does it increase with speed (not revs) once you get to ~60ks?

There weren't to begin with, but after a bit it did feel like there were, and yep, seemed to get worse with more speed

[Patrol'n]

I think one of your hubs is not engaging correctly

Would that still show up as a problem with the gearbox in 4wd high and the hubs not locked in?

[threedogs]

Yeah if it hasnt dis-engaged properly .

[Patrol'n]

Yeah if it hasnt dis-engaged properly .


Thanks td, I wonder if some of the mud we went through may have gotten into the hubs perhaps.

If that's the problem I'm assuming i can remove the hubs, clean and regrease them and all should be well again?

Or do you think I might have damaged one and a new set would be better?

[BigRAWesty]

Very simple to take stock hubs off.
Simply remove the 6 hex head bolts and pull the hub outwards..
I doubt dirt has gotten in though unless you've done a lot water crossing..
More likely if it's an auto hub it's broken..

[threedogs]

also need to lock them to remove them

[Patrol'n]

Very simple to take stock hubs off.
Simply remove the 6 hex head bolts and pull the hub outwards..
I doubt dirt has gotten in though unless you've done a lot water crossing..
More likely if it's an auto hub it's broken..

We did go through a bunch of muddy standing water, they are manual hubs, and feel smooth but firm to lock, the noise goes away in 2wd, ah well, have to have a look, I'm guessing (hoping) it's not axle or front diff since it's perfectly smooth and noise free when in 2wd, even at highway speed?

[BigRAWesty]

It's a hard one. If stock manual hubs there is nothing that can really go wrong unless it's stripped the locking collar that slides on and off the spline.. they usually smash out before that happens though..
I'm sorry to say but I'm thinking you'll be looking deeper.. it's really not to hard.
MudRunnerTD has done a brilliant build thread of it all with like 100 pictures so it's quite easy to follow..

A good time to check bearing grease and conditions.. and more importantly seals..

[Patrol'n]

It's a hard one. If stock manual hubs there is nothing that can really go wrong unless it's stripped the locking collar that slides on and off the spline.. they usually smash out before that happens though..
I'm sorry to say but I'm thinking you'll be looking deeper.. it's really not to hard.
MudRunnerTD has done a brilliant build thread of it all with like 100 pictures so it's quite easy to follow..

A good time to check bearing grease and conditions.. and more importantly seals..

Oh well if it turns out to be the centre, then it might be a good time to throw a locker in..... have to wait and see

[BigRAWesty]

Hopefully it's not the center. If your shaft seals have worked it should be fine. You cv's and cv bearings are sealed off from the center and wheel bearings..
So you can think of it like 3 sections..
Outter is wheel bearings.. if it was these there would be noise all the time..
Middle is cv, cv hub needle bearing. This is what I'm thinking may be the issue..
The middle is the diff center.
The center has the oil. The others run grease..

[tuckertrucker]

X2 to that. If it were in this so called second section, rotation (ulitmately causing the noise) would only occur if you a) lock the hubs and/or b) engage 4WD.

[Patrol'n]

Hmm, how much does CV repair usually run nowadays?

[Patrol'n]

Maybe I shouldn't be lazy and do it myself, never done this job before, be something new to learn I suppose 🤔

[tuckertrucker]

itll depend entirely on whats wrong and what needs to be done - as with most things in a car. But I'd say around $500?

shouldnt be too hard if youve got the right tools

[Chubba]

Question. This diognoese could also be taken back through to the transfer case via the drive shaft with these symptoms.
Would that be correct and would that only go back as far as the drive shaft bearing in the transfer case?

[tuckertrucker]

Question. This diognoese could also be taken back through to the transfer case via the drive shaft with these symptoms.
Would that be correct and would that only go back as far as the drive shaft bearing in the transfer case?

I could be wrong, but inside the transfer case I thought the drive shaft drives the sprocket and chain. And the sprocket on the main shaft floats on bearings on the mainshaft (like in a manual transmission). But yes you're right with that. As long as either the transfer is in 4WD or the hubs are locked the drive shaft will turn.

Based on this diagnoses, the problem could be anywhere from the CV to the transfer.

[Patrol'n]

Ok, given it could be anywhere from transfer case to front axle, I think I'm going to get a mechanic who's a friend of the family to have a look as I've been down this road before of pulling things apart and replacing stuff only to find out it was something else entirely... It gets unnecessarily expensive at times. Whether I do the repair work or pay him will have to be decided on my motivation and potential cost I think.

Unless anyone can offer some sort of easy tests I can perform to try and narrow it down? (Just don't want to have to spend a weekend pulling stuff apart that doesn't need to be pulled apart)

[the evil twin]

snip...
It started out as a light growl (about the best way I can think to describe it), didn't make the noise when accelerating, only when coasting.

