White smoke for too long!

[dom14]

Hey guys,

I just recorded below two videos to find out whether this is normal
Video is after 10 minutes of idling.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvHM6B74Y4k&feature=youtu.be


Idling rpm starts around 500 and gets to around 900 once it's warmed up enough.
It's an issue that I haven't sorted yet.
I'm suspecting carby needs a bit of a tune up.
The smoke appears to be water, initially, but when I was holding the paper onto exhaust end, it didn't look like lot of water.
There's are no water loss from the radiator into the combustion that I can see.
I did the combustion gas leak test at the radiator and it came out fine.

Funny thing is that, if I go around for a drive for 15 minutes or so, and warm it up properly and come back and leave on idling, it won't usually smoke like that.

Thanx for any advice.

[garett]

lpg creates more steam than petrol does, it happen on petrol or gas or both ?
when its cold outside my carby leaves a white smoke screen. nope no issues with engine /carby just lots of steam cos of the temp difference i guess

[dom14]

I haven't tested it on petrol yet. I will do that.
Thanx mate.

P.S. There's an oil blowing issue from the rocker cover gasket as well. There's too much pressure in there obviously.
I'm guessing there's a bit of blow-by caused by bad valve stem seals, than bottom end wear.
Hopefully it will go away after valve stem replacement.

[garett]

not sure but check rocker breather / pcv if they block up it will push the oil out

[mudnut]

The rocker cover seals on
the RB30 are a constant
source of annoyance.
The covers have to be
torqued down in a
sequence and not too
tight. Over time you
need to torque them
every once in a while.

[dom14]

not sure but check rocker breather / pcv if they block up it will push the oil out

I'll check the PCV again. But, I had this problem for over two years now(or since the beginning).
I checked and cleaned the PCV at one time and found it was in good nick.
But, it's about time and I'll do the PCV valve again, perhaps replace it anyway.

[dom14]

The rocker cover seals on
the RB30 are a constant
source of annoyance.
The covers have to be
torqued down in a
sequence and not too
tight. Over time you
need to torque them
every once in a while.

What is the bad outcome of tightening it too much?
ATM, to stop oil from seeping from the side of rocker cover(always from the back of it, near cylinder 5 and 6), I caked some gasket sealant and tightened the bolts after that.
That kept it from leaking from the side, but started after a while. It takes about two weeks or so for the oil leak to show up after an engine wash.
The reason I'm confused 'cos the compression test and leak down test came out fine.
Only thing that's probably not good are the valve stem seals, which I'm about to do now.
I would have to resort to a catch can, if the stem seal job doesn't fix it.

[mudnut]

If you tighten them too
much the cover can warp,
and you will never get a
good seal.

[dom14]

This is the video with cold petrol idling of around 5.6 minutes.
It's bit better with petrol than it was with LPG for sure.
Engine was fully warmed up by the time I took this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FuJ74sSdeI&feature=youtu.be

[dom14]

If you tighten them too
much the cover can warp,
and you will never get a
good seal.

They come with rubber washers.
I used silicon sealant between the both sides of the gasket.
So, I reckon the seal was good.
I reckon I have a blow-by issue from an unknown cause.
I will replace the PCV valve regardless of it passing my "blow test" on it.(I took the valve out and blew at it to make sure it's not stuck)

I'm assuming the valve stem seal leaks are contributing to excess blow by.
Am I right on that assumption, guys?!

Thanx

[dom14]

As you guys know, valve stem seals are PITA to do with head bolted on, but I won't have a choice.

I was hoping the head is stuffed, so I can pull it out and do the head and the head gasket, :1087: :D
That way I get to do the stem seals as well. :)
But, so far, the head and the head gasket have passed all the tests, including the combustion leak test.

[mudnut]

The main tell-tale sign
that the stem seals are
stuffed is a big pall of blue
smoke on start-up, even
when the engine is hot and
has been sitting for a while.

[dom14]

Hmmmm! Yeah, that's what confuse me.
That's usually when the engine is idling, right?
The idling smoke is what I posted in the above videos, which is more like white smoke.
It also goes away after going for a 10-15 minute drive.

I reckon I should replace PCV valve, rocker cover gasket and then replace the stem seals.

