Broken down, again!

[dpetersen]

G'day guys!
Really sorry to start a new thread but need some quick help.
So basically I'm at Oodnadatta and for the last 150ks the car has been having major issues. It's like it's running out of fuel. Can't get the revs up as they keep dropping down so crawled into Oodnadatta doing about 50ks an hour for the last 150ks.
Engine light came on once then went away.
Had the motor rebuilt about 6000ks ago and apart from using oil the last 2000ks it's been driving great, and Threedogs has given me abit of help with the oil usage.
My only guess is something to do with the fuel line? Any advice would be great, have limited wifi here and no phone signal.
Drove from Leigh creek this morning and can't recommend the track highly enough! Just this little issue has me stuck at the moment!

[Rossco]

Hi mate, that really sux - very annoying. What engine is it, but more info will help? Does sound fuel related possibly air getting in. Check all lines for damage and all clamps. Dodgy fuel or water in it maybe. Drain the tap on the filter or pump some through and see how it looks.
The oonadatta is a bloody good drive, hopefully you can get it sorted.

[Sir Roofy]

Might be air getting in could also be dirty filter corrigations might have shook up some crap in the fuel tank
if your a 3l check the maf and intercooler hoses

[dpetersen]

Yeah it's a 2003 zd 3l.
I changed the MAF sencor about 10000ks ago so don't think it's that.
A bloke at the pub said there's been a few people that have had the same problem and turned out to be air in the fuel line.
What's the best way to check it?
I gave the pump on top of the fuel filter two quick pumps. It's really easy to push down, is it mean to be hard? And if there is air in it do I have to take a hose off or something to get the air out while I pump it?

[Rossco]

Should be fairly firm to push down, keep on pumping it and see what it does. You can open the drain tap at the bottom or any hose on the outlet side, see if it's flowing good or has air bubbles coming through. Not sure on the 3L but most injector pumps usually have a bleeder you can crack.

[Brad_GU9]

Long shot, but had a similar issue a few years back in my original 3L patrol. Underneath the intercooler there is a vacuum controlled shut-off valve. It is held open by a little metal clip unless the ignition is turned off which is when the valve closes, starves the engine of air and causes the engine to shut down. If the clip comes loose or drops off due to the corregations it will allow the shut off valve to move freely inside the air intake starving the engine of air in various stages. A typical sign is when you hit a dip in the road the engine will have a little moment when it appears to be starving for fuel when in fact its starving for air as the flap inside the shut off valve has actually partially closed then opened again.

Try blowing some compressed air back up the air intake to force the valve to open fully and see if that fixes your issue. With the valve open fully the engine should run perfectly. If it does for a bit then the problem occurs again ( which could be some days later ) this little $5 clip could be your issue. Cheers Brad

[Brad_GU9]

I also agree with comments above, the primer on the top of the fuel filter should be quite firm, try taking the outlet hose off the filter, using a clean rag around an air gun to seal the fuel filler hole in the main diesel tank force some compressed air into the tank, this will pressurize the tank forcing diesel up the air line and through the filter. Do this for a bit until diesel and no air is flowing out of the filter, re-attach the fuel hose prime it ( should be firm ) and see if you have full pressure again at the filter.

[liftlid]

Mudrunnertd had a similar issue a couple of years ago, he found a crack in the hard line as it goes over the spring tower from stone damage and vibration

[mudski]

Have you cleaned the maf at all? Being on dirt, the maf cops a fair bit. It could be dirty or its just dead. New or not, its electrical. it can happen. You got a spare maf?

[Stropp]

yes sounds like air in the fuel line as others have said it should be hard to pump, you may have to crack an injector to get rid of the air.

[threedogs]

X 3 check along the fuel line especially as mentioned in the wheel arch area.
Fuel line is cheap enough

[dpetersen]

Checked fuel filter and re primed, didn't do anything.
Took the fuel cap off and heaps of air came out, ran better but still no good.
Check MAF all good.
Checked fault codes with paper clip and got 0505 (no fault).
Going to call racv and get a tow, hopefully to Alice. Not in a good mindset now, especially after spending around $10000 having the thing rebuilt, and sposed to be back at kings canyon Friday afternoon to start work on Saturday.
Will more or less be offloading it as soon as I can, only had it 7 months and have never even been able to get more then 2000ks without something else going wrong. Really disappointed and frustrated.

