What a load of......

[Maxhead]

I think I've seen it all, what a load of crap.
This kind of propaganda isn't helping anybody at all. I don't really know what the're trying to achieve writing crap like this.

http://www.news.com.au/national/kidsafe-australia-urges-drivers-to-abandon-4wd-vehicles-after-series-of-driveway-deaths/story-e6frfkvr-1226032217337

[growler2058]

With ya absolute croc of sh1t. Reported and investigated by an ameteur, missinformed stuffwit

[NissanGQ4.2]

what a load of sh!t, station wagons are no safer than 4wdrives and sedans are no more safer than station wagons / 4wdrives, maybe parents should be more aware of where their kids are rather than a group blaming the car / 4wd they drive. I reckon 4wdrive owners are more likely 2 install a reversing camera than a sedan / station wagon owner, I would really love 2 see figures on these sort of accidents.

[molongmick]

With ya absolute croc of sh1t. Reported and investigated by an ameteur, missinformed stuffwit

x2 it is this sort of biased cr@p that gives the four wheel drive vehicles a bad wrap, as it suggests, keep the kids away from the cars, it is as simple as that.

[growler2058]

Ban WRX's as well cause if an Audi's a 4WD so's a subarurex

[Sir Roofy]

with ya absolute croc of sh1t. Reported and investigated by an ameteur, missinformed stuffwit

it has and always will be the parents responsabilty to know where there child children are
dont get i n or move the car till you see that the kids are safely secured by another person
there was no mention of this

[NissanGQ4.2]

All i can say other than what i have already said is........ its stupid words coming from stupid people....... I guess it was over a year ago now when they where pushing for no more than a 50mm lift Total 4 four wheel drives, regardless of an engineers certificate..... I was speaking 2 my ex neighbor that worked for the the RTA ( in NSW ) in technical and he said quote " there was no data to support that a lifted ( modified ) 4wd was any more / less dangerous than any other standard car / 4wd, all it was was the pedestrian safety committee was on a war path @ the time.......I had some words after this but thought i better delete as it may not of passed the family friendly forum. Kris what have you done......I'm on a war path now!!!!!

[Maxhead]

I always goes back to the same argument...It's nor cars that kill people , its's people that kill people.
Just like the gun debate....but thats for another day!

[Woof]

it has and always will be the parents responsabilty to know where there child children are
dont get i n or move the car till you see that the kids are safely secured by another person
there was no mention of this

Yep totally agree with you there Roofy, some people are in just too much of a rush (and I will say this) they just don't think/worry about where their kids are until it's too late.
The kids that are injured or worse are not hurt by the vehicle no matter if it is a 4WD or a Mini, it is the driver who is responsible for the injuries in every case.

[NissanGQ4.2]

I always goes back to the same argument...It's nor cars that kill people , its's people that kill people.
Just like the gun debate....but thats for another day!

I agree 100% Kris, hit the nail on the head with that post. Cars / guns and anything other don't kill people.....people kill people......well said Kris

[Sir Roofy]

The y generation and otheres need to slow down ,it rush rush rush,they,ll get there in the end and know injureys or fatalitys

[NissanGQ4.2]

The y generation and otheres need to slow down ,it rush rush rush,they,ll get there in the end and know injureys or fatalitys
hey wait a minute...... think I'm a Y gen, no need 2 slow down, the government should just spend my tax dollars on better roads, why can other countries have auto barns yet i have 2 travel at 110kph max, i don't 100% agree that slowing down saves lives either, a lot of things comes in 2 the equation. My local council decided 2 close a road down because a rock fell onto the it during some heavy rain, its been closed for around 10 months now.......why i don't know...they say they want 2 so some survey thing 2 make sure no more rocks will fall on the road.... how long does that take.... i don't really care..... i want the road re-opened . the only way rocks will not fall onto the road is if the council / government do there job properly in the first place. Sorry think I'm straying off topic and just having a whinge!!!!!