If all that doesn't fix the oil blowing issue and it is still keeps blowing oil, then I don't have much of a choice but a catch can??!!

[mudnut]

My slow data won't load
the videos. So how much oil is
it using? Mine chuffs
out white smoke
like crazy when warming up
and I'm lucky to top up
the oil once between each
service.

[dom14]

My slow data won't load
the videos. So how much oil is
it using? Mine chuffs
out white smoke
like crazy when warming up
and I'm lucky to top up
the oil once between each
service.

What happened to NBN they promised us mate?!! :D

So, are you saying you don't notice any oil loss in yours and no need to top up?

Mine doesn't lose oil either(as long as it's 20-50, it does tend to lose oil if I use 10-40 and do long high rev drives)

[mudnut]

The oil I usually use
is the 10w 40 penrite
and apart from the
Beachport trip, where
I gave the 30 a real
hard time, I have only
topped it up once.

[Patrol'n]

I replaced stem seals on one of my previous cars, the symptoms were that it would blow smoke on start up, a little whilst idling, and most when taking off after idling, for example waiting for lights to change, (Quite a bit of smoke), although it didn't use significant amounts of oil, not noticeable between oil changes anyway. Didn't smoke during normal running.

When I removed them the old ones fell apart, they were totally buggered. I did the job with the head on, removed the rockers, pushrods etc, (not OHC on that engine), removed all the plugs, fed soft rope down the spark plug hole then carefully hand turned the motor till it hit TDC or close to it to keep the valve in place and used a valve spring compressor to remove collets and springs one at a time, replace seal then reinstall springs and collets and removed the rope (made sure to keep plenty of rope out of the cylinder to avoid it dropping into the engine)... I've been told compressed air is better but if it failed then the valve would fall into the cylinder which I wanted to avoid. Reinstalled rocker arms etc and closed it up.

Fixed it first time round, only problem I had was trying to use a cheap spring compressor, which broke and a piece hit me in the face, bought a better one and the whole job took maybe 2 hours after that. Backyard mechanics, but it worked for me.

[dom14]

Thanx guys.
The smoke doesn't bother me much.
It's the blow-by oil from the rocker cover that annoys me.
Because of that, I have to wash the engine bay every three months or so.
I think the oil is getting into the clutch compartment as well.
It leaves quite a mess in the back half of the engine.
It's progressively getting worse.
So, either the bottom end is worn on at least in one of the cylinders(regardless of leak down test showing ok) or
the stem seals are completely stuffed.
PCV system is basically the PCV valve, isn't it?
There aren't any other parts of the PCV system that I need to service?!

Apart from above reasons, I can't think of anything else that can contribute to excess blow-by.

Any ideas??!!

[dom14]

The oil I usually use
is the 10w 40 penrite
and apart from the
Beachport trip, where
I gave the 30 a real
hard time, I have only
topped it up once.

Why are you using 10-40, instead of standard 20-50?
I found out 10-40 kinda cranks better when cold, but 'cos of the oil loss, I don't use it anymore.
So, I use 20-50 on all seasons now.

[Throbbinhood]

I use 10-30, as per the manual. I have no issues with it using oil.
I too get lots of white smoke on startup, but no coolant loss, or oil loss. Goes away once car is warmed properly.

Also had the rocker cover oil leak near cylinder 5/6, ended up just nipping up the bolts and that fixed that.

[dom14]

I use 10-30, as per the manual. I have no issues with it using oil.
I too get lots of white smoke on startup, but no coolant loss, or oil loss. Goes away once car is warmed properly.

Also had the rocker cover oil leak near cylinder 5/6, ended up just nipping up the bolts and that fixed that.

I thought the manual recommends 20-50?!
Yeah, I kept tightening the bolts near cylinder 5/6, which didn't work, then I used sealant which worked for a while then started giving away. There's definitely excess blow-by pressures under rocker cover(if the not the crank).
I think, this time I will find out the cause, once for all.

[mudnut]

The stem seals won't
cause much blow back
but worn valve guides
will. Or as you wrote
that worn rings will
too.

[dom14]

The stem seals won't
cause much blow back
but worn valve guides
will. Or as you wrote
that worn rings will
too.

