Ti Patrol Auto Gearbox wont drive - Engine Changed

[d4dozer38]

Hello

I had the misfortune of overheating and ruining the engine on my 98 Ti patrol - a 4.5 litre dual fuel petrol gas engine.

I purchased a second hand low km replacement motor and swapped the motors.

The new motor runs fine, however the Auto gearbox just wont drive. Oil level has been checked, there used to be a small clunk when it went into drive but that clunk seems to have disappeared.

The gearbox was fine before the motor change, so I hope that the problem is something really simple, something silly that I have missed.

Any ideas as to what traps there might be for new players that could cause this?

cheers

D4dozer38

[jff45]

You might think this is a silly question but did you bolt the torque converter to the flexplate?

[abeeke]

You might think this is a silly question but did you bolt the torque converter to the flexplate?

this seems most likely!

The transfer leaver isn't in "N" is it?

also, on these do you need to check the gearbox oil level with them running, alot of autos you do, as the oil will go down dramatically with it running. I would guess that the gearbox cooler hoses may have been disconnected during engine replacement, and may of lost some fluid this way.

also have you checked for codes in the transmission? I hope there isn't some sensor or signal the auto box needs that was on the Fuel injected petrol that is now missing?

[d4dozer38]

Thanks , your question is interesting, I hope you mean "did you bolt the gearbox housing on" .....the replacement motor had flex plate on it and only the flywheel was changed over, then with great difficulty the gear box bolted to the motor......

It's dangerous not being a mechanic by the sounds of things


Cheers

[abeeke]

Thanks , your question is interesting, I hope you mean "did you bolt the gearbox housing on" .....the replacement motor had flex plate on it and only the flywheel was changed over, then with great difficulty the gear box bolted to the motor......

It's dangerous not being a mechanic by the sounds of things



Cheers

There will be a whole at the bottom, you need to bolt the torque converter to the flex plate, after you have put the engine in, you would of had to unbolt them to pull it out. it doesn't have a shaft like a manual box.

[abeeke]

62053

these bolts here that my finger is pointing to, you need to slide the torque converter fowards, and spin the engine round until you line 1 bolt up, then do the rest, there should be a little hole you can access this from at the bottom of the engine

[jff45]

When your engine was out, you should have seen this. This is a TB45E auto trans with the torque converter in place.
When the engine goes back in, that torque converter needs to be bolted back onto the flexplate.
Did you unbolt the torque converter before removing the engine?
...

[jff45]

Thanks , your question is interesting, I hope you mean "did you bolt the gearbox housing on" .....the replacement motor had flex plate on it and only the flywheel was changed over, then with great difficulty the gear box bolted to the motor......

It's dangerous not being a mechanic by the sounds of things


Cheers

What do you mean by "only the flywheel was changed over"?

I'm starting to think you removed the engine with the torque converter still attached.

[abeeke]

What do you mean by "only the flywheel was changed over"?

I'm starting to think you removed the engine with the torque converter still attached.

Sadly it sounds like your right, especially the bit about it being difficult to go back in....autos usually go back in pretty easily IMHO...

BUT how would you change the flex plate over without removing the torque converter?

If the engine was put back in withe torque converter attached to the flexplate, I would be thinking that it wouldn't engage properly when you go to put it back in, and huge risk of damaging the seal on the torque converter. Is this what you think is happening jff45?

oil out of the torque converter would of been going everywhere as the engine got tipped up

[jff45]

Attempting to mate the trans with the engine with the torque converter attached to the engine would likely result in breaking the oil pump. Hence why the trans no longer drives.

[d4dozer38]

Sadly it sounds like your right, especially the bit about it being difficult to go back in....autos usually go back in pretty easily IMHO...

BUT how would you change the flex plate over without removing the torque converter?

If the engine was put back in withe torque converter attached to the flexplate, I would be thinking that it wouldn't engage properly when you go to put it back in, and huge risk of damaging the seal on the torque converter. Is this what you think is happening jff45?

oil out of the torque converter would of been going everywhere as the engine got tipped up


Thanks gents

The replacement motor had the flex plate on it when it was purchased but no flywheel, the motor that was taken out had the gearbox housing unbolted and the motor pulled out.

The flywheel was taken of the old broken motor and bolted on the new replacement motor, so I am getting a sort of sinking feeling here.......

[d4dozer38]

When your engine was out, you should have seen this. This is a TB45E auto trans with the torque converter in place.
When the engine goes back in, that torque converter needs to be bolted back onto the flexplate.
Did you unbolt the torque converter before removing the engine?
...
Thanks for that photo, its a great help. I may have the terminology wrong. Perhaps what I have been calling the flywheel is in fact the flex pate. My son did the disassembly when I was not present. but it seems very likely that the torque converter has not been bolted onto the flex plate.

For clarity then, the flex plate has the starter motor ring gear running around the outside?

thanks again

[jff45]

In the pic I posted earlier you can see the torque converter in the bellhousing. Is this what you're referring to as the "flywheel"?

If you removed the engine with the torque converter still attached to the flexplate and then re-attached that torque converter to the replacement engine before bolting it to the transmission, it's more then likely that you have damaged the oil pump in the transmission.
This will mean you'll need to have the transmission removed and dismantled. It will require a replacement oil pump but the rest will need to be dismantled to remove any pieces of metal in there. This includes the valve body.
Depending on the age of the transmission, it might be better to have it rebuilt.

If it's any consolation, you're not the first non-mechanic to have made that mistake..

[d4dozer38]

In the pic I posted earlier you can see the torque converter in the bellhousing. Is this what you're referring to as the "flywheel"?

If you removed the engine with the torque converter still attached to the flexplate and then re-attached that torque converter to the replacement engine before bolting it to the transmission, it's more then likely that you have damaged the oil pump in the transmission.
This will mean you'll need to have the transmission removed and dismantled. It will require a replacement oil pump but the rest will need to be dismantled to remove any pieces of metal in there. This includes the valve body.
Depending on the age of the transmission, it might be better to have it rebuilt.

If it's any consolation, you're not the first non-mechanic to have made that mistake..

Well I think you have hit the nail on the head.................

I spoke to my son who confirmed that was how the engine was removed and that the torque converter was bolted on before the engine went back.

I think we should unbolt the torque converter the "proper way" to drop the gearbox and inspect for damage. I assume it will be much easier to drop the gearbox with the converter removed. Does anyone know the quantity of oil that should be in these gear boxes if completely emptied?

cheers

[jff45]

If you look at the rear of the engine on the left hand side you'll see an oval plate held on by 2 bolts. That's the opening that gives you access to the torque converter bolts.

[d4dozer38]

Should I be looking for anything in particular when I drop the gearbox? Or will I see nothing out of the ordinary?

[jff45]

You won't see the damage without removing the Torque converter. You'll probably see the damaged seal then.
You won't be able to check the oil pump without removing the bellhousing so it's probably a good idea at that point to get a verdict from a transmission shop.

If it's not a high mileage trans, an oil pump can be replaced but the labor to strip and clean it all might make a good secondhand trans a better option.