[frenzy]

I'm gonna put this one down as another April fools joke.....

[Sir Roofy]

Hey todd i meant that if they looked for the kids first an formost
be fore they got in there vehicles,as for your council it has no money just like mine
because the ceo,s get paid to much and theres not much left for works to be done

[NissanGQ4.2]

Hey todd i meant that if they looked for the kids first an formost be fore they got in there vehicles,as for your council it has no money just like mine
because the ceo,s get paid to much and theres not much left for works to be done

know what u mean mate, I'm a parent 2 2 young kids and i find it stupid and irresponsible for a parent not 2 know where the kids are at all times.... esp a driveway!!!! But thats just me

[YNOT]

So what they seem to be saying is that over the last eleven years an average of 1.1 children per year have been killed by a 4WD in the driveway and that is sufficient justification to abandon 4WD's! Get real.
My wife and I have 2 young kids but we don't use my 4WD as the family car, we have a Falcon wagon for those duties. I am meant to believe that because we use the Falcon instead of the Patrol that our kids are somehow safer?
It scares the hell out of me whenever I move my Patrol or Terrano around the back yard and the kids are around. If the kids are in the yard I gather them up and throw them in the car with me so I know exactly where they are, it might take a bit longer but it's worth it to know they are safe. My wife and I are just as careful when we move the Falcon.

As said above, 4WD's don't kill people, people kill people.

Tony

[AB]

Great responses all round and 100% agree.

I really dont see how any other car is safer in the driveway....I have less blind spots in the GQ then I have in the VT and VY commodore and as rude as this sounds a ford laser will hurt/kill a toddler as much as a 4wd will at the end of the day.

In fact, the VT has the most rear blind spot vehicle that I have ever driven....

[Finly Owner]

My post in that link:
What a simplistic view! The reason more deaths are occurring is due to both parents under more pressure to work. Both parents are now leaving for work at the same time, and one if not both are wrangling kids to day care, school etc at the same time of day now. Years ago 1 car family had more Mums at home with child safely in the house while Dad left for work instead of Mum,Dad and Kids on driveway piling into vehicle running to tight schedule.
There is also I believe a need for people to walk around the vehicle before jumping in and driving off, who knows what the kids have left under the wheel.
FOUR WHEEL DRIVES ARE NOT KILLING KIDS! INNATENTIVE DRIVERS OF VEHICLES ARE!!
Come on people take blame for your action, and stop pointing at the minority group. Yes there are people driving 4WD beleiving they are safe inside one, but whose fault is that?
What ever happenned to the saying "Do you know where your children are?"
How many of these pen pushers put their families at risk in Hatches(rice bubbles). Unaware of the death trap they own when involved in a collision with a sedan?

My final thoughts stick to facts not statistics

[DX grunt]

If the article is true, Toyota is to be applauded to include reverse cameras and sensors in its entire range.

I believe it should be a phased in legislatively, that all 4wd's, and, in fact, all commercial vehicles, be fitted with reverse cameras, sensors and beepers - that work.
And for those mentioned 2nd hand vehicles, it should be a condition of sale - private and from a car yard, that 'working' reverse cameras, sensors and beepers are fitted and operating correctly,
AND, it should be a check/tick task for the vehicle examiners to check all vehicles that go over the pits that these items are fitted and working correctly.

I think it should be a condition of obtaining a 5 star ANCAP Rating, that reversing cameras, sensors and beepers is a requirement to attain this Rating.

If people are serious about this subject, they need to lobby vehicle manufacturers and their politicians to make this happen.

When my kids were young, I used to make sure ALL of them were standing at the front of my car, before I reversed - so I knew exactly where they were. I know how fast kids can be, no matter how vigilant parents are. My kid was sitting in the front seat next to me in our old Tarago, and I was under brakes to stop, and was just about stationary, when my kid unclipped his seat belt and opened the door. I had to brake or I would have hit a tree. I ran over his foot. Thankfully, he wasn't injured.