[Winnie]

Did air definitely come out of the tank or could it have been sucking air in when you released the cap?

[Sir Roofy]

Heres a long shot then is the tank breather not covered in dirt from spilt fuel

[dpetersen]

Na it defiantly pushed air out. I gave it a run with the fuel caps off and was a little better but still not good. Had a look at the fuel lines and they looked all good. Spoke with racv, getting it towed to mechanic in coober pedy and will work it out from there. Will let you know when I find out what's wrong with it.
Thanks for all the help guys.

[dpetersen]

Also just for anyone who doesn't already know, Nissan are useless.
Spoke with a tech and the only advise he could give was "just get it towed", tried explaining how remote I am and how expensive it is and if he could give me any advise on anything else I could check but no "get it towed" was the only advise he gave.

[Winnie]

Good luck in Coober Pedy and it is a shame that you have had to go through this.
Definitely sounds like an issue with fuel supply though.

[threedogs]

I towed [rope] a VW from Pootanoo crossing to Alice.
Pootanoo is where the railway line crosses the Stuart Hwy
Sth of Mt willoughby roadhouse, was not fun at all
Get them to go over the fuel lines, one may be put on wrong
But air is getting in somehow

[Hodge]

When it was rebuilt, was the pump refurbished / replaced? This could may well be the pump not being able to keep up ?

[Cuppa]

I expect it’ll be Bulls Garage in Coober Pedy. They’ll get you going again ...... but it may take more time than you are expecting if vehicle specific parts need replacing, so fingers crossed it’s something fixable with what they have on hand. I had to get a water pump in our bus replaced by them. They freighted a pump from a Nissan dealer in in Melbourne costing me over $700 + fitting. I later bought a new spare in Perth (albeit an aftermarket one) for $200. That little episode saw us in Coober Pedy for a week (but it was a great week!) I hope things move more quickly for you, but thought I’d prepare you for the possibility of a further wait.

[dpetersen]

http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2015/08/107.jpg
Photo of the car on the truck.
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2015/08/108.jpg
http://www.nissanpatrol.com.au/forums/images/imported/2015/08/109.jpg
Lake Eyre from Halligan bay
Na they didn't touch the pump when they re built it hodge.


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[dpetersen]

Whether you’re in a metropolitan or a country area, Total Care will provide the first 100km of towing, in any direction, free of charge. In country areas, unlimited towing to the attending RACV Service Centre.

^^ that's what it says on the racv website,
I have total care with racv, does that mean the tow from Oodnadatta to coober pedy is free?

[Cuppa]

Yes, I was going to post earlier about the $221 for RACV Total Care seeming cheap in the circumstances, but restrained myself thinking to do so would be mean, but seeings you have it you should be laughing (as much as you can in such circumstances). They will also pay for your accommodation whilst things get fixed. I’ve used it a couple of times & found their service excellent. Get on to them asap.

[Winnie]

My boss had his ZD30 explode somewhere outback WA, RACV towed it back home to Warragul (with camper trailer), put his family up in accommodation for a few days in WA, then flew them all home (dog included) to Melbourne and a taxi back to Warragul.
It's pretty cheap insurance if something bad happened.

[dpetersen]

Spoke with the racv this morning and they've been great.
Had the car checked out and its something to do with the fuel. Looks like the timing or something along those line. I think it might have something to do with the motor being rebuilt and the pump not being able to keep up with it, not 100% sure though.
At this stage it the mechanic here had said they can't fix it so will probably get towed to country diesel in Alice.
Will hopefully get it fixed up there.
Im at the stage where iv spent so much money on it that I can't afford to get rid of it. While its at country diesel will try to get a price on gets nads put in, seeing as it's only been 7000ks since the rebuild hopefully no damage has been done.

[Stropp]

Spoke with the racv this morning and they've been great.
Had the car checked out and its something to do with the fuel. Looks like the timing or something along those line. I think it might have something to do with the motor being rebuilt and the pump not being able to keep up with it, not 100% sure though.
At this stage it the mechanic here had said they can't fix it so will probably get towed to country diesel in Alice.
Will hopefully get it fixed up there.
Im at the stage where iv spent so much money on it that I can't afford to get rid of it. While its at country diesel will try to get a price on gets nads put in, seeing as it's only been 7000ks since the rebuild hopefully no damage has been done.

thats a real shame mate, i hope they can get things sorted for you at a reasonable cost, good luck.