Once we hit the blacktop and back in two wheel drive, the noise went away. I then tried driving with the lever in 4 high, but not locking in the hubs, and there was the noise, I also tried driving in 2wd with the hubs locked, and there was the noise again....


Well, there's growls and there's growls so without much else to go on...
I would hesitantly suggest it is possibly an outside chance of maybe being a universal joint or a CV.
When they first start to crap 'emselves they can go quiet under load and only get noisy when coasting.

[Patrol'n]

Well, there's growls and there's growls so without much else to go on...
I would hesitantly suggest it is possibly an outside chance of maybe being a universal joint or a CV.
When they first start to crap 'emselves they can go quiet under load and only get noisy when coasting.

Yep sorry about the fairly vague description, a growling, knocking, rattle (ish) of sorts is the only way I can think to describe it.

Just tried driving in 4 high again this arvo without locking the hubs, and I can hear the noise at lower speed though not as bad as at higher speed. Since it's not something I've ever experienced before, I'm kinda struggling to figure out what it is.

My experience with CV joints has previously been limited to front wheel drive road vehicles and when the CV joints go in those they make a very distinctive noise particularly when turning, this doesn't remind me of that, but I guess it could be very different in a live axle 4wd?

[dom14]

Well, there's growls and there's growls so without much else to go on...
I would hesitantly suggest it is possibly an outside chance of maybe being a universal joint or a CV.
When they first start to crap 'emselves they can go quiet under load and only get noisy when coasting.

That's what I thought as well. Since the growling only happens when coasting, it points at the diff centre or the uni failure at early stages.
See if there's any play in the front uni joints. Not sure how to externally diagnose shot CVs. I've never done it or had any problems so far. I'm sure the forum search engine might produce some good links onto that. Search for the symptoms of the failing CVs. It's a greasy job to replace them. So, it's a good idea to know beforehand for sure, if you are planning to DIY replace the CVs.
If I recall correctly, go through MudRunnerTD's threads. He's done a detailed documentation on CVs.

[Patrol'n]

That's what I thought as well. Since the growling only happens when coasting, it points at the diff centre or the uni failure at early stages.
See if there's any play in the front uni joints. Not sure how to externally diagnose shot CVs. I've never done it or had any problems so far. I'm sure the forum search engine might produce some good links onto that. Search for the symptoms of the failing CVs. It's a greasy job to replace them. So, it's a good idea to know beforehand for sure, if you are planning to DIY replace the CVs.
If I recall correctly, go through MudRunnerTD's threads. He's done a detailed documentation on CVs.

Thanks mate I'll take a look and I'll have a look for Mudrunners thread too

[Patrol'n]

Ok so an update on my noise, took it past a mechanic friend of the family, he had a look and found one wheel bearing needed adjusting and regreased my uni joints while he was there.

No noise evident now when locking in the hubs in 2wd, however the noise is still definitely there in 4wd high even if the hubs are not locked. More noticeable as the speed increases, I can hear it from about 40ks an hour faintly, and louder as I go quicker.

This might seem like a stupid question, but what the hell, I'll ask it anyway. Can I drive it on a bitumen road briefly in 4wd high without locking in the hubs, so long as I stay on a straight piece of road?

Only reason for this is his workshop is nowhere near any dirt or gravel roads, and I want to be able to get him to hear the noise while driving to help me figure it out, I don't want to have something let go when I'm in the bush or on a beach somewhere...

Thanks for any info.

[BigRAWesty]

You can drive for ever in h4 with hubs unlocked.
Same with locked hubs in 2wd..
You'll have no issues

[Patrol'n]

You can drive for ever in h4 with hubs unlocked.
Same with locked hubs in 2wd..
You'll have no issues

That's what I thought, but before I went doing it I wanted to double check, thanks Kallen

[dom14]

You can drive for ever in h4 with hubs unlocked.
Same with locked hubs in 2wd..
You'll have no issues

It won't affect the lifespan of the CVs or the transfer case((If we mistakenly leave it on that way)?
I'm referring to the old school GQ and GUs. I'm not sure how the latest model Patrols are like.
I occasionally drive H4 & hubs locked on it's own to get them "oiled".

[dom14]

Ok so an update on my noise, took it past a mechanic friend of the family, he had a look and found one wheel bearing needed adjusting and regreased my uni joints while he was there.

No noise evident now when locking in the hubs in 2wd, however the noise is still definitely there in 4wd high even if the hubs are not locked. More noticeable as the speed increases, I can hear it from about 40ks an hour faintly, and louder as I go quicker.