KidSafe do a very good job at protecting our kids and providing us with a lot of valuable information, but sadly, in this case, I think they've got it wrong - very wrong.

Here's a few websites that might interest you. The list is not exhaustive and further research may enlighten you further.

Australiasian New Car Assessment Program
http://www.ancap.com.au/home

Used cars
http://www.howsafeisyourcar.com.au/
http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/projects/crashworthiness.html

Take care out there.

Ross
DX grunt

[AB]

Nice Timbo and Rossco!!!

[Finly Owner]

Great responses all round and 100% agree.
I really dont see how any other car is safer in the driveway....I have less blind spots in the GQ then I have in the VT and VY commodore and as rude as this sounds a ford laser will hurt/kill a toddler as much as a 4wd will at the end of the day.

In fact, the VT has the most rear blind spot vehicle that I have ever driven....
And the Crewmans are even Deadlier!

[timbar]

Well then if we want to go down that path then we should bann all v8's and holdens and Fords and all the small car cause they have more statistics of fatal crashes on Australia's roads than any other cars but i can almost gaurentee that my family will be much safer in a 4wd than they would be in a hyundai or like cars and change laws with 6cyl and v8's make them the same as motorbike laws if they want to change any laws there are too many 17yr olds in big v8's killing themselves on the roads and so what (no disrespect intended)13 children killed in driveway acceidents all because of 4wd's????? i think NOT ..... hows about maybe the parents should know where there kids are when they are moving their cars in the drive way or teach their kids better so they know not to play in the driveways or roads they have gardens and parks for children to play in so c'mon ......This sort of stuff gets up my nose and this needs to stop bloody blame the 4wds pfffffffft i say be better parents !!!!!

IM OVER IT !!!!

[trollman]

It just does not make sense, considering the amount of kids getting a school bus and only one driver to keep an eye out for all those kids on the bus plus others. 4wds are Just the easy target, the easy option.

[ute351]

Great responses all round and 100% agree.

I really dont see how any other car is safer in the driveway....I have less blind spots in the GQ then I have in the VT and VY commodore and as rude as this sounds a ford laser will hurt/kill a toddler as much as a 4wd will at the end of the day.

In fact, the VT has the most rear blind spot vehicle that I have ever driven....

Reminds me of the bullbar being unsafe for pedestrians argument. If the bullbar's not going to inflict injury, I'm pretty sure the 2.5 tonne vehicle attached to it will, bullbar or not! But even a 900kg Festiva can be just as deadly, it's simply a matter of mass and an 80kg adult or 10kg child is simply no match for the weight and force of ANY kind of car...

[Bob]

I am all for making things safer but there seems to be a culture today of not taking responsibilty for one's own actions and legislating to stop us killing ourselves.
It would be better to educate people to be more responsible

[Bigrig]

I am all for making things safer but there seems to be a culture today of not taking responsibilty for one's own actions and legislating to stop us killing ourselves.
It would be better to educate people to be more responsible

I've stayed quiet on this one for a reason - but you're spot on Bob - "education, not legislation" ... we live in a democracy apparently the last I checked.

[wildgu6]

Blame the car, Blame the speed, Blame the alcohol, Blame this Blame that, How about Blame the cause, THE PARENTS AND OR THE DRIVER not the vehicle they are driving.
When it comes to kids I blame the parents not the vehicle, At that age the parents should be vigilant with their kids. Damn sure I am around kids. for F**** sake it could of been a VW they were driving, then what we squash the beetle... People trying to justify their jobs thats all, what a load of hogwash

[Bigrig]

Make people responsible for their own actions?
Cant do that might offend someone.