Yeah, the logical conclusion must be the valve guides then.
If the leak down test conclusively clear the piston rings and the bore,
then the culprit must be valve guides.
It's my fault anyway. The cylinder head is a partially reconditioned one.

[Throbbinhood]

I thought the manual recommends 20-50?!
Yeah, I kept tightening the bolts near cylinder 5/6, which didn't work, then I used sealant which worked for a while then started giving away. There's definitely excess blow-by pressures under rocker cover(if the not the crank).
I think, this time I will find out the cause, once for all.

60352

This is what my manual says, hope it's right otherwise I've been putting the wrong oil in my girl the last 20k kms haha. But yeah, recommends 5w-30 or 10w-30.

[mudnut]

That is for a fresh engine
though. Mine has 280000ks
on it.

[dom14]

60352

This is what my manual says, hope it's right otherwise I've been putting the wrong oil in my girl the last 20k kms haha. But yeah, recommends 5w-30 or 10w-30.

Yeah, if you follow it, for the temp range we experience( between 0 and 40), 20-50 is the oil.
But, I reckon 10-30, 15-40, etc can help during the winter, if you engine doesn't "burn" it.
I wouldn't wanna put 10-30 during the summer though, but I may experiment with it this coming summer.

[dom14]

That is for a fresh engine
though. Mine has 280000ks
on it.

How does that work?
I thought, the more the engine is worn, the thicker the oil??!!
I am wrong about that?

[dom14]

I like the way the engine sound with 15-40 or 10-30, but when I noticed oil going missing, I started to worry.
But the RACV mechanic said I wasn't putting enough oil to start with.
I thought 5 litres was plenty, 'cos I didn't replace the filter(couldn't get the damn thing off at that time).
And the initial level after filling was good. Showing the oil level at the bottom after a trip indicates oil loss, doesn't it?

[Throbbinhood]

Yeah, if you follow it, for the temp range we experience( between 0 and 40), 20-50 is the oil.
But, I reckon 10-30, 15-40, etc can help during the winter, if you engine doesn't "burn" it.
I wouldn't wanna put 10-30 during the summer though, but I may experiment with it this coming summer.

The petrol one is the one on the right, 0-40c recommends 10w30.

My engine has only done 125k kms, so I'll keep going with that. I'm not burning through any, nor leaking any, and the car runs mint.

[Throbbinhood]

I like the way the engine sound with 15-40 or 10-30, but when I noticed oil going missing, I started to worry.
But the RACV mechanic said I wasn't putting enough oil to start with.
I thought 5 litres was plenty, 'cos I didn't replace the filter(couldn't get the damn thing off at that time).
And the initial level after filling was good. Showing the oil level at the bottom after a trip indicates oil loss, doesn't it?

If the engine was cold both times, and the oil had plenty of time to drain back down to the Sump, and the level is lower it could indicate loss. I'd top it up, go for a drive, and check again after leaving for a few hours.

[mudnut]

How does that work?
I thought, the more the engine is worn, the thicker the oil??!!
I am wrong about that?

That is what I meant to say.
The Haynes manual
states 6.4 litres of engine oil.

[dom14]

The petrol one is the one on the right, 0-40c recommends 10w30.

My engine has only done 125k kms, so I'll keep going with that. I'm not burning through any, nor leaking any, and the car runs mint.

125k for an RB30 GQ is pretty amazing mate. The previous owner must have kept it in the garage most of the time. :)
You were reading the fahrenheit temperature mate. Use the gauge on right side with celsius. 0 degrees starts with around 20W and go upwards.
Gregary's also say 20-50. I reckon if your engine's doing well with 10-30, it should be ok for the winter, but I wouldn't use 10-30 in the summer though.
I would like to use 10-30 for the winter as well, but I don't think my engine's can handle it well.

[dom14]

That is what I meant to say.
The Haynes manual
states 6.4 litres of engine oil.

Yeah, but not sure it's correct though. Even with the filter replaced, I've never had to use anymore than 5 litres when I use 20-50.
I lost oil with 15-40, but I reckon it was burning it.
6.4 may be true for a dry engine.