This might seem like a stupid question, but what the hell, I'll ask it anyway. Can I drive it on a bitumen road briefly in 4wd high without locking in the hubs, so long as I stay on a straight piece of road?

Only reason for this is his workshop is nowhere near any dirt or gravel roads, and I want to be able to get him to hear the noise while driving to help me figure it out, I don't want to have something let go when I'm in the bush or on a beach somewhere...

Thanks for any info.

Yeah, it indicates the noise can't be the bearings. But, also indicates two separate noise issues(often they are).
BTW, get hold of a grease gun and clean and grease the uni joints via the nipples, if you go offroading regularly.
Once every few months is a good idea depending on your offroad frequency.

[BigRAWesty]

Yep not an issue.
My gq did the first 250###k with hubs engaged full time..
During winter it was just easier on the farm to leave em in..
Then when I pulled em out at 500###k they were still like new..

I think it's good to do it every now and then if your not off roading as it gets the oil moving around and into the gears and gets the grease moving threw the cv's etc

[Patrol'n]

Just thought I'd update on the noise and vibration issue I've been having in my truck.

I believe it has been narrowed down to the front drive shaft. With the front shaft removed and the lever in 4 high, no noise when driving, (so I think that rules out the transfer), and with the lever in 2wd and the front hubs locked, no noise, (so I think that proves it isn't in the front axle), Put the front shaft back in, and there's the noise and the vibration...

There is a little play in the front Uni, and my mechanic had the shaft balance checked and it isn't balanced properly.

So next week I'm getting the front shaft reco'd new unis and a rebalance.

Weird thing is that the shaft has a balance weight and shows no evidence of losing any weights, so I guess it's just slowly gone out of balance over the last 22 years and needs a bit of TLC.

Hopefully once the shaft is overhauled it will be all good again :-)

[threedogs]

It would make a whrrrrring sound if it was the tail shaft and cause vibration as well
but get some new uni's and you have your fix hopefully, well done always a bugger finding
where a noise comes from

[BigRAWesty]

Just thought I'd update on the noise and vibration issue I've been having in my truck.

I believe it has been narrowed down to the front drive shaft. With the front shaft removed and the lever in 4 high, no noise when driving, (so I think that rules out the transfer), and with the lever in 2wd and the front hubs locked, no noise, (so I think that proves it isn't in the front axle), Put the front shaft back in, and there's the noise and the vibration...

There is a little play in the front Uni, and my mechanic had the shaft balance checked and it isn't balanced properly.

So next week I'm getting the front shaft reco'd new unis and a rebalance.

Weird thing is that the shaft has a balance weight and shows no evidence of losing any weights, so I guess it's just slowly gone out of balance over the last 22 years and needs a bit of TLC.

Hopefully once the shaft is overhauled it will be all good again :-)
Beautiful..
I was wondering about that, that's why I mentioned it.
I should have replied it here instead of the "what made you angry thread"
Anyway, rebuild those uni joints, grease the slide and bolt it in..

[Patrol'n]

Beautiful..
I was wondering about that, that's why I mentioned it.
I should have replied it here instead of the "what made you angry thread"
Anyway, rebuild those uni joints, grease the slide and bolt it in..

Yep, it's being sorted tomorrow with a bit of luck, and then it's into 4 high to test it, then I reckon a track somewhere this weekend to test it off road...

Ok yeah that's just an excuse to go do some wheeling :-)

[dom14]

Beautiful..
I was wondering about that, that's why I mentioned it.
I should have replied it here instead of the "what made you angry thread"
Anyway, rebuild those uni joints, grease the slide and bolt it in..

I'm not sure how they balance driveshafts.
I'm guessing 4wd specialized places have the gear for it?
If the uni has a play in it, I would blame it first.
Driveshaft balancing is a new domain for me.
I'm guessing they attach weights to it?!!
Not too sure how critical that's for the front drive shaft?!!!

Previously I thought an out of balance driveshaft is a replacement job!

[Patrol'n]

I'm not sure how they balance driveshafts.
I'm guessing 4wd specialized places have the gear for it?
If the uni has a play in it, I would blame it first.
Driveshaft balancing is a new domain for me.
I'm guessing they attach weights to it?!!
Not too sure how critical that's for the front drive shaft?!!!

Previously I thought an out of balance driveshaft is a replacement job!