Good call Rosscoe - wouldn't want to upset the minority groups out there would we? God forbid!! LOL

[Sir Roofy]

make people responsible for their own actions?
Cant do that might offend someone.

thats the whole trouble with the population these days nobody has balls to stand up for the crap thats happening
those that try get shouted down

[Bigrig]

thats the whole trouble with the population these days nobody has balls to stand up for the crap thats happening
those that try get shouted down

SHUT UP ROOFY!! WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY!!

ROFLMFAO!!!

Is that what you mean?? lol

[Sir Roofy]

shut up roofy!! We don't care what you have to say!!

Roflmfao!!!

Is that what you mean?? Lol

you got it in one mate thats what i mean lol

[Bigrig]

you got it in one mate thats what i mean lol

And people say I'm slow!! LOL

[growler2058]

thats the whole trouble with the population these days nobody has balls to stand up for the crap thats happening
those that try get shouted down

Google the comments made by a South Australian Mayor of Pt. Augusta now this shielas got BIG BALLS

[Bigrig]

Google the comments made by a South Australian Mayor of Pt. Augusta now this shielas got BIG BALLS

Which comment?? She's a loaded gun on most topics!!! Bless her!! LOL

[growler2058]

Which comment?? She's a loaded gun on most topics!!! Bless her!! LOL

Mate at risk of a hijack Ive heard her talk at a surf life saving carnival over there....... yeah yeah what surf, but she has got the best interests of the town in mind.

The latest comments about releasing the dogs on trouble makers has rattled some cages though, and everyone takes her comments as they will. But if we could get a shiela like this to speak up about 4wd rubbish i dont rekon any of the do gooders out there the pedestrian association or what ever the anti 4wd club calls themselves woul have the kahoonas to stand upto her. hahahahahhahahahahaha

[Bigrig]

Mate at risk of a hijack Ive heard her talk at a surf life saving carnival over there....... yeah yeah what surf, but she has got the best interests of the town in mind.

The latest comments about releasing the dogs on trouble makers has rattled some cages though, and everyone takes her comments as they will. But if we could get a shiela like this to speak up about 4wd rubbish i dont rekon any of the do gooders out there the pedestrian association or what ever the anti 4wd club calls themselves woul have the kahoonas to stand upto her. hahahahahhahahahahaha

Too true!!

[Sir Roofy]

Google the comments made by a South Australian Mayor of Pt. Augusta now this shielas got BIG BALLS
the devils own sister in looks,but mate she,d make one hell of a priminister
balls as big as a brumby stallion

[growler2058]

the devils own sister in looks,but mate she,d make one hell of a priminister
balls as big as a brumby stallion

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH head like a pitbull sucking on a wasp!!!!

[Sir Roofy]

yep like that one

[hekarewe]

a few years a go the NRMA did a blind spot test,,,,, the worst offender was a commodore station wagon the NRMA had to admit that on average 4wd's had better vission and small black spots behind them then most family wagons.

[Bigrig]

a few years a go the NRMA did a blind spot test,,,,, the worst offender was a commodore station wagon the NRMA had to admit that on average 4wd's had better vission and small black spots behind them then most family wagons.

Check out some on the list that received zero stars!!

http://www.caradvice.com.au/89894/nrma-reversing-visibility-test-results/

Let's ban all of them also!!!

The full report is on the main website.

[HippoNZ]

what happend to the days of common sense??? Once a pon a time if you fel over it was from your own fault. If parents taught a bit of this maybe there kids would figure out not to playing behind moving cars, oh hang on it was the 4wd's fault, i forgot...... wat a big fat slab of shit that is!