[Throbbinhood]

125k for an RB30 GQ is pretty amazing mate. The previous owner must have kept it in the garage most of the time. :)
You were reading the fahrenheit temperature mate. Use the gauge on right side with celsius. 0 degrees starts with around 20W and go upwards.
Gregary's also say 20-50. I reckon if your engine's doing well with 10-30, it should be ok for the winter, but I wouldn't use 10-30 in the summer though.
I would like to use 10-30 for the winter as well, but I don't my engine's can handle it well.

Yeah, was an old fellar that owned it from new until he passed. He only ever went to the shops and back. I picked it up with 110k for under 3g, never been off road.

Sorry mate, you are wrong though. Look at the picture I uploaded on page 3. The Fahrenheit temp goes to over 100. For Celsius, 10w30 is suitable from -18c to 38c. It doesn't reference any thicker oil for the petrol motor, only the diesel.

Also, my oil and filter changes usually use about 6L.

[mudnut]

I let the oil drain
for ages at each service.
I also jack one side of
the Old Trol up to drain
as much as
possible from the sump.

[dom14]

Yeah, was an old fellar that owned it from new until he passed. He only ever went to the shops and back. I picked it up with 110k for under 3g, never been off road.

Sorry mate, you are wrong though. Look at the picture I uploaded on page 3. The Fahrenheit temp goes to over 100. For Celsius, 10w30 is suitable from -18c to 38c. It doesn't reference any thicker oil for the petrol motor, only the diesel.

Also, my oil and filter changes usually use about 6L.

Yeah, you just have to read what's not in that chart. -18 to +38 celcius for 10-30.
'cos the temperatures in Melbourne can go even further than that, and never -18, 10-30 isn't the ideal oil, but of course you can use it ,especially your RB30
with it's low kms. This Haynes chart is not complete. I think Gregory's and the factory manual has more accurate charts.
I also don't agree with the 6.4 litre capacity as well, 'cos I've never needed that much oil. 5.5 may be, but if I put 6.4, it's usually too much, or more than enough.
Yes, 10-30 is ok for your car with that kms and if it doesn't lose any oil, but I wouldn't even with your car, if I take it up north and central Oz during the summer.
For my one, it's not ideal though(from experience as well).
I'll try 10-30 this time though, and see how it goes.

[Throbbinhood]

It can be hard to find the right oil for the kms. Given the issues that you are chasing though, the thicker oil could be masking an issue somewhere, that may become more apparent with a thinner oil. That said, I'd love to see the other charts, as well as hear from others with these motors. More than happy to be proven wrong if it benefits my engine at the end of the day.

Never taken less than 6L for oil and filter though.. I do warm it up first, and let it drain for 30-60 minutes.

[dom14]

It can be hard to find the right oil for the kms. Given the issues that you are chasing though, the thicker oil could be masking an issue somewhere, that may become more apparent with a thinner oil. That said, I'd love to see the other charts, as well as hear from others with these motors. More than happy to be proven wrong if it benefits my engine at the end of the day.

Never taken less than 6L for oil and filter though.. I do warm it up first, and let it drain for 30-60 minutes.

Yeah, that explains 'cos you put 10-30 & perhaps fills in easier than 20-50., the lowest viscosity you can buy without spending a lot of money. 20-50 is the cheapest, 'cos in Australia, it sells a lot, 'cos it's the most suitable for the climate here.
Have you heard the thing they say about really worn out engines using diesel oil, 'cos it's the thickest?
My experience makes sense. thinner oil like 10-30 cranks better, but burns quicker, 'cos it's low viscosity, it gets through the rings and burns lot quicker.
In theory, both 10-30 and 5-40 are suppose to be the same viscosity in a given temperature, say 15 celsius or so, but in reality they are not.

You are right to use 10-30 in your engine in Melbourne(for the most part), but will be wrong if you use it when you're in Coober Pedy during the summer, when the temperature hits 50 celsius. So, for the most part, you are using the right oil.
You're pretty lucky to find a low km RB30 on petrol(no LPG). So, keep it that way and convert to EFI-turbo etc when you are ready. :)

[Throbbinhood]

Haha no ac in my rig, I'll stick to the cooler climates ;)

[dom14]

I let the oil drain
for ages at each service.
I also jack one side of
the Old Trol up to drain
as much as
possible from the sump.

I think you just explained the reason I don't need 6.4 litres. I don't drain it any more than five-ten minutes.
I just park flat and drain the oil as quickly as possible