Yeah I believe that they replace the unis then attach weight to wherever is required to rebalance the shaft on a machine for that purpose, years ago I had to have a driveshaft rebalanced in one of my road cars, fixed it up nicely.
I reckon it's critical enough since it sounded and felt pretty bad when driving, although obviously worn unis wouldn't be helping.
Our family mechanic was able to quote for a brand new one for me, but the money tree must need some water, it didn't have that much on it!
Still, I do think it's good that you can still buy all these bits new if required for a 22 year old vehicle. I've tried to buy bits for younger vehicles many years ago, only to have to go to someone like Rare spares as they weren't made anymore. Of course they weren't Nissans, they were another make, another thumbs up for the GQ :-)

[the evil twin]

Mine were done at Driveline Australia in Welshpool, couldn't be happier with the result
The rear was shortened and front lengthened when Brunnies put in the 4L85 gearbox

[Patrol'n]

Mine were done at Driveline Australia in Welshpool, couldn't be happier with the result
The rear was shortened and front lengthened when Brunnies put in the 4L85 gearbox

What engine are you running from Brunswick, the 6.5 Chev?

[BigRAWesty]

I can't see a uni rebuild needing a re balance though??
Bearings are a high processions item..
Balancing is more mods like lengthening the drive shaft etc..
Your local machanic will be able to replace the bearings easy enough..
I doubt you'll need a balance after but ask his oppion and where to send it..

[the evil twin]

Agree with Kallen.
Usually only need a re-balance if it is modified or damaged... haven't bent it by any chance?

If the money tree isn't flowering you could get the Universals done and drive it for a bit.
If it is all tickety boo then goodo but if you still have a vibration pop the shaft off and get it looked at.


What engine are you running from Brunswick, the 6.5 Chev?

Yes

[Patrol'n]

Agree with Kallen.
Usually only need a re-balance if it is modified or damaged... haven't bent it by any chance?

If the money tree isn't flowering you could get the Universals done and drive it for a bit.
If it is all tickety boo then goodo but if you still have a vibration pop the shaft off and get it looked at.



Yes

I would love one of those, (much as I love my rb30) :-)

One of those days, hopefully I can get the cash together for the engine conversion, is it worth the expense over a td42?

[BigRAWesty]

Go a Cummins conversion.
They shoit over any chev conversion..
600+ Nm out of the stock turbo engine..

[Patrol'n]

Go a Cummins conversion.
They shoit over any chev conversion..
600+ Nm out of the stock turbo engine..

How much do they run to?

[BigRAWesty]

12-15psi is stock my brother reckons.
He's just picked one up. His work shop only rebuild it 1000 hours ago and he got it for $2000

[Patrol'n]

12-15psi is stock my brother reckons.
He's just picked one up. His work shop only rebuild it 1000 hours ago and he got it for $2000

Wow that's a good price, how hard is the conversion and parts availability and how do they drive?

[BigRAWesty]

A few patrols done now but Tbh I have no idea.
Brother is bolting his to an 80..
I would think conversion would be on par with a zd to td or similar as its all mechanical.. it's a 7ltr td42 lol.
Built like a brick shit house to.

[Patrol'n]

A few patrols done now but Tbh I have no idea.
Brother is bolting his to an 80..
I would think conversion would be on par with a zd to td or similar as its all mechanical.. it's a 7ltr td42 lol.
Built like a brick shit house to.

Reckon I might do some research, wonder what a 7 litre engine uses per hundred, then again I spose if installing a 7 litre engine, that's not a question to ask, lol

[BigRAWesty]

Chev s are 6.5 so what's half a liter lol

[Patrol'n]

Well it might only be half a litre, but I reckon an extra half a litre would help my RB30 quite a bit.... 😀

[dom14]

Well it might only be half a litre, but I reckon an extra half a litre would help my RB30 quite a bit.... 😀

Turbo it. That's the best way to get more power from an RB30.

[Patrol'n]

Yep, that is still the most likely option from cost and simplicity perspective, with a mostly factory setup hopefully I can keep the torque relatively (for an RB30 anyway), low in the rev range, I do love the thought of the big torquey turbo diesel though! At the moment my engine runs exceptionally well, smooth, no oil or coolant usage, no smoke etc, (touch wood), so at the moment I am loathe to do anything to the motor, and from a budget perspective, it's better right now to keep it as is too!


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[dom14]

Yep, that is still the most likely option from cost and simplicity perspective, with a mostly factory setup hopefully I can keep the torque relatively (for an RB30 anyway), low in the rev range, I do love the thought of the big torquey turbo diesel though! At the moment my engine runs exceptionally well, smooth, no oil or coolant usage, no smoke etc, (touch wood), so at the moment I am loathe to do anything to the motor, and from a budget perspective, it's better right now to keep it as is too!