[Bigrig]

What frustrates me most, is the cars that got 5 stars (bugger all in proportion to the number tested), are mostly those with reverse cameras as standard (and with an average price tag of $50-60K plus - noting that some vehicles with a much higher price tag got no stars or half a star, etc). Now yell at me if you must, but I was taught to use my mirrors and eyes when reversing and as such, it is inherent in my nature that watching a tv screen to reverse is not considered natural. To add to that, I apparently now have to have a rear view mirror, two side mirrors, natural blind spots that I need to actually look out the windows to see clearly, and a reversing camera to contend with also! These are not boeing 747's here people - it's a car ... and I will guarantee that if the culture paradigm shifts to watching a small tv screen to reverse, then sure, we may (I repeat, MAY) see a reduction in driveway fatalities, but as sure as the sun will set in the west, we will see an increase in minor and potentially major accidents as people side swipe cars, poles, trees etc as they use their eyes less and technology more. Not to mention the potential for being t-boned when reversing out as you are watching a tv screen and not the road you are reversing onto.

Am I being dramatic - probably. But do I have sound logic and science behind me to back up my claims - probably just as much as these left wing freaks do to justify targeting 4wd's.

Oh, and let us all remember, it is STILL a by-law (council) in most areas that it is "not permissible to reverse out of ones driveway" - an irrelevant and outdated regulation from years gone by that has obviously never been revisited. Ridiculous? Absolutely. But unable to be policed for sheer number of people who must do this to get in and out of their property.

To finish up, there is an existing by-law in California that stands to this day and it states;

"should two trains meet at an intersecting section of track, neither train shall advance until the other has passed" ... no sh!t!! Sound similar to this argument?? Bound by stupidity, and certain to stay in stalemate until someone has the good sense and logic to approach it realistically in light of the current road infrastructure, vehicle cost and capability, and cultural aspects that are part of every day Australian life (not Europe, not the US, not Asia, etc).

p.s. I'm not suggesting cameras don't have their place and are a good bit of safety kit - but how many aids do we have to add before we acknowledge those shiny round things either side of the top of our noses?

Rant complete!!!

[Spock]

Woow, nice rant. Couldn't agree more.

[Finly Owner]

What frustrates me most, is the cars that got 5 stars (bugger all in proportion to the number tested), are mostly those with reverse cameras as standard (and with an average price tag of $50-60K plus - noting that some vehicles with a much higher price tag got no stars or half a star, etc). Now yell at me if you must, but I was taught to use my mirrors and eyes when reversing and as such, it is inherent in my nature that watching a tv screen to reverse is not considered natural. To add to that, I apparently now have to have a rear view mirror, two side mirrors, natural blind spots that I need to actually look out the windows to see clearly, and a reversing camera to contend with also! These are not boeing 747's here people - it's a car ... and I will guarantee that if the culture paradigm shifts to watching a small tv screen to reverse, then sure, we may (I repeat, MAY) see a reduction in driveway fatalities, but as sure as the sun will set in the west, we will see an increase in minor and potentially major accidents as people side swipe cars, poles, trees etc as they use their eyes less and technology more. Not to mention the potential for being t-boned when reversing out as you are watching a tv screen and not the road you are reversing onto.

Am I being dramatic - probably. But do I have sound logic and science behind me to back up my claims - probably just as much as these left wing freaks do to justify targeting 4wd's.

Oh, and let us all remember, it is STILL a by-law (council) in most areas that it is "not permissible to reverse out of ones driveway" - an irrelevant and outdated regulation from years gone by that has obviously never been revisited. Ridiculous? Absolutely. But unable to be policed for sheer number of people who must do this to get in and out of their property.

To finish up, there is an existing by-law in California that stands to this day and it states;

"should two trains meet at an intersecting section of track, neither train shall advance until the other has passed" ... no sh!t!! Sound similar to this argument?? Bound by stupidity, and certain to stay in stalemate until someone has the good sense and logic to approach it realistically in light of the current road infrastructure, vehicle cost and capability, and cultural aspects that are part of every day Australian life (not Europe, not the US, not Asia, etc).

p.s. I'm not suggesting cameras don't have their place and are a good bit of safety kit - but how many aids do we have to add before we acknowledge those shiny round things either side of the top of our noses?

Rant complete!!!

Well said Scott, and I agree 100%. California is twisted ain't it?