[Cuppa]

Good luck in Alice, believe me I know how stressful these sorts of things can be.
Please let us know what the issue turns out to be. Given that you’ve successfully managed to drive the vehicle 7000kms since the rebuild I am puzzled by thoughts that it might be the pump timing unless it’s run increasingly like a dog for those 7000kms. I suppose it is possible that the pump is knackered & has gradually become worse - the outcome if that were so could be expensive - I was quoted around $2k for a fuel pump rebuild a few years ago - fingers crossed it’s not that. Maybe injectors? Were they new during the rebuild? Anyway you are on the right road to getting it sorted now. Hopefully your employer at Kings Canyon will be understanding of your predicament. Good luck.

[Sir Roofy]

Hope it works out for you mate fingers X its not as bad as you think

[Hodge]

Hope it all works out reasonably mate. Mudskis pump died and he was quoted $3k plus for a reco. Unit I hope it doesn't turn out so ....

[mudski]

Hope it all works out reasonably mate. Mudskis pump died and he was quoted $3k plus for a reco. Unit I hope it doesn't turn out so ....
4.5k was the cheapest quote i actually got.

[threedogs]

Just PM me if you think you can get things cheaper at this end or you need me to source a part
For a minute I thought you were towing Mudski Patrol around the Outback lol

[dpetersen]

Thanks heaps guys for the advice and offers to help with everything. Just got into Alice, car is going to country diesel and will get checked out Monday, will keep you all posted!
Thanks again guys

[Woof]

Hope all turns out well for you Daniel

[mudski]

Good luck mate...
Speaking of RACV, i only got Racv total care last January. Since then i have used their towing service three times. Prior to that, never had the need for it. Lol.

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[jay see]

A tip on RACV.
Nominate your partners car and have the membership in your name. That way whatever you drive is covered and whoever drives the other vehicle is as covered.

[Cuppa]

A tip on RACV.
Nominate your partners car and have the membership in your name. That way whatever you drive is covered and whoever drives the other vehicle is as covered.


Good advice - that’s the way we do it.

[mudski]

A tip on RACV.
Nominate your partners car and have the membership in your name. That way whatever you drive is covered and whoever drives the other vehicle is as covered.
We got both cars under the one thingo'. Im sure both of us are covered as drivers too.

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[jay see]

We got both cars under the one thingo'. Im sure both of us are covered as drivers too.

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Didn't know that you can nominate more than one vehicle

Sorry for the hijack.

[mudski]

Didn't know that you can nominate more than one vehicle

Sorry for the hijack.
Yeah we got two on ours. Maybe we paid extra, dunno.

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[dpetersen]

A tip on RACV.
Nominate your partners car and have the membership in your name. That way whatever you drive is covered and whoever drives the other vehicle is as covered.

Sounds good, just need to find a partner first lol

[dpetersen]

So just a note on the racv situation;
Because I'm under 25 (by three months), I'm "not aloud" to hire a 4wd.
So I've been given a ute which means I can only take the bitumen to kings canyon, 470ks each way. Racv will only cover 100ks per day so iv got to pay excess kilometers of 670ks @ .30 cents per k.
Not impressed.

[MudRunnerTD]

Hmmmmmmm! Just catching up on this thread mate, sorry I have not looked at it until now.

So I reckon you were mistaken when you thought the air rushed out of your cap? That would mean your tank was pressurized and your cap would want to burst out at you. On the basis that you are using fuel your tank will actually depressurize as the level goes down to create vacuum in the tank. The breather is ther to let air in and reduce the drag off the back of the pump.

The pump draws from the tank via a vacuum too so if there is too much vacuum in the tank it can restrict the pump. The big whooosh you heard was almost certainly air going In.

If your primer was soft then you have no prime and you have air getting into your fuel line between your filter and the tank. That line is what you are actually priming! 1 line only.

Is it drivable at all? I recommend going to the fuel station and filling your fuel tank to the Brim. All the way. Prime the pump then drive the car and park it in the sun. With the tank full the tank will want to expand with the heat of the sun and if you have a split fuel line somewhere (my guess) then it will present as a leak. And the moment it is leaking air In as the tank vacuum is dragging it in. With the tank full it will reverse the problem.