Same here. Mine's still old school NA carby RB30. I'm happy with the reliability and the simplicity of the heavy unit, i can't let it go. :D
Had quite a few cars over the years, ironically the Patrol which happened to be a rugged 4WD & not about reliability is the most reliable and dependable unit I've had. It's like finding my true love. :D (touch wood?.......Hmmm.. may be not. :) )
You gotta make your true love into a wife when you find her, right?! ;)

I was considering an EFI first then turbo conversion, until I've got bitten by the turbo diesel bug. :)

[Patrol'n]

Alright, so an update on the actual reason for this thread, got the tail shaft back, it needed 5 balancing weights to true it up. The unis were actually fine in the end, a regrease and no problems.

I think that when I noticed it was the first time I've had this truck in 4high at speed when not on a horribly corrugated road, so it's probably been that way since I bought it. Probably just an age thing, sometimes I don't feel as balanced as 20 years ago either, lol.

In any event, it's time for a test run to make sure, but hopefully will be happy days :-)

[Patrol'n]

Same here. Mine's still old school NA carby RB30. I'm happy with the reliability and the simplicity of the heavy unit, i can't let it go. :D
Had quite a few cars over the years, ironically the Patrol which happened to be a rugged 4WD & not about reliability is the most reliable and dependable unit I've had. It's like finding my true love. :D (touch wood?.......Hmmm.. may be not. :) )
You gotta make your true love into a wife when you find her, right?! ;)

I was considering an EFI first then turbo conversion, until I've got bitten by the turbo diesel bug. :)

So you're not thinking to turbo your RB anymore?

[Patrol'n]

Ok, so now I am getting really really mad, took the truck for a drive in 4 high, hubs unlocked.

Noise is there in all its f#*@$ng glory... I don't know what it is but I know it isn't right...

I am so mad, I hate getting something fixed and not fixing the actual problem I was concerned with in the first place, oh man, I think I am going to drink myself to sleep tonight to avoid doing something stupid.

Fighting the urge to put it on gumtree.... $@%^#%~!

Got a trip coming up and been trying to sort this crap out, I do not want the threat of a trackside failure that could have been prevented in the back of my mind, but there it is 😡😡😡😡

[the evil twin]

Okaaay, thats a bit weird, so just to confirm a few things...

How fast are you going when you can first notice it and when it gets really obvious?

Are you 100% sure it is a new and abnormal noise?

How often prior to noticing the noise had you driven at those speeds with the transfer in 4H or forgotten to lock the hubs?

Petty's are different to Diesels as well... because they run quieter any weird noises are more noticeable

The front drive train isn't exactly silent at high speed IE if you forget to unlock your hubs and hit the bitumen in 2H you will def know about it above 60 to 80 KPH
In my TB42 it was totally obvious by about 70 ish

[the evil twin]

Hubs - can't be hubs, that noise should go away when locked not start and will sound freaking horrible if they are stuffed
Wheel Bearings, Brakes - can't be wheel bearings etc or it would do it all the time
CV's - can't be CV's if the are bad enough to rumble they should nearly leap out of the truck when you turn
Axles - 99% can't be
Bent Diff Housing - possible I spose but a real longshot
Front Diff, Carrier, Pinion etc - possible, I don't know enough about them
Unis - eliminated
Front drive Shaft - eliminated
Transfer case - 99% can't be and you would feel that in your arse rather than from the front

[Patrol'n]

Okaaay, thats a bit weird, so just to confirm a few things...

How fast are you going when you can first notice it and when it gets really obvious?

Are you 100% sure it is a new and abnormal noise?

How often prior to noticing the noise had you driven at those speeds with the transfer in 4H or forgotten to lock the hubs?

Petty's are different to Diesels as well... because they run quieter any weird noises are more noticeable

The front drive train isn't exactly silent at high speed IE if you forget to unlock your hubs and hit the bitumen in 2H you will def know about it above 60 to 80 KPH
In my TB42 it was totally obvious by about 70 ish

I can hear it very mildly at low speed, even turning at low speed there is just a hint of it occasionally, definitely starts getting noticeable by 40, and by 60 I don't feel like it's doing anything good mechanically.

I am fairly sure it's a new noise, it definitely doesn't sound like anything I've heard before, can't place what it is.

I have driven it plenty of times in 4 high at speed, but usually always on sand or corrugations, so maybe I didn't hear it, but it still sounds different.

I once drove back from a run at the powerlines track and did a bit of highway speed with hubs locked in 2wd, took me a minute to work out what the noise was, but that was definitely different to this.

It happens with or without the hubs locked when the lever is in 4 high, but it didn't make the noise with the driveshaft removed and the lever in 4 high so couldn't be transfer case could it?

[Patrol'n]

In addition, there is no longer any vibration to be felt when driving in 2wd or 4 high, so I'm guessing that the vibration and noise were 2 separate issues, the vibration must have been the very out of balance front shaft, the noise must be something else, although I can't figure out what.

Gotta love this sort of thing...

[the evil twin]

In addition, there is no longer any vibration to be felt when driving in 2wd or 4 high, so I'm guessing that the vibration and noise were 2 separate issues, the vibration must have been the very out of balance front shaft, the noise must be something else, although I can't figure out what.

Gotta love this sort of thing...

OK, so progress is being made at least...

I am going to call it as the front diff pinion bearings
There is a reasonable chance that as the shaft was that far out of balance it has promoted wear in the bearings
Shouldn't be the thrust bearings but that is a chance as well spose

Any of you lurkers watching this thread know more than E.T. about front diffs (that wouldn't be hard) ?

[Patrol'n]

Thanks for your time helping with this one E.T. So if it's front pinion bearings, how hard are they to change? I suppose the only way to prove front pinion bearings as the fault is rip em out, check/replace and test?


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[Rossco]

It happens with or without the hubs locked when the lever is in 4 high, but it didn't make the noise with the driveshaft removed and the lever in 4 high so couldn't be transfer case could it?

Sounds like the transfer is eliminated, have you tried it with the shaft taken out and hubs locked? This should narrow it down to the front end somewhere if it shows up. Most likely in the diff somewhere possibly pinion the vibrating shaft could have taken is toll.

Just out of interest the front shaft on my GQ vibrates pretty bad at Highway speeds, think it's pretty common for them to be out of balance. I've always just taken the hubs out but should get it sorted properly. Another thing for the list! !

[the evil twin]

Thanks for your time helping with this one E.T. So if it's front pinion bearings, how hard are they to change? I suppose the only way to prove front pinion bearings as the fault is rip em out, check/replace and test?


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My pleasure... my prev 'progress' comment may not read how I meant it.
I meant it in a positive way IE your half way there so balancing teh shaft wasn't a bad thing.

Unfortunately I have only pulled a front diff down far enough to do a Locker... once... that was enough for me 'cause I don't enjoy mechanical stuff as much as I am old and feeble and decrepit and lazy and that diff was freakin' heavy.

Whereabouts in WA are you?... if you are NOR Perth I would say take it to Mike at XLR8 fabrications.
He has done, like, a gazillion diff rebuilds, lockers etc and is my goto guy for that sorta shyte

[dom14]

So you're not thinking to turbo your RB anymore?

Not sure. ideally I would like to keep the RB and a TD, but won't be financially practical.
I prefer the RB30 as it is for the reliability on long outback trips.
Turbo is more power, but not too sure about the reliability though.
I guess it's a matter of installing a good intercooler to prevent overheating and heat related failures of the turbo and engine.

[dom14]

Thanks for your time helping with this one E.T. So if it's front pinion bearings, how hard are they to change? I suppose the only way to prove front pinion bearings as the fault is rip em out, check/replace and test?


If the pinion bearings are shot then it's easy to find it. This was the video I did on mine(rear one) last year.
Front will be the same. Look/feel for a play similar to this and your pinion bearing is shot.

Pinion bearings on it's own aren't available afaik.
So, I had to buy the rebuild kit which comes with the pinion and carrier bearings and rebuild the diff.
You'll have to set the tooth pattern, backlash and pinion bearing preload.
You will need tools iike inch-pound torque gauge & dial indicator. I bought a dial indicator & used hanging digital scale to measure the pinion bearing preload. So, it's a fair bit of work. Tooth pattern can be set using acrylic ink or similar compound.
While I've been rebuilding the original diff, I bought a used one and fitted, so I can get around.

If you don't want the trouble of all the work, just buy a used one off ebay, wrecker, etc. Whether you pay a diff specialist or buy a used one, it will cost around the same. Perhaps bit cheaper for the front diff, 'cos it's usually an open diff, not an LSD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljzutTaygO4

[the evil twin]

Turbo on the RB30 is a pretty big job... thats prob why so many people do a Skyline transplant instead
The boys on the Skyline and VL Crappadore sites are all over the process for the 30's so some good reading there.

[Patrol'n]

Not sure. ideally I would like to keep the RB and a TD, but won't be financially practical.
I prefer the RB30 as it is for the reliability on long outback trips.
Turbo is more power, but not too sure about the reliability though.
I guess it's a matter of installing a good intercooler to prevent overheating and heat related failures of the turbo and engine.

Yeah that's definitely where I think I'm at right now too, it just starts every time, runs smoothly etc, hasn't failed to do any off-road challenge yet I've tried yet, just momentum and tire pressure choice is more critical than say my mates turbo diesel GU, he can just use more right foot most of the time... Only time I really feel the urge for more power is up steep hills at highway speeds, come on down third gear and 5500rpm :-)


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[Patrol'n]

My pleasure... my prev 'progress' comment may not read how I meant it.
I meant it in a positive way IE your half way there so balancing teh shaft wasn't a bad thing.