Took me 6 months to find mine and I was a week away from spending $3000 on a pump rebuild which would not have fixed my problem.

Mine was a stone on top of the drivers side rear spring coil tower cap wore a split in the steel fuel line. I cut the fuel line both sides of the tower cap and replaced it with flexible fuel line.

[4bye4]

Is it possible that the original thought was correct and the tank can't breath? After a while the lift pump would not be able to keep up with the injector pumps requirements?

[MudRunnerTD]

Is it possible that the original thought was correct and the tank can't breath? After a while the lift pump would not be able to keep up with the injector pumps requirements?

Yes that would create Vacuum in the main tank. Taking the cap off though would "reset" the problem and it would immediately disappear for another few hundred kms then slowly get worse again.

[Cuppa]

So just a note on the racv situation;
Because I'm under 25 (by three months), I'm "not aloud" to hire a 4wd.
So I've been given a ute which means I can only take the bitumen to kings canyon, 470ks each way. Racv will only cover 100ks per day so iv got to pay excess kilometers of 670ks @ .30 cents per k.
Not impressed.


Mate I reckon that’s a bit harsh. A couple of days ago you were stressed out in the middle of nowhere. Now you’ve had the car towed to help & been given a hire car allowing you to start your new job. Having to pay for fuel is small fry compared to the situation you thought you were in.

And fwiw, I suspect Mudrunner is on the money, which could save you a lot more.

[dpetersen]

Hmmmmmmm! Just catching up on this thread mate, sorry I have not looked at it until now.

So I reckon you were mistaken when you thought the air rushed out of your cap? That would mean your tank was pressurized and your cap would want to burst out at you. On the basis that you are using fuel your tank will actually depressurize as the level goes down to create vacuum in the tank. The breather is ther to let air in and reduce the drag off the back of the pump.

The pump draws from the tank via a vacuum too so if there is too much vacuum in the tank it can restrict the pump. The big whooosh you heard was almost certainly air going In.

If your primer was soft then you have no prime and you have air getting into your fuel line between your filter and the tank. That line is what you are actually priming! 1 line only.

Is it drivable at all? I recommend going to the fuel station and filling your fuel tank to the Brim. All the way. Prime the pump then drive the car and park it in the sun. With the tank full the tank will want to expand with the heat of the sun and if you have a split fuel line somewhere (my guess) then it will present as a leak. And the moment it is leaking air In as the tank vacuum is dragging it in. With the tank full it will reverse the problem.

Took me 6 months to find mine and I was a week away from spending $3000 on a pump rebuild which would not have fixed my problem.

Mine was a stone on top of the drivers side rear spring coil tower cap wore a split in the steel fuel line. I cut the fuel line both sides of the tower cap and replaced it with flexible fuel line.

Thanks for the advice, hopefully that's all it is! Will word the mechanic up on that!
It idles no worries at all and is drivable but only at below 2000 revs and struggles abit with that.
I took it to country diesel in Alice and they're gonna check it out on Tuesday.
I'm thinking while its there I might as well invest in a nads kit,
This is what I'm thinking so far;
Dawes and needle valve, block egr, pyro gauges and a new intercooler as mine has a small leak. Hoping it will save me a few dollars down the line.
To make things just that little bit worse I new the battery was on the way out but of course it died this morning before I could get it to the mechanic so that was another $200.
I guess at the end of the day it is what it is, will find out what's wrong with it and get it fixed up.
Iv spend a lot of money on it so iv gotta keep it now. I really do love the car when it's going, it's just that it's always not going!

[MudRunnerTD]

So just a note on the racv situation;
Because I'm under 25 (by three months), I'm "not aloud" to hire a 4wd.
So I've been given a ute which means I can only take the bitumen to kings canyon, 470ks each way. Racv will only cover 100ks per day so iv got to pay excess kilometers of 670ks @ .30 cents per k.
Not impressed.

How long are you hiring the vehicle for? The 100kms a day compounds, if you hire the car a total of 5 days then you have an allowance of 500kms.

[dpetersen]

How long are you hiring the vehicle for? The 100kms a day compounds, if you hire the car a total of 5 days then you have an allowance of 500kms.

Racv only paid for two days and it's 470ks each way. Returned the hire car today so it was an extra $250 in excess ks but in the scheme of things that's pretty cheap for getting my car towed in Alice and getting all my stuff to kings so can't complain!