Unfortunately I have only pulled a front diff down far enough to do a Locker... once... that was enough for me 'cause I don't enjoy mechanical stuff as much as I am old and feeble and decrepit and lazy and that diff was freakin' heavy.

Whereabouts in WA are you?... if you are NOR Perth I would say take it to Mike at XLR8 fabrications.
He has done, like, a gazillion diff rebuilds, lockers etc and is my goto guy for that sorta shyte

I am NOR so it doesn't look like XLR8 is too far away, I may have to get a quote, I just really want to avoid the whole fixing stuff that isn't the problem, ever since I bought my first car, that is always the thing that has given me the irits, I don't mind fixing stuff that isn't working properly, that's part of vehicle ownership, and maintenance is fine, but if I had to pick one thing that most annoyed me about cars, it's chasing strange issues that don't seem to want to be fixed!

If it needs pulling apart I think i I'll have to price the repair vs a locker [emoji12]


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[Patrol'n]

Sounds like the transfer is eliminated, have you tried it with the shaft taken out and hubs locked? This should narrow it down to the front end somewhere if it shows up. Most likely in the diff somewhere possibly pinion the vibrating shaft could have taken is toll.

Just out of interest the front shaft on my GQ vibrates pretty bad at Highway speeds, think it's pretty common for them to be out of balance. I've always just taken the hubs out but should get it sorted properly. Another thing for the list! !

Yep it did make the noise with the shaft out and hubs locked, it's sounding more like the pinion, if that means any work on the centre that might be an excuse for a front locker :-)

Ironically I'm pretty fussy about the mechanicals of my vehicles, but the repaired fiberglass front and rear guards, pin-striping and dirt doesn't bother me at all :-)


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[the evil twin]

He's in Bayswater http://www.xlr8fabrications.com/

Awesome fabricator but it is his Patrol knowledge that can really help a bloke out

[dom14]

Turbo on the RB30 is a pretty big job... thats prob why so many people do a Skyline transplant instead
The boys on the Skyline and VL Crappadore sites are all over the process for the 30's so some good reading there.

Yeah but, it's becoming increasingly difficult to find a turbo Skyline or a VL.

[Patrol'n]

So here's a short video of a noise I found when checking to see if the pinion bearings had play. It didn't seem to have any play like dom14's video, but with turning the front shaft back and forth a short way, this is a noise I found. My questions are, could this be causing noise at speed with the lever in 4 high and hubs unlocked, is it normal or not, (play in the centre)??? And lastly what could it be causing that and should I be worried, coz at speed it doesn't sound normal!!! Thanks for everyone's ongoing help :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkhttps://vimeo.com/145772193

[Patrol'n]

He's in Bayswater http://www.xlr8fabrications.com/

Awesome fabricator but it is his Patrol knowledge that can really help a bloke out

Well Bayswaters just down the road, might give him a call tomorrow :-)


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[Patrol'n]

Yeah but, it's becoming increasingly difficult to find a turbo Skyline or a VL.

Plus a few workshops I spoke to aren't keen at all to do a turbo install if I wanted one done professionally, gotta be blokes out there who would do the work I just haven't found em


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[dom14]

Plus a few workshops I spoke to aren't keen at all to do a turbo install if I wanted one done professionally, gotta be blokes out there who would do the work I just haven't found em


For a turbo installation, you obviously wanna go to a place specialized in turbos.

[dom14]

So here's a short video of a noise I found when checking to see if the pinion bearings had play. It didn't seem to have any play like dom14's video, but with turning the front shaft back and forth a short way, this is a noise I found. My questions are, could this be causing noise at speed with the lever in 4 high and hubs unlocked, is it normal or not, (play in the centre)??? And lastly what could it be causing that and should I be worried, coz at speed it doesn't sound normal!!! Thanks for everyone's ongoing help :-)
https://vimeo.com/145772193

I would say that's the diff gear backlash play, 'cos you're producing the noise by turning the diff/drive shaft. But, judging from the video, I"m wondering whether it's showing bit too much backlash, which also means worn pinion bearing.
But, ideally, you should be able to feel a bearing play the same way you feel wheel bearing play by moving the drive shaft/flange in that manner. The noise is definitely backlash play and noise, but can't say for sure whether it's too much backlash and noise there.
Another important thing is that to feel the pinion bearing play properly, you need to make sure the drive shaft is freely moving and the gearbox/transfer is not engaged, etc.