[threedogs]

You're just stressed atm sit down and write a list of things mentioned.
Im sure its not as bad as you think, Hopefully the mechanic can sort
it quickly for you,

[dpetersen]

So I'm a very happy man today, got good news on the patrol. Turns out it was just a split fuel line! $350 to repair and il be heading back into town next Friday to pick it up. Little bit annoyed for not finding the problem myself but what can you do!
While its in there still pretty keen on getting the Dawes and needle set up done and the mechanic in Alice said his done a few of them and will get back to me on with a quote. He said if I can get some of the gear out of Melbourne cheaper his happy to install it for me too. So basically just a question for you guys that have had it done, what should I expect to pay for the following;
-dawes and needle valve,
-egr blank
-pyro gauges and pillar pod with boost gauge and egr gauge
-possibly intercooler repair or replace as it has a slight leak
I think that's all I need (already have a catch can)
Thanks again for all the help, really appreciated and sorry if my posts were all over the place, as you can imagine I was pretty stressed and had a lot on my mind and the car issues made it worse.
Thank you all for your support!

[MudRunnerTD]

Great news mate. Where was the split?

Mudski in our vendors section is your guy for all things NADS.

[Rossco]

Good news mate, glad it was nothing too serious. Yeah does suck when you look back and think i should have picked that up. Oh well at least it's all good now and not to bad with the $$$.

[Hodge]

. So basically just a question for you guys that have had it done, what should I expect to pay for the following;
-dawes and needle valve,
-egr blank
-pyro gauges and pillar pod with boost gauge and egr gauge
-possibly intercooler repair or replace as it has a slight leak
I think that's all I need (already have a catch can)
Thanks again for all the help, really appreciated and sorry if my posts were all over the place, as you can imagine I was pretty stressed and had a lot on my mind and the car issues made it worse.
Thank you all for your support!

Awesome news mate . happy outcome and didn't cost all that much in the grand scheme of things, apart from some nerves.

You can get all of those from Mudski. Just pm him.
I don't think he sells the gauges, pillar pods or intercooler. Gauges and pillars are off eBay you best bet.
As for the intercooler best to upgrade mate as the factory ones will just leak over and over again...
I had an exchange unit from diesel smart for about $400 and it was great.

[mudski]

Good to hear it was only that and not something more sinister.

I got one kit left mate. I will hold it for you...I have exhausted the suppliers stock of needle valves and the next shipment is end of September!
The kits consist of Dawes, needle valve, egr plate, a length of boost hose and instructions. Members price is $140 plus $12 post.

[Cuppa]

Excellent news. Don’t beat yourself up too much .... if it cost $350 to fix a split fuel line it must’ve taken the Alice mob a while to find it. Not really sure why they couldn’t have done the same in in Coober Pedy? Do you know where the leak was? Might be worthwhile replacing all critical hoses & lines given where you are. How’s the new job? (I’m envious of your location).

[dpetersen]

Not too sure where the split was, will find out when I get into town next Friday and let you guys know! Thanks again for all the support!


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[dpetersen]

Excellent news. Don’t beat yourself up too much .... if it cost $350 to fix a split fuel line it must’ve taken the Alice mob a while to find it. Not really sure why they couldn’t have done the same in in Coober Pedy? Do you know where the leak was? Might be worthwhile replacing all critical hoses & lines given where you are. How’s the new job? (I’m envious of your location).

Jobs pretty good thanks cuppa, my job tittle is essential services officer.
Basically it's just looking after all the power and water infrastructure for the resort and communities. Servicing generators, looking after the sewage treatment plant and testing the portable water. Pretty good job and very interesting


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[dpetersen]

Picked the car up Friday, the split fuel line was just before the filter. Very happy to have the car back. Took it home via the mereenie loop, about 120ks of bitumen and 200 of dirt. Starting to get hot out here, about 32 degrees most days. A few years ago we had 13 days strait over 43 and a top temp of 48.7 one day. Coolant temp sat around 92-98 degrees so getting abit warm so might look at a coolant change to something abit stronger. Spoke to diesel smart about getting a new intercooler so will get that done in the next few weeks then move on to the full nads setup. Attempting to quit smoking so need something to keep me busy while I'm not working lol. Thanks again for all the help guys and any other advise is much appreciated!