I remember when I had the handbrake on and the gearbox was engaged(in gear) I couldn't feel any pinion bearing play at all. That 'cos the it tightens up the drive shaft.
So, make sure the transfer is not engaged and the hubs are not locked when you test the front diff pinion bearing for any play.

Also consider diff oil change/oil level check if you haven't done it yet.

[Patrol'n]

I would say that's the diff gear backlash play, 'cos you're producing the noise by turning the diff/drive shaft. But, judging from the video, I"m wondering whether it's showing bit too much backlash, which also means worn pinion bearing.
But, ideally, you should be able to feel a bearing play the same way you feel wheel bearing play by moving the drive shaft/flange in that manner. The noise is definitely backlash play and noise, but can't say for sure whether it's too much backlash and noise there.
Another important thing is that to feel the pinion bearing play properly, you need to make sure the drive shaft is freely moving and the gearbox/transfer is not engaged, etc.

I remember when I had the handbrake on and the gearbox was engaged(in gear) I couldn't feel any pinion bearing play at all. That 'cos the it tightens up the drive shaft.
So, make sure the transfer is not engaged and the hubs are not locked when you test the front diff pinion bearing for any play.

Also consider diff oil change/oil level check if you haven't done it yet.

Hey dom thanks for the reply mate, I think on re reading it my post mighta sounded a bit mechanically naive...

I agree it seems like backlash causing the noise in the video, what I was trying to say whilst tired and frustrated was that I wondered if it was too much / too loud, I have no experience repairing front diff / axles, only rear and wasn't sure if there were differences... I was wondering if it was excessive, whether that could be causing the noise when driving.

I had it in 2wd and hubs were unlocked in the video, when I tried to move it laterally as in your video, it felt tight so I wondered if the rotational noise could be it.

It was also only a couple of months ago that it got a full driveline oil change, (made a huge difference to the smoothness of the gearbox operation, particularly second when cold) :-)

A further update is I spoke to the mechanic today and he had tested it in 4wd with hubs locked, (safely of course), he said the noise disappears. (He even got a second opinion from his usual transmission specialist), I tested this about half an hour ago, and yep, sure enough with hubs locked and in 4wd it makes no noise now, other than a slight increase in general driveline noise, which I would expect with a transfer case and another diff operating.

So whilst that makes it seem that it should be ok, I still wonder why the noise occurs in 4high with hubs unlocked...

Can't figure it out, but given that generally I never drive in 4 high without locking the hubs, do I need to worry?

If I do I'll take E.T.s advice and talk to XLR8 about it.

[dom14]

If the mechanic says it's ok with the aid of a transmission specialist's second opinion, I would leave it the way it is.

The noise you describe may be normal, 'cos the power is not getting transferred to the wheels and the front driveshaft, diff, axle, cvs turn on their own. So, excessive noise should be able to explain that way.
I wanted to put on 4H and drive and see if I get any noise as you describe, but can't 'cos mine won't be running until I finish the work I'm doing right now. Having said that, I think we are not suppose to drive it on highways with 4H or 4L on. I'll wait for somebody with more knowledge on that to post about that. One thing I can assure you is that if you drive with 4H engaged and hubs locked on highways(on a straight line), it will most certainly be noisier than 2H driving.

BTW, front and rear diffs work on the same way. Rear diff is more complicated 'cos it's an LSD. Front is usually an open diff, unless you have diff locker, etc.
If you've done rear diff, then you should be able to do the front diff with your eyes closed. :)

[Patrol'n]

If the mechanic says it's ok with the aid of a transmission specialist's second opinion, I would leave it the way it is.

The noise you describe may be normal, 'cos the power is not getting transferred to the wheels and the front driveshaft, diff, axle, cvs turn on their own. So, excessive noise should be able to explain that way.
I wanted to put on 4H and drive and see if I get any noise as you describe, but can't 'cos mine won't be running until I finish the work I'm doing right now. Having said that, I think we are not suppose to drive it on highways with 4H or 4L on. I'll wait for somebody with more knowledge on that to post about that. One thing I can assure you is that if you drive with 4H engaged and hubs locked on highways(on a straight line), it will most certainly be noisier than 2H driving.

BTW, front and rear diffs work on the same way. Rear diff is more complicated 'cos it's an LSD. Front is usually an open diff, unless you have diff locker, etc.
If you've done rear diff, then you should be able to do the front diff with your eyes closed. :)

Cheers mate, I still have a locker on the list for the front, so my first time working on a front diff may well be when it's time to install that. (When motivation is high and laziness / beer drinking is low) lol

[Patrol'n]

Quick update after a camping weekend with some wheeling along the way, all good, no noise and no vibrations. 😀

Cheers all for their input and assistance, would have driven me nuts if it hadn't gotten